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Aaron · **12-21-2014, 02:37 PM**

Dem Au Ra women can get the sweet loving of a thousand suns from meÂ

Uh, what were we talking about?Â

I bet Yugiri is hawt.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 03:00 PM**

I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.

Flickering Ember · **12-21-2014, 03:25 PM**

(12-21-2014, 01:05 PM)Oscare Wrote: Sexual dimorphism is very common place in reptilians/reptilian-like creatures. I'm honestly not bothered by the fact that the males are 'larger' than the females because in nature, that tends to be the case anyway. Yes, it's a sex-appeal thing. Male lizards are larger than female lizards. While female snakes (anacondas, for example) are considerably larger than male snakes -- because it's a sex-appeal for the opposite sex.

... I shamelessly agree with Steel Wolf, by the way. Because god those horns are good.

Edit: I am kind of weirded by the lack of muscle mass on the females though. Usually muscle mass is equivalent -- males just have a more profound one. That did make me double-take, but it's not too bad once you get over it.

The problem of sexual dimorphism in fiction isn't that it shouldn't exist. It does. The problem is that it is over exaggerated. Yes, there is a size difference between male and female in any given species but that difference is generally overblown. It would be like if you had a species of bear where the male was huge and towering, but the female in the species looked adolescent. Most of the time, I can't tell the difference in gender in animals. This is because what animal they are should be more obvious than what gender they are. If you were to ask me what gender a snake was I would say "Hell if I know, it just looks like a snake to me."

Yes, I know we are talking about a human race here. However, I don't really consider humans as being any different from other animals in this regard. Gender is a social construct and in general humanity seems to focus much more on how the genders/sexes are different than similar. If you throw out the social construct of gender, men and women actually look really similar to each other. Though, it might be difficult to see that when society shames someone for having physical traits that are associated with one gender. (Examples include body hair/muscles on women and men with long head hair)

All of this to say one thing: Female Au Ra look like children next to the males.

Kellach Woods · **12-21-2014, 03:29 PM**

(12-21-2014, 03:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.

It being foreshadowed only makes it even more disappointing.

Flickering Ember · **12-21-2014, 03:40 PM**

(12-21-2014, 03:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.

I don't think anyone was expecting female Au Ra to be like roegadyn women. If anything, I would say people weren't expecting male Au Ra to be so much taller and more muscular than their female counterparts. Indeed, we knew more what a female Au Ra would look like than a male one. If male Au Ra were lithe and petite like the females were, then no one would be bringing up sexual dimorphism. Instead, male Au Ra are tall and muscular, the opposite of the females. The reason why the female gender is so much more focused in discussion is because of its negative implications.

Also, I think people who wanted the females to be bulkier are thinking more of female highlanders than female roegadyns. At the very least, considering the men look pretty muscular, I think people would have at least liked it if the females looked toned/physically fit.

Aya · **12-21-2014, 03:49 PM**

It certainly isn't the case that the male Au Ra are meant to be unattractive, and the females attractive, I don't think that anyone was suggesting that!Â It boils down to "beastly" being a potentially positive trait for male attractiveness, while its (beyond a tiny touch) generally considered unattractive on females.Â So, they design a somewhat beastly male, and a female with a tail and tiny horns slapped on.Â Its not quite as ridiculous as Amani from TERA, but its in the same vein.

That isn't to say that I blame hte developers for it, they are just giving people what they want, in the end, but I was reflecting on the comment before mine, and really that kind of dimorphism doesn't just not score points with me, it makes me roll my eyes.Â Now, I know, Aya eye-rolls are kind of the end of the world and all, but I don't think its that big of a deal :-]

Aaaand, just to comment on the reptile dimorphism thing.Â Reptiles do tend to have some amount of size dimorphism (or quite large in, say, crocodiles), they are almost impossible to tell apart via appearance as there are no secondary sexual characteristics.Â For that matter, there are no primary sexual characteristics since the sexes share the same external genitals.Â

But, of course, the Au Ra aren't reptilian, the females have breasts!Â They're as much dragon-people, as Miqo'te are cat-people, which is not to say much at all, just enough to suggest the idea, but no more.

I'm also just going to add that I like my Dragons as classical monsters. That, is, as representations of the evil and darkness that exists out there in the world. Not mindless (in fact, their intelligence and craftiness is part of the terror they generate), but as intractably opposed to the well being of people. FF XIV has certainly represented Dragons in this vein, and that's one of the things I like about the world. Au Ra, I suspect, will change that. Oh well Smile

Naunet · **12-21-2014, 03:52 PM**

(12-21-2014, 03:29 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.
It being foreshadowed only makes it even more disappointing.

Pretty much this. That SE's laziness was predictable doesn't disqualify dissatisfaction.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 04:08 PM**

(12-21-2014, 03:52 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:29 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.
It being foreshadowed only makes it even more disappointing.

Pretty much this. That SE's laziness was predictable doesn't disqualify dissatisfaction.

How does something not suiting your personal tastes = SE being lazy?

Tiergan · **12-21-2014, 04:19 PM**

(12-21-2014, 04:08 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:52 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:29 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 03:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I don't understand how anyone who has paid even an ounce of attention to the storyline could have been at all surprised by the size/body type of the Au Ra females. Yugiri has been in the game since, what, 2.1 or 2.2? We all knew she was going to be the new race, so it wasn't like it was a big surprise when it was announced. The only speculation was whether she had ears or horns (which we now know were horns), and just by looking at her you could easily see that her size is roughly between the average Miqo'te Female and the average Midlander Female, making them rather petite and slender in frame.

Anyone who expected Roegadyn Females with horns needs to get their head out of their ass and pay more attention, at BEST we would have just got both genders being tiny. I'd much rather have it this way.
It being foreshadowed only makes it even more disappointing.

Pretty much this. That SE's laziness was predictable doesn't disqualify dissatisfaction.
How does something not suiting your personal tastes = SE being lazy?

The size difference doesn't personally bother me, but let's be honest here: I don't even see why Yugiri went out of her way to cover up her face at all when she basically is a midlander woman with horns and a tail.

The design is lazy because unlike the male characters which have large horns, more obvious scales, and an overall silhouette that can easily distinguish them from the other races - the female characters straight up look like midlander hyur women with the tiniest possible horns and tail. In some cases, I couldn't distinguish between the horns and their hair. They're that small.

It would have been nicer if the females had more going for them to link them to the males. It doesn't have to be size. It could have been horns more similar to what the guys have or just more visible horns instead of ones that practically vanish into the hair. (I haven't played TERA ever, but female Castanics have pretty damn visible horns. It would have been nice to have that.) It could have also been a face shape or facial features that distinguish them more from the midlander hyur.

And yes, they could have been a little more toned - not so much where Yugiri would no longer make sense, but she was covering up so much of her body that SE could have easily gotten away with making the women a lot more toned and muscular under there to match the guys instead of making them like midders and miqo'te.

Naunet · **12-21-2014, 04:23 PM**

Yup, what Tiergan said.

More facial ridges, maybe a different bone structure (brow/nose/cheek/jaw), more apparent horns, a more powerful musculature instead of looking like children...

It's lazy because SE just took a midlander and slapped some (small) horns on them, as per the image I linked a page back. There was almost no thought put into the design of female Au Ra.

Edgar · **12-21-2014, 04:25 PM**

Oh, Naunet.

You would hate Touhou.

Pictured above: A vicious, drunken Oni.

Kellach Woods · **12-21-2014, 04:28 PM**

Fuck Touhou.

Edgar · **12-21-2014, 04:32 PM**

(12-21-2014, 04:28 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Fuck Touhou.

Now see, I was just poking fun at Naunet, but that statement, there, can only be interpreted as offensive.

Tiergan · **12-21-2014, 04:33 PM**

My thing is - concept artists are always thinking about silhouette. It's important because you want people to be able to look at a character at a glance and instantly know what they are. A lot of times, some concept artists will even start concepting creatures by drawing out a silhouette first and then designing on top of it.

If we made silhouettes of all the different races, most of them would be pretty easily distinguishable ...except maybe miqo'te and midlanders if we cropped off the cat ears and tails. They tried to make up for it by giving them noticeably larger, cat-like eyes, a slightly different facial structure from midders - (or a very different facial structure if you have the older male miqo'te nunh face). If you put a hyur midder and a miqo'te side by side, you can visibly see the differences in their faces.

What we've seen of female Au Ra doesn't really do that. The silhouette just reads "female midlander with horns and tail". Their faces just have a few scales tacked on, but overall look like midlanders or like they're trying to squeeze the features in somewhere between midlander and miqo'te.

At the end of the day, I'm not really going to lose any sleep over it - but it's very hard to argue that the same level of work in making the male Au Ra unique went into the females too.

Edgar · **12-21-2014, 04:44 PM**

(12-21-2014, 04:33 PM)Tiergan Wrote: My thing is - concept artists are always thinking about silhouette. Â It's important because you want people to be able to look at a character at a glance and instantly know what they are. Â A lot of times, some concept artists will even start concepting creatures by drawing out a silhouette first and then designing on top of it.

If we made silhouettes of all the different races, most of them would be pretty easily distinguishable ...except maybe miqo'te and midlanders if we cropped off the cat ears and tails. Â They tried to make up for it by giving them noticeably larger, cat-like eyes, a slightly different facial structure from midders - (or a very different facial structure if you have the older male miqo'te nunh face). Â If you put a hyur midder and a miqo'te side by side, you can visibly see the differences in their faces.

What we've seen of female Au Ra doesn't really do that. The silhouette just reads "female midlander with horns and tail". Â Their faces just have a few scales tacked on, but overall look like midlanders or like they're trying to squeeze the features in somewhere between midlander and miqo'te.

At the end of the day, I'm not really going to lose any sleep over it - but it's very hard to argue that the same level of work in making the male Au Ra unique went into the females too.

I find this to be a much more valid argument than "Fuck SE because they're lazy in general."

I find that I won't be losing any sleep, either. Just another change to FFXIV that for some reason, despite its utter insignificance in comparison to every other change, gets the most attention for the stupidest reasons. Â Au Ra will not be changing gameplay in the slightest, people. It's the 3 new classes they just announced, new flying mounts, and new mechanics centered around flying that will.

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Thoughts on the Au Ra?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes