Hydaelyn Role-Players

If Selsix is an achievement oriented gamer, and is going to have more fun starting on a server where everyone is level 1.  He'd have less fun on Balmung, because he wants to race to the top.  If the majority of the server is already 50, there's no race. 

Consider Diablo 2's ladder server-type.  It has been an enduring method of bringing people back to play that old game again and again for well over a decade.  How?  By kicking off every single character from it every x months.  That captures the attention of people who like a bit of competition, to clear difficulties first, to drop bosses first, and so on. 

Maybe you're asking why he's even on these forums, if that's why he wants to play FFXIV?  Well, maybe both styles of play are important to him?  They are for me.

There are a few people who actually resent Balmung, but I don't think there are any of them in this convo, to be honest.

(08-07-2013, 04:03 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: [ -> ] Ah but see it isn't a weird analogy because as I mentioned there are going to be roleplayers there whether or not we were there. and they will have to deal with the more trollish communities.
 
Don't believe me?
Say hello to the New Warriors
 

New Warriors... BAD BAD example. BAD. ~shakes head~ they ended up killing thousands and caused a civil war between heroes.

I'd also like to add that I've seen in your reddit topics posted absolutely NO reference to Balmung being an RP server. Basically making it seem that if you want RP, the ~ONLY~ spot to go is Gilgamesh.

Also @Selsix that bus was here for three years. People chose not to get on it. Please stop considering us at terrible people from putting time effort and care into the community just because this game is getting a revamp. We stuck around during the time when others did not and worked hard to create a community. I'd rather not see it kicked to the side because people think we're horrible for you know, actually PLAYING the game. In three years from now take a moment to look at yourself and think, hey we established a great RP community on Gilgamesh. What if someone came onto our section of the forums, bad mouthed us for playing three years and refused to play with us because of that.

It's too convenient to pick Gilgamesh, in Reddit's case, as most of them are headed there already.  That those of us on Gilgamesh are even going to interact with them may be completely coincidental.  

Ironically, if Reddit wasn't planning on going to Gilgamesh, the guys there who were seriously interested enough in RP to play on another server, may well have chosen Balmung.  But by going to Gilgamesh they get both communities and play styles.  Pretty clear motives, there.

Wow....so...I gotta say.  When I posted this (though it looks like it was merged with an older thread) I was not expecting 153 posts.  I'm seriously enjoying the passion that folks feel on the subject, though it wasn't my intention to spark a debate. 

It's discussions like these, though, that ultimately led to blurred lines between servers on other games.  We may eventually find that it wont matter which server we chose.

However from my perspective, one that is not emotionally involved (yet), I'm looking forward to playing a few months of a quality game with my friends, getting back into a deeper style of gaming, and rediscovering my love of Final Fantasy.  At least I hope.  So far so good   I think I can accomplish this on either server because I know folks like you will be there.

Choosing how to sync up with the larger community during end game?  Well....I suppose I'll slay that behemoth when I get to it.

(08-07-2013, 07:33 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]It's too convenient to pick Gilgamesh, in Reddit's case, as most of them are headed there already.  That those of us on Gilgamesh are even going to interact with them may be completely coincidental.  

Ironically, if Reddit wasn't planning on going to Gilgamesh, the guys there who were seriously interested enough in RP to play on another server, may well have chosen Balmung.  But by going to Gilgamesh they get both communities and play styles.  Pretty clear motives, there.

It won't matter. Eventually expansion material will render legacy vs non-legacy a moot point. Also, when you're talking about the people who are racing to the top, you are talking about a group of people who don't have the time to RP to begin with. Every waking moment they spend with their character consists of bull rushing content with zero regard for any of the flavor text or lore. Besides, you'll still be riding with a wave of people to the top given the game is brand new regardless of server.

(08-07-2013, 09:30 AM)Heinrich Foust Wrote: [ -> ]It won't matter. Eventually expansion material will render legacy vs non-legacy a moot point. Also, when you're talking about the people who are racing to the top, you are talking about a group of people who don't have the time to RP to begin with. Every waking moment they spend with their character consists of bull rushing content with zero regard for any of the flavor text or lore. Besides, you'll still be riding with a wave of people to the top given the game is brand new.

Just to sort of echo this since I think it's a fair point. If we're talking in terms of someone new seeking a strong early immersion experience, Balmung may be a better pick as Legacy players are already situated at a comfortable spot. Yes, they are ahead, they have money, they have levels. That also means, though, that they have time and focusing on rushing to 50 isn't something that's going to be something they are concerned about. We'll be doing endgame content, but the duty finder makes it so that isn't quite such a time sync anymore, since so much of the original endgame activities had to do with prep and getting a group together.

As a Legacy player, I have one (almost two) level 50 jobs. First things I'm doing are diving right back into the RP scene. I don't need to worry about levels right now, and can sorta relax a bit and focus more on things like RP. So from my point of view, I'm seeing it as an opportunity to take my time and do the fun things I really enjoy (RP).

(08-07-2013, 06:17 AM)Nel Celestine Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-07-2013, 04:03 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: [ -> ] Ah but see it isn't a weird analogy because as I mentioned there are going to be roleplayers there whether or not we were there. and they will have to deal with the more trollish communities.
 
Don't believe me?
Say hello to the New Warriors
 

New Warriors... BAD BAD example.  BAD.  ~shakes head~  they ended up killing thousands and caused a civil war between heroes.

I'd also like to add that I've seen in your reddit topics posted absolutely NO reference to Balmung being an RP server.  Basically making it seem that if you want RP, the ~ONLY~ spot to go is Gilgamesh.

Also @Selsix  that bus was here for three years.  People chose not to get on it.  Please stop considering us at terrible people from putting time effort and care into the community just because this game is getting a revamp.  We stuck around during the time when others did not and worked hard to create a community.  I'd rather not see it kicked to the side because people think we're horrible for you know, actually PLAYING the game.  In three years from now take a moment to look at yourself and think, hey we established a great RP community on Gilgamesh.  What if someone came onto our section of the forums, bad mouthed us for playing three years and refused to play with us because of that.

 I'd also like to add that I've seen in your reddit topics posted absolutely NO reference to Balmung being an RP server. Basically making it seem that if you want RP, the ~ONLY~ spot to go is Gilgamesh.
 
Its  a well known fact that much of Reddit is going to Gilgamesh aleady, so should I encourage them to leave their main group to go to Balmung? Not to mention there are mentions to this very site right on those links, this very site that you can see Balmung plastered in many mentions as the place to go. So please lets cut that out please.  I came in and told them hey there will be roleplaying on Gilgamesh if you guys are interested. Not because I am anti Balmung but because -many times- people here have said they do not want to roleplay with the Redditers around due to trolling and that is the reason why they are going to Balmung. So why would I guide them to a place where many here may not like them due to their Reddit affiliations? Surely you've seen these mentions. This very thread was started because of that concern. I seriously doubt that you haven't seen them. That is my -only- reason for mentioning roleplaying on Gilgamesh. If I really wanted to just push Gilgamesh as -the- only option I could just set up a website just for Gilgamesh roleplay and send them there.
 
I can gladly repost some of my posts asking for people to be nicer to them instead of stereotyping them here if you'd like.
 
Its no different than telling someone from an LGBT community to head to a place that people may be hostile to them if they found out that they were part of an LGBT group.  Why would I do that? One of your issues is the fact of splitting the rp community right? Isn't it a bit pot meets kettle to suggest that another community be split (especially to go to another place where ONCE again many have stated right here in this very thread that they would like to avoid them) from their original group?
 
I point to that poll again that's been circling the net that originated there. Most Redditers as we know are going to Gilgamesh. So, because of that many may be torn in leaving their community to go to Balmung. I came into the thread and said "hey, there will be rp on Gilgamesh if you guys are interested". And this is after someone gave the link to this site. So trust me I am sure many of them know that Balmung is there. And nothing is stopping you from going there to mention Balmung as a place to go.
 
But please don't assume. Once again I mention that I have friends going to Balmung,once again I mention that Balmung was my original server choice. Nobody is here to stop people from going to Balmung. But I am not going to tell someone to willingly walk into what may be a hostile environment either. Oh look someone had to hide their Reddit affiliation due to people contantly throwing them into the pot of trollish community status. (that sounds like a group in real life- whoa) You want to make it better? Then come in threads like these and remind those that are concerned by players from Reddit to not put everyone in the same boat because they have roleplayers too, let it be known that Redditers, 4chan and whoever else will be just as welcome on Balmung if they want to roleplay no matter who they are affiliated with. That should be your goal honestly.
 
No different from not putting all legacy players in the same boat either right?
 
Damn that pot meets kettle thing again!! 

The one point I find somewhat interesting is that the Admins and Mods for this website are Balmung Legacy players. The same non-inclusive, cliquish power lords who will crush your spirit and your role play by their mere presence are the ones hosting the forums that foster these very conversations and ensuring they don't turn into a hot mess that bullies either side, not to mention supporting the community split with forum structural changes to begin with . I read somewhere someone mentioning that these forums aren't named "Balmung Roleplayers Coalition", and that is exactly right...speaks volumes, doesn't it ?

It looks to me that at least on these forums its very easy for most people not to be in awe of the Balmung Legacy players here...people seem pretty ready to disregard or ignore them in general when their message isn't one that wants to be considered or heard, so I'm not sure how they would suddenly have a dominating presence in the grand scheme of things in Balmung role play. All, what...20 or 30 of them? Perhaps within their tiny hold-overs linkshells from 1.0, but look at the LS/FC listings for Balmung and see how many of them are brand new organizations...last count, I think I found most were. And even in those old organizations, almost all have opened their arms to new players, instead of being closed off and standing to the side only playing with themselves .

I'm sure there are sure a lot of reasons for wanting to go to Gilgamesh, but the thing against the Legacy player's supposed poor general attitudes, I'll never understand. I think actions do speak louder than words, in most cases, and in the case of the Legacy players who host and run this very site, we walk their figurative streets under extremely good graces, made to feel welcome and given tools to express ourselves and opinions, are left mostly to our own devices, and I see no reason why the way role play exposure to Legacy players on Balmung would be any different.

As a player also starting off fresh here in FFXIV, of all the various aspects of these arguments I continue to read, this is the only one I'm truly boggled at .

(08-07-2013, 12:49 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]Yet, I genuinely believe that, assuming Gilgamesh endures the inevitable tribulations of playing on Superfuntime Server, accepts and finds acceptance the ruffians and bros we'll be playing with to any meaningful extent, the resultant community will be robust and flexible, and have a different "tone" to offer prospective roleplayers.

Oh, I could see there being a different tone, if only because of how the community is being organized and executed there, and who is doing it.

I wouldn't go presuming from that that Balmung will end up being a server that is inflexible and set in its ways, whatever that may imply. I never really thought the other communities going to Gilgamesh would be a big deal to you guys in the first place. You probably won't be bothered by them often, if at all.

The issue of whether or not Redditors and such are going to Gilgamesh is something I would expect some of the folks going there to think about, if only because I do believe a lot of them left in the first place to avoid a middling number of people that they didn't like.

Well, there's no such thing as a perfect server.

(08-07-2013, 01:04 AM)Selsix Wrote: [ -> ]So after much research, (yes I am outting myself as a 4chan user).

Most of 4chan is actually going to Ultros. 4chan migration to Gilgamesh will be minimal at best.

Now please stop freaking out.

Source:
http://boards.4chan.org/vg/res/43842876

(I don't advise clicking this link if you are not 18+ as 4chan is not a youth friendly website. If someone has a problem with this link here please let me know and I will be more than happy to remove it.)

As a 4chan user, you'd probably be aware that /vg/ is one of the boards that doesn't allow explicit mature content, so you ARE safe to click that link.

I think people are still freaking out about the Redditors though, and about three or four other clashing communities. As if 4chan really is the worst place on the internet (for my money, that distinction goes to Tumblr).



EDIT:
This is an off-topic response to Rock Sandbourne's posts.

Isn't it a bit pot meets kettle to suggest that another community be split (especially to go to another place where ONCE again many have stated right here in this very thread that they would like to avoid them) from their original group?
 

That's Reddit's concern, not the RPC's. It sounds like (to me) that you're suggesting that you're packing up and going to Gilgamesh in order to reach out so that these roleplaying Redditors will have a RP community to enjoy on their own server. As honorable as that sounds...is it not a bit melodramatic? I'm an avid Redditor and I still had the ability to choose between the Reddit community and my other friends on Balmung. If they want to roleplay, they can definitely find roleplay. If not on their own server, then on a different one. It's the way it's always been, and I've never seen a problem with it in the past.

I'm not saying it's not a perk to Gilgamesh. But is it really a reason?

I'd also like to point out (and back up Teardrop) by saying that I don't see any of this cliquishness that keeps being referred back to. :/ In fact, I've never known for an entire RP community to be so horrid that it shuns new players. I've known guilds to be elitist, but those guilds have never been the poster child for roleplaying communities. Not to mention, Gilgamesh (or any other roleplaying server out there) won't be immune to elitist guilds.

All in all, people have the right to choose where they want to go. I suppose it just seems like most of the arguments for Gilgamesh have been arguments against Balmung. When in reality, I have yet to see any of these so-called problems that are apparently exclusive to Balmung roleplayers.

(08-07-2013, 09:30 AM)Heinrich Foust Wrote: [ -> ]It won't matter. Eventually expansion material will render legacy vs non-legacy a moot point. Also, when you're talking about the people who are racing to the top, you are talking about a group of people who don't have the time to RP to begin with. Every waking moment they spend with their character consists of bull rushing content with zero regard for any of the flavor text or lore. Besides, you'll still be riding with a wave of people to the top given the game is brand new regardless of server.

Uh, who put you in charge of how they play their game? 

What I mean by that is, let's assume two-hundred ninety-nine out of three hundred Reddit players are there to kill boss, get loot.  I have two questions to ask about that assumption, which can't be all that far off from the truth.

Question one is, so?  Let em' do what they find fun.  The time they spent popping back energy drinks, wiping on bosses, and screaming with rage over teamspeak, is every bit as valid and meaningful as how we spend our time.  (You didn't imply it wasn't, it's just something that makes me sound totally cool and balanced to say. ;3)

Question two is, what about that odd one out?  Have you been watching this thread closely?  Have you seen the link to Reddit dudes interested in RP?  Have you seen Rock talk about the Redditers who have contacted him about involving themselves in the community?  (Okay, that was quite a few questions.  The one at the top of this paragraph is the important one.)

Now, if the people question two regards suddenly realize they don't know the game well enough to write a character, I'll point em' to the wiki.  I don't care how they play their game, or if they dedicate a smaller amount of their time to RP than any of us.  They can come and go as they like.  That kind of attitude, I think, is how we'll win acceptance from that mess of a server.

Edit: whoa fast thread

(08-07-2013, 10:37 AM)Annaveil Wrote: [ -> ]All in all, people have the right to choose where they want to go. I suppose it just seems like most of the arguments for Gilgamesh have been arguments against Balmung. When in reality, I have yet to see any of these so-called problems that are apparently exclusive to Balmung roleplayers.

I don't think Balmung has any problems.  Yet the implication that people might be happier somewhere other than Balmung - such as myself - is rather hard to confront in any way that isn't unpleasant. 

Yet you can rest assured that, when I think about a new player considering both servers and deciding on Balmung, I think they will be pleased with their decision.  Those of us who can't resist the temptation to try to hammer out our own community are going to be just as pleased we decided to do so on Gilgamesh.(barring catastrophic failure, which isn't something I've ruled out).

I think we should all take a step back and consider that maybe both choices are immediately good for the kind of persons who make them, and that this can be true without any fundamental problems on either side of things.  Not everyone likes Apple pie, even if it's perfectly baked.

(08-07-2013, 10:40 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Balmung has any problems.  Yet the implication that people might be happier somewhere other than Balmung - such as myself - is rather hard to confront in any way that isn't unpleasant. 

Well, yeah. I mean...if you're leaving the server then there's definitely an implication there that says something is wrong or less than optimal. If it's as simple as "I would like to try to start a new roleplaying community on X server because I just want to" then that's a completely valid reason for wanting to pick up and move. Although it's likely going to be a reason that'd be frowned upon (splitting a small community up never sits well in anyone's eyes).

Buuuut, I'm reading all sorts of reasons for wanting to go to Gilgamesh. Everything from escaping cliques to starting fresh to reaching out to non-RPing communities. If you just want to start a community elsewhere because you want to start a community elsewhere, just say that. You don't need to justify it any more than that, in all honesty. Like I said, it may not make you the most popular kid on the block but eh. All this is doing is making it look as though Gilgamesh has some horrible problem with Balmung. A problem that no one really understands because, as you said, it doesn't exist.

That's the vibe I'm getting.

(08-07-2013, 10:37 AM)Annaveil Wrote: [ -> ]I'd also like to point out (and back up Teardrop) by saying that I don't see any of this cliquishness that keeps being referred back to. :/ In fact, I've never known for an entire RP community to be so horrid that it shuns new players. I've known guilds to be elitist, but those guilds have never been the poster child for roleplaying communities. Not to mention, Gilgamesh (or any other roleplaying server out there) won't be immune to elitist guilds.

All in all, people have the right to choose where they want to go. I suppose it just seems like most of the arguments for Gilgamesh have been arguments against Balmung. When in reality, I have yet to see any of these so-called problems that are apparently exclusive to Balmung roleplayers.

I have to agree with Annaveil. This is exactly how I feel.

I haven't played with folks from Balmung yet, but RPC stands as proof to me that Balmung isn't comprised entirely of exclusionary, elitist jerks. In fact, I've yet to see evidence to the contrary. Is this entire website just a pretty face?

I once did leave the Thorium Brotherhood RP server in WoW for a while because of some nasty rumors that were spread about me (I was a young and stupid roleplayer at the time). Though I only left Horde-side, and this was back when the community was about 20 people. I came back a few months later to a much larger community, with the people who scorned me being all but insignificant to the flow and progress of that community as a whole.

No server in any game I've ever been on has ever had enough bad people on it to discourage me from interacting with others on the entire server. You have a few bad eggs anywhere you go, and you just deal with that. You make a new guild when you want to make things fresh and give like-minded people a place to thrive. Splitting the community over three or more servers doesn't help anyone. It cuts each server off from valuable members, and pretty much encourages competition to "recruit" newcomers to this site.

RPC's staff, sorry to say, has encouraged that behavior by endorsing two servers. I know, I know--it's fair and good of them to be endorsing both popular server options. The "competition" was just bound to happen though, in this environment.

Again, I'm not knocking people who go to Gilgamesh for any reason, but if your reasons for going to Gilgamesh have to do with preconceptions of or bad experiences with Balmung players, then your choice seems pretty extreme to me.

Honestly, I find the idea of going to Gilgamesh to RP and progress with large Internet community populations more appealing than going there because Balmung roleplayers were mean to me.

That's Reddit's concern, not the RPC's. It sounds like (to me) that you're suggesting that you're packing up and going to Gilgamesh in order to reach out so that these roleplaying Redditors will have a RP community to enjoy on their own server. As honorable as that sounds...is it not a bit melodramatic?
 
 
I'll be honest It wasn't a reason until I spoke to people who were from that community in pms here, and in the game during beta 3 who wanted to stay there and wanted to try out rp. It wasn't a concern until the threads like this one that come up over and over again because people are concerned about having them around due to the possibility of trolling. Once all of these things started happening I did some research found the links and decided to add that to my reasons of going to Gilgamesh. I also made sure to let it be known that there are roleplayers that are going to be there, many who are trying it for the first time and as I mentioned in this thread who are going to be there trying out rp or roleplaying whether there are RPC members or not.
 
Before I got a pm from one particular person I was falling into that realm of stereotyping too, believing everything that was said here and to me in other places and honestly thinking about perhaps Leviathan being a better choice. Once I got that pm I did my own research and looked around, got those links and said to myself hmmm....they don't seem that bad you know and that was pretty much it and thus decided to give it a go on Gilgamesh and help get things started.

But was it my original reason for going there? Honestly no it wasn't. I just like the idea of starting in a new place with all new people and experiencing everything together for the first time .I think Balmung is in a good position honestly and will be just fine with plenty of seasoned rp vets like yourself that are going to be there.  This time around I'd like to try something different and the smaller rp community that will be on Gilgamesh at launch can certainly use things like rp events to help get it started. (I'm doing one myself and there are some other events happening by others headed to Gilgamesh).

So while perhaps its more Reddit's concern as a roleplayer I'm more interested in the roleplaying community as a whole no matter what server it is, whether its Balmung, Leviathan, Cactuar, Behemoth or wherever. If someone asked me to do an event for the rp community on any server where there is roleplaying I would in an instant, this includes Balmung so I don't consider myself to be an RPC man in the sense of server exclusivity. For me the RPC represents the rp community of FFXIV I don't buy into the whole server exclusive thing, never have. I buy into the roleplay exclusive thing and where there is roleplay I'll lay my head.

But anyway I think I'm done with this particular topic. See you all in game!

(08-07-2013, 11:04 AM)Rock Sandbourn Wrote: [ -> ]I'll be honest It wasn't a reason until I spoke to people who were from that community in pms here, and in the game during beta 3 who wanted to stay there and wanted to try out rp. It wasn't a concern until the threads like this one that come up over and over again because people are concerned about having them around due to the possibility of trolling. Once all of these things started happening I did some research found the links and decided to add that to my reasons of going to Gilgamesh. I also made sure to let it be known that there are roleplayers that are going to be there, many who are trying it for the first time and as I mentioned in this thread who are going to be there trying out rp or roleplaying whether there are RPC members or not.

Before I got a pm from one particular person I was falling into that realm of stereotyping too, believing everything that was said here and to me in other places and honestly thinking about perhaps Leviathan being a better choice. Once I got that pm I did my own research and looked around, got those links and said to myself hmmm....they don't seem that bad you know and that was pretty much it and thus decided to give it a go on Gilgamesh and help get things started.

lol You're much more of a communal service type of person than I am then. As much as I love Reddit, I don't think I'd ever leave an established and hardcore roleplaying community to cater to a minority of casual roleplayers on another server. Simply because my playstyle leans more towards Balmung.

Like I said before. If you want to deliver roleplay to their door, that's very noble of you but...it still seems a bit silly to me. And I'm sorry if that opinion is insulting to anyone, but I can't think of another word to describe it lol. Redditors have the ability to make their own choices, like everyone else. Do they want to play with Reddit friends or do they want to roleplay in an established, heavy roleplaying environment? There's absolutely nothing wrong with making them make that choice. It would be great if we had a big enough community to put a large number of roleplayers on every server that wanted them...the sad fact of the matter is that roleplaying communities usually aren't that big. :/