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Cato · **01-30-2015, 09:28 AM**

(01-30-2015, 09:21 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: So, uh, my ex is flabbergasted about how anyone could not have cleared T9 by now.

And I'm just sitting here like "uh... I haven't?"

Grumble grumble.

I've yet to clear T5. I know what to do, I've simply been unlucky with duty finder groups and finding a raid community to join is difficult because they usually shun EU players even when my game time is fairly flexible.

Kahn'a · **01-30-2015, 10:03 AM**

(01-30-2015, 09:28 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(01-30-2015, 09:21 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: So, uh, my ex is flabbergasted about how anyone could not have cleared T9 by now.

And I'm just sitting here like "uh... I haven't?"

Grumble grumble.

I've yet to clear T5. I know what to do, I've simply been unlucky with duty finder groups and finding a raid community to join is difficult because they usually shun EU players even when my game time is fairly flexible.

Hit me up in game, I'd love to help! And at reasonable hours for a change. Big Grin

Kage · **01-30-2015, 11:32 AM**

T5 is so fucking stupid now. You just need to be able to actually do divebombs.

Who gives a fuck about whether or not there are stacks on the big snake? Stacks on you? Just burn them down. All of them. There's like a 1min+ lull now for those of us who are "on top of" gearing their jobs (aka 110+). (That and you need to know how to play your actual job for dps)

Twisters will still wreck. If someone doesn't stun the dread you'll still get deaths too.

But stupid stupid stupid gap for when Twintania takes her time in dropping down from the sky. We've killed the big snake before the other 2 appear at the end of the 2nd set of divebombs.

Jana · **01-30-2015, 01:33 PM**

My FC's always running our new 50s through T1-8, iLv permitting, so just ask your FC for help doing the same. Honestly, all one really needs to get "caught up" on everything through the newest set of endgame content (FCoB in this case) is the help of FC members who are willing to teach you.

Ja'ren A'lenthin · **01-30-2015, 01:35 PM**

(01-29-2015, 02:29 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I just think people feel like everyone else needs to act on their (perceived) level - or higher if they're feeling lazy and want to be carried.

Also, I'm noticing this more and more now that I'm doing more CT tanking on Chachan but... is there something about being MT? I usually tend to be the one getting aggro and holding it due to my STR accessories and my overall high iLevel, but the other Alliance tanks will still try to yank it off me... even as they also decry that "there's no prize for being MT."

I was doing Labyrinth... two days ago? with an entire party of the Alliance being myself and my FC mates. And there was this tank that WOULD NOT stop trying to pry the boss off me. This led to positioning problems as he yanked enmity off me while I was trying to get the boss into place (Bone Dragon and last boss)... and the OBNOXIOUS chain beeping noise as the boss de-aggroed and then RE-aggroed onto me.

Let the little midget in plate take the boss. I'll hold onto it, it's okay. Go grab the adds that are PUNCHING YOUR HEALER TO DEATH (Magic Jars fight, no joke. I went to try and save the healer since my group wasn't "phased" to do it and basically got there just in time to watch the healer crumple).

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this just an ePeen thing for some tanks?

Pretty sure it's just ePeen - that's the only reasonable explanation there is for this type of behavior, and I admittedly enjoy it when other tanks do this. Thanks to certain friends teaching me the SO FUN dps rotation for WAR...I let them have it for maybe a minute then rip it off and keep it. Provoke be damned, good luck taking hate when I just crit for 1.2k twice in a row right after you voked. :3

On a different topic - doing WoD..that first trash pull? Tanks. You tiny little babies in your tin-can suits: STOP TANKING THOSE DAMN GARM/CHIMERA MOBS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ALMOST-ARENA-WIDE FIRE AOE. DAMN.

Seriously getting hella annoyed at this shit. They literally tank the things in that tiny little safe spot at the center of the room so now the melee can't hit the things without dropping dead due to the fire tick + ram's voice.

>_____>

Melkire · **01-30-2015, 02:12 PM**

(01-29-2015, 10:49 PM)Kage Wrote: Actually iirc other data centers tank the bone dragon on a far end and the skeletons were pulled to the opposite, the big aoe can be stunned or silenced i forgot. So it's easily dealt with. Iirc this was one of the differences between our data center and say JP data center strats.

That's still incredibly inefficient, given that meleeÂ DPS now have to cross twice the distance to assist in downing the Platinals again - which is a pain in the ass for any melee not a DRG, curse their three movement skills - and they have to do so twice. Not to mention that the distance encourages them to sit on Bone Dragon until it's dead, which means you're now relying on ranged DPS to down the Platinals faster than melee can down Bone Dragon. And then you get Platinals stacking for movement speed buff... *shudders*

The AoE I was referring to was Platinals reaching the Dragon which results in instant unavoidable raid-wide damage. Not much of a concern at higher iLvls, but still.

The up-until-recently common strategy on Aether (triangle method? or is that what it's called on Garuda EX?) designates a side of the arena to each alliance, which very easily and intuitively divides responsibility among tanks and DPS (the Platinals closest to you are yours), shares the responsibility of preventing raidwide Platinal damage between alliances (the rows of platforms between A and B and between B and C), minimizes the travel distance for melee DPS since the Dragon is tanked in the middle....

It's intuitive, which makes it ridiculously simple for PUGs to understand. Compare this other method (JP method?) which is hectic and chaotic and I DON'T LIKE CHANGE, OKAY, WHY DO WE HAVE TO FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN WHEN THE NEW SOLUTION ISN'T ANY BETTER?

(01-30-2015, 01:35 PM)Ja Wrote: On a different topic - doing WoD..that first trash pull? Tanks. You tiny little babies in your tin-can suits: STOP TANKING THOSE DAMN GARM/CHIMERA MOBS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ALMOST-ARENA-WIDE FIRE AOE. DAMN.

Seriously getting hella annoyed at this shit. They literally tank the things in that tiny little safe spot at the center of the room so now the melee can't hit the things without dropping dead due to the fire tick + ram's voice.

>_____>

OMFG this. I haven't tanked WoD yet on account of wanting the MNK set first, but holy shit, tanks, please do your jobs. Drag those motherf***ers to the outside and face them away from the alliances, please. You'd think that after 100 iLvls worth of gameplay, PUG tanks would know how to do their damned jobs.

Gegenji · **01-30-2015, 02:17 PM**

(01-30-2015, 02:12 PM)Melkire Wrote: The up-until-recently common strategy on Aether (triangle method? or is that what it's called on Garuda EX?) designates a side of the arena to each alliance, which very easily and intuitively divides responsibility among tanks and DPS (the Platinals closest to you are yours), shares the responsibility of preventing raidwide Platinal damage between alliances (the rows of platforms between A and B and between B and C), minimizes the travel distance for melee DPS since the Dragon is tanked in the middle....

It's intuitive, which makes it ridiculously simple for PUGs to understand. Compare this other method (JP method?) which is hectic and chaotic and I DON'T LIKE CHANGE, OKAY, WHY DO WE HAVE TO FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN WHEN THE NEW SOLUTION ISN'T ANY BETTER?

(01-30-2015, 01:35 PM)Ja Wrote: On a different topic - doing WoD..that first trash pull? Tanks. You tiny little babies in your tin-can suits: STOP TANKING THOSE DAMN GARM/CHIMERA MOBS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ALMOST-ARENA-WIDE FIRE AOE. DAMN.

Seriously getting hella annoyed at this shit. They literally tank the things in that tiny little safe spot at the center of the room so now the melee can't hit the things without dropping dead due to the fire tick + ram's voice.

>_____>

OMFG this. I haven't tanked WoD yet on account of wanting the MNK set first, but holy shit, tanks, please do your jobs. Drag those motherf***ers to the outside and face them away from the alliances, please. You'd think that after 100 iLvls worth of gameplay, PUG tanks would know how to do their damned jobs.

Of course, the issue is that people are going to still do what they feel like they want to do. Whether it's grab ALL THE PLATINALS, fight for aggro over the bosses, or not bother with figuring out positioning besides "it's still looking at me."

Makes me real frustrated when there's either a.) multiple problem folks, which you can't chain kick because of "cooldown timers" or b.) problems in the other parties of the Alliance, since there's nothing you can do about them. You could have a whole team of trolls in Alliance B and be stuck with them unless you bail on the raid yourself.

Especially when you get the idiots who just spam the teleporters. I don't think they're just being lazy at that point, they're actively being obnoxious by spamming the chat and pop up messages with "HEY, THIS THING ISN'T TURNED ON YET." It's a more recent thing for me (fortunately, unfortunately?) but I really don't like it.

Melkire · **01-30-2015, 02:28 PM**

(01-30-2015, 02:17 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Especially when you get the idiots who just spam the teleporters. I don't think they're just being lazy at that point, they're actively being obnoxious by spamming the chat and pop up messages with "HEY, THIS THING ISN'T TURNED ON YET." It's a more recent thing for me (fortunately, unfortunately?) but I really don't like it.

That's beenÂ there since day 1 of LotA, and is usually worth a laugh. "Ha, someone hit the teleporter again, chat spam incoming."

I can understand how it can be aggravating for those who rely on chat, though.
VoIP makes everything better. :>

Kage · **01-30-2015, 02:32 PM**

You actually have a longer time for most of the platinals to hit the Bone Dragon. Having almost a diameter of a circle is more than having just its radius. JP method usually has A alliance do x, B alliance do y, and C alliance do z. Just like in King Behemoth part you have tanks calling it out, it's usually already understood A does xa, B does yb, C does zc.

It's not just Japanese data centers. I believe primal data centers also did it too.

Sucks for melee but oh well ;p Other melee on the data center doesn't seem to have an issue.

Sounsyy · **01-30-2015, 02:34 PM**

(01-30-2015, 02:12 PM)Melkire Wrote: It's intuitive, which makes it ridiculously simple for PUGs to understand. Compare this other method (JP method?) which is hectic and chaotic and I DON'T LIKE CHANGE, OKAY, WHY DO WE HAVE TO FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN WHEN THE NEW SOLUTION ISN'T ANY BETTER?

So I actually like to call this the Hyperion Facepull Method (you have us and Excalibur to thank for perpetuating this method on the NA servers) wherein we send in the least experienced, geared, but most gung-ho tank to run in and pull the dragon to the back while the other tanks who have the item level to match their dick size fight over skeles in the back and usually end up stacking them all on top of each other in the center platform. This strategy also includes MT getting hit by hysteria debuff and getting the entire raid murdered.

The other method you were talking about with the triangle and each party has their own responsibilities is actually the JP method, or at least it's the method preferred on the JP server Masamune.

Warren Castille · **01-30-2015, 02:38 PM**

The first time I did CT, we did the "every group takes an angle" strategy and I warred it out over skeletons and took the care to place them correctly.

The second time I did CT was about ten days ago, and I tanked the dragon right in the center because, as they say, fuck the police.

Kage · **01-30-2015, 02:41 PM**

Aether data center tanks the dragon in the center. Other tanks take the platinals to the end platform near where their alliance starts. The frontal cone is huge but it can be silence.

... if people would actually fucking silence it.

I was wrong in mentioning the JP data centers. They usually do something different. I think B usually MTs. But the North Dragon against the wall is definitely a Primal Data center thing according to various threads in the official forums.

When I do CT now for my weekly carboncoat though I've seen that people don't give a fuck about platinals and will just dps and heal right on through. -_-

Jariana · **01-30-2015, 02:51 PM**

(01-30-2015, 02:28 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(01-30-2015, 02:17 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Especially when you get the idiots who just spam the teleporters. I don't think they're just being lazy at that point, they're actively being obnoxious by spamming the chat and pop up messages with "HEY, THIS THING ISN'T TURNED ON YET." It's a more recent thing for me (fortunately, unfortunately?) but I really don't like it.

That's beenÂ there since day 1 of LotA, and is usually worth a laugh. "Ha, someone hit the teleporter again, chat spam incoming."

I can understand how it can be aggravating for those who rely on chat, though.
VoIP makes everything better. :>

My favorite variation on this is the one I had in a WoD run last night. Someone died in the middle of the first trash pull, decided to res back at the entrance, and then started spamming the dumb thing for the entirety of the fight.

Of course this was after the self-appointed MT decided to try to tank all three of the mobs in that stupid middle "safe spot", got hit with all the breath attacks, and stood in the fire. He dropped impressively fast, though part of me really wonders if the healers just decided to let him go. Me and the other OT were able to salvage it, but it kinda set the tone for the entire run. Frustrated

Of course, we're not going to mention the little incident where I may have accidentally tanked Ms. Cloudy at the end with Sword Oath on. Nope, not going to mention that at all... Blush

Melkire · **01-30-2015, 02:51 PM**

...now I'm lost.

Played on Adamantoise for two months. Then transferred to Gilgamesh for a month. Then played on Balmung for nine.

In that year, I've never once seen the method I've been venting over (the one Kage's describing above) until this past week. It's always been the triangle (which Sounsyy says isÂ a JP method? Way to go, Masamune). Dragon has always been tanked in the middle, or thereabouts. Alliance A has always taken the row of platforms to the left, B has always taken middle/entrance, and C has always taken the right. There's never been a need for the full diameter of the arena between the Dragon and the Platinals because the Platinals usually die by the time they go from the third platform in the row to the second platform ANYWAY - this is what happens when you can have your entire team, including melee (dear ranged, weÂ deal reliably consistentÂ damage faster than you do),Â contributing.

I've only ever seen the... snrrrrk... "Hyperion Facepull Method" in obvious trolling attempts. I've never seen this new "method"Â paraded about as a strategy actually worth considering until I had that run last week.

Dear Warren: please continue fucking the police, because apparently there's been a change in management and the new guys don't know wtf they're doing.

EDIT:

Kage Wrote: Aether data center tanks the dragon in the center. Other tanks take the platinals to the end platform near where their alliance starts. The frontal cone is huge but it can be silence.

... if people would actually fucking silence it.

I was wrong in mentioning the JP data centers. They usually do something different. I think B usually MTs. But the North Dragon against the wall is definitely a Primal Data center thing according to various threads in the official forums.

Yeah, that lines up more with what I'm familiar with. Aether takes it middle. Wouldn't know about Primal.

And the cone doesn't really need to be silenced anyway. No one other than the MT should be over there, and the MT should be close enough to the base of the cone to sidestep it.

Warren Castille · **01-30-2015, 02:58 PM**

(01-30-2015, 02:51 PM)Jariana Wrote: Of course, we're not going to mention the little incident where I may have accidentally tanked Ms. Cloudy at the end with Sword Oath on. Nope, not going to mention that at all...

If your healers are up for it and you can keep hate, there's not a thing wrong with this. I do it intentionally because her damage is so easy to manage. Even better when you swap VIT jewelry for STR jewelry and lose 2k HP on the exchange, too!

Melkire Wrote:Dear Warren: please continue fucking the police, because apparently there's been a change in management and the new guys don't know wtf they're doing.

Consider them fucked!

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