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S'demyx Tia · **08-10-2013, 02:29 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:17 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: "...In either case I honestly think this thread should be locked or something, it's quickly approaching the danger zone."

Â
I disagree.

Everyone seems to be stating their opinion openly (w/o calling people out like on the BTF) without too much flack from others. Not sure why you deem this a lockable thread thus far. No one seems to be attacking anyone else, but merely having a mature discussion.

Being able to discuss your feelings on the topic while respecting what others have to say is a common trend amongst this board. No need to lock in my opinion!Â Thumbsup

Reppu · **08-10-2013, 02:32 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:27 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(08-10-2013, 02:17 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: It's not discrimination, especially when, like I said, it's not even legal in most places this game is sold.

It doesn't have to be legal to be discriminated against. Other globally released MMOs with non-gender-restricted marriage have trucked along just fine, without even a single ripple when it was released.

They were also implemented at a point -far- from their launch date, which is often ignored.

It's much harder to implement a massive ban and a sudden increase in the ratings when something is already massed in the market and actively being supported. -That- causes riots. Which no one can afford to have.

Naunet · **08-10-2013, 02:36 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:32 AM)Reppu Wrote: They were also implemented at a point -far- from their launch date, which is often ignored.

It's much harder to implement a massive ban and a sudden increase in the ratings when something is already massed in the market and actively being supported. -That- causes riots. Which no one can afford to have.

Uhm... riots, what? I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say in that second paragraph.

Trion implemented marriage when they did because it wasn't a system they had considered when the game released - unlike ARR, where marriage is something Yoshi has told us is for sure coming. It was something Trion did as a gesture of support towards the roleplaying community.

Reppu · **08-10-2013, 02:46 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:36 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(08-10-2013, 02:32 AM)Reppu Wrote: They were also implemented at a point -far- from their launch date, which is often ignored.

It's much harder to implement a massive ban and a sudden increase in the ratings when something is already massed in the market and actively being supported. -That- causes riots. Which no one can afford to have.

Uhm... riots, what? I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say in that second paragraph.

Trion implemented marriage when they did because it wasn't a system they had considered when the game released - unlike ARR, where marriage is something Yoshi has told us is for sure coming. It was something Trion did as a gesture of support towards the roleplaying community.

Counter Point: Marriage wasn't in FFXIV, unless I'm wrong? I was not active in 1.0.

And, riots. That is, if your game is suddenly banned in your country after you've invested money and time into it, you'd probably get really pissed. Granted I doubt Russia would see -riots- over FFXIV being banned a few months down the line because Square-Enix implemented gay marriage? It would be far less likely to be banned -period- down the line.

It's far more likely it would be banned in Russia and the Middle-East BEFORE it's released, if it was openly advertised to allow and support gay marriage.

Slip it in quietly during Patch 2.1 or 2.2? Awesome. Everyone is happy, we only had to wait a few months. No one gets buttmad besides the unreasonable sect of actually discriminatory fools.

synaesthetic · **08-10-2013, 02:46 AM**

So easy to whiteknight for this when it doesn't affect you and won't ever affect you.

Try being gay sometime and being consistently marginalized and ignored by the entire gaming industry and all developers not called Bioware.

Naunet · **08-10-2013, 02:48 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:46 AM)Reppu Wrote: Slip it in quietly during Patch 2.1 or 2.2? Awesome. Everyone is happy, we only had to wait a few months. No one gets buttmad besides the unreasonable sect of actually discriminatory fools.

Uhm...

I'm honestly confused as to what you think I was arguing for. We know marriage isn't going to be in the release version of the game, that it's coming some time after the game launches. What we don't know is if the system will come with ridiculous gender restrictions or not.

Dubs · **08-10-2013, 02:48 AM**

IMO players would be RPing marriage (hetero/LGBT) regardless of implementation of any in game mechanic. Nothing is preventing anyone from orchestrating a marriage event within their respective LS/FC. Think it's just better to do away any sort of in game marriage gimmick until they get their server loads stable. For now everything seems to be centered around conjecture, hyperbole and ad hominem which does nothing but circumvent pointless discourse.

Reppu · **08-10-2013, 02:52 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:46 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: So easy to whiteknight for this when it doesn't affect you and won't ever affect you.

Try being gay sometime and being consistently marginalized and ignored by the entire gaming industry and all developers not called Bioware.

I try not to boast my sexuality because it's not anyone's business? But I consider myself pansexual, bordering asexual due to my actual lack of interest in sexual acts, although I can find a man or a woman very nice to look at, but my lack of interest in gender borders remains.

I am, ultimately, affected by this in so much that in a technical sense. It just depends if I opt to play a Male Character or Female Character. Although I am obviously playing a Female Character, so this would only strike me if I opt for a Female Character as my romantic partner, in a sense of Roleplaying, and I -require- marriage to solidify it in-game.

In the real world? I'm in the discriminated sect! That's why I -support- this movement, but not to toxic, mud-slinging levels.

I strongly support the LGBT movement. I just feel that swinging the bat at those who are opting for patience, is bad form.

synaesthetic · **08-10-2013, 02:53 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:48 AM)Dubs Wrote: IMO players would be RPing marriage (hetero/LGBT) regardless of implementation of any in game mechanic. Nothing is preventing anyone from orchestrating a marriage event within their respective LS/FC. Think it's just better to do away any sort of in game marriage gimmick until they get their server loads stable. For now everything seems to be centered around conjecture, hyperbole and ad hominem which does nothing but circumvent pointless discourse.

Easy solution is easy in two steps:

1) Add wedding outfits as crafting recipes.
2) Let people RP their weddings however they wish.

It's all-inclusive, cheaper than implementing game mechanics and since it's completely under the control of the players, nobody can accuse Squeenix of supporting those filthy homos.

Reppu · **08-10-2013, 02:54 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:48 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(08-10-2013, 02:46 AM)Reppu Wrote: Slip it in quietly during Patch 2.1 or 2.2? Awesome. Everyone is happy, we only had to wait a few months. No one gets buttmad besides the unreasonable sect of actually discriminatory fools.

Uhm...

I'm honestly confused as to what you think I was arguing for. We know marriage isn't going to be in the release version of the game, that it's coming some time after the game launches. What we don't know is if the system will come with ridiculous gender restrictions or not.

Exactly. Put some trust in Yoshi-P I say. Strike the anvil if it begins to cool, but do not sling mud and do not beat the anvil into fragments. I'll fight for this as much as needed, but I personally will not step beyond the bounds of reason.

If the head developer says he is looking into it, and is asking for patience due to the delicate nature of this topic due to this day and age? I respect immensely that he is looking into it. This is far more than many others can claim.

He also likes roleplaying, so shrug.

Ashren Dotharl · **08-10-2013, 02:59 AM**

(08-10-2013, 02:53 AM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(08-10-2013, 02:48 AM)Dubs Wrote: IMO players would be RPing marriage (hetero/LGBT) regardless of implementation of any in game mechanic. Nothing is preventing anyone from orchestrating a marriage event within their respective LS/FC. Think it's just better to do away any sort of in game marriage gimmick until they get their server loads stable. For now everything seems to be centered around conjecture, hyperbole and ad hominem which does nothing but circumvent pointless discourse.

Easy solution is easy in two steps:

1) Add wedding outfits as crafting recipes.
2) Let people RP their weddings however they wish.

It's all-inclusive, cheaper than implementing game mechanics and since it's completely under the control of the players, nobody can accuse Squeenix of supporting those filthy homos.

They're more than likely already going to have wedding costumes you can use, so you'll be able to RP your wedding all you want. I wouldn't be surprised if the only thing the wedding mechanic did was give you the option to change your name to match your spouse, and considering me and my wife are already doing that from the start it's not that big a deal for us.

synaesthetic · **08-10-2013, 03:01 AM**

When it comes to acceptance of homosexuality, I don't trust any game developer at all, not even Bioware after they let themselves get pushed around by LucasArts.

I like a lot of what Yoshida advocates, but sometimes I think the entire ARR dev team is so incredibly over-cautious that they're going to end up selling themselves short in a big way. Yes, I get it--1.0 was a failure of colossal proportions. I know that well, since I am a 1.0 player.

But I seriously think they're worrying themselves into near-paralysis, which isn't going to help them recover from that fiasco. They're going to have to be bold, to be brave, to go out on a limb and really bust their asses to make ARR successful. Unfortunately they aren't doing that; they're playing it absurdly, ridiculously safe and that will end up not being very safe for them.

Domri Blackblade · **08-10-2013, 03:09 AM**

(08-10-2013, 03:01 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: When it comes to acceptance of homosexuality, I don't trust any game developer at all, not even Bioware after they let themselves get pushed around by LucasArts.

I like a lot of what Yoshida advocates, but sometimes I think the entire ARR dev team is so incredibly over-cautious that they're going to end up selling themselves short in a big way. Yes, I get it--1.0 was a failure of colossal proportions. I know that well, since I am a 1.0 player.

But I seriously think they're worrying themselves into near-paralysis, which isn't going to help them recover from that fiasco. They're going to have to be bold, to be brave, to go out on a limb and really bust their asses to make ARR successful. Unfortunately they aren't doing that; they're playing it absurdly, ridiculously safe and that will end up not being very safe for them.

But marriage isn't coming out with release... and they have until 2.1 to make that decision. As far as I've read, there's no real hard decision yet. And the fact that they've come out and said they are going to think about it is a huge step. Let's not kick the cat before we know the whole deal.

I am gay, so yes, I understand where you're coming from. I also understand that they are a different culture than mine. I can see their standpoint as well. Especially in the culture that is theirs. They have made no stance yet on either side, so I think the energy is better spent.

For example, maybe people can write politeÂ non-confrontationalÂ and non-passiveÂ aggressiveÂ write ups, pleas, arguments for why they think this feature should be added. Provide detailed views, show them why you think it could only benefit the community.

I think we can get through to them by November.

Reppu · **08-10-2013, 03:13 AM**

And in the chance, likely as it may be, that nothing comes of all of it? Set the example. Push for your equality, but keep in mind that while we're asking for acceptance and equality, we must also be open minded to the difference in culture, and the slowly progressing change of the world.

While this is a realistic issue? This is also a game. If by November there is no gay marriage? Hold your own ceremonies. Throw big bashes. Have your weddings even if they're not using some random mechanic.

Show everyone you won't be kept down. But be tolerant of the fact that other cultures, other restrictions still exist. Be accepting, while not submissive.

Fight, but fight with passion.

Dubs · **08-10-2013, 03:14 AM**

Totally making a LS dedicated to Eorzean Divorce & Family law theme. I expect my LS/FC to be listed under SEs "Threats" webpage in a matter of days.

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