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Kellach Woods · **03-03-2016, 08:01 PM**

(03-03-2016, 09:49 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Twelve almighty, that sounds like a train wreck.

That we actually MANAGED to finish the dungeon is nothing short of a miracle.

Also, after that, let's duty roulette into Sephirot, which I hadn't done yet.

Last night was not good night Sad

Valence · **03-04-2016, 04:52 AM**

(03-03-2016, 10:07 AM)Aaron Wrote: Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right -_- dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

Ferus · **03-04-2016, 05:29 AM**

Ah hell, I'll put one down here:

People who have healer classes leveled and still don't switch to them in Frontlines rustles me. Like, two healers per group shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Especially if there's four Summoners in the party. Gear isn't even an excuse, considering that literally anything i150 and up can be used. And then we get into fights and lose because we only have two healers across 24 people.

Tl;dr: I just want my damn coat.

Aaron · **03-04-2016, 07:32 AM**

(03-04-2016, 04:52 AM)Valence Wrote:
(03-03-2016, 10:07 AM)Aaron Wrote: Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right -_- dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

Lonicera · **03-04-2016, 08:45 AM**

I joined a DF group last week that was a real gem.Â It was a low-level dungeon (Toto-rak, I think?Â Maybe Halatali?) and I was running Johari through to level.Â I was still below 30 at this point so I had a heal and Stoneskin equipped for solo grinds.Â It was a good thing I did...

Our tank was clearly an endgame guy - he had all of the flashy gear and a fancy axe that he kept flashing around.Â Oh, and he refused to use Overpower.Â Or attack more than one mob at a time.Â Even if two mobs out of a group of three would suddenly pile on the poor healer.

The second DPS, a rogue, spent more time jumping around and running past the creatures than actually hitting them.

The healer, although trying their best, was new and not really equipped to handle a group like this.Â Though they definitely got my commendation when it was all done.

I spent the entire run acting as secondary tank, DPS, and often a back-up healer.Â Thank goodness I had Stoneskin still equipped, because I had to use it after every pull.Â

At least I got all 3 commendations after it was done...Â Dazed

Valence · **03-04-2016, 10:19 AM**

I guess tank and rogue were both ashamed of themselves...Â Cool

Kellach Woods · **03-05-2016, 09:15 AM**

(03-04-2016, 07:32 AM)Aaron Wrote: 15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

You're also gonna run out of TP/MP (for DRKs) that much faster.

Valence · **03-05-2016, 09:48 AM**

(03-04-2016, 07:32 AM)Aaron Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 04:52 AM)Valence Wrote:
(03-03-2016, 10:07 AM)Aaron Wrote: Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right -_- dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).
15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

Mathematically not correct though. 20% of 15% amounts to 3% total. Crits or not crits.

I'm not saying that it's not going slower without it, but that sounds very, very negligible. If things are slow, then it's the DPS and/or the heal not doing their jobs properly, or as I said, the tank being super squishy.

But anyway. Yeah. Why would a DRK not use all his tools....

Aaron · **03-05-2016, 10:02 AM**

(03-05-2016, 09:48 AM)Valence Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 07:32 AM)Aaron Wrote:
(03-04-2016, 04:52 AM)Valence Wrote:
(03-03-2016, 10:07 AM)Aaron Wrote: Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right -_- dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).
15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

Mathematically not correct though. 20% of 15% amounts to 3% total. Crits or not crits.

I'm not saying that it's not going slower without it, but that sounds very, very negligible. If things are slow, then it's the DPS and/or the heal not doing their jobs properly, or as I said, the tank being super squishy.

But anyway. Yeah. Why would a DRK not use all his tools....

It SOUNDS negligible, but it not. There's a very distinct difference between a DRK using Dark side & GRIT dpsing with everyone, and a DRK spamming nothing but unleash while you got a single target and a summoner. I know this because I've tanked and dpsed before.

Valence · **03-06-2016, 05:19 AM**

So... after hearing horror stories from FC mates on how they met an 'icemage' in the Aery, and then a monk that was only spamming forbidden chakra, I queue up for my daily leveling for my own monk...

Wondering what will be the other DPS in the party while starting up Amdapor Keep Hard, I notice that the icon is not quite right... Pugilist. So, having a hard time believing it, I ask him if he forgot to put his soulstone or something... No answer. The heal is also a bit stunned to see that.

I examine the guy and... Well yeah. level 59 pugilist, no job level...

I facepalm hard when I see him aggroing the mobs before the tank, and then first boss, same, which of course leads to a wipe in less than 15sec.

Well, we kicked him instantly after but... Why dude. Why.

Warren Castille · **03-07-2016, 09:06 AM**

New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

Melkire · **03-07-2016, 09:20 AM**

(03-07-2016, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Midas in general constitutes the first piece of casual content (read: content that does not include cutting-edge progression nor Extreme/Savage variants) in which a tank swap is more or less required in order to mitigate a considerable amount of incoming damage.

I'm therefore not at all surprised that many tanks are still not well-practiced and/or well-versed in how to properly tank-swap in FFXIV.

Sounsyy · **03-07-2016, 10:04 AM**

(03-07-2016, 09:06 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

WHAT? Tank swapping is for STR tanks who don't have 30k HP to soak tank busters with no buffs!! /sarcasm totes kidding.

Midas has a few optional tank swaps, but whether or not they need to be executed (barring M2's required swaps) depends a lot on the MT and healer's ability to prep-heal. I actually didn't know there were tank swaps until week 2 because I got lucky with earlier groups...

M1: (optional) Not a true swap. OT should voke as soon as MT becomes concussed, which will redirect the tank buster onto the OT. MT can then voke/reclaim hate as soon as Concussion ends. OT can continue dpsing. Alternatively, MT pops mitigation buffs at 3 migraine stacks to prep for tank buster. Healers prep galvanize/stoneskin at Concussed.

M2: Required tank swaps during the 2nd and 4th bosses, both at 3 vulnerability stacks. The 4th boss's tank buster is what gives the vulnerability stack, so MT should prep cooldowns for that third hit. It usually comes either during Shiva Icicles or just after Ultra Flash.

M3: (optional) OT can elect to tank swap during Uplander Doom after the 3rd hit or so. Make sure if you do this you swap with defensive cooldowns up because Uplander Doom gives more stacks in later phases. If MT buffs with mitigation and convalescence, the healers shouldn't have any issue keeping MT up. It's usually only when MT don't buff Uplander Doom that they drop.

M4: (optional) During the first phase, tanks can swap immediately after every Perpetual Ray. This avoids having the tank with magick vulnerability taking the next three hits. Again, this can easily be mitigated/healed through by diligent tanks/healers who know what's coming.

Figured I'd throw something educational in with my shitpost. Oh, I have vent too! Faced more STR hate in DF recently. It hasn't been as bad as it was on patch day so it kinda threw me off, especially considering the math and new stat weights have been out for a week or better now. So listen, if you do not have WAR leveled past 15, have not researched its mechanics, and don't crunch stat numbers for my job - don't tell me what gear I should be wearing. If I want to know how to do 450 dps as a BLM, I'll be sure to come ask you.

Warren Castille · **03-07-2016, 10:12 AM**

I know there's work-arounds for a good number of the busters and mechanics, I'm just always annoyed when I'm being murdered despite them because either my co-tank doesn't care to do anything besides his shitty leet deepz or the healers are unaware of how to do their part to negate them (or are expecting a swap, and not needing to heal 90% of my health after a buster shot).

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

Melkire · **03-07-2016, 10:17 AM**

(03-07-2016, 10:12 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

Relevant vent:

Queued for Expert Roulette the other day, ended up in Antitower with an SCH who was full-out gung-ho DPS and would remain in Cleric Stance with Selene out, frequently allowing me to drop below 5.k HP when I still haven't transitioned from a full STR build. Oh, and I'm i209 on WAR so there's THAT.

Never before have I had to be so methodical and meticulous in planning, using, and rotating my defensive cooldowns.

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