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Oli! · **11-17-2015, 04:36 PM**

I decided to look up Cunt in that dictionary series I mentioned earlier because I'm basically two years old.

On page 230 of theÂ Second Volume, the earliest usage of "Cunt" is cited as 1383. We also get "Cunt-Pensioner," defined as "A male keep ; one who lives by the prostitution of a wife, a mistress, a daughter, or any other female connection,"Â and "Cunt-Struck," defined asÂ "Enamoured of women : who may, in turn, be either COCK-SMITTEN or PRICK-STRUCK"

I might be having too much fun searching for curse words in obscure dictionaries.

I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on the citadel.

Pepe · **11-17-2015, 04:52 PM**

Valence Wrote:I think the issue is less than those words have a place in the setting, and a lot more that people tend to use them on a very gratuitous, over the top, basis.

When you tend to always go for the biggest superlative you can find, it eventually dampen a lot its meaning while creating a sort of linguistic discrepancy between people used to that to the point where some of the most extreme words are used on a hourly basis, and people that are not.

It's exactly like in cinema if you will: if you start only using close-up after close-up, then it loses its meaning pretty fast, especially when you eventually use one in a more justified moment that will just feel drown in the middle of all the other superfluous, over the top ones.Â

In short, your enemy here might be less the lexical language used rather than the context in which it is used.

Beware of the cheese or you will end up pretty fast in a shoddy cheap pulp clichÃ©.

Edit: also, one can also have to take into account the tone used by the setting and storytelling itself, and it's pretty bookish/convoluted english I find. Of course, that certainly doesn't prevent players to make the choice to darken their own setting a lot and go for different tones. And then, different tones clash together and can lead to... well. That.

I'm not sure if you've ever actually spoken to anyone irl.

Paradox · **11-17-2015, 04:57 PM**

Thanks Oli. Now I have to go play mass effect again. Swiving whoreson. >>

In all seriousness though, man's penchant for profanity has been around for a long long time, and I kind of look forward to seeing just what kind of words get invented as time goes on. I want to be that old guy who says 'well back in my day, we used to call it fucking. You kids and your newfangled slang.'

Back on-topic though, the use of certain words being discounted from the game is indeed likely because of the teen rating. I think only Spaceballs got away with that once with Dark Helmet's 'Fuck! Even in the future nothing works!'. Then again, Mel Brooks has always been good at sneaking things out the back door. They use the more archaic words for things like fuck because they actually can. A lot of people are lazy. They won't bother to look up what a lot of the words mean, and more old curses can slide by since they're not under whatever censorship bureau's 'words you absolutely can't say on TV' ratings list. It's just easier to slip them in that way and at the same time give them setting-context. Doesn't mean the other words don't exist. Just means they can't put them in the actual dialogue.

V'aleera · **11-17-2015, 05:00 PM**

Don't have much of an opinion aside from the belief that "fuck" is a little grating and kind of mundane given the copious alternatives given by the game itself. My internal reaction to it when it's used during rp is largely identical to my reaction to someone saying "u wot mate" unironically irl.

It's all pretty trivial though, and not really worth addressing when it happens.

Zezeki · **11-17-2015, 05:03 PM**

I just say what I want when I want.

Oli! · **11-17-2015, 05:04 PM**

I couldn't find any earlier, but now that I can,Â have some more precise dates for "Whore."

The earliest seems to be a rendition of the Old Testament from 1275.

Kage · **11-17-2015, 05:06 PM**

A little off-topic but yeah other movies were able to stay PG-13 with multiple uses of the word Fuck as long as it wasn't "I'm going to get to fuck up a ton of bitches in my bed tonight" and more like "I'm stuck on MARS... FUCK!" (Most of them were just 2-3 uses iirc)

They used other words or even had situations where you can clearly see that the people are using the word fuck but they're saying it in the car and you're looking at the actor through glass windows. That type of thing.

It may be worth a try coming up with a screenshot backed/quest/npc dialogue recorded list of in-game swears but... would make me tired. Someone could have just thought "bloody" was out of place until they saw in-game or a screenshot. Perhaps someone never got to see some other dialogue and thought "that jarred me" Perhaps it's not so jarring and we all just haven't found all them words!

Just not fuck though. Cause. Rating.

(11-17-2015, 05:04 PM)Oli! Wrote: I couldn't find any earlier, but now that I can,Â have some more precise dates for "Whore."

The earliest seems to be a rendition of the Old Testament from 1275.

Well we see whore in game so it is "acceptable" already (whoresons)

I will admit... if someone said "I'm gonna cut ye" or "I'm gonna cap yer arse." I may just go "uh" or use "dude" IC.

LiadansWhisper · **11-17-2015, 05:10 PM**

I generally don't try to police other people's language, because well, they're grown adults (ostensibly) and it's not my place.

If you're talking about cars in-character, though, I'll probably give you the side eye.

*sideeye*

Oli! · **11-17-2015, 05:13 PM**

(11-17-2015, 05:06 PM)Kage Wrote: Well we see whore in game so it is "acceptable" already (whoresons)

I will admit... if someone said "I'm gonna cut ye" or "I'm gonna cap yer arse." I may just go "uh" or use "dude" IC.

Yeah, I more posted that tidbit for fun.

This second bit brings up something important though, which is that oftentimes people confuse phrases for words. Some words and their meanings are more than old enough to be used in certain settings. However, certain phrases that use them may not be.

...But just for fun, let's look at "Pop a cap." It's likely too modern by linguistic standards. I looked it up out of curiosity, and although it does have a few proto-uses according to this thread on the English section of Stackexchange, "pop a cap" in the stated usage can be pinned down to the 2000s.

(11-17-2015, 05:00 PM)V Wrote: Don't have much of an opinion aside from the belief that "fuck" is a little grating and kind of mundane given the copious alternatives given by the game itself.

I've only seen Swive offered as an alternative. The game gives us some other stuff like "Thal's Balls" and what-not, but those don't strictly mean "Fuck," or work in place of any of its derivative uses. "Thal's Balls" would more directly translate to something like "God Damn It," and something like Whoreson would translate to "Son of a Bitch" (or more directly, Son of a Whore).

Kage · **11-17-2015, 05:16 PM**

(11-17-2015, 05:13 PM)Oli! Wrote:
(11-17-2015, 05:06 PM)Kage Wrote: Well we see whore in game so it is "acceptable" already (whoresons)

I will admit... if someone said "I'm gonna cut ye" or "I'm gonna cap yer arse." I may just go "uh" or use "dude" IC.

Yeah, I more posted that tidbit for fun.

This second bit brings up something important though, which is that oftentimes people confused phrases for words. Something like "Pop a cap" likely too modern by linguistic standards. I looked it up out of curiosity, and although it does have a few proto-uses according to this thread on the English section of Stackexchange, "pop a cap" in the stated usage can be pinned down to the 2000s.

(11-17-2015, 05:00 PM)V Wrote: Don't have much of an opinion aside from the belief that "fuck" is a little grating and kind of mundane given the copious alternatives given by the game itself.

I've only seen Swive offered as an alternative. The game gives us some other stuff like "Thal's Balls" and what-not, but those don't strictly mean "Fuck," or work in place of any of its derivative uses.

I used the phrases more out of the idea that some words are apparently seen "out of place" so by extension those phrases. What about "I'll have to pass." ?

Some variations I believe I've seen in-game were "pissing" or "piss off" or "bugger off"

Pepe · **11-17-2015, 05:25 PM**

(11-17-2015, 05:00 PM)V Wrote: Don't have much of an opinion aside from the belief that "fuck" is a little grating and kind of mundane given the copious alternatives given by the game itself. My internal reaction to it when it's used during rp is largely identical to my reaction to someone saying "u wot mate" unironically irl.

It's all pretty trivial though, and not really worth addressing when it happens.

Using faux British swear words all the time is grating to me because it's something I associate with nerdy 14 year olds, or the type of adult that thinks that type of thing makes them sound sophisticated. There's really nothing to support that our vocabulary has to be hard limited to only what people have canonically said in this rated T game. Until they release some kind of Eorzean dictionary, there's not really any basis to say fuck is as lore breaking as, say, a Miqo'te Dragoon.

FreelanceWizard · **11-17-2015, 05:26 PM**

(11-17-2015, 03:42 PM)Aysun Wrote: Like I said, I prefer to see what is used by the NPCs be used by RPers. They seem to use archaic words AND modern British(loosely)-style stuff.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. An f-bomb isn't going to ruin my immersion, but I think it's a nice touch to stick to the curses Eorzeans use (as established by what NPCs say). There's a surprising number of options in that regard, and I like to stick to them because I think it feels more true to the setting. Smile

L'yhta has a surprisingly dirty mouth at times, as it turns out...

Oli! · **11-17-2015, 05:29 PM**

(11-17-2015, 05:16 PM)Kage Wrote: I used the phrases more out of the idea that some words are apparently seen "out of place" so by extension those phrases. What about "I'll have to pass." ?

Some variations I believe I've seen in-game were "pissing" or "piss off" or "bugger off"

I haven't come up with anything on "I'll have to pass" or "bugger off," but the angry usage of "piss off," and "pissed off," seems to have come about in US army regiments during World War II, according to multiple sources.

"Pissed" meaning "drunk" came about in 1929, according to this, while "pissed" meaning "angry" was an abbreviation of "pissed-off" that came about in 1971.

EDIT: This book actually has an entry on Bugger Off. The date it gives is 1922. Bugger itself is cited as appearing in 1555, though under a very different usage than what we mean today. "Bugger" is not cited to refer to an undesireable or lowly person until 1719, and is not cited to be used as an expletive until 1923. This is seemly corroborated by Slang and Its Analogues Volume 1, which as of its publishing in 1890, has no expletive definition for Bugger.

SECOND EDIT: This book also cites the earliest usage of Fuck to mean "damaged beyond repair" (i.e. "You fucked it up!") as being 1775, in the UK. Another interesting curiosity.

McBeefâ„¢ · **11-17-2015, 05:49 PM**

(11-17-2015, 05:10 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I generally don't try to police other people's language, because well, they're grown adults (ostensibly) and it's not my place.

If you're talking about cars in-character, though, I'll probably give you the side eye.

*sideeye*

What if you're a time travelling allagan.

Then you can talk about space ships ICly.

Kage · **11-17-2015, 06:10 PM**

Perhaps I think in too many swears because I keep thinking that I need more profanities than what we see in game. The Twelve variations don't count when your character isn't Religious (but he won't blaspheme the gods either)

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[NSFW] RP Discussion: Bad words said IC, for it or against it?

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