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Edgar · **06-19-2015, 11:30 PM**

(06-19-2015, 11:24 PM)Griffith! Wrote: I just miss the old turn-based ATB systems. And while no, it may not hurt the game in any way, it doesn't necessarily improve it either. But ignore me, I'm just a crotchety old man (spurious;Â I'm 27) who doesn't like change.

"Meh, back in MY DAY, we didn' 'ave yer fancy-schmancy ATB bars. We'd perform all er actions in one dern turn, and no amount o' Hastes 'ould make it go any faster. An' if'n yer party members fell over, yer curaja 'ould still be used on ther god-derned corpse! It were dark times, fellar, and WE LOVED E'RRY SECOND, meh...!"

Griffith! · **06-19-2015, 11:33 PM**

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of people mentioning being attached to FFVII as their first FF game. Mine was the original, on my uncle's NES. I do not have nostalgia for that one.

Kellach Woods · **06-19-2015, 11:54 PM**

(06-19-2015, 11:24 PM)Caspar Wrote: It became cool to hate 7 over the years, but personally, I wasn't impressed by the story in the older, supposedly superior games like 6. It's not my favorite RPG ever, but I still think it was a solid game, for being very primitive, poorly translated and essentially having some parts incomplete.

Btw, Sephiroth is a Kefka with depth. Feel free to impale me now.

If it wasn't for the Woosley translation Kefka would be extremely forgettable. That team salvaged that villain from the shadows of utter obscurity to such an extent you can still hear old school fans yelling out son of a submariner and all the other quotes that are simply not present in the Japanese script.

Sephiroth had an extremely shoddy translation that ensured he had no personality whatsoever other than BROODING. Which would have been fine if it wasn't for the fact that you already had two party members doing the exact same fucking thing.

Then again FF villains have never really been well-developed when I think about it. Most of their motivations are boiled down to "they're evil, kill 'em".

Griffith! · **06-20-2015, 12:05 AM**

Yeah, it's always basically. "I'm evil, so I'll TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Keheheheheh!"

Which is pretty thin, really. At least Kefka and Sephiroth had the whole driven insane thing to keep them from being completely flat characters.

Jonexe · **06-20-2015, 03:43 AM**

(06-19-2015, 11:24 PM)Caspar Wrote: Btw, Sephiroth is a Kefka with depth. Feel free to impale me now.

You can like and dislike whatever you want; this is just flat not true.

Kefka is a psychopath through and through. He's deranged from the very first meeting with him. Additionally, when he wants to obtain the power of the Goddess he, well, does so. And then destroys the known world and pulls it down into a ruinous cycle that would have eventually killed all life on the planet unless he was stopped.

Sephiroth is much more collected, even at his worst moments. He succeed at summon Meteor...... and that's about it. Oh, he killed the President and Aeris. But we see his decent into madness, we know why he is the way he is. He's a hero that falls once the truth of his existence is finally understood.

They're entirely different characters in every way save the "Kill all humans" aspect of their ultimate plans.

Griffith! · **06-20-2015, 03:52 AM**

(06-20-2015, 03:43 AM)Jonexe Wrote:
(06-19-2015, 11:24 PM)Caspar Wrote: Btw, Sephiroth is a Kefka with depth. Feel free to impale me now.

You can like and dislike whatever you want; this is just flat not true.

Kefka is a psychopath through and through. He's deranged from the very first meeting with him. Additionally, when he wants to obtain the power of the Goddess he, well, does so. And then destroys the known world and pulls it down into a ruinous cycle that would have eventually killed all life on the planet unless he was stopped.

Sephiroth is much more collected, even at his worst moments. He succeed at summon Meteor...... and that's about it. Oh, he killed the President and Aeris. But we see his decent into madness, we know why he is the way he is. He's a hero that falls once the truth of his existence is finally understood.

They're entirely different characters in every way save the "Kill all humans" aspect of their ultimate plans.

Really, the only similarity between the two is the whole experimental super soldier thing.

Zyrusticae · **06-20-2015, 09:38 PM**

Man, everyone's talking about other games in the series while I'm just sitting here pondering how in the world they're going to remake Supernova:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

Qadan · **06-20-2015, 09:46 PM**

One thing I learned at the end of 7 is that Sephiroth really hated the solar system. Enough to destroy it about 5 times over.Â

I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that they'll be changing the combat system. I wouldn't mind something similar to 13 as long as they got rid of the auto-play stuff, since if you remove that it's essentially a turn based system but with your characters *actually* moving around the battlefield.

Gegenji · **06-21-2015, 12:06 AM**

(06-20-2015, 09:38 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Man, everyone's talking about other games in the series while I'm just sitting here pondering how in the world they're going to remake Supernova:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTc9sLmOR0A

Probably won't show Pluto, since it's not a planet anymore.

Blue · **06-21-2015, 12:46 AM**

As a big FFVII fan (there is a lot of sentimental value to the game for me. It's the game that made me learn English (see whole story of how it did here) ), I am very nervous to know that it will be SE and not Squaresoft to handle this. They will likely change the battle system to something closer to the recent chapters (remove turns, make action-game based battle system with AI handling the "other party members), and remove things that they either consider unappealing to the new generation (grinding) or too heavy to handle for the new engines (take a look at World Maps for example. It's not a mystery that SE hates world maps, they haven't been making one since FFXII unless you want to count that pathetic thing that Dissidia's world map was).

It'd be really a dream if they simply took FFVII and just gave it big graphics, but the realistic me knows that won't be true. I just pray that the remake will be built keeping the old-days fan in mind and not just the new generation.

Caspar · **06-21-2015, 05:46 AM**

(06-20-2015, 03:43 AM)Jonexe Wrote:
(06-19-2015, 11:24 PM)Caspar Wrote: Btw, Sephiroth is a Kefka with depth. Feel free to impale me now.

You can like and dislike whatever you want; this is just flat not true.

Kefka is a psychopath through and through. He's deranged from the very first meeting with him. Additionally, when he wants to obtain the power of the Goddess he, well, does so. And then destroys the known world and pulls it down into a ruinous cycle that would have eventually killed all life on the planet unless he was stopped.

Sephiroth is much more collected, even at his worst moments. He succeed at summon Meteor...... and that's about it. Oh, he killed the President and Aeris. But we see his decent into madness, we know why he is the way he is. He's a hero that falls once the truth of his existence is finally understood.

They're entirely different characters in every way save the "Kill all humans" aspect of their ultimate plans.

Both are mad supersoldiers who have different origins for their insanity; Kefka just reacts to it by behaving like a cartoon villain. Sephiroth is more subtle about it, but he's just as insane and lacking in human compassion as Kefka. They simply took the time to develop his character. Their approach was different, but at their core the characters are really similar. Mad super soldiers with god complexes and a psychotic lack of understanding of other human beings. Whether one was successful or not says nothing about the character save the plot mandated whether their plan worked or didn't. Had FF7 been written as such, Sephiroth's meteor would have had similar results to Kefka's destruction of the world. Even his final boss forms look similar.

If not for it being en-vogue to hate Sephiroth and FF7 for years due to the game's unwholesome popularity, I think a lot of people would actually prefer Sephiroth to Kefka, as he has tangible reasons for going mad, and that is one of the few things outside of external elements like design and behavior that really separates them. Kefka was really popular for years, too, and this is one of the reasons I never understood why. It felt like I was getting the same, only less, with him. (It doesn't help that the laughing mad psychopath archetype was done better in Suikoden II anyway, which I played before 6 despite it being a later game.)

Though I'm sort of venting, since it's something I always found weirdly off-putting. Like how people called Cloud emo, when if anything his lack of emotion and slow reclaiming of them was more defining. Hell he spent a good chunk of the game catatonic; if anything they should take issue with that! Even years later, people just didn't *get* FF7, both the fans, and the haters, and the unneeded proliferation of spin off titles only worsened this. Not that it was a particularly deep game or anything, but the wonky translation really made it more obtuse than it really was. I wonder if this remake will contribute to the problem or make things better.

But yeah, I hope the new translation does more to give character to the portrayal of the original story. They've been really dry and boring in a lot of the crossovers they've done featuring FF7 characters, particularly in groaners like KHII. I think to a certain degree, the bad translation has influenced people's impressions of the characters too. So many of Sephiroth's scenes are just him talking at Cloud until he loses his shit, and I felt that totally didn't work in the original game.

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Griffith! · **06-21-2015, 08:34 AM**

You know what just occurred to me? Minigames. How much different is the Golden Saucer going to be? Are we going to have the same handful of minigames or are they going to give us a whole new batch? I hope snowboarding returns. I wasted way too much time playing that crap.

TheLastCandle · **06-21-2015, 09:27 AM**

Luca Blight was a good villain, but "better" is subjective. Neither of them are shining examples of well-realized character development -- and neither is Sephiroth -- but in Suikoden II, Blight was a flat out murderous psychopath from beginning to end. In FF6, Kefka goes from nearly a comic relief side villain to god of destruction.

And honestly, I never heard anyone call Cloud "emo" until Advent Children, in which he actually fits the description. In fact, most of the complaints I heard about FF8 when it released was that Squall was way too moody/"emo" compared to the previous game's main character.

Griffith! · **06-21-2015, 09:37 AM**

(06-21-2015, 09:27 AM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Luca Blight was a good villain, but "better" is subjective. Neither of them are shining examples of well-realized character development -- and neither is Sephiroth -- but in Suikoden II, Blight was a flat out murderous psychopath from beginning to end. In FF6, Kefka goes from nearly a comic relief side villain to god of destruction.

And honestly, I never heard anyone call Cloud "emo" until Advent Children, in which he actually fits the description. In fact, most of the complaints I heard about FF8 when it released was that Squall was way too moody/"emo" compared to the previous game's main character.

Y'know, I never really got the whole "Cloud is emo" thing either. I mean, he was a dork. Seriously, re-read that dialogue, and tell me Cloud wasn't just a bad Soldier cosplayer. He's kind of cartoonish early on, with his whole "I'm a cool mercenary, I don't care about anything" attitude.

And Luca was the subject of an awesome boss-fight, but he wasn't that great a character. He was basically just one of those blandly evil-for-evil's-sake bad guys. The real villain in that game was so much better it's not even funny.

AquiziTC · **06-21-2015, 10:22 AM**

I'm throwing my hat in with the "Cloud wasn't emo" crowd.

Pre-reveal, Cloud was a dork. He was trying to be the anti-hero. Part of it was his childhood dream, part of it was Zack's influence, and part of it was just trying to look cool. The thing was he wasn't really anti-hero material, so he just came off as looking kinda dorky, which made it kinda humorous. I think most of us players remember that.

Now of course later we see how fucked up that kid really is, and why that weird kinda mishmash of personality is IN that head of his. He has his pre-crisis, which culminates in him just trying to do SOMETHING so he doesn't lose his f'ing mind. Which he does anyway, poor guy.

Post-recovery, he's a man who has had a new identity, and a new TRUTH about existence thrust onto him. He also has all the memories about what he's done, and what is happening now to the world basically because of him. He's understandably timid and nervous and cautious! He doesn't like making the big decisions anymore, and when the party asks him to lead, what does he come up with?

"Let's mosey."

I think Cloud is just a victim of Flanderization, primarily due to Advent Children. And even that can make sense. The despair from "I thought we saved the world, but looks like the Planet is telling us to go fuck ourselves anyway." It's like.. all that work and death and ruin for NOTHING. I'd be a little emo, too.

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FINAL FANTASY 7 REMAKE

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes