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Kage · **01-21-2015, 01:39 PM**

I'm starting to confuse myself.

#lightsSounsyySignal

Pretty much topic title though.

What are the aspects of both? How do they differ?

Warren Castille · **01-21-2015, 01:45 PM**

At least in 1.0, the Echo referred to the status of those who could see glimpses of the past/present/future. At the time, it also bequeathed omnispeech to those with it; They could understand any language spoken, regardless of them hearing it before or not.

The Blessing seems to just refer to Hydaelyn's stop-tempering-block-Ultima gift.

I'm not positive the tempering is even related to that. Minor spoilers, but we're able to speak with a certain shady person even after story-related incidents happen, but someone else isn't.

I can't remember if they elaborate on why you're temper-free in 1.0., and even then it's possible it got retconned since there.

Kage · **01-21-2015, 01:49 PM**

Yeaaahhh that's why I'm confused.

I believe the Echo gives you the ability for the glimpses as well as the ability to understand.

So we as players still have the echo.

I am under the impression that the blessing protects us from tempering and not the Echo... but I've gotten all confuseds so I'd like others to chime in.

also a random final fantasy wiki says Echo is what grants people the temper block

Warren Castille · **01-21-2015, 01:58 PM**

Hm. Edit date on that page? In 1.0 there was only the Echo. I'm not sure why they bothered to split it.

Nebbs · **01-21-2015, 01:59 PM**

I get echo in some raids, that still works for me I hope.

Kage · **01-21-2015, 02:01 PM**

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Echo

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Echo?action=history
Last date was Dec 24.

Honestly I take this as a grain of salt but someone used this to tell me that Echo protects people from tempering and now I'm all sorts of confused.

Zyrusticae · **01-21-2015, 02:03 PM**

I was always under the impression that the Echo was just an ability granted to us by Hydaelyn's Blessing.

But then we lose the Blessing and still are able to ascertain Ascian speech... which just throws the whole damn thing out of whack.

MIND YOU, there is always the possibility that the Echo is still an ability granted by the Blessing but is not necessarily something that can be 'lost' once granted. Also keep in mind that the Ascians themselves also possess the Echo, meaning that it is not something exclusive to Hydaelyn (with Zodiark being Hydaelyn's polar opposite, it makes sense that they'd have some overlap).

All this being said, it's pretty obvious to me that the Echo and the Blessing are intentionally vague and ambiguous mysteries and that this is something they're going to elaborate on down the line. All we know right now is that the Blessing is one thing, and we lose it, and the Echo is another thing and we still have it. Somehow.

Edit: It could be that the Blessing itself is only a shorthand for the powerful, protective aether that Hydaelyn provides us in times of dire need, and the Echo is separate from that (but still something granted to us by The Mother Crystal). I'll have to go back into the main story quests but I believe Minfilia took our possessing the Echo as a sign that Hydaelyn speaks to us.

Warren Castille · **01-21-2015, 02:03 PM**

I wonder if SE's even got it figured out. I'm content to waffle in the darkness (that would be a great band name) until the game spells it out for me.

Edgar · **01-21-2015, 02:20 PM**

(01-21-2015, 02:03 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I was always under the impression that the Echo was just an ability granted to us by Hydaelyn's Blessing.

But then we lose the Blessing and still are able to ascertain Ascian speech... which just throws the whole damn thing out of whack.

MIND YOU, there is always the possibility that the Echo is still an ability granted by the Blessing but is not necessarily something that can be 'lost' once granted. Also keep in mind that the Ascians themselves also possess the Echo, meaning that it is not something exclusive to Hydaelyn (with Zodiark being Hydaelyn's polar opposite, it makes sense that they'd have some overlap).

All this being said, it's pretty obvious to me that the Echo and the Blessing are intentionally vague and ambiguous mysteries and that this is something they're going to elaborate on down the line. All we know right now is that the Blessing is one thing, and we lose it, and the Echo is another thing and we still have it. Somehow.

Edit: It could be that the Blessing itself is only a shorthand for the powerful, protective aether that Hydaelyn provides us in times of dire need, and the Echo is separate from that (but still something granted to us by The Mother Crystal). I'll have to go back into the main story quests but I believe Minfilia took our possessing the Echo as a sign that Hydaelyn speaks to us.

There's also the potential that the Ascians possess the ability to control their invisibility to those without the Echo, allowing others to see them when they deem it fit to do so.

Recoil · **01-21-2015, 02:22 PM**

I just assumed the Echo was a additional gift rolled into Hyd's blessing.

I wonder what's gonna happen after Midgardsormr...

Though i've always been big on being thrust into hopeless situations.

Kage · **01-21-2015, 02:29 PM**

According to user-written http://gamerescape.com/2015/01/19/the-lo...rn-part-1/

Quote:The adventurer is the approached by Yâ€™shtola, Thancred, or Yda and Papalymo, who had been following their exploits since realizing that they possessed both the Echo and the will to help Eorzeans in need. Offering them the means to discover the meaning behind their mysterious visions, the Archon extends to them an invitation to join the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, an organization wholly dedicated to safeguarding the future of Eorzea. Minfilia, the organizationâ€™s leader, welcomes the adventurer with open arms, offering access to the full extent of the Scionâ€™s resources in exchange for any assistance that can be provided, especially against the threat of the primals, aetherial demigods summoned by the realmâ€™s beast tribes. Those possessing the Echo are invaluable allies against them, she explains, as, somehow, a primalâ€™s ability to bend the minds of men to their will is useless against those with the blessing.

Kismet · **01-21-2015, 07:46 PM**

My understanding was that the Blessing of Light was essentially just magical plot armor against super dark baddies. The Echo is separate. (Yes, an eloquent explanation. I know. Tongue

)

Naunet · **01-21-2015, 09:57 PM**

(01-21-2015, 02:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I'm content to waffle in the darkness

What level of darkness would you wish?

Sounsyy · **01-21-2015, 11:49 PM**

BIG DAMN SPOILERS, SIR!
You've been warned.

Well, as I've said in a couple threads before when this subject gets brought up: to simply equate The Echo = Hydaelyn's Blessing does not work. Period. It can't. Because the Ascians have it, the Beastmen have it, people who have come and died and were not saved by Hydaelyn have had it, the Ascians can BESTOW it upon people. So the Echo is so much more than "Hydaelyn's Gift."

Is it possible that Hydaelyn gifted us the Echo way back in 1.0? Yes, it is possible the reason we have the Echo in the first place is because of Hydaelyn, but this does not make it exclusively Her gift. Nor should we think of the Echo and the Blessing as synonymous any longer.

The only people who seem to truly understand the Echo and what exactly it is, are the Ascians... and maybe Midgardsormr cuz he just stripped us naked hardcore.

So what exactly does "Hydaelyn's Blessing" aka "The Blessing of Light" entail? Well, so far, it appears to only be protection. Now, asides from being physical protection against things mere mortals could not withstand (Tempering, Ultima, Ascian attacks...) it also bears with it a Covenant. This is vaguely alluded to by Midgardsormr when he attempts to murder you, Hydaelyn says no, and Midgardsormr obeys as per the Covernant. We don't know what this Covenant is exactly, but we can assume that it pertains to an ancient pact between the Terrestrial Gods of Hydaelyn back during Creation. I don't know for certain, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that their immortality is on the line. I mean, what else could you use as a bargaining chip against a 10,000 year-old god?

Okay, so if Midgardsormr killing the Player Character would break the Covenant, we can infer that no Chosen of Hydaelyn can harm another Chosen of Hydaelyn. Who doesn't seem to give a crap about the Covenant? Primals and Ascians.

I'm rambling cuz Coil + Lore again. Merp.

Anyways, Echo, we don't know what it is, we don't know where it comes from. It could come from Hydaelyn, but it can't be exclusive to Hydaelyn, therefor it cannot be "Hydaelyn's Blessing" because Hydaelyn's Blessing was stripped from us by Midgardsormr, yet our Echo appears to remain intact.

However, our only evidence of this fact is that we can still understand Ascian language, a gift afforded to us by our specific Echo. As per the 1.0 MSQ, the ability to understand all language is NOT a common gift. In fact, its an ability very few Echo-users seem to have.

1.0 Minfilia could not understand all languages. 2.0 Minfilia can, apparently, understand Ascian. Whoopsies or retcon? Who knows. See for yourself:

1.0 MSQ Together We Stand

Also Path of the Twelve/1.0 Echo lore for folks who are interested:
1.0 MSQ Fade to White

__________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: Fernehalwes dropped this lore bomb today. Asides from the very interesting details of the Dravanian language there's also some small things tucked inside the post I wanted to pull out as they relate to this topic.

Quote:When the Echo â€œtranslatesâ€ for someone, it is a joint effort between the listenerâ€™s mind and Hydaelynâ€™s gift. The gift is providing the knowledge, while the listenerâ€™s mind is using its previously compiled linguistic background to compile the data into something more familiar.

So this pretty much confirms that the Echo was granted to us by Hydaelyn. Ding! This is now a fact. However, the fact also remains that the Echo is not exclusive or synonymous to Hydaelyn's Gift as those not bound by Hydaelyn's Covenant also seem to have the power of the Echo (and far greater knowledge of it).

Quote:And, because of this, the only way a non-dragon would be able to understand a dragon is if the dragon chose to speak in the non-dragonâ€™s language, or the non-dragon was blessed with the power of the Echo.

This makes it sound like an Echo retcon is now officially in play. 2.0 Echo seems to grant everyone the power to understand any language, or at least, that's what this post seems to infer to me. This is intrinsically different than 1.0 Echo, which the only common gift between Echo users was the ability to enter the mind of another. See above cutscene for Minfilia being unable to understand Sylphic, despite her having the Echo.

Kage · **01-22-2015, 01:24 PM**

Thank you Sounsyy! That's sorta along the lines of what I was thinking but people kept saying ECHO IS WHAT PROTECTS YOU~

But I haven't found anything that says echo = temper protection.

People said Minfilia said it during the cutscene of The Scions of the Seventh Dawn, but it doesn't.

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Differences between the Echo and Hydaelyn's Blessing?

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