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Berrod Armstrong · **08-27-2015, 01:57 PM**

(08-27-2015, 12:14 PM)Korin Wrote:
(08-27-2015, 08:10 AM)ProvaDiServo Wrote:
(08-27-2015, 07:04 AM)Korin Wrote: But as a side note, one of my pet peeves is when people don't say hello when I greet them. ;; It's not that hard to say hi, is it? You're going to be spending the next 30 mins or so stuck in this dungeon with me! Say something, at least! *sobs*

I don't say hello back, I'm not really in duty finder to make friends.

I mean If I know you and recognize you I'll say "what's up" but otherwise nah.

I can understand people being in autopilot mode or whatever, but still...It can't hurt for some people to type...what, two letters? I don't get at them for it, because like I said - It's just a pet peeve! But when you're stood around in the entrance waiting for someone to load in/finish watching/skipping the opening cutscene/casting protect and whatnot...Eeeh. It doesn't take that much effort, right?

I suppose it just makes me feel a little sad. Most pug groups do bother to respond, so I guess I notice it more if I'm doing the entire dungeon in silence...Which isn't a problem in itself - Until people decide to vocalise, at last, when something hasn't gone their way. I find a little bit disappointing when people only really have bad things to contribute in that kind of situation.

Whether people speak in party or not doesn't make much of a difference to me in the end, I'll just keep stubbornly throwing my greetings at them regardless. I just feel like it makes it a bit easier to communicate later on - especially in a lowbie roulette - If something is going wrong. For me, at least!

I tend to give a friendly hello in an attempt to set a friendly, lighthearted tone for the run. For me, seeing someone else do the same helps me to relate to them as a player behind the toon and makes the run less of a chore. It makes the mess ups a lot more tolerable too. Hell, even when I mess something up I type a little acknowledgement or apology. "Whoops, my bad, I didn't get out of that AoE in time," Or "Oh man sorry, I was totally tunneling."Â

I've seen people complain when something goes wrong (myself included) at times, but how many of those people actually took the time to tell the group hello? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I dunno.

Spethah · **08-27-2015, 02:00 PM**

(08-27-2015, 07:04 AM)Korin Wrote: But as a side note, one of my pet peeves is when people don't say hello when I greet them. ;; It's not that hard to say hi, is it? You're going to be spending the next 30 mins or so stuck in this dungeon with me! Say something, at least! *sobs*

I don't talk to pugs in duty finder unless I have to explain mechanics. Why? Because it makes me less of a target when bad things happen, because most pugs don't yell at a brick wall. "But it's only 2 letters" means that I'm opening to conversation.Â

I'm not here to talk and be friendly.Â

I'm here to kick ass.

(Please note that it's not me being unfriendly and anti-social, I just prefer to get stuff done over having conversation. Plus I tend to mess up more when talking because I can't multi-task to even that degree. I don't care about the mood or atmosphere, saying nothing doesn't add or take away anything.)

FreelanceWizard · **08-27-2015, 02:31 PM**

(08-27-2015, 01:57 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: I tend to give a friendly hello in an attempt to set a friendly, lighthearted tone for the run. For me, seeing someone else do the same helps me to relate to them as a player behind the toon and makes the run less of a chore. It makes the mess ups a lot more tolerable too. Hell, even when I mess something up I type a little acknowledgement or apology. "Whoops, my bad, I didn't get out of that AoE in time," Or "Oh man sorry, I was totally tunneling."Â

I've seen people complain when something goes wrong (myself included) at times, but how many of those people actually took the time to tell the group hello? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, I dunno.

I'm with you on this. I always say, "Hi! Smile

" when the instance loads up, and always thank everyone for the group when we finish. If someone says they're new, or if the game says someone is new, I'll welcome them and offer to explain mechanics, and I'll congratulate them on their first run at the end. If I screw something up, I take responsibility for it. I also bite my tongue instead of getting provoked when people are butts -- but that's pretty rare in my experience. I've got a few horror stories (some on this very thread!), but they're really quite few. Usually, my DF runs range from "fun and silly with everyone cracking jokes" to "quietly professional."

Perhaps what I do annoys people who'd rather treat fellow players like NPCs, but I like to think that chatting makes the game more enjoyable. It's a multiplayer game, after all, and if a bad pun or shared annoyance (seriously, Neverreap Tongue

) can brighten someone's day, I think it's worth it.

Glacirus · **08-27-2015, 02:33 PM**

(08-27-2015, 02:00 PM)Spethah Wrote:
(08-27-2015, 07:04 AM)Korin Wrote: But as a side note, one of my pet peeves is when people don't say hello when I greet them. ;; It's not that hard to say hi, is it? You're going to be spending the next 30 mins or so stuck in this dungeon with me! Say something, at least! *sobs*

I don't talk to pugs in duty finder unless I have to explain mechanics. Why? Because it makes me less of a target when bad things happen, because most pugs don't yell at a brick wall. "But it's only 2 letters" means that I'm opening to conversation.Â

I'm not here to talk and be friendly.Â

I'm here to kick ass.

(Please note that it's not me being unfriendly and anti-social, I just prefer to get stuff done over having conversation. Plus I tend to mess up more when talking because I can't multi-task to even that degree. I don't care about the mood or atmosphere, saying nothing doesn't add or take away anything.)

As a healer, 100% the reason I don't open my mouth in PUGs. I get enough focus and hate from people who seem to think I should heal them when they're on the opposite end of the boss area and my spells don't reach. I don't want to draw extra attention to myself and get berated even more. I will say 'Hi' if everyone else in the group does (this way they don't go "O-holier-than-thou healer won't say hi? Jerk.") but after that, silence.

But like I said, even going silent people will bitch at me. Sunken Temple especially it seems. Every time I get Sunken Temple in roulette at least one person dies to Doom or the Wasps and bitches at me.

rainichan · **08-27-2015, 06:32 PM**

(08-27-2015, 07:04 AM)Korin Wrote:
(08-27-2015, 04:04 AM)rainichan Wrote: Â and then marks the tank as "Target to Ignore 1." I know exactly why they did it, and I couldn't care less about it. I kept up on what I was doing and didn't hear anything else. I wasn't just standing when I could be helping, but ultimately? Sorry, my comfort in how often the tank should be healed is priority. Every healer has a different comfort level, and sorry you don't like it? But don't be PA and just ">.>" and say nothing to me otherwise. Looked the dps up later and saw they had whm at 60, and went "Oh. No wonder." That's not the way you get people to do something you want, you ask first. It's probably why I'm not looking forward to actually leveling AST at this point despite wanting to.

tl;dr I don't like pugging if I can help it because on the off-chance I don't get some pretty fabulous people, they're Grade A Dicks that make me wish I could do dungeons by myself and get exp for it.

I've been there, and it's one of the reasons I don't like to pug as a healer. To be honest your entire post shouted out as a "hnngh I hear you loud and clear, this is EXACTLY why I don't like to pug". I levelled WHM on Raeth for a little while, for stoneskin (he kinda hit 30 and then stopped, though...) but occasionally my desire to at least do that daily roulette on those classes tends to drop and I just stop doing it. Queueing as a DPS just to get...say, Cutter's Cry, and then everyone immediately leaves? Not all that pleasant.

...

But as a side note, one of my pet peeves is when people don't say hello when I greet them. ;; It's not that hard to say hi, is it? You're going to be spending the next 30 mins or so stuck in this dungeon with me! Say something, at least! *sobs*

If I pug for leveling I'll go in as dps mainly because it's easier and I don't have too many issues. We did a high level roulette with a pug with me tanking, got Snowcloak. I think I only really had issues on the yeti boss, but that was mainly because spriggans are jerks. I still got the commend, but I'm really "D: oh god what if I screw up augh" when I tank. I'm not very confident yet.

Your side not though, I do usually try to say hello! If only because I want to kind of be friendly, and if that's all that's said the entire dungeon, eh, that's fine. I've had dungeons where people were really nice and everyone talked the entire time (I ran a Sohm Al where we had the nicest party, everyone was friendly and talking and if someone leveled up or got a piece of gear, the tank would always go "yay congrats! Big Grin

") other times it's silence but that's fine too. I know some people will actually dole out their commends if you actually say hello or hi or heya at the beginning.

Edgar · **08-29-2015, 06:22 PM**

I'm gonna paraphrase my rant from the chatroom, here, because you all need to hear it.

So, I just got through an instance where the sync'd dps could not fucking understand what "No Provoke" means. I'm at the final boss, Gyges the Great in Copperbell, so I try to aggro the bastard over to the first boulder so we can burn his ass, right? Why waste time on adds when we can skip the bastard?

Welp, my party was having none of it. The MNK and BLM and WHM refuse to stop attacking him and I get aggro ripped off instantly and can't get it back because all I have is savage blade and flash.

Yes I have Shield Toss, but that's irrelevant to the problem, which was regaining lost aggro. You simply do not Shield Toss a mob that's lost aggro. So I stand there flailing my aggro combo and flashing like a maniac the whole fight in desperation while the WHM decides to just healbot the idiot MNK who can't recognize that, when the boss is punching you, maybe you should hand over the damage to the guy who can actually take a punch?

And what do I get for my troubles? What's my reward as I leave the instance in a huff?

>[17:01](Anonymous) u had the LEAST ammount of aggro in that fight.

Fuck these people.

Their best critique of the tank who has no provoke and he must aggro, the fucking level 18 GLD with no Oaths, is "I'm gonna state the obvious and pretend you are at fault because you're the tank." I can't even say I'm not even mad, because I am, but rightfully so, as my apparent deal with the devil to get short queues requires I shepherd Hell's flock of raving psychos and idiots through a field of landmines and get whipped for it the whole time by the thankless morons.

You who I choose to keep anonymous, you assholes who made a simple run of Copperbell the worst thing in the world. To you I reserve the most heartfelt, sinister-sounding, pause-giving "Fuck you" I can muster. You all represent the worst things a Tank should not, from a moral/ethical standpoint, have to deal with, but does. I sincerely hope the next roulette each of you ends up in ends with all your asses being kicked within a few seconds. If it doesn't, there are people out there with a lot more patience than I, clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voJmOYyI-T0

Screw that, I found the guy to say it for me.

Gharen · **08-29-2015, 06:57 PM**

(08-29-2015, 06:22 PM)Edgar Wrote: so I try to aggro the bastard over to the first boulder so we can burn his ass, right?

This was your mistake. You don't need to move that boss anywhere to start, he'll do it on his own. The way threat works especially early game, if the tank doesn't establish agro early you -will- lose threat.

As DPS, If I manage to get the 1st couple of strikes on a mob before you do as the tank, your job just became that much more difficult. You'll spend the rest of your time fighting for hate or just scraping by.

Don't ever -expect- DPS to stop doing their thing just because you've lost hate, because they won't. Especially in a pugged group.

Artigan · **08-29-2015, 07:27 PM**

I think pugs in general are just going to be a flip of the coin: healers slow in response, pre-hotting, dpsing when they should be healing, running away from the tank when they pull hate. Dps pulling, getting over zealous, not maximizing their damage (positional attacks), screwing up rotations, not reacting to aoes or boss mechanics. Tanks not using their enmity building tools beyond their three hit combo, refusing to use defensive cooldowns, being an all around prima donna with a huge sense of entitlement. But the number one problem is communication: failing to listen, failing to take constructive criticism, and the foul shit that comes out of some people just shuts it all down.

I'm still absolutely shocked at how some people are really bad at tab target games. Is the issue poor hand/eye coordination? Perhaps terrible short term memory? Anxiety? Literally I would love to know how players fuck up dungeons (not first time raiders or stepping first time into an extreme) but dungeons of all things.

Kellach Woods · **08-29-2015, 08:58 PM**

The only good pug is a dog.

Remember that and all will be well.

Khoure · **08-29-2015, 09:55 PM**

the first time I did a group thing as a tank was that beginner guilhest with the goobooe and a few trash enemies. Since it was an easy guild hest, all was well in the end.

But the thing was, I hadn't even learned overpower yet. That's at lvl 12. And all the people started attacking different enemies at once. They must have been new too, because everyone's first instinct was to apparently kite like mad. I didn't have any choice but to chase them. So it was just all of us running in circles like a bunch of idiots. This was literally all I could hear playing in my head. Pop culture has taught me well.

Kurt S. · **08-29-2015, 10:24 PM**

Hah whenever I enter a PUG as a tank, there's always that little disclaimer that I'm horribad and we'll all die horribly.Â

Then we finish Fractal in 20mins without dying.Â

Sometimes people don't get the Dark Humor and leave or kick me but that's okay.

Still though, when you're left Machinist Tanking...it makes you realize...anything can be a tank if you're brave/smart enough. I mean it's totally not because the DRK not only did not have Darkside on but also Grit. And I'm a MACHINIST. A MACHINIST. HOW THE HELL DID I MANAGE TO SURPASS A NIN AND BECOME TANK FOR HALF THE RUN?!

Then there's my recent dusk vigil episode as a DRG wherein I learned that bloodbath and foresight and poledancing can keep me alive since the healer's on auto-pilot and barely paying attention while the PLD was busy using Sword Oath. WHY?!

Why is it that when I tank everything goes smoothly but when I don't tank...I still have to tank?!

I'nhalki · **08-29-2015, 11:25 PM**

After a few weeks of off-tanking Ravana and being super judgy of the healers who couldn't stay out of the way of the rotation I healed it last night and am never ever ever going to judge a healer in my head during the rotation phase. >_>;

Reposted from tumblr (couldn't find artist!)

[Image: gQGoUxJ.jpg]

Edgar · **08-30-2015, 01:50 AM**

(08-29-2015, 06:57 PM)Gharen Wrote:
(08-29-2015, 06:22 PM)Edgar Wrote: so I try to aggro the bastard over to the first boulder so we can burn his ass, right?

This was your mistake. You don't need to move that boss anywhere to start, he'll do it on his own. The way threat works especially early game, if the tank doesn't establish agro early you -will- lose threat.

As DPS, If I manage to get the 1st couple of strikes on a mob before you do as the tank, your job just became that much more difficult. You'll spend the rest of your time fighting for hate or just scraping by.

Don't ever -expect- DPS to stop doing their thing just because you've lost hate, because they won't. Especially in a pugged group.

It's a mistake by merit of not judging a pugged dps group properly. Because, by all means, these guys were giving me shit the whole instance. They couldn't even do the 2nd boss properly.

The thing is, before that, I was doing MRD because I had flash/overpower to keep hate with. I could have probably gained a massive amount of hate in that situation as MRD.

It's only now that I try and level PLD to get provoke afterwards and going through this shit that I understand that GLD is gated as fuck and pugs will make me their bitch.

Lesson learned.

I'm standing by this quote, though, as all Tanks can relate.

Quote:...My apparent deal with the devil to get short queues requires I shepherd Hell's flock of raving psychos and idiots through a field of landmines and get whipped for it the whole time by the thankless morons.

rainichan · **08-30-2015, 02:33 AM**

And that's pretty much why I refuse to pug as a tank. Someone else I follow on tumblr had issues in AV earlier while he ran as a tank.

Still, sorry to hear that. :\ That's the absolute worst.

Cato · **08-30-2015, 12:07 PM**

My experiences as a tank have generally been positive, even in random groups. I get the occasional bad group, yes, but it's not a constant issue. Though anybody considering a career as a tank - or a healer - needs to develop a thick skin if only to shield them whenever they do get a bad group.

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The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

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