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Hiro · **10-14-2014, 05:46 PM**

(10-14-2014, 05:00 PM)Telluride Wrote: After reading this thread, I am seriously attempted to repurpose my Arcanist alt's story to make him a weapons designer, and start tracking down all the most potent blacksmiths, carpenters and mages in the three main cities, hoping to recruit them into a team to make a weapon big enough to take either Bahamut or a Garlean air fortress down with one shot.

It would be MASSIVELY canonical for Final Fantasy as a whole, since pretty much every "universe" of the franchise has a story around finding a way to take down the gargantuan Beast/Construct/Meteor/Fortress. The writers insist that a small team of heroes is always better, and too much of FF goes into showing how people who make Giant Guns are foolish and stupid, but that is a very Japanese perspective. While that perspective permeates a lot of anime, too, to be honest, not all of us are Japanese. Let's be honest - consider Star Wars. If the Rebellion could have kicked the Empire out of the Death Star and taken over the thing, instead of just blowing it up, you can bet your Calamari Traps they would have.

I would argue that the "Big Gun" vs "little guy" fantasy is hardly a Japanese sentiment or romanticized by them more less than most fantasy genres. "Doomsday" device is a pretty standard thing and pits a very obvious uphill battle scenario and often a quantifiable time line for assured destruction. I mean look at The Hobbit, a small group triumphs where an army was annihilated. We also have an instance in game where a FATE sets up a scenario which implies a single piece of equipment will be useful and turn the tide of battle for the chain...

Roswyn · **10-14-2014, 05:49 PM**

(10-14-2014, 05:30 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Also, the fact that Lominsa's entire navy is trained to use Muskets as part of their arsenal suggests a very large stock of weaponry, making it highly probable for a character to get their hands on some or maybe to smuggle firearms illegally. =o Possibilities!

Your post and recent rp I've done has me thinking about firearm forensics now. Surely, what muskets are available in Eorzea can't be crafted by just anyone unlike swords/armour. The majority currently in circulation would probably be military grade and this alone would make such weapons very easy to track or trace.

...For some reason, I'm imagining Uldan style firearms, should they ever be crafted, as having a much more wild west feel to them while Limsian firearms have that french revolution feel. :3

Faye · **10-14-2014, 05:50 PM**

(10-14-2014, 03:06 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Merlwyb's got flintlock (I think?) pistols.

Under FC crests, in with the rest of the class icons, there's a pair of crossed pistols.

Same logo appears in the MRD guild in Limsa on a sign board.

Gunblades exist but seem to be Garlemald tech.

Not sure why I keep page breaking every line.

oh god can't stop help

Always looked like flintlocks to me, too.Â That being said!Â I always assumed the firearms in XIV were likely on par with real life weapons from around the 1700's and 1800's.

Cade · **10-14-2014, 06:27 PM**

(10-14-2014, 03:24 PM)Tiergan Wrote: I remember there actually being a quest in 1.0 where you got see your character take a pistol and shoot at a practice target. Â Wasn't there a musketeer guild back then too? Â The Knights of the Barracuda? Â My memories are super fuzzy about it.

Yep, musketeer was meant to be a job class, But it never came about. I clearly recall a npc shooting jellyfish with a flintlock pistol in a cutscene from 1.0

Kellach Woods · **10-14-2014, 06:29 PM**

Y'know, I keep thinking that Otto should always carry an Apache Revolver around. If there's one guy in Eorzea with the chops to craft that, it's him.

Jana · **10-15-2014, 02:06 AM**

(10-14-2014, 04:15 PM)OttoVann Wrote: They killed the shit out of Natalie though didnt they?

Show Content

I actually asked about this in the lore question collection thread for Fan Fest. Fingers crossed!

Hiro · **10-15-2014, 02:53 PM**

Just putting this out there,

While like pentrating force or technological differences in terms of various cartridge types, percussion pistols (specifically dueling pistols) could be as leathal as a .45 ACP (M1911 Colt's, a semi automatic pistol fires these). Coupling the fact that it's just sheer compact trauma from a lead ball, getting shot is no joke, nt even something you would find easy to deflect or block with a sword/weapon as... ludicrous as the concept would be in general.

OttoVann · **10-15-2014, 03:22 PM**

(10-15-2014, 02:53 PM)Hiro Wrote: Just putting this out there,

While like pentrating force or technological differences in terms of various cartridge types, percussion pistols (specifically dueling pistols) could be as leathal as a .45 ACP (M1911 Colt's, a semi automatic pistol fires these). Coupling the fact that it's just sheer compact trauma from a lead ball, getting shot is no joke, nt even something you would find easy to deflect or block with a sword/weapon as... ludicrous as the concept would be in general.

Apparently guns in eorzea shoot projectiles with less energy than subsonic .22 shorts and the armor / aether that /everyone/ uses all the time deflects them with ease.

Makes me think theres no point in carrying a gun then.

Jariana · **10-15-2014, 03:38 PM**

(10-15-2014, 02:53 PM)Hiro Wrote: Just putting this out there,

While like pentrating force or technological differences in terms of various cartridge types, percussion pistols (specifically dueling pistols) could be as leathal as a .45 ACP (M1911 Colt's, a semi automatic pistol fires these). Coupling the fact that it's just sheer compact trauma from a lead ball, getting shot is no joke, nt even something you would find easy to deflect or block with a sword/weapon as... ludicrous as the concept would be in general.

While historically this is very very true, and is one of the primary reasons that even early guns rather quickly made heavy late Middle Ages armor obsolete, I'm not certain if plays out in the game itself. Â It seems that guns are an area in the game where the writers have swapped out the 'Laws of Physics' with the 'Rule of Cool'.

Case in point is the final test in the Armorer's questline. Â If guns are as lethal as they are in the real world, Merlwyb's method of testing a pair of chain armors is certifiably insane. Â Regardless of any mystical properties of the cobalt the haubergeons are made of, the sheer concussive force of blasting a pair of soldiers at close range like that would have likely caused more trauma than just one of them being 'slightly' wounded.

Of course there are a slew of possible explanations for this, each that doesn't necessarily keep firearms from being much different from their real world counterparts (cobalt really is that strong, Roegadyn can simply take more punishment than humans can, some aetheric combination of the shards the armor was crafted with makes them deflect bullets, Merlwyb is secretly a terrible shot and only hit one of them, etc.)Â

Regardless, it makes for a very entertaining scene and tells a fun story. Â Which is the important part of all of this.

EDIT: And of course Otto beat me to it... Smile

OttoVann · **10-15-2014, 03:43 PM**

(10-15-2014, 03:38 PM)Jariana Wrote:
(10-15-2014, 02:53 PM)Hiro Wrote: Just putting this out there,

While like pentrating force or technological differences in terms of various cartridge types, percussion pistols (specifically dueling pistols) could be as leathal as a .45 ACP (M1911 Colt's, a semi automatic pistol fires these). Coupling the fact that it's just sheer compact trauma from a lead ball, getting shot is no joke, nt even something you would find easy to deflect or block with a sword/weapon as... ludicrous as the concept would be in general.

While historically this is very very true, and is one of the primary reasons that even early guns rather quickly made heavy late Middle Ages armor obsolete, I'm not certain if plays out in the game itself. Â It seems that guns are an area in the game where the writers have swapped out the 'Laws of Physics' with the 'Rule of Cool'.

Case in point is the final test in the Armorer's questline. Â If guns are as lethal as they are in the real world, Merlwyb's method of testing a pair of chain armors is certifiably insane. Â Regardless of any mystical properties of the cobalt the haubergeons are made of, the sheer concussive force of blasting a pair of soldiers at close range like that would have likely caused more trauma than just one of them being 'slightly' wounded.

Of course there are a slew of possible explanations for this, each that doesn't necessarily keep firearms from being much different from their real world counterparts (cobalt really is that strong, Roegadyn can simply take more punishment than humans can, some aetheric combination of the shards the armor was crafted with makes them deflect bullets, Merlwyb is secretly a terrible shot and only hit one of them, etc.)Â

Regardless, it makes for a very entertaining scene and tells a fun story. Â Which is the important part of all of this.

EDIT: And of course Otto beat me to it...

Keep in mind that she was shooting chain and not plate. Plate stands no chance against bullets with any sort of 'actual' and 'realistic' force. Itll punch a hole through it and thats that.

Chain, like kevlar in a way, will bend/flex/absorb more energy before 'breaking'. I can...almost see how people in Highquality Cobalt chain with proper layers of padding underneath (like worn in real life) MIGHT not die from a musket ball to be honest, and they MIGHT be spared the bullet piercing the chain and padding.

Im skeptical though of people just shrugging bullets off in this game however I am no lore master.

Aldotsk · **10-15-2014, 04:57 PM**

(10-14-2014, 05:30 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Muskets are not as rare as people are implying.

Muskets are standard issue to ALL Lominsan Armada personnel. In the 1.0 MSQ "Treasures of the Main" the Player Character attempts to join the Knights of the Barricuda (the name given to Lominsan Armada sailors) and the first trial is to demonstrate your skill with a musket. Unrelated, but because of your unorthodox style of holding the gun (see the screenshot someone posted earlier in this thread) you are actually relieved of the musket and told you could not join the Barricuda because your style was exactly that of a disgraced Barricuda captain from the Commodore's past.

That said there appear to be two types of musket. A pistol sized shown in cutscenes, and a long rifle style visualized hanging in the Coral Tower, which by the way, is STILL the Musketeer's Guild. The sign is still there in 2.0.

While I don't recall any details, it's likely Lominsan Muskets use firesand to fire, similar to Lominsa's cannons. So yes, gunpowder and muskets and stuff are all canon. (budumpsssh puns) Also, the fact that Lominsa's entire navy is trained to use Muskets as part of their arsenal suggests a very large stock of weaponry, making it highly probable for a character to get their hands on some or maybe to smuggle firearms illegally. =o Possibilities!

All of these would have made better sense like what you've described here if Yoshi-P originally planned on releasing Musketeers from the start since they were mentioned from 1.0 after all ;_;

#youliedtousYoshi-P

FreelanceWizard · **10-15-2014, 05:05 PM**

(10-15-2014, 03:43 PM)OttoVann Wrote: Im skeptical though of people just shrugging bullets off in this game however I am no lore master.

Well, we can take bullets, explosions, and cermet drill punches from magitek weaponry, so... Smile

Ultimately, it comes down to who you RP with and where the Realism/Anime dial setting falls with that group. In a group that's more on the FF6/7/8 or Exalted end of the dial, guns are nothing special, aetherically-enhanced moves can parry bullets, and magical healing can patch up even a horrific wound. In a group that's more towards FFT/12 or L5R on the dial, guns are pretty damned dangerous, trying to parry a bullet is a great way to end up expiring messily, and even a "flesh wound" can be ultimately fatal.

Hiro · **10-15-2014, 05:32 PM**

(10-15-2014, 03:38 PM)Jariana Wrote:
(10-15-2014, 02:53 PM)Hiro Wrote: Just putting this out there,

While like pentrating force or technological differences in terms of various cartridge types, percussion pistols (specifically dueling pistols) could be as leathal as a .45 ACP (M1911 Colt's, a semi automatic pistol fires these). Coupling the fact that it's just sheer compact trauma from a lead ball, getting shot is no joke, nt even something you would find easy to deflect or block with a sword/weapon as... ludicrous as the concept would be in general.

While historically this is very very true, and is one of the primary reasons that even early guns rather quickly made heavy late Middle Ages armor obsolete, I'm not certain if plays out in the game itself. Â It seems that guns are an area in the game where the writers have swapped out the 'Laws of Physics' with the 'Rule of Cool'.

Case in point is the final test in the Armorer's questline. Â If guns are as lethal as they are in the real world, Merlwyb's method of testing a pair of chain armors is certifiably insane. Â Regardless of any mystical properties of the cobalt the haubergeons are made of, the sheer concussive force of blasting a pair of soldiers at close range like that would have likely caused more trauma than just one of them being 'slightly' wounded.

Of course there are a slew of possible explanations for this, each that doesn't necessarily keep firearms from being much different from their real world counterparts (cobalt really is that strong, Roegadyn can simply take more punishment than humans can, some aetheric combination of the shards the armor was crafted with makes them deflect bullets, Merlwyb is secretly a terrible shot and only hit one of them, etc.)Â

Regardless, it makes for a very entertaining scene and tells a fun story. Â Which is the important part of all of this.

EDIT: And of course Otto beat me to it...

This is also why Merlwybs test is a... exaggerated but not a terribly bad test for "quality"... That said, it is correct that the trauma from the force of impact would be harsh, quality chainmail could lessen a blow better than a bullet proof vest, modern technology changes this, however if the armors used for her test did survive and the soldiers only experienced the blunt force, they'd be quite bruised but alive depending on the power of her pistols and range.

Armor experienced a varying degree of technical advancements as projectiles advanced in warfare. The Japanese combination of chain and "loose" plate toward the end was effective even against crossbows and prior to metal cartridges. Armor that can deflect bullets is a very real and possible thing, but they're not something to shrug off that easily even then.

Chika Ito · **10-15-2014, 05:38 PM**

Even the Admiral has guns Smile

Â That is all from me! Everyone has summed up everything basically.

Sounsyy · **10-15-2014, 05:46 PM**

(10-15-2014, 04:57 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: All of these would have made better sense like what you've described here if Yoshi-P originally planned on releasing Musketeers from the start since they were mentioned from 1.0 after all ;_;

#youliedtousYoshi-P

Eh, blame Tanaka. He was the one who put in Musketeer Guild and Lore at launch. I think Yoshi-P was busy trying to salvage the game and make needed changes to story/gameplay. To be fair, the Arcanists' Guild was also apart of 1.0 and there were canon arcanists in the game as well. The fact that they're adding thief Rogue before Musketeer when there's already an actual Musketeer Guild in game is a little annoying, but... you know....

#blameTanaka #blameYoshi-P #blametheUSgovernment #qiqirnsbehindeverything!

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Firearms and Eorzea

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes