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(11-20-2015, 09:06 PM)Oli! Wrote:

(11-20-2015, 08:55 PM)Nero Wrote: Using modern swears in what is ostensibly a high fantasy setting is, to me, as wildly out of place as speaking early modern English in Star Wars. It's not that I mind profanity--anyone who's spoken to me on voice is probably aware that I swear more than most--but it's anachronistic and immersion breaking to me.

I'm certain that there are at least a few reasons with which to justify the usage, but it feels wrong and jarring to me.

I think we've already established that age is not the issue, considering that "modern" swear words have been around just as long as most of the rest of the language.

Personal Flavoring may be an issue, but age is not.

(11-20-2015, 11:00 PM)Nero Wrote:

(11-20-2015, 09:06 PM)Oli! Wrote:

(11-20-2015, 08:55 PM)Nero Wrote: Using modern swears in what is ostensibly a high fantasy setting is, to me, as wildly out of place as speaking early modern English in Star Wars. It's not that I mind profanity--anyone who's spoken to me on voice is probably aware that I swear more than most--but it's anachronistic and immersion breaking to me.

I'm certain that there are at least a few reasons with which to justify the usage, but it feels wrong and jarring to me.

I think we've already established that age is not the issue, considering that "modern" swear words have been around just as long as most of the rest of the language.

Personal Flavoring may be an issue, but age is not.

That is incredibly debatable as there is a marked difference between when a word was first used and when it can be said to have entered common parlance with a relatively consistent definition. It is one thing to say that "fuck" was first used in the 14th century, and another thing entirely to say that its usage could be considered as a common swear in the same time period.

"Fuck", to use it as an example, was commonly used to inappropriately refer to fornication from its inception. Its status as a "swear"--as an insulting word or adjective meant to offend or as an extreme expression--wasn't common until the mid-nineteenth century, so it can certainly be called anachronistic from certain points of view.

But I digress. To briefly reiterate on the topic, whether or not people use such swears is up to them, but I personally will never see appropriate reason or circumstance for myself to use language that feels markedly out of place.

(11-21-2015, 12:04 PM)Valence Wrote: On the subject of ilms, fulms, and all other confusing Eorzean metrics, do we have a list of them, and what they amount to exactly? 

Because well, since i'm born in the SI metric system, I find them as confusing as inches, feet and all other royal related measurement units...

(11-21-2015, 01:36 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Hmm. I just find it tacky, so I don't have any of my characters do it myself. The Eorzean curses given by various NPCs throughout the course of the game are more fun.

I also tend to judge characters' intelligence by how frequently they use the word 'fuck.' Sorry in advance, but I do, without even meaning to. The funny thing about it is IRL, among friends, I swear like a sailor.

(11-21-2015, 05:21 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: Not sure how I feel about the idea that if you curse you're ignorant is, as it does come up in my roleplay often enough and my personal life, but moving on from that little bit...

Linguistics are surprisingly interesting, especially in a world that has no defined history in that respect. There is no timeline really to base Eorzea on because it doesn't exist in reality, it's a creative world made up by the people who exist in it and it's framework which is created by people outside, who often don't think about the depth of roleplay that can happen.

While it's fine to say you don't enjoy it in the RP you participate in, to say it doesn't belong is like telling someone that they're playing make-believe wrong. We define the nature of language in this world in whatever we see fits our RP, yeah? So it has a place if someone chooses it has a place, I suppose.

(11-21-2015, 07:17 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Well, I never said "if you curse you're ignorant." As I said, among familiar company, I swear an absolute fuckton. (Ha.) But I'm also acutely aware of the "low-class crass" trope. More often than not, if every other word that comes out of a character's mouth is "fuck," they probably fit that description. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I've found that it's usually the player's intention in the first place. I simply think that the game has given us a number of colorful alternatives as well as templates for everyday Eorzean speech, and I find it far more immersive to use those.

Obviously, I don't go around telling people how to roleplay - ask Virella or Meyla,  as I've RPed with them on several occasions, and they both have characters who use "fuck" as if they were in a Tarantino film.

(11-21-2015, 07:17 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:

(11-21-2015, 05:21 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: Not sure how I feel about the idea that if you curse you're ignorant is, as it does come up in my roleplay often enough and my personal life, but moving on from that little bit...

Linguistics are surprisingly interesting, especially in a world that has no defined history in that respect.  There is no timeline really to base Eorzea on because it doesn't exist in reality, it's a creative world made up by the people who exist in it and it's framework which is created by people outside, who often don't think about the depth of roleplay that can happen.

While it's fine to say you don't enjoy it in the RP you participate in, to say it doesn't belong is like telling someone that they're playing make-believe wrong.  We define the nature of language in this world in whatever we see fits our RP, yeah?  So it has a place if someone chooses it has a place, I suppose.

Well, I never said "if you curse you're ignorant." As I said, among familiar company, I swear an absolute fuckton. (Ha.) But I'm also acutely aware of the "low-class crass" trope. More often than not, if every other word that comes out of a character's mouth is "fuck," they probably fit that description. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I've found that it's usually the player's intention in the first place. I simply think that the game has given us a number of colorful alternatives as well as more general templates for everyday Eorzean speech, and I find it far more immersive to actually use those.

Obviously, I don't go around telling people how to roleplay, or shun everyone who feels differently - ask Virella or Meyla,  as I've RPed with them on several occasions, and they both have characters who use "fuck" as if they were in a Tarantino film.

(11-21-2015, 05:21 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: While it's fine to say you don't enjoy it in the RP you participate in, to say it doesn't belong is like telling someone that they're playing make-believe wrong.  We define the nature of language in this world in whatever we see fits our RP, yeah?  So it has a place if someone chooses it has a place, I suppose.

(11-21-2015, 08:52 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: No worries, I didn't think it was a personal attack, it's just a weird thing to do by default to characters who curse, that's all.  You gotta do you in the end. <3

(11-22-2015, 12:12 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:

(11-21-2015, 05:21 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: While it's fine to say you don't enjoy it in the RP you participate in, to say it doesn't belong is like telling someone that they're playing make-believe wrong.  We define the nature of language in this world in whatever we see fits our RP, yeah?  So it has a place if someone chooses it has a place, I suppose.

So, I've gone and I've read...and re-read...what TheLastCandle posted, and the funny thing is...I can't seem to find anywhere in the post where he said, "it doesn't belong."  He said he personally finds it tacky (which is totally cool - peeps are entitled to their opinion).  He said that he finds the way NPCs string together cuss words (real or make-believe) to be more interesting (which, again, is totally cool - peeps are entitled to their opinion).  And he said that he subconsciously judges a character's intelligence by how much they're dropping the f-bomb (again - peeps be entitled to their opinion), which he finds kind of ironic and maybe hypocritcal considering his propensity to cuss like the scurviest pirate when he's among friends.

But you know what's not in his post?  Any suggestion that cussing doesn't belong, and any suggestion that he (TheLastCandle) has any right to tell anyone else how to play their character.

Crazy, I know.

(11-21-2015, 08:52 PM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: No worries, I didn't think it was a personal attack, it's just a weird thing to do by default to characters who curse, that's all.  You gotta do you in the end. <3

What's a weird thing?  To have an opinion about characters?  Because, I hate to tell you, but opinions are like assholes, and everyone has one about everyone else's characters, and the players behind them.  All the time.  Every time.  Because we're opinionated shits.

I guess I'm just not getting why you jumped on TheLastCandle for something he never said.  

(11-22-2015, 12:34 AM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: I didn't jump him that was to the thread in general in which people have repeatedly said it didn't belong? Or that they felt it didn't belong, and the thing about the opinion is that's fine, have it, but the statement of judging a character's intelligence based on how much they curse is silly -- strangely enough, and this is apparently one of those things that you want to beat into my head so I'll just refer you back to your comment on opinions.

You can have one, and someone's can differ, and they're allowed to say so.

Quote:That being said, the only one I think being jumped on here is me, by you.  This post felt aggressive; I meant no aggression towards TheLastCandle and I more or less told him I didn't think he was being an ass and I wasn't at all trying to be an ass to him, but... that's the internet for you, hard to understand tone through text.

Quote:feel free to come with a vengeance again,

Quote:ETA: My post saying: Not sure how I feel about the idea that if you curse you're ignorant is, as it does come up in my roleplay often enough and my personal life, [b]but moving on from that little bit...

(11-22-2015, 12:44 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:

(11-22-2015, 12:34 AM)Lyse Crofte Wrote: I didn't jump him that was to the thread in general in which people have repeatedly said it didn't belong? Or that they felt it didn't belong, and the thing about the opinion is that's fine, have it, but the statement of judging a character's intelligence based on how much they curse is silly -- strangely enough, and this is apparently one of those things that you want to beat into my head so I'll just refer you back to your comment on opinions.

You can have one, and someone's can differ, and they're allowed to say so.

Sure.  You just didn't make it clear at all that you were addressing the general thread and not TheLastCandle with regards to the "it didn't belong" line.  In fact, you quoted him, which really rather made it appear that it was directed at him.  When he pointed out that, hey, he actually didn't do that at all, you didn't even correct him to say, "Hey that's not what I meant."  Instead you said, "it's just a weird thing to do by default to characters who curse, that's all.  You gotta do you in the end."  Which, I mean, maybe I'm just crazy, but it still sounds like - in the context of the conversation that was going on - you were still claiming that he said it "doesn't belong."  Except he didn't.

This is why I was confused.  Thank you so much for clarifying on that.

Quote:That being said, the only one I think being jumped on here is me, by you.  This post felt aggressive; I meant no aggression towards TheLastCandle and I more or less told him I didn't think he was being an ass and I wasn't at all trying to be an ass to him, but... that's the internet for you, hard to understand tone through text.

If by "jumped on," you mean I'm pointing out that you accused someone of telling other people how to RP and said their RP "didn't belong," you're right!  I am, in fact, pointing out that TheLastCandle never actually said what you accused him of saying, and wondering why you would even say he was.  You've responding saying you didn't actually mean that (though you waited until I said something to actually provide that essential clarification), so hey thanks - that's solved.

Quote:feel free to come with a vengeance again,

That wasn't this, and I like Osric too much to pull that on days ending in y.  Most of the time.

Quote:ETA:  My post saying: Not sure how I feel about the idea that if you curse you're ignorant is, as it does come up in my roleplay often enough and my personal life, but moving on from that little bit...

This goes back to people being judgmental shits.  The human brain is wired to make snap judgments just like this, all the time, every day.  It's how we're wired.  Over time, we can recognize when we're making ridiculous judgments (kinda like when TheLastCandle said that he found his snap judgments a bit silly considering his own real life behavior), but the brain still kicks in and makes those snap judgments initially.