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Melkire · **07-08-2015, 11:48 PM**

(07-08-2015, 10:57 PM)Edgar Wrote: I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

You paid for Heavensward, which is 3.x content a.k.a. 3.0 and everything that follows. Similar to how folks had to purchase ARR to enjoy 2.x a.k.a. 2.0 and onward.

I for one am pretty damned pleased with what we've gotten so far, and am looking forward to future patches. Only complaint here is glamor disparity between DoW and DoM. Healers and casters got screwed for choices again.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-09-2015, 12:02 AM**

(07-08-2015, 10:57 PM)Edgar Wrote: I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

Alexander has been out longer than 24 hours. SE also had said repeatedly it wasn't launching on 3.0. The exact same way that The Binding Coil of Bahamut did not launch when 2.0 launched. It came a few weeks after.

Edgar · **07-09-2015, 12:39 AM**

A Realm Reborn/Heavensward did not advertise their game's content as having a portion that would beÂ "added at a later date", though. Even the AAA industry has the courtesy to advertise its DLC before it screws us with it.Â

They said, this is in your game, please look forward to it.

Hell, even the fucking benchmarkÂ showed us the content present in the game, the AF2 armor for the Dragoon is right there! You can almost taste it!

Did ARR advertise the Rogue class and Ninja job as a selling point? No. It was content they decided to tack on simply to improve the game, and that's commendable, for sure. But if they had advertised it, and it wasn't present at launch, how many people do you know who wouldn't have let out a collective sigh of existential disgust? Just add a "HAH-HAH" sound effect as the content is yoinked out of players' grasps at the last possible second and you're good to go.

Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful for getting the stuff I did and did notÂ expect. But I am furious for not getting the stuff that was promised to me when they said it would be.

When you advertise one thing, and you fail to deliver on those promises, that is called consumer fraud. And that is serious cause for concern. I don't care if they inevitablyÂ do what they promise, but if they say "it's in the game", it better be in the fucking game, or they are lying, plain and simple, black and white, clear as crystal. This is why on-disk DLC is such bullshit.

This is just the start of something ugly, you realize this? In fact, now that I think about it, false promises have been a thing in the game industry for a while, now, haven't they? Want an example?

Peter fucking Molyneux. He's the Fable guy, remember him? The guy who promised to move heaven and earth to make Fable the best player-choice driven game ever? The guy who failed to do any of that and then promised to move heaven and earth to make Fable II the best player-choice driven game ever while calling the previous a load of shit? Then kept this cycle going over and over?

[Image: molyjam-2.jpg]

And he didn't just do it with Fable. He raised expectations with his project, Godus, as well. And he failed.

He has been BSing his consumers with false promises for years, and it is that kind of behavior I just don't fucking tolerate in an industry where we have tragedy all the goddamn time (Just look at Arkham Knight's PC port and tell me that wasn't a train wreck). So imagine my surprise and inevitable disgust when I see the crippling birth pangs of repeat behavior in the development process for an MMO by one of my favorite developers of all time.

So far, the only distinction between the practices there and with this game is that promises are actually delivered on, but with technicalities. "Oh, you're going to have to wait a bit, I'm sorry!" Guh.

It's not as bad as it could be, yet, but why get their hands dirty to begin with? Just stop it, guys, there's no need. If it has to be added at a later date, surprise us with it after the launch in a later patch, but don't advertise it when the game is going to launch and it's not fucking ready! Then I cannot look forward to it.

/soapbox

Edda · **07-09-2015, 12:45 AM**

(07-08-2015, 10:57 PM)Edgar Wrote: This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

Full Stop.

This is an MMORPG. No good MMO is ever "finished." Arguments like this do not apply to these types of games. You have been given plenty to do in the mean time before they release more content for you to blow your load on. Crystal Tower and FC Housing were huge marketing points for 2.0 and they did not come out until 2.1. Three months later, yes, but you didn't have to pay more for them. Endgame raids typically are released a few weeks later in order to give the average player ample time to be ready for these things - NOT because they are deliberately withholding content because the game is "unfinished." An MMO's main focus is on longevity and player retention rate: releasing everything at once would not only overwhelm most players, but those that manage to burn through it all would quickly lose interest and quit. This is how it always has been, and will be.

If this was Assassin's Creed 54 (or any Ubisoft title, really) or SimCity you might have a compelling argument, but not here.

EDIT:

(07-08-2015, 10:57 PM)Edgar Wrote: A Realm Reborn/Heavensward did not advertise their game's content as having a portion that would beÂ "added at a later date", though. Even the AAA industry has the courtesy to advertise its DLC before it screws us with it.

Yes, they did. They do it all the time. They did it before the game even launched, and they have been doing so since the game's release in the form of Live Letters. Hence the phrase: "Please look forward to it." Just to drive this point home, as I do not feel the need to pick through your entitlement post: Final Fantasy XIV is not, and will not be for a very long time, a finished game.

Coatleque · **07-09-2015, 12:46 AM**

(07-08-2015, 08:47 AM)Melodia Wrote: So someone talk to me.....am I wrong? Is this normal?

This is completely normal. It is the model that MMO's have been using since Everquest. Each expansion is a repeat of the same thing with just a little more story progression. When you break it down though, you're still just grinding levels followed by sets of gear that have +2 more stats than the last set.

Verad · **07-09-2015, 12:46 AM**

If you feel that SE has committed consumer fraud, then this is a legitimate, actionable offense and you should contact the appropriate authorities.

Unless, of course, it's just hyperbole with no leg to stand on.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-09-2015, 12:49 AM**

(07-09-2015, 12:46 AM)Coatleque Wrote:
(07-08-2015, 08:47 AM)Melodia Wrote: So someone talk to me.....am I wrong? Is this normal?

This is completely normal. It is the model that MMO's have been using since Everquest. Each expansion is a repeat of the same thing with just a little more story progression. When you break it down though, you're still just grinding levels followed by sets of gear that have +2 more stats than the last set.

Umm... this is totally wrong.

It's way more than +2, like +20.

Plz stop spreading misinformation.

Edgar · **07-09-2015, 12:53 AM**

(07-09-2015, 12:46 AM)Verad Wrote: If you feel that SE has committed consumer fraud, then this is a legitimate, actionable offense and you should contact the appropriate authorities.

Unless, of course, it's just hyperbole with no leg to stand on.

Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

Also, might I point out the guy roleplaying a dubious salesman of all people is commenting on my stance against this behavior? I just thought that was hilarious.

Verad · **07-09-2015, 12:55 AM**

(07-09-2015, 12:53 AM)Edgar Wrote: Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

Also, might I point out the guy roleplaying a dubious salesman of all people is commenting on my stance against this behavior? I just thought that was hilarious.

Well, I call it a tantrum, but I think we're thinking about different things when we think of "it."

Edit: You know, maybe I'm confused. That does happen at my age. So please, explain this to me.

You paid the appropriate money for the expansion. You will receive the items promised in the expansion with a patch for which you will pay no extra money.

Where is the DLC? What extra money are you giving somebody on the promise that you won't get the AF2 armor otherwise? Do you mean your monthly subscription? Has it been gated behind the online store? Did a stranger wearing a shirt saying "I am Yoshi-P, Really," come to you and tell you this?

Kage · **07-09-2015, 01:02 AM**

(07-09-2015, 12:53 AM)Edgar Wrote: Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

They've mentioned multiple times that a) Law will be granted at 3.0 uncapped. b) Alexander will be dropped approximately 2 weeks after the launch IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO ENJOY THE MAIN STORY QUEST AND TO AVOID PEOPLE MAKING PEOPLE FEEL FORCED INTO SKIPPING CUTSCENES and c) Alexander Savage will be dropped approximately 2 more weeks after story mode along with esoterics which will be on a weekly limit and lock.

From what I gather this is much better than the darklight/myth grind? I wasn't around for 2.0. Law drops into peoples' laps like crazy.

You have far more chance on calling it misleading by addressing the new jobs being locked behind the main story quest. They've never said that Alexander would be available at launch. They have definitely said that it will be released after launch.

Asmodean · **07-09-2015, 01:10 AM**

They did say for about a month or two that you would need to beat all of 2.0 to 2.55 to enter Ishgard at all. They even said the job wore gotten in Ishgard so it was implied you need to get to the 3.0 story to play the new jobs.

V'aleera · **07-09-2015, 02:06 AM**

This reminds me of how all the Wrath of the Lich King boxes advertise the dance studio and flying combat Blizzard never put in the game.Â

It doesn't legally qualify as false advertising though; or at least, the accusation likely wouldn't get far in court. Proving a product's advertising exists in conflict with the parameters of the Lanham Act is already difficult enough without adding in the extremely nebulous nature of MMOs as commercial products.

Tierney Weaver · **07-09-2015, 02:10 AM**

(07-09-2015, 12:53 AM)Edgar Wrote:
(07-09-2015, 12:46 AM)Verad Wrote: If you feel that SE has committed consumer fraud, then this is a legitimate, actionable offense and you should contact the appropriate authorities.

Unless, of course, it's just hyperbole with no leg to stand on.

Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

Also, might I point out the guy roleplaying a dubious salesman of all people is commenting on my stance against this behavior? I just thought that was hilarious.

LMAO. You have a fucking attitude.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavenswar...ry__npc-02

Look at this website. This is what you paid for, and you got all of it. Stop whining and bullshitting SE, because they did a good job. This is an MMO, not Sims 3. They're not going to pack all the content in one patch and unleash it on the community.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-09-2015, 02:26 AM**

No reason to put on your grumpy pants.

Edgar's wrong, no need to lynch him over it.

I just think the release pace is more obvious now, because people can gear/level up faster. When 2.0 dropped it was much harder to get gear/tomes/weapons etc. I wasn't i70 for at least a month, and I played a crapload.

KitKat · **07-09-2015, 02:27 AM**

(07-08-2015, 10:57 PM)Edgar Wrote: I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

If you're going to be technical about it, they were in the expansion. SE just didn't turn them on. And they explicitly said they would not be immediately available, oh I don't know, a hundred times. Is two weeks really that much of a problem? It would have taken you nearly those two weeks just to get the i170 required to enter Alexander anyway. Would it have made much of a difference if they made it available to enter immediately even though it takes nearly 2 weeks to grind up to 60 and then gear out for it? You're acting like a petulant child.

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes