RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Niteshade_Rune · **07-02-2013, 12:52 PM**

I tend to to b more a jack of all trades type in a sense, I haven't decided what all ill revisit when I get back in game but I wont b RP'ing just a specific class or role. The type of character I play is a bit more versatile . I can understand y some would prefer to RP a set role or class though lol. Course there's no reason not to incorporate multiclassing either. I always stand by .Playing ur character how u want .In a way that u enjoy. Either way .Works Cool

Moonfire · **07-02-2013, 12:54 PM**

I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

Naunet · **07-02-2013, 12:56 PM**

(07-02-2013, 12:54 PM)Moonfire Wrote: I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

You shouldn't ever apologize for speaking your mind in a respectful way.

Gideon Aryeh · **07-02-2013, 12:57 PM**

(07-02-2013, 12:54 PM)Moonfire Wrote: I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

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There is no need to do that, you find the way that works for you. Everyone who posted here has different views on how it is and no one way is right.
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Find a way that works for you, that's all.

With the way I see multiclassing/jobbing in FFXIV I look at it like an Elder Scrolls game, you get the skills you want put them together and call yourself what you want. Now there are those who want to just be a straight up class and job and that's great too. I will be using Beta 4 to basically "play my characters past" so that that the time launch starts the training he received icly will be in his background and on paper oocly.

But again I emphasize do it your way, Nobody is going to do it the exact same way. You know me I don't separate much I'm not going to give him something he can't do, you won't ever see Amaare casting spells for example, its not the character and never will be unless a mmo lets you have magic guns or something.

Sit on what you want to do a bit and feel free to ask me how to incorporate what you want to do. I haven't really been looking at these threads but just pm me and we will figure something out.

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-02-2013, 01:27 PM**

(07-02-2013, 12:54 PM)Moonfire Wrote: I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

Please don't feel you have to leave the conversation, not everyone was disagreeing with you and everyone RP's differently, in fact I was actually saying I would only really be leveling the things he would use in character as well.

Curtis West · **07-02-2013, 02:01 PM**

Perhaps the forums aren't the best place for anyone who can't stand others respectfully disagreeing with them.

As I was reading through the thread, I wanted to reply to so many people! But you guys have gone on for 3 pages and now I can't possibly do that. How dare you!? (Just kidding.)

My replies could be categorized in 2 points:

1) Perhaps my analogy wasn't clear enough, but people seem to think that I was talking about a character's skill with various weapons ("Mary Sue" was thrown around a few times, which I had to look up!). That is not the case. What I did talk about is one's ability.Â

Skill takes dedication, effort, and time to develop - that I agree with. It would be quite unrealistic to have an 18 year old girl who is the best mage ever period. However an 18 year old who is talented/gifted/dedicated falling into Conjury, and then spreading her knowledge over time to other disciplines to become very good at all magic - perhaps being absolutely brilliant in one particular style, seems plausible to me.Â

After all, our characters are special. No no, I don't buy into the whole "Main storyline hero" plot, but rather the realistic expectation of my character to NOT die as easily as an average warrior. He is above being fodder, and I think if you do not want your character to even be considered talented, you also have to face the fact that they would realistically die early on from something a talented warrior may survive (think dungeons, ambush, etc.) So, I assume if my character, or anyone else's doesn't die off easily, and survives these crazy "adventures" they are in fact either naturally talented or very dedicated and hard working.

2) If we assume most if not all PC characters are talented in one way or another, much like a talented / naturally gifted athlete, they can be above average at any fighting style. That doesn't mean they will be. Things like personal laziness, no exposure to other ways of fighting, or other character specific circumstances can prevent a talented warrior from developing as much as he or she can.

Given that multi-classing is encouraged in the game because of the adapted abilities of various classes to aid the "main" one, I am not sure why that doesn't filter into IC as well? Or at least it seems like some people were stinking to their character being good only at X and Y, but not mentioning that to be really good at X and Y, they need to be also pretty skilled in W and Z! And possibly A, B, and C too!Â

I don't understand why a character would prefer to be limited in what they know well (even though OOC'ly the player may have 50 everything), given that the best results come from cross-training both IRL and in-game.

***

That's it for my replies. I wanted to bring up another point though, which is physical vs magical ability. I personally have a wall between the two, meaning that one can either be skilled in one or the other. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think a talented warrior can mix the two equally well, or are they different sides of a coin?

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-02-2013, 02:15 PM**

(07-02-2013, 02:01 PM)Curtis West Wrote: I don't understand why a character would prefer to be limited in what they know well (even though OOC'ly the player may have 50 everything), given that the best results come from cross-training both IRL and in-game.

***

That's it for my replies. I wanted to bring up another point though, which is physical vs magical ability. I personally have a wall between the two, meaning that one can either be skilled in one or the other. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think a talented warrior can mix the two equally well, or are they different sides of a coin?

I think when we have jobs that require both DoW and DoM as base classes that wall can't really exist to any great extent. sure they might be better at one but if they have the skills for both that does not mean (in my eyes at least) that one should be kept low powered.

As to the first question maybe the character is lazy or just isn't interested in learning new things? sure I could spend all my time trying to improve my self in loads of new areas and to an extent I do do this through reading and research and stuff but at the same time there are some skills that I really couldn't care less about.

Anyway thats the way I see it,Â if any one else has any other points of view let us know Big Grin

FreelanceWizard · **07-02-2013, 02:19 PM**

(07-02-2013, 12:54 PM)Moonfire Wrote: I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

I think we actually agree. Smile

We can be pariahs together! Wink

Seriously, though, I think the fundamental issue is that some RPers feel that game mechanics (level, classes, and even in some cases the game's storylines) can be ignored in RP, and some don't. I come from the "game mechanics are one source of lore" school of thought, since those mechanics represent the rules of the world in which our characters exist. So, if the game lets you level up every class, well, then it's our job IMO as RPers to come up with an explanation. (I realize one can take this to an extreme -- say, with day/night cycles in game -- and I'm not advocating that.) Personally, I think the game has provided a justification in its plot.

However, just because people have disagreements on this doesn't mean they can't RP together. I will say, though, that accusing the other side of being a "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" is unproductive. Those characters are in many ways a function of their RP and overall perspective, not the level of power they have. Just because you know a lot of magic and are a tough guy doesn't mean that You Can Solve Every Problem and Everyone Loves You and You Have No Weaknesses Except Adorable Ones and No One Can Defeat You Ever, etc. It is indeed possible to play a powerful character that has enormous flaws that have significant effects in RP, just as one can play an insufferable level 1 wish fulfillment monstrosity.

All in all, though, I think it's entirely an reasonable middle ground for people to only level up those things their character would be particularly good at (level being a proxy for ability, more or less). If they aim for a Job, then yeah, that means they'll have to be good at a variety of things. The character I'm working on for launch will specialize in magic and have very, very limited ability (dabbling, really) in melee classes. If RP changes for that character, then sure, it might pick up and use melee more and magic less, but magic will remain its key expertise in RP, with melee as a secondary thing.

Adelpha · **07-02-2013, 02:53 PM**

I think it's perfectly acceptable to level classes "OOCly" that your character would never touch ICly in order to facilitate gameplay. Say, hypothetically, that we reach a point where having a particular cross-class skill is considered "mandatory" (or at least highly recommended) in order to be successful at your chosen job in end-game content. If you want to do that content and perform your job well in terms of game mechanics, you're going to need to level up that class to get that skill. If that class is something that your character would never do, then you're at an impasse, and you either need to decide whether to give priority to the game mechanics, or your RP.

While the OP has a good point about how a character who's skilled in one discipline may easily be able to justify being skilled in another similar discipline, I'd have a harder time ICly justifying something like a career white mage suddenly training up to become a skilled pugilist, without some serious IC training time. Or, say, you have a character who has an active dislike for a particular type of combat, and would never do such a thing ICly. While it's certainly possible to justify multi-class proficiency ICly, I don't think it always makes sense.

Personally, while RP is fun, this is an MMORPG for me first and foremost, and I have no problem with doing omitting purely gameplay-related things from my character's IC history, and I will never let IC logic stop me from participating in a piece of game content that I want to participate in. If you can make it fit ICly, then that's even better, but that's not something that I would ever consider a requirement in order to do the content. I'm not going to ever sit out of a fun raid because "my character would never do that ICly," but that's because I always like to participate in endgame content in MMOs and I'm not at all a career RPer (this is the first MMO I've ever RP'ed in, and may possibly be the only one). People who come to MMOs purely for RP and couldn't care less about the game mechanics will undoubtedly have the complete opposite view.

This is purely a matter of opinion, of course, and people who disagree with me are perfectly entitled to their own opinions. But the OP expressly asked for an explanation from people who are willing to level whole classes purely OOCly, so there you are. Smile

Myal · **07-02-2013, 07:51 PM**

(07-02-2013, 02:01 PM)Curtis West Wrote: After all, our characters are special. No no, I don't buy into the whole "Main storyline hero" plot, but rather the realistic expectation of my character to NOT die as easily as an average warrior. He is above being fodder, and I think if you do not want your character to even be considered talented, you also have to face the fact that they would realistically die early on from something a talented warrior may survive (think dungeons, ambush, etc.) So, I assume if my character, or anyone else's doesn't die off easily, and survives these crazy "adventures" they are in fact either naturally talented or very dedicated and hard working.

Does a knack for surviving automatically imply skill in combat, though? Maybe a character is just quick on their feet. Maybe they're cunning and avoid dangers to begin with. Maybe they're just plain lucky.

After all, Frodo survived that crazy journey of his and I'm pretty sure he would never be able to wield a halberd even if he trained all his life.

(07-02-2013, 02:01 PM)Curtis West Wrote: If we assume most if not all PC characters are talented in one way or another, much like a talented / naturally gifted athlete, they can be above average at any fighting style.

I'm not sure about that. Suppose there is a knife expert. He doesn't have extraordinary strength: he just has good stamina, a nimble feet to close in on enemies and the precision to strike soft, weak points. Could he wield a great axe? Could he even lift the thing?

You might argue that considering that he's talented in combat, if we gave him some months to train, he'd be able to use the great axe reliably. But then he'd be less nimble due to all the lifting muscles he'd develop. His hands would be less accurate due to the heavy strain he'd constantly give them. He'd be less of a knife expert.

Why would he learn a great axe at all, then? From his point of view, it'd be better to just continue to hone his skills with knife, to be even more effective using the ability that had served him well all his life.

(07-02-2013, 12:54 PM)Moonfire Wrote: I am sorry I ever posted on this thread. It is very clear that my views and the way that I like to RP are no longer accepted by most (at least the ones posting)
All of those points are valid ones. It is just time that I moved on.

Noooo! Please don't take my questions as any sort of an attack. I'm honestly curious what do you mean by "lvl IC-ly".

Niteshade_Rune · **07-02-2013, 07:58 PM**

Overall I think in my opinion at least that many of us will have varying and even similar viewpoints on this.
To me I see no right/wrong way to approach it when it comes down to it.
One thing that we said in an RP clan i was with in another mmo is that if u dont like the way someone RP's their character you of course are free to not R or interact with them IC'ly.
Then again I suspect that a good majority of the folks here will find a way to make things work as it seems to be a rather awesome and open minded community.

Sadly I'm not much of a writer or very good with words so tryin to explain things in a strong viewpoint of my own tends to not work well,
In the end though I feel the capability to RP while multi classing to me is easily doable.

Ashren Dotharl · **07-02-2013, 09:00 PM**

One thing we must also consider however is how difficult, in the game world, are these things to actually learn? If we look at THM/BLM for example they effectively only get three spells and a handful of minor buffs. Your first three spells are Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder, and every other spell from then on (with the exception of Scathe) are just some variation of those spells. Fire II is just a weaker hitting Fire I that covers an area, and Fire III is just a harder hitting version of Fire I, while Flare is essentially a combination of Fire II and Fire III. Blizzard effectively follows the same pattern.

Does it really take a lifetime of dedication to learn how to cast the same spell a few different ways? Even the THM questline seems to imply that all it takes to be a great caster are midichlorians is the ability to channel aether. Let's look at MRD/WAR next. All this class learns how to do is swing their axe around like a berserker, hit things really hard, and upon becoming a WAR you learn to channel your anger into more devastating attacks. Again, would this REALLY require a lifetime of dedication to learn? So why would it be so hard to consider a character who has mastered (or at least become considerably proficient) with swinging his axe around like a madman and flinging fireballs a few different ways?

I'm fully behind FreelanceWizard here, especially because the story and lore for the game, unlike many other games, does not make any implication that you are the Chosen One, but instead that you are one of many chosen ones. It could even be stated that anyone who does not master all forms of combat and skill is not a true Warrior of Light.

Myal · **07-02-2013, 09:20 PM**

(07-02-2013, 09:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Does it really take a lifetime of dedication to learn how to cast the same spell a few different ways? Even the THM questline seems to imply that all it takes to be a great caster are midichlorians is the ability to channel aether. Let's look at MRD/WAR next. All this class learns how to do is swing their axe around like a berserker, hit things really hard, and upon becoming a WAR you learn to channel your anger into more devastating attacks. Again, would this REALLY require a lifetime of dedication to learn? So why would it be so hard to consider a character who has mastered (or at least become considerably proficient) with swinging his axe around like a madman and flinging fireballs a few different ways?

Considering that the whole WAR quest is about stopping a character who fails at being a berserker despite having a lifetime of training as one, I'd say it's pretty hard. Also, people in the PUG guild quest make comments like "Whoa, it took me years to learn that!"

(07-02-2013, 09:00 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: I'm fully behind FreelanceWizard here, especially because the story and lore for the game, unlike many other games, does not make any implication that you are the Chosen One, but instead that you are one of many chosen ones. It could even be stated that anyone who does not master all forms of combat and skill is not a true Warrior of Light.

Mmm, I don't think having an Echo automatically means that you are good at battle. There are some non-combatants in the Path of Twelve, after all.

Ashren Dotharl · **07-02-2013, 09:54 PM**

(07-02-2013, 09:20 PM)Myal Wrote: Also, people in the PUG guild quest make comments like "Whoa, it took me years to learn that!"

Doesn't that just give more ground for the idea that players learn class/job skills easier than non-players? If the quest lore even acknowledges that we as players can learn skills that would take a normal person years to learn, and it only takes up a few weeks or so, then it would stand to reason that the game already justifies playing a character who has unlocked the potential of all guilds.

I'm not arguing that this can't make you a mary sue, or that it can't lead to god moding, but that the game already implies based on this that we far exceed normal people as far as our capacity to learn and utilize the skills of each class. In short, I'd say playing a character who has access to every class you've unlocked does not make you a god moder or a mary sue/gary stu, so long as you don't play it like you have access to all powers, all the time. You could always limit yourself in the same way the game does, not able to access skills or spells in the middle of a fight you don't already have equipped. For example if you're RPing as a Black Mage, not being able to swap to Dragoon suddenly mid RP.

ArmachiA · **07-02-2013, 10:12 PM**

Loki is a former Archer, new Arcanist (Soon Summoner) in RP so she knows two jobs, but not all of them (She doesn't know about being a bard either). The thing is, I do endgame and since this game allowed you to multiclass, you're going to see Loki with lots of high level jobs (To switch around as necessary). She's my "endgame character", all my other characters will have jobs only related to their RP persona's (Armi will be a former CNJ turned BRD, for instance), but Loki will have many, many OOC jobs leveled. As I like the idea of running through end game on one character (For selfish reasons - so people recognize me easier and won't be scared to ask me to a raid or something) I see no other way around not leveling her on multiple jobs. Loki will not know these jobs ICly probably ever.

HOWEVER, I totally get only leveling the job you have for RP. In fact, it's something I would do if I wasn't doing endgame. It's a personal choice and one I totally get.

It's also a personal choice to level a Maurader but say your a Chocobo breeder. RP is pretty flexible.

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RP and multi-classing

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes