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Valence · **10-28-2016, 02:47 AM**

(10-27-2016, 07:47 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(10-27-2016, 03:45 AM)Valence Wrote: Pretty sure WhM is even worse for that. Once your dots are up at least you can focus on healing. WhM needs to drop all DPS every time tank health go low, and with a tank like that, even with a boosted regen, it does very fast... :c

Over a longer fight WHM and SCH dps can usually even out, but for large AoE bursts like that WHM will probably win out. Yes, WHMs have to stop dps to heal, but it takes a SCH roughly 10~sec to get all of their DoTs up, with 3 of the 5 being delayed on AoE targets at least 5-6 seconds until you can Bane them all. Then another 15-30 seconds before they tick for full damage. A WHM can easily burn 4ish Holys in that same first 10s and then swap over to a quick burst heal and then swap back to dps 5s later if they desire. Back and forth. If damage is actually that severe that a Roused Selene (or Eos I guess?) cannot hold a tank up for at least rouse's duration on her own, then that SCH is probably going to have to drop out of Cleric for a much longer period to pop the tank back up to a safe level than it would take a WHM. Meanwhile we'll just have dots going, catching up to the damage a WHM would've already dealt by this point.

(Obviously not saying one healer better than the other or that one can't out dps the other or out heal the other, just that the two jobs have vastly different strengths and playstyles, and AoEing trash down quickly is just one of those things WHM is pretty great at.)

I was just saying that with a tank bad enough you don't even have much time to holy, but I don't disagree... For standard expert and similar roulettes i would take WhM all the time.

I guess my point is that if your tank is that bad (and I have seen quite a few), then if you manage to pull more than 2 Holy you are lucky. That's not even 400 potency for each mob. Sch dots amount for close to 1000 all combined if they run their course.

Caleria Amih · **10-28-2016, 12:54 PM**

(10-27-2016, 12:39 PM)Melkire Wrote: I'm really confused about this Keeper of the Lake run you had... because it's very easily done with just one DPS, so long as the healer is on top of their game and tank can both hold aggro and mitigate. Were Zippy and Skippy just... bad at their own roles? You mention lack of Protect/Stoneskin and needing to pop potions as a DRG... I assume the tank wasn't holding aggro Â worth a damn.

The issue I had was that yes, the tank was holding aggro- so much aggro that the healer was having a hard time keeping them alive. I play DRG in that I'm more effective against one mob at a time- I join the tank in beating on whatever mob they've chosen, in order to kill things faster (unless there's something like a nix-type enemy with a huge AoE move that requires a liberal amount of stunning to avoid the run getting all bashed up).Â DRG doesn't have that much in the way of distance or multi-target attacks (jumps and the lance-throw come to mind for distance, stuff like Ring of Thorns for multi-target), so I'm usually up with the tank taking my lumps and trying to avoid AoEs as best I can.Â

Sometimes I don't get out of the way quick enough; other times the attacks just end up layered in a way that it's impossible to get out of the way in time and you end up getting smacked around.Â I use the potions to help keep strain off the healer- being able to pop 2400 healing is awfully useful if you're in the thick of it.Â But if the healer's overwhelmed just trying to keep the tank on their feet, well... 2400 doesn't go very far in some dungeons, especially when you have lots of mobs around.

If the tank pulls so many mobs that the healer is having trouble keeping them alive while we try to get the damage under control, I think that's on the tank.Â It's always been my view that tank pulls mobs, but the healer sets the pace of the run- as DPS, it's my job to just kill whatever the tank's beating on and then move to the next target unless instructed otherwise. There's only so much I can do to peel enemies off the tank if I know I have to watch my HP and the only buff I have is some food I burned for the Vitality bonus (much easier for a healer to cast a Cure II than it is a Raise, yeah?), and DRG is built to go one-by-one, killing single enemies dead instead of just spamming Ring of Thorns until either the tank goes down or we manage to hang on.

Kage · **10-28-2016, 01:42 PM**

I am very confused as to how much damage is being done to you and -why- you are getting so much damage when the tank has aggro on everything.

Exactly how many individual mobs are up? Because DRG have -great- burst aoe dps. (They did just fine in the old speedrun Brayflox HM pull everything in like 3 pulls runs).

Jana · **10-28-2016, 01:44 PM**

DRG was one of the better AoE jobs at 50, I don't imagine the jump to 60 would have made their old AoE skills bad or anything.

Kage · **10-28-2016, 01:56 PM**

(10-28-2016, 01:44 PM)Jana Wrote: DRG was one of the better AoE jobs at 50, I don't imagine the jump to 60 would have made their old AoE skills bad or anything.

It was one of the top 3, especially when contained to only burst aoe dps. Its ranking has dropped in HW at 60 but that isn't much of a concern when talking about burst aoe at 50.

Saravahn · **10-30-2016, 09:40 AM**

So... running A11 today... and yeah, I know it's the PuG killer so I don't expect miracles when going in there on my own... but this was just, dumb.
Zone in and one of the healers says he's new. We explain mechanics and engage the boss.Â

New healer misses the air duct to jump onto the boss. Okay, that's fine... it's his first time. He then dies again during the "hectic" phase due to standing in everything, including propeller wind. Other healer can't keep up (because the rest of the group is also struggling to stay out of bad... you know, that thing you practice doing since level 1)... so we wipe.

We rehash the the mechanics, reengage... deja vu.Â

At this point, one of the DPS mentions that being new isn't an excuse for failing mechanics and states they're giving it one more shot before leaving. Rehash once more, engage.... the healer gets on the air duct, but fails everything else.

As promised, the DPS leaves and most of the group follows suit.Â

Here's the kicker....

The healer then states, "yeah I guess I should go youtube and watch this fight"

...

. . .

Maybe it's just the elitist in me, but seriously? The content has been out for over a month and a person who is new can't even take five minutes (if that) out of their day to watch a guide for the fight?

I get wanting to go in blind and experiencing it as though it's new, but after a month in... that's something you shouldn't put on PuGs, imo. You want the blind experience? Run it with friends, FC/LS-mates, whatever...

Blugh....

Kage · **10-31-2016, 11:29 AM**

The funny thing with A11 is that I missed the first week of Creator cause of an on-going government audit at my company so my stress and anxiety was through the roof and I couldn't deal with pugging. Anyway, the videos I saw didn't cover everything but...

A11's don't-stand-there-AoE-time!!! mechanics aren't new. It took 2 runs/wipes for me to realize that the non-standard glowing red symbol was yes an actual problem but it's just like Shiva's which were JUST LIKE TITAN's bombs. They blow up in order. So... go to the last one to be safe and then move to the free spot??? Osric and I went both new, didn't have time to really watch a vid as thoroughly as would have preferred... We got a comment of "best newbies ever" at one point. We ended up wiping once or twice but since it was the second week people didn't care as much.

And then last night Osric jinxed me when I was going into Trials roulette for Second Chance points. Got Chrysalis. Second chance yay! osric says I'll wipe 10 times. 2 bards, 1 blm, 1 monk. We wiped once because no one LB'd the tear (or even hit it except for when I tomahawk'd it a bit cause I was TAKING COMETS).

Explain after wipe: Gotta lb the tear asap, focus on the tear killing it.
Everyone expected monk to lb. Last second a bard realizes that monk is not LBing so they try but comets and wipe.
I say:
[18:02](Kage Kiryuu) Monk-name!
[18:02](a healer) ur supposed to lbit as soon as it appears
[18:02](Kage Kiryuu) Why are you in first of earth
[18:03](Kage Kiryuu) also you are the best to lmit break
Then I notice that there's only the monk, myself and another dps left so I leave as well.

Re-queue, Chrysalis again, Monk again! I don't say anything to the monk but there's now a dragoon too so I plead, "for love of all that is holy please lb the tear."
A Tank and healer joke "Oh sure you mean don't kill the tear?" "Oh ok healer limit break right?"

I notice, again, Monk still has fists of earth.
18:06](Kage Kiryuu) monk-name you're still in fist of earth
[18:07](other tank) MNK tank lol
[18:07](Monk-name) if u see im the only one not synchronise
[18:07](Monk-name) I just pop lv 50 so stfu retard
[18:08](a healer) Woah now. No need for -that- language!
[18:08](a dps) Seriously, don't be a prick.
[18:08](other tank) Damn, you should rename yourself Morton Salt'factory
[18:09](Kage Kiryuu) It's ok. He's made cause 5/8 people left the last chrysalis after two wipes.

A) You never asked for help and we also explained it? b) Fists of Fire and Fists of Earth are not level 50?? Fists of Fire is lvl 40? C) Someone went from 0 to fucking 100 real fast.

ExAtomos · **10-31-2016, 12:38 PM**

I had a weird run of the event dungeon last night. It was literally my last run of the place as I'd spent the day getting 6 alts their music and minion. I took my WAR alt Tin into the instance with a friend and we got 2 pugs. Maybe they knew each other, maybe not. I'll admit I was a bit brain-burnt at this point.

Pug1: something something traing comms something. (spelling as is) I got Tin Man.

Pug2: Okay

My brain didn't translate this at the time.

We get through the place in okay time, not the best, not the worst. The pugs are rather enthusiastic and seemed friendly enough. At the end, I picked one of the two I was going to comm, when...

Pug1: I commed you Tin Man.

(Me thinking: Well, uh that's nice of you. Why announce it...)

Pug2: I got you <my friend>

Me: Uh okay, I was going to comm Pug1.

(Me thinking: They did have to run around looking for that one last sigil to stand on.)

Friend: I was going to comm Pug1, uh let's see....

Pug1: No, you doofuses. You comm the one who commed you.

(Me thinking: "HOLD UP... are they comm farming ala 2014??")

Me: "Wait now... you earn comms, you don't beg for them." : |

Pug1: mouths off about how shitty I am and finishes with, "Typical tank!"

So uh... I guess there's some major tank conspiracy to withhold comms from the less-deserving classes? Did I miss a memo?

[Image: 1353.gif]

Kilieit · **10-31-2016, 12:48 PM**

Had a Sastasha just now where I think I encountered whatever the opposite of an ice mage is.

They kept casting Fire (and only the occasional Fire II... even on big packs...), and then would Transpose...

...and then keep casting Fire...

...and then wait when they ran OOM.

That's... not how Transpose works. x_x I only noticed because I thought trash packs were going pretty slow and I wanted to check it wasn't because of me - at first I examined them to make sure the level 1 kit they were in was actually glamoured and not just equipped (be surprised how many people think that's okay...) and, yes it was glamoured (meaning they had at least one class at 50), plus judging by the elevel of their gear they were synced down from 30 something.

How do you get... that far... and not...

[rubs forehead]

Valence · **10-31-2016, 01:41 PM**

Oh, fire mage?

Still have to find a thunder mage I guess and my life will be complete.

Charity322 · **11-01-2016, 12:46 AM**

Got my very first run through Thornmarch, so I watched the short (at least I thought) cutscene at the beginning. Chat gets cut off during cutscenes, so when it was done I found that one guy had been SHOUTING AT ME IN ALL CAPS, calling me a fucker for watching the cutscene and yelling to skip it now. Jesus, it's my first time. It isn't going to kill you to wait 30 seconds.

Later on I discovered that his yelling had also made me miss someone else explaining what to do, so thanks for that as well ...

I really hate 8 person dungeons.

Warren Castille · **11-01-2016, 02:36 PM**

Wondrous Tails has brought out some truly stupid people.

Ultima Hard Mode. Party comp should definitely be 1 tank (the party leader) and 7 dps slot. I mean, we all know how tough that encounter is!

Edda · **11-01-2016, 02:46 PM**

(10-31-2016, 12:48 PM)Kilieit Wrote: How do you get... that far... and not...

[rubs forehead]

Ran floors 21-30 of PotD the other day. There was a SCH in the group. After two floors I inspected him and yep, this was definitely a job he had at 60. Why did I think to check? Because all he did. The entire run. Was cast Ruin. Ruin 1. Didn't use Cleric Stance. Didn't use any dots. Didn't throw out a Leeches when people got hit by debuffs. Didn't even cast a single heal or buff. Just. Ruin 1. The whole time. Also he died to basilisk circle aoe. Three times.

Explain this.

Jana · **11-01-2016, 05:11 PM**

(11-01-2016, 02:36 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Wondrous Tails has brought out some truly stupid people.

Ultima Hard Mode. Party comp should definitely be 1 tank (the party leader) and 7 dps slot. I mean, we all know how tough that encounter is!

If it's unsynched, sure. The fight is about a minute long with all 60s. But did the party maker forget to turn that on?

Melkire · **11-01-2016, 05:13 PM**

(11-01-2016, 02:46 PM)Edda Wrote:
(10-31-2016, 12:48 PM)Kilieit Wrote: How do you get... that far... and not...

[rubs forehead]
Ran floors 21-30 of PotD the other day. There was a SCH in the group. After two floors I inspected him and yep, this was definitely a job he had at 60. Why did I think to check? Because all he did. The entire run. Was cast Ruin. Ruin 1. Didn't use Cleric Stance. Didn't use any dots. Didn't throw out a Leeches when people got hit by debuffs. Didn't even cast a single heal or buff. Just. Ruin 1. The whole time. Also he died to basilisk circle aoe. Three times.

Explain this.

Child being allowed to play on their parent's account. Not even adolescent, I mean a literal child.

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The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

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