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Syl Souther · **01-30-2014, 06:02 PM**

(01-30-2014, 05:32 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 05:17 PM)Augustine Frost Wrote: It's a thin line to dance on, doing your own personal plots in the open. If we're going to talk about being exclusive in public, to ooc shame people in /say for RPing their characters, just be exclusive in the first place. Better to be safe than sorry. What's the point in RPing a lawman if you can't arrest people confessing illegal activity in public?

I think you definitely can arrest people RPing in public, I just think you have to work around their goals for the RP. I had absolutely no problem with her confronting us and arresting my character, I don't think C'kayah had a problem with what happened to him either. It's just that at the end of the day, It's my opinion(especially after reading everyone's replies), if you walk up to people who are RPing, even if they are in a public place, you should respect their wishes about how they want things to end over your own. I play an authority character myself, so I took her threats seriously, and allowed myself to be taken off to jail, however when it was clear the player wasn't really interested in how I wanted it to end, things got slightly heated.

Here's how I handle it. I see some interesting, intense rp in the open say channel, I ask before I intervene. It's plain rude not to. This goes for rp in super public settings (in and around the Quicksand) as well as the less crowded alleyways and desert. When I saw Natalie and C'kayah arguing with the mage, I sent C'kayah a tell asking for permission to push my character in there before emoting. I left the moment I thought my character's actions (if carried out) would take over the rp.

Common courtesy. You're interrupting someone else's storyline. Don't make it yours.

HOWEVER. Augustine has a point that some rp activities are better done in private (whether that's in party chat or far from the Quicksand). If you're confessing to criminal activity in the middle of a public place, expect to intrigue people and receive a few tells. Rpers like to get involved, not just ooh and aah at your creative writing skills. That sort of confession wouldn't realistically be done in the middle of a crowd anyway.

I think it's wrong to think that you, as the original storyline creator, own the ultimate say in an rp that involves other characters. Once a character joins your rp, he/she becomes a stake in that storyline. That person's opinions matter. It's up to everyone involved to settle on a conclusion that's realistic and cool to all.

Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

Whittledown · **01-30-2014, 06:16 PM**

(01-30-2014, 05:17 PM)R'ikve Niall Wrote: Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

I take issue with this. There is no authority in this game beyond what we agree upon. By saying this, you're effectively saying that the OTHER rper has final say in what her character does. And that's just ridiculous.

Syl Souther · **01-30-2014, 06:29 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:16 PM)Whittledown Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 05:17 PM)R'ikve Niall Wrote: Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

I take issue with this. Â There is no authority in this game beyond what we agree upon. Â By saying this, you're effectively saying that the OTHER rper has final say in what her character does. Â And that's just ridiculous.

Â
I said that. Not sure why it's quoting Augustine Frost. ((EDIT: Nevermind, I must be seeing things.))

The other rper is making a public arrest for the confession of a crime in a public setting. This arrest sounds realistic to me. (Granted, I wasn't there for this part of the Natalie-C'kayah-mage rp so it might've played out differently than I imagine.) If we deny the ability for our lawman rp characters to make lawful arrests in a public setting... then you're effectively castrating those lawman characters. Like what Augustine said, what's the point in rping a lawman if you go to arrest a person and you always have to back down because the character's author is squeamish in getting arrested? If you commit an illegal act in public, be OK with being arrested.

McBeefâ„¢ · **01-30-2014, 06:31 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:02 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote: Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

I take issue with this as well. By that logic I could use this on every other character I meet.

"Natalie--if you're being forcibly murdered and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to be alive--then you're murdered. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with being alive."

I'm joking a bit, but I think it's true. Also I don't think a character walking up to talk to you counts as "Joining an RP". I think that if you approach people with zero discussion OOC, then you have to be willing to accept that they might not 100% go along with everything you say. I'll go along with like 99% of what walk up RPers say, but if it involves the death/imprisonment/disgrace/maiming of my character, it kind of needs to be discussed at least a little first, in my opinion.

(01-30-2014, 06:29 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote: The other rper is making a public arrest for the confession of a crime in a public setting. This arrest sounds realistic to me. (Granted, I wasn't there for this part of the Natalie-C'kayah-mage rp so it might've played out differently than I imagine.) If we deny the ability for our lawman rp characters to make lawful arrests in a public setting... then you're effectively castrating those lawman characters. Like what Augustine said, what's the point in rping a lawman if you go to arrest a person and you always have to back down because the character's author is squeamish in getting arrested? If you commit an illegal act in public, be OK with being arrested.

As I said, I had no problem being arrested. As you saw I went along with it. The only part I have issue with is when after we left, the person was unwilling to go along with any outcome other than I go to jail. I was also unwilling to go along with any outcome other than somehow I get free, even if temporarily. This is really the core of the question I was asking at the beginning. If there is a situation like this, where neither player is willing to back down and follows the other's lead... do the original RPers have the high ground? Or is the Public RPer just as valid in not backing down. Do I have an obligation to treat the actions of people who walk up while I'm talking with the same weight as the people I'm actually doing the RP with? I tend to think I don't, because the public RPer can easily do things and walk away from the consequences. I think, as others have said, if they do want to seriously alter what is going on in front of them, they need to talk to people OOC.

Ildur · **01-30-2014, 06:35 PM**

Generally speaking, I think that the only activities that should be kept in private should be the ones that those involved think should be kept private or when it makes sense that no one but those involved could interrupt the scene. Inside buildings, caves, secluded locations, in a sailing ship, etcetera. Otherwise, keeping all RP in private chats is a good way to never get RP out in the world more than for casual scenes.
Of course, acting in public carries certain consequences (particularly, that you can be interrupted), but that's something you implicitly agree when RPing in /say.

R'ikve Niall Wrote:Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested.

I don't like this logic. First, you are telling Natalie that she doesn't get the ultimate say. But then you give the ultimate say to the other character, the one forcing the actiong on her. I could use this to justify anything:

"Ildur--if you're being forcibly killed and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to survive--then you're killed."

Since roleplaying is a cooperative form of storytelling, it doesn't make sense for anyone to have the ultimate say by default on it unless it has been decided before (sort of stablishing a "Game Master" for the plot). Just as Natalie shouldn't decide by default what happens, so shouldn't anyone else. The RP ends when any of the involved individuals reject any idea of compromise more than "It goes how I say it goes". There's no option but to make a compromise and to discuss it OOCly. As Freelance has said, if no compromise is achieved, then you take your ball (your character) and walk away, for the RP has critically failed on its basic premise: cooperative storytelling.

EDIT: Oh, hey, Natalie is a ninja too! A ninja paladin. And I though we had enough with ninja pirates!

Aldotsk · **01-30-2014, 06:37 PM**

If you are ICly playing along with it, then it is your consequence of pushing the plot. If you are going to intervene into someone else's plot, you can probably contact them OOCly in Private asking "Hey, is the conversation between You and the character ABC loud? If yes, then do you mind if my character heard it and intervene?" - Or you can use 'emote' by text saying that you were "talking in a very low tone for people to unable to hear you." Even Elezen who may hear a bird chirping from a mile away cannot hear group of people whispering to each other's ear if they are talking in an extremely low volume.Â

There are many things that can be avoidable to prevent any further dramas. But you'll have to remember that once you respond to these conflicts ICly, then you'll have to do something to change your words for it like D&D.

When your situation has occurred, you can go and say ((Hold on a moment here. Can we talk about this OOCly?))

Whittledown · **01-30-2014, 06:37 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:29 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:16 PM)Whittledown Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 05:17 PM)R'ikve Niall Wrote: Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

I take issue with this. Â There is no authority in this game beyond what we agree upon. Â By saying this, you're effectively saying that the OTHER rper has final say in what her character does. Â And that's just ridiculous.
Â
I said that. Not sure why it's quoting Augustine Frost. ((EDIT: Nevermind, I must be seeing things.))

The other rper is making a public arrest for the confession of a crime in a public setting. This arrest sounds realistic to me. (Granted, I wasn't there for this part of the Natalie-C'kayah-mage rp so it might've played out differently than I imagine.) If we deny the ability for our lawman rp characters to make lawful arrests in a public setting... then you're effectively castrating those lawman characters. Like what Augustine said, what's the point in rping a lawman if you go to arrest a person and you always have to back down because the character's author is squeamish in getting arrested? If you commit an illegal act in public, be OK with being arrested.

The problem is that just because you've decided to RP an authority figure, that doesn't mean that you have authority over RP that you otherwise aren't involved in.

Example. I was involved in an RP where my character was attacked by two assassins. She survived, but it happened in a pretty public setting. The assassins escaped, but word traveled to a player who is playing an authority figure with the Immortal Flames. I was contacted for permission to have the Flames involved but since it wasn't really my character who would be most impacted, I referred them to the player of the character who ordered the hit. The character ordered the hit has agreed to allow for the Flames to get involved in the plot.

So there we go, an authority figure wanted to be involved in the plot, contacted those involved, was given permission, and things proceed. This isn't difficult or time consuming.

Without knowing the player of a character VERY well I would be extremely leery of allowing characters who ostensibly have authority to impact my character in ways that I have not previously agreed upon.

C'kayah Polaali · **01-30-2014, 06:40 PM**

Ultimately it's about agency. As players, we shouldn't ever feel like we don't have agency over our characters. Obviously we don't want to abuse that agency - if I play a criminal who flaunts his crimes yet always says OOCly "Sorry, I'm not willing to be arrested", no one will want to RP with me.

The commonly accepted precept from conflict RP of "roleplay the action, let your target roleplay the result" applies here.

Sophia_Grave · **01-30-2014, 06:45 PM**

Glad to see it was resolved peacefully.

I'll parrot C'kayah and say its all about agency. Usually I have no problems with a guest in my RP, but they certainly should know they don't have OOC control even if their character would have IC control. Nat, you definitely did the right thing here. I wish I was on, V'teelah could've had fun ;D

Aldotsk · **01-30-2014, 06:46 PM**

I've seen a lot of RPers who just grief on other RPs by just jumping into a conversation for a second to demean you and they just leave before you could even bother to say anything so that they can't hear you (like zoning out). Those people are encouraged to ignore on many occasion because they aren't really roleplaying to interact with you but they are just being sadistically trolling. It's either you RP or you don't RP. At least this person had the courtesy to RP with you, and you both negotiated with something. That's how it should work.

No one should be labeled as "I cannot be arrested or I can't get hurt." Because that's just really not making anything fun. That is why WoW RP system was really broken 80% of the time because no one wanted to be arrested for their crimes, so they just "stealth" away or use BS method to get away from such situations

Syl Souther · **01-30-2014, 06:48 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:31 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:02 PM)R Wrote: Natalie--if you're being forcibly arrested and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to escape--then you're arrested. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with C'kayah.

I take issue with this as well. By that logic I could use this on every other character I meet.

"Natalie--if you're being forcibly murdered and the other character disagrees with your OOC intent to be alive--then you're murdered. Obviously a compromise is ideal... but you don't get the final say just because you started the rp with being alive."

I'm joking a bit, but I think it's true. Also I don't think a character walking up to talk to you counts as "Joining an RP". I think that if you approach people with zero discussion OOC, then you have to be willing to accept that they might not 100% go along with everything you say. I'll go along with like 99% of what walk up RPers say, but if it involves the death/imprisonment/disgrace/maiming of my character, it kind of needs to be discussed at least a little first, in my opinion.

And that's why I said FIRST that it's rude as hell to enter into an intense rp without a tell. If that tell doesn't happen and you don't give the OK for that character to enter the rp... then forget it. Ignore the jerk.

But once you agree to let that person join your rp, you agree to respect that person's rp. Again, it isn't outrageous to think that a lawman should be able to arrest your character.

I think you're putting a lot into the thought of being arrested. There's a big difference between being arrested... being imprisoned (for short/long period of time)... and being killed.

McBeefâ„¢ · **01-30-2014, 06:57 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:48 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote: And that's why I said FIRST that it's rude as hell to enter into an intense rp without a tell. If that tell doesn't happen and you don't give the OK for that character to enter the rp... then forget it. Ignore the jerk.

But once you agree to let that person join your rp, you agree to respect that person's rp. Again, it isn't outrageous to think that a lawman should be able to arrest your character.

I think you're putting a lot into the thought of being arrested. There's a big difference between being arrested... being imprisoned (for short/long period of time)... and being killed.

I would agree about this... but the problem was that it was happening at like 1:15am. The other character said essentially, well you should be in jail at least a few hours. If it was like 8pm I wouldn't care, I'd have plenty of time to figure out what is going on, we could discuss it. However they wanted to end it with my character in jail, which in order to respect, I would have to refrain from any other RP stuff until they decided to log on and finish the RP tomorrow. I didn't feel like doing that, and I wanted to resolve the issue to some degree before I went to bed so I wouldn't have to sit around all day tomorrow waiting to see if this other person would actually log on.

So it wasn't just the arrest (I let her arrest me), but also because I wanted some sort of resolution that could happen in like 30 minutes, (C and I had already been RPing for like 4 hours) so I could go to bed Tongue

. To me thats another reason why you should ask before you do something crazy, people might be trying to wrap something up because of their real life schedule.

***Maril*** · **01-30-2014, 07:02 PM**

No matter what side of the good/evil lawful/criminal fence you're on, you should always ask OOCly before you do something that for sure turns the characters story upside down and spin it around. Even though actions have consequences, and they rightfully have to be followed, when you play in either end of the scale you need to have a very healthy respect for people's plots and events, and the time/dedication they have to their character. Lawful people that have the right to arrest need to ask, and evil people who have the power to kidnap people (examples) need to ask, there's no difference at all. Being evil/bad doesn't mean you automatically sign a contract saying you're ready to accept everything (there are exceptions, of course). It doesn't give the people a get out of jail card from monopoly, but if someone went and severely injured your character right before an event where your role is so important the whole thing have to be moved, because of a random act of violence.. I mean, I'd be pretty grumpy, if that happened to me - even if it was completely logical icly. We're all roleplayers at the end of the day, I think it wouldn't hurt if more people remembered this.Â
So, absolutely is it alright that you say that people shouldn't stick their nose in your plot right at this moment. There might be a development later on where that character could get their nose involved again, which would suit everyone better and still secure a sense of influence on the final outcome/the future, where they can let their character react true to its nature. In many situations where these things arise as problems, I have found that you can usually always figure out a logical reason for the character not to react (Like, why arrest two people when you're alone and outnumbered, etc).Â

Happy to hear that the situation was solved ^^ Just felt like pitching in with my two gil.

Syl Souther · **01-30-2014, 07:08 PM**

(01-30-2014, 06:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:48 PM)R Wrote: And that's why I said FIRST that it's rude as hell to enter into an intense rp without a tell. If that tell doesn't happen and you don't give the OK for that character to enter the rp... then forget it. Ignore the jerk.

But once you agree to let that person join your rp, you agree to respect that person's rp. Again, it isn't outrageous to think that a lawman should be able to arrest your character.

I think you're putting a lot into the thought of being arrested. There's a big difference between being arrested... being imprisoned (for short/long period of time)... and being killed.

I would agree about this... but the problem was that it was happening at like 1:15am. The other character said essentially, well you should be in jail at least a few hours. If it was like 8pm I wouldn't care, I'd have plenty of time to figure out what is going on, we could discuss it. However they wanted to end it with my character in jail, which in order to respect, I would have to refrain from any other RP stuff until they decided to log on and finish the RP tomorrow. I didn't feel like doing that, and I wanted to resolve the issue to some degree before I went to bed so I wouldn't have to sit around all day tomorrow waiting to see if this other person would actually log on.

So it wasn't just the arrest (I let her arrest me), but also because I wanted some sort of resolution that could happen in like 30 minutes, (C and I had already been RPing for like 4 hours) so I could go to bed . To me thats another reason why you should ask before you do something crazy, people might be trying to wrap something up because of their real life schedule.

So the problem wasn't that you were being arrested/led away and you didn't want to be... it was because you needed to go to bed? And didn't want to be stuck out of rp the next day?

McBeefâ„¢ · **01-30-2014, 07:30 PM**

(01-30-2014, 07:08 PM)Rikve Niall Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(01-30-2014, 06:48 PM)R Wrote: And that's why I said FIRST that it's rude as hell to enter into an intense rp without a tell. If that tell doesn't happen and you don't give the OK for that character to enter the rp... then forget it. Ignore the jerk.

But once you agree to let that person join your rp, you agree to respect that person's rp. Again, it isn't outrageous to think that a lawman should be able to arrest your character.

I think you're putting a lot into the thought of being arrested. There's a big difference between being arrested... being imprisoned (for short/long period of time)... and being killed.

I would agree about this... but the problem was that it was happening at like 1:15am. The other character said essentially, well you should be in jail at least a few hours. If it was like 8pm I wouldn't care, I'd have plenty of time to figure out what is going on, we could discuss it. However they wanted to end it with my character in jail, which in order to respect, I would have to refrain from any other RP stuff until they decided to log on and finish the RP tomorrow. I didn't feel like doing that, and I wanted to resolve the issue to some degree before I went to bed so I wouldn't have to sit around all day tomorrow waiting to see if this other person would actually log on.

So it wasn't just the arrest (I let her arrest me), but also because I wanted some sort of resolution that could happen in like 30 minutes, (C and I had already been RPing for like 4 hours) so I could go to bed . To me thats another reason why you should ask before you do something crazy, people might be trying to wrap something up because of their real life schedule.

So the problem wasn't that you were being arrested/led away and you didn't want to be... it was because you needed to go to bed? And didn't want to be stuck out of rp the next day?

I feel like you are kind of misrepresenting what I said. It was a mix of various things. In the end I don't feel like the player has to explain their internal reasoning for why they make RP decisions. Yes, I understand that you think I should have gone along with it, I'm not saying someone is wrong if they do. I just think that if you are the one who walks up with no OOC contact, and you do something like arrest someones char, when they finally do contact you OOC saying, "Can we figure out a way to resolve this soon, because I want to go to bed", you answer probably shouldn't be "No".

I feel like that post has kind of a malignant tone, like it's somehow wrong of me to to shift RP based on OOC factors. Like hey, people gotta sleep, if I'm about to go to sleep and someone walks up and stabs me, I'm probably just going to ignore them, or say ((I'm OOC)) because I don't have time to deal with it. There were a whole variety of reasons why I didn't want to end that night arrested, but they don't really matter.

I would prefer if we didn't sort of nitpick the details and more focus on the overarching question. Because when people sort of call me out for stuff I did, I feel the need to defend myself, and the other person isn't here to defend themselves.

The overall question is really about what rights does a walk up RPer have, and what responsibilities do they have to the person they are walking up to. I'm a huge walk-up RPer, I know I've approached your character quite a few times R'ivke, and I'm sure I am guilty of many of the things we've talked about in this thread. I'd like for this to be more of a discussion of best practices and guidelines rather than nitpicking a specific situation.

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Seeking advice on dealing with conflict

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes