RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Dasair · **04-23-2015, 12:12 PM**

Only slightly off the current topic of 'popularity vs. new people getting RP', since this isn't really about people getting RP.

But in terms of who might be considered 'popular', I think it boils down not so much to the actual numbers themselves (post count, rep, etc.), but how recognizable someone is on the RPC specifically.

I was trying to figure out who it was I considered 'popular' here, and why the reasons for that were, and.. it wasn't so much that I'd seen any of those people in game. It wasn't because they impacted me negatively (in a number of cases I find them really neat, and would certainly like to try RPing with them at a time I'm not crazy busy IRL, though other cases less so, so that wasn't really a factor), or because of the amount of RP they get, because I don't even know how much RP they get, given never seeing them IG... but because I recognized them from a lot of different threads.

They are people who post frequently that people reply to, who can shift discussions and have others react, and who I remember seeing in enough other places on the forums to get an idea of their 'personality' from what they say. That's in no means to claim that I really know any of them. But I've made some connections about them based on their posts in various places that may or may not be the case. I feel like I have a sense of at least one part of their personality. And some people I considered 'popular' had much lower post counts than others, it was just a matter of personal recognition, actual activity, and probably chance; the topics I look at happen to have these people posting in them. I'm sure if I looked at different topics, my perception would be completely different.

That said, I figure those who are considered 'popular' vary from person to person. I also figure it isn't bad either, they are the ones who seem to have their hands in the community the most. That, or make a number of memorable posts, and then continue on to make more.

So for those worrying about it... I mean, I'm sure this can be taken both ways. It could be taken positively, that you've really made a difference, or that people pay attention to what you're saying for one reason or another, but that could also be disconcerting if you don't like that kind of attention. I suppose it's mostly just something about you, for whatever reason, has made you stand out and be recognized.

Just in hopes to clear up the 'I don't want to be popular' / 'am I popular?' thing. At least that's how it works for me.

--

And I suppose a bit on the 'getting rp vs. not' bit, it might be the perception that, because these folks are recognizable, and seem to get any number of reactions from other people, that obviously they must be just as 'successful' in game. .... When it really isn't like that at all. Or at least, not necessarily like that. I think there's a distinct difference in many cases in terms of the RPC and in terms of IG-RPing, and while some of the same people might be RPing a good amount, sometimes people just assume that all of them are, when it really is unlikely to be that way at all.

The sheer distinction that I can identify people I personally consider subjectively 'popular' on the RPC vs. having not once seen them in-game, and have no idea how much they RP, attests to this.

OttoVann · **04-23-2015, 12:17 PM**

(04-23-2015, 04:19 AM)Faye Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 04:11 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Im willing to be popular so that others may rest.

Otto #1, vote for Otto, President of the RPC 2015

You know, I'd need a First Lady.

Gegenji · **04-23-2015, 12:19 PM**

(04-23-2015, 12:17 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 04:19 AM)Faye Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 04:11 AM)OttoVann Wrote: Im willing to be popular so that others may rest.

Otto #1, vote for Otto, President of the RPC 2015

You know, I'd need a First Lady.

Dibs.

Aya · **04-23-2015, 12:20 PM**

Dasair, I think you're entirely correct.Â What people are mis-attributing to popularity is actually just recognizability on the forum.Â The idea that there's some division, some difference between how those who are recognized from the forum find and conduct RP, and those who are new or less recognized, is just plain wrong.Â There's an entire portfolio of myth and projection that gets repeated over and over again about this very topic: my suggestion is just realizing that everyone you interact with in this community is just like you, faces many of the same struggles and has many of the same concerns and desires in terms of finding and enjoying RP.

Askier · **04-23-2015, 12:20 PM**

(04-23-2015, 11:30 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: BUT
I don't think stating someone is popular automatically demonizes them. The idea of being labeled as "Popular" and it being taken as an insult it really strange to me. It reminds me a lot of when I ended up meeting a few rich people in my life, if you pointed out they were rich - they actually got insulted. Don't point it out, don't talk about the fact they have money. Just saying it demonized the fact they were rich in their eyes - even though it was just true. It was just a thing that was. People with status are uncomfortable admitting that status, sure, but it doesn't make it less true (Also most people who have money will immediately argue that they in fact don't have money and/or use the argument of "I worked hard for this!" which rings strikingly familiar).

I don't think there is anything wrong with the label. Let me repeat that: There is nothing wrong with being labeled popular. Nothing. Popular people are going to exist in ANY community. Youtube? Pewdiepie. Imgur? Kylecorn. Something Awful? Lowtax. Little Old Jplop forums I've mentioned before? Starra.

It happens. It's not exclusive to FFXIV RP. Communities form and faces stand out in the crowd from them. This is not bad. If you get labeled as a popular - own it. The community has deemed you one, fighting against it isn't going to change anything. But, also understand what it means.

OOOO! I gonna try to play devil's advocate!Â Though I agree with what you said. Big Grin

Let's see....

What if a popular person does something you don't agree with could happen?

For example, if someone popular role plays over the course of a month or two that they have become immune to tempering by Primals or that Dragons attacked Ul'dah with bombs or something and a bunch of other people role with it( a clique if you will), but a few other role players don't feel it's a valid idea, who is right?Â How does the community handle this? The popular person did work hard to develop said story. Does their opinion supersede the small group since they have more people backing them up because they are popular, and thus we have mob rule; or does the lore back up the little group and the popular guy has to change their character for the smaller group that is voicing their opinion?Â Or do they simply not role play with another, ever?

Don't get me wrong, Reputation and Popularity are great, especially when earned for all the right reasons.Â Example, I think Warren, Zhavi, and Aya are awesome role players but I really only know them by their positive reputations on here. And sure, some people get an infamous reputation. But is it justified for people without a large footprint in the community to be nervous about how much authority one person my be exerting over a said community and if someone is doing that, how do those without as much sway over the public forum combat this occurrence?

Just a fun food for thought. Big Grin

ArmachiA · **04-23-2015, 12:37 PM**

The answer is easy: They're both right.

You're going to find, despite people being popular, if someone decided to change the status quo - regardless of THEIR OWN STATUS - people are going to have opinions. I can use the Poisoning of Ul'dah event as a huge example of this.. Those who were a part of it didn't see it as a big deal and thought it was just for fun, while those on the outside thought it was too much power for one group to have. (For the sake of clarity: I was completely against it)

You notice, despite a lot of people from that group being considered "Popular" people still argued against it. People came in, said they were against or for it and went on their way. There was discussion. There was debate. And it was fine. Debate and Discussion is healthy. Disagreements are par for the course.

At the end of the day though, those in that plotline could have sat down and just decided to ignore the criticisms. That is a perfectly viable option. They, as you know since you were the main contributor, came in and clarified the position. Saying not all the water was poisoned, just a small section and the bad guys were caught before any damage was done. This calmed a lot of the naysayers - though the thread eventually spawned another thread about how much power one group should have (Which was an interesting thread and had a ton of different opinions).

This is a good example. They were called out and they could have very well just rped it in a bubble, but they chose to work with the community instead. Both options were fine, though.

Despite popularity, there is one thing I think we all can agree on - no one is going to agree with anyone 100% of the time, but that makes neither side wrong or right. Opinion is stronger than status in these circles. There's no real power here except the power of the majority. And sometimes, even the majority is against that which the popular people do. The court of public opinion is always stronger than post count and reputation points. Does that mean a group is wrong for trying to say Ul'dah was bombed? Absolutely not. They certainly can say that and they are allowed to RP it. Are other rpers allowed to think they are completely crazy and nothing happened to Ul'dah? YUuuuppp.

The answer is, they are both right. Neither answer is technically wrong. The opinion you have personally is what makes it wrong or right, and that's going to vary regardless of status.

Melkire · **04-23-2015, 12:50 PM**

I'm just going to step in to note that, in the case that ArmachiA is referring to, many of the complaints and much of the debate over one particular aspect of Blood on the Sands (the event had a name, and I'll kindly thank you to use it) came from detractors who were not participating in said event and could have easily ignored and/or disregarded it IC and/or OoC and gone happily on their way.

A public event does not mean that it has to be a canon event for everyone, everywhere. A public event simply means that it is open for everyone to sign up for and participate in should they so choose.

Verad · **04-23-2015, 12:53 PM**

(04-23-2015, 11:50 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I was also called out more than once for being out of touch and I took steps to remedy that by being more open and friendly.

Just like in the real world an online community can change rather abruptly. What worked for some people in the 'early days' might not work for other people in the present day. Sharing advice is great but in some cases it can come across as demeaning.

Could you provide a more concrete example of this as regards how old methods of finding roleplay don't work with a new population? This seems very abstract as it is.

ArmachiA · **04-23-2015, 01:01 PM**

(04-23-2015, 12:50 PM)Melkire Wrote: I'm just going to step in to note that, in the case that ArmachiA is referring to, many of the complaints and much of the debate over one particular aspect of Blood on the Sands (the event had a name, and I'll kindly thank you to use it) came from detractors who were not participating in said event and could have easily ignored and/or disregarded it IC and/or OoC and gone happily on their way.

A public event does not mean that it has to be a canon event for everyone, everywhere. A public event simply means that it is open for everyone to sign up for and participate in should they so choose.

But I don't agree that means people weren't allowed to talk about it and criticize the decisions made because of it. That's a perfectly fine thing to do. Once something goes public, the public is going to have an opinion. Some people think Wuthering Heights is a great book, some think it's trash and a lot of people formed their opinions and didn't even read the book. It's okay to talk about things in a public space! People saying they don't agree with the choices another group has made doesn't mean that group should stop everything they are doing. It's discussion, which is what these forums are for. If that group chooses, they can take the criticisms and strive to alleviate worries OR they can ignore it completely.

BUt talking about it, criticizing it, is not inherently wrong. Even if you aren't a part of it. I didn't write My Humps, but I can't tell you I hate that song. I didn't cook stuffed peppers, but I can tell you I dislike them, especially when it's brought up in a public space. It's what forums are for.

You yourself have criticized Erik's idea for the RP FC meet. Even though you don't have to be a part of it and you could have ignored it completely. It's okay that you do! That's what this is about, this forum thing

Aduu Avagnar · **04-23-2015, 01:11 PM**

I wouldn't say I was popular, nor do I truly interact much with the people who may be considered popular.

I bump into some of them at the Grindstone, or may have a scene here and there, but in all honesty, I'm just a person whose out and about and doesn't really do much?

in fact, probably the most interaction I've had with a 'popular' person are my tells to Warren every now and then when we have a bit of a laugh.....

but I will say Cliques happen, and will continue to happen, because of basic human thought process.

We like to make tribes. Us vs Them mentality. who supports a football team? thats a Clique. Who is proud of their city or their Nationality? thats a Clique.

stop deamonising them, and remember, as has been said before, they are not bad, and it is only when they are being used to try and manouvere some sort of advantage of 'I'm in this clique therefore I am more important than you' attitude that they become bad. Which is something I've /never/ seen here.

Melkire · **04-23-2015, 01:12 PM**

(04-23-2015, 01:01 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: But I don't agree that means people weren't allowed to talk about it and criticize the decisions made because of it. That's a perfectly fine thing to do. Once something goes public, the public is going to have an opinion. Some people think Wuthering Heights is a great book, some think it's trash and a lot of people formed their opinions and didn't even read the book. It's okay to talk about things in a public space! People saying they don't agree with the choices another group has made doesn't mean that group should stop everything they are doing. It's discussion, which is what these forums are for. If that group chooses, they can take the criticisms and strive to alleviate worries OR they can ignore it completely.

BUt talking about it, criticizing it, is not inherently wrong. Even if you aren't a part of it. I didn't write My Humps, but I can't tell you I hate that song. I didn't cook stuffed peppers, but I can tell you I dislike them, especially when it's brought up in a public space. It's what forums are for.

It crosses a line when the folks responsible for such works start getting undue heat for them, which is what happened and is still happening. That event was so much more than "poisoning Ul'dah" and yet that's all that folks choose to remember it for. I could name so many more plotlines - public, private, or otherwise - that folks have run that are just as if not more objectionable... but you don't see me constantly harping back to those and fixating on their negative points. That would be hurtful and disrespectful, IMO.

To unironically quote Chris Crocker, "leave Britney alone."

EDIT: I chose to constructively critique the presentation of an otherwise sound and great concept for community-building. I haven't brought it up since because I'm aware that folks were hurt by its reception and it would be disrespectful of me to bring it up again.

ArmachiA · **04-23-2015, 01:16 PM**

I'm not even being critical about it, at all. I'm stating what happened here as a forum. I'm not talking about the Blood on the Sands event as a WHOLE, I'm specifically referring to the Poisoning of Ul'dah incident, because it was a good example of what Red Coat Cat was talking about. He asked and there was precedence for my answer, since that EXACT scenario already happened. You noticed I didn't bring it up Willy Nilly it was in reference to a question he asked that I can actually sight an example for since it was seen on this very forum. In no way did I paint it negatively, I even stated it was clarified LATER and people were happy with the clarification though it spawned a different thread all together.

You are reading into something that isn't here.

Zhavi · **04-23-2015, 01:27 PM**

To echo Dasair, to me, it's just about how distinctive people are. If you post something that catches my attention, or post in a way that catches my attention, I'll notice you. And then, when you post, prior experience has taught me that I'll enjoy reading (or, as is sometimes the case, it's something that is provocative in some way, or interesting, or something I can argue with) what you have to say, so I'll read it closely.

People who are distinctive stand out, so people tend to respond directly to them. More and more interaction equals forming connections.

Once those connections are formed -- especially if they're cultivated and the person is actively reaching out -- there's an appearance of someone who is active and surrounded by lots of people and it's happy and magical.

And I think there's a lot to be said about what you do about your reaction to that, and how you temper your reactions and how you observe yourself.

*shrug* After WoW, and a guild I became a leader in, and devoted almost all of my free time to, and burned out really hard on -- I decided I was going to come to FFXIV and be a lone wolf. And that is exactly what I've done. Nearly all of my contacts are ooc-rp; there are very very few who I've told personal stories to, and of those it's because I was actively rping with them and then suddenly stopped because of ooc circumstances (which I later divulged on because of a thread), and I felt I owed them an explanation, because I liked them as people.

I dunno. I'm not a social butterfly. I'm an introvert, and too much social reaction will eventually burn me out. I can be super shy, I'm afraid of rejection -- but to me, you do have to do certain things in certain ways to build (and I use that word very deliberately) what you want to have.

There's utterly no point in me looking at someone who seems to have an effortless time at something and thinking 'why can't it be like that for me?' (especially because what we perceive can so often be dead wrong)

I have to work hard to get what I get. I think most people do.

That's okay.

Celsius · **04-23-2015, 01:57 PM**

Having read through the thread so far to make sure no one has said this yet, I wanted to get this idea out there.

While I don't think popularity and cliques are a bad thing - people have a group of friends they socialize with, who knew!? - they DO have an effect, for sure. Though, truthfully, cliques only get bad when they start policing those around them, but that was said already.

My point, though, stems more from the perceived popularity thing. While I don't hate on those who are seen as popular here since I do respect them for the effort they put in, there is a stigma there that has me shy away from RPing with them. And it's really quite a simple, and in my mind, accurate thing:Â

"Oh, I bet they don't have time for me."

Let's all be honest. It's been said in a number of these threads that people that are involved in RP don't have the time of day to spend RPing with everyone who wants to RP with them. THAT is, in fact, part of the stigma that the "popular" group carries - and anyone who RPs regularly, whether popular or not, and has a group of friends they regularly go to for RP - will tell you that they don't always have time for more people.

I'm not popular on here. Never have been, because I lurk too much, and occasionally enjoy reading the lore threads. That said, I already basically have access to as much RP as I could handle without really making many connections here. Now, this is obviously not about people finding RP, but rather, what popularity brings.

I don't think people who are popular should be on the receiving end of hate from people who can't find RP. But making the the (illogical) jump from "Oh, they probably don't have the time for me" to "They're excluding me!" is probably something that happens more than it ought to.

Quick tl;dr

"Popular" people really don't deserve the hate they receive
"Popularity" lends to a "You probably don't have time for little ol' me" types of mentality
Time available really is a legitimate constraint that people should be conscious of.

Thanks guys ^_^
Just food for thought.

Zhavi · **04-23-2015, 02:08 PM**

(04-23-2015, 01:57 PM)Rinslet Wrote: Having read through the thread so far to make sure no one has said this yet, I wanted to get this idea out there.

While I don't think popularity and cliques are a bad thing - people have a group of friends they socialize with, who knew!? - they DO have an effect, for sure. Though, truthfully, cliques only get bad when they start policing those around them, but that was said already.

My point, though, stems more from the perceived popularity thing. While I don't hate on those who are seen as popular here since I do respect them for the effort they put in, there is a stigma there that has me shy away from RPing with them. And it's really quite a simple, and in my mind, accurate thing:Â

"Oh, I bet they don't have time for me."

Let's all be honest. It's been said in a number of these threads that people that are involved in RP don't have the time of day to spend RPing with everyone who wants to RP with them. THAT is, in fact, part of the stigma that the "popular" group carries - and anyone who RPs regularly, whether popular or not, and has a group of friends they regularly go to for RP - will tell you that they don't always have time for more people.

I'm not popular on here. Never have been, because I lurk too much, and occasionally enjoy reading the lore threads. That said, I already basically have access to as much RP as I could handle without really making many connections here. Now, this is obviously not about people finding RP, but rather, what popularity brings.

I don't think people who are popular should be on the receiving end of hate from people who can't find RP. But making the the (illogical) jump from "Oh, they probably don't have the time for me" to "They're excluding me!" is probably something that happens more than it ought to.

Quick tl;dr

"Popular" people really don't deserve the hate they receive

"Popularity" lends to a "You probably don't have time for little ol' me" types of mentality

Time available really is a legitimate constraint that people should be conscious of.

Thanks guys ^_^
Just food for thought.

You have a point, except for one flaw:

Just send a nice, polite, non-pressure request to someone you want to rp with. If you think they are busy, give them an easy out.

"Hey, I really admire you for [insert praise about character/writing/attitude/whatever], and would like to rp with you. However, I think you might be really busy, so I totally understand if you don't have time! If you don't, absolutely no pressure and maybe I'll catch up with you in a month or so to see if you have more time. If you do and wouldn't mind rping with me, I'd like to see when would be most convenient for the both of us. Have a good one!"

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (6): « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next »

Cliques, Popularity, and Positivity

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes