Hydaelyn Role-Players

Don't read this as an attempt to convince Gil players to come to Balmung.

It's not, I'm done trying to convince Gil players of that.

Instead, consider this a post of enlightenment. No matter how often it's been said, no matter how much the Balmung players make it known and act on it, there is this.. -BELIEF-, this.. Idea, this.. Misconception.

Selsix put it in the best way. She described the Balmung server as a bus that may or may not stop to pick her up.

You know what that says to me? That she sees us a server she can't fit in to. That we're full, that we don't want to pick her up and welcome her in.

WTF have we been saying? The -exact opposite- of that. We want to pick her up. All the RPers. Everywhere. We want to pick them all up, and welcome them in.

That's WHY this argument is here.. I, and I'm sure it's a deeprooted thing for other Balmung players that continue the debate, feel like some of the Gil players are calling us a lot of things we're not. Closeminded, unwelcoming, elitist, being some of those. 

I mean.. We'd welcome the RPers from the Reddit community. They RP? Cool! We'd love to have them. Would we welcome to Reddit community as a whole? Probably not, no.. Well, I can't speak for the whole on that one. I wouldn't particularly like the entire reddit community coming over, but I'd love to see the RPers coming. I think they should have the option, I think it should be made known they have options - Niether of which is any less welcoming. 

I mean.. I don't know how many times we have to say it. We are, literally, laying at non-Balmung players feets, saying "Hey, how much more welcoming can we be?"

I could go back into how the 50's and such shouldn't affect anyones game, but.. That's a fact that should be known by now too. The fact that content will make high-levels the same level as the low-levels to do it. The fact that a lot of the high levels will be rerolling low level alts to play the content, so the high levels existence doesn't even really matter untill others get up there as well. The fact that it'll be a week or two before there are 50's on every server out there. 

-sigh-

Now I think we're getting somewhere, Anna.  Building on the premise that there's essentially no nice way of saying, "I'm taking my toys and going to that other kid's house, see ya!", imagine for a moment that many of the people you see trying to justify their move to Gilgamesh are sounding so standoffish because they can't think of a way to say why they're doing what they're doing that comes out sounding nice.

Consider my thread on the official forums.  I like to think I'm level-headed and eloquent, but it was a complete disaster, from the perspective of attracting attention and garnering excitement without alienating Balmung players.  What I wrote was read by prospective Gilgamesh players as I had intended it, and read by career Balmung players as something way more malevolent than intended.

A good case example of the problem we're faced with.  It is easy to say write one thing and have it read as another.  This isn't anyone's fault, unless you were to blame the human species in its entirety.

(08-07-2013, 11:13 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]Now I think we're getting somewhere, Anna.  Building on the premise that there's essentially no nice way of saying, "I'm taking my toys and going to that other kid's house, see ya!", imagine for a moment that many of the people you see trying to justify their move to Gilgamesh are sounding so standoffish because they can't think of a way to say why they're doing what they're doing that comes out sounding nice

Consider my thread on the official forums.  I like to think I'm level-headed and eloquent, but it was a complete disaster, from the perspective of attracting attention and garnering excitement without alienating Balmung players.  What I wrote was read by prospective Gilgamesh players as I had intended it, and read by career Balmung players as something way more malevolent than intended.

A good case example of the problem we're faced with.  It is easy to say write one thing and have it read as another.  This isn't anyone's fault, unless you were to blame the human species in its entirety.

I think that everyone is more than willing to accept the fact that people should have (and what's more, they DO have) the right to choose what server to go to. Straight up. If people want to go to Gilgamesh, please! By all means, go. I have no hard feelings towards Gilgamesh. I'm a little sad to see the community split up, but I have a feeling it'll survive.

I think the reason this thread has gone on for 12 pages is because, as you said, Gilgamesh people have been scrambling to come up with reasons that they think are more justifiable than "I just want to do it this way". The easiest way to do that is to say "Well. I have problems with Balmung." Obviously, Balmung people are going to ask what those problems are. And then we have people fumbling around and being defensive and things just snowball from there.

TL;DR: Just be honest. Even if your choice makes you unpopular to some people. Nobody will care in two weeks, lol.

(08-07-2013, 11:13 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]Now I think we're getting somewhere, Anna.  Building on the premise that there's essentially no nice way of saying, "I'm taking my toys and going to that other kid's house, see ya!", imagine for a moment that many of the people you see trying to justify their move to Gilgamesh are sounding so standoffish because they can't think of a way to say why they're doing what they're doing that comes out sounding nice.

Consider my thread on the official forums.  I like to think I'm level-headed and eloquent, but it was a complete disaster, from the perspective of attracting attention and garnering excitement without alienating Balmung players.  What I wrote was read by prospective Gilgamesh players as I had intended it, and read by career Balmung players as something way more malevolent than intended.

A good case example of the problem we're faced with.  It is easy to say write one thing and have it read as another.  This isn't anyone's fault, unless you were to blame the human species in its entirety.

Um... why would any of us care if someone chose to go to Gilgamesh or Balmung? Unless I have some sort of personal relationship with the person in question, I really don't care. I don't even know you...

If anything, this entire thread seems like a troll post to me.

(08-07-2013, 11:25 AM)Heinrich Foust Wrote: [ -> ]Um... why would any of us care if someone chose to go to Gilgamesh or Balmung? Unless I have some sort of personal relationship with the person in question, I really don't care. I don't even know you...

To be fair, that is the centerpiece of most of the Balmung group's part of this discussion. At least such has been my understanding. They -DON'T- know all these new people and WANT to welcome them and get to know them and RP with them.

Even in some of the ruder (or passionate, depending on how you read it) posts, that's been why they wanted all the RP'ers on Balmung. For the opportunity to add more folks to the whole (which in itself is a welcoming statement on it's own so that debunks the 'elitist' and 'unwelcoming' commentary on Balmung's players).

Regarding things on the whole? People should play where they want, seriously. It's that simple. No one can 'make' anyone play anywhere and at the end of the day no one has to justify it either. I, however, do hope that the 'competition' dies down so that the undertone of 'hey, come to my server' stops spilling into other threads and people can somehow figure out how to co-exist. Wasn't that why the extra sub-forums were added? And yet the back and forth somehow continues to persist.

We're all roleplayers. We're all the minority in just about any MMO we go to. I'm not sure why that in itself isn't enough for people to just get along civilly, regardless of server choice. The last thing anyone wants to do, I'd think, is turn the RPC into the kind of "environment" for roleplayers that was GW2.

@Kaln,

Not to speak for everyone, but I'd welcome any person or group that came to my server, and let them prove through their actions after that what manner they want to approach me and mine with.

Preconceptions and misconceptions are what started this, Kaln. Saying Balmung doesn't live up to the negative reputation and then speculating that they would be unwelcoming to the Reddit community implies that there are preconceptions coloring the perspective Balmung players have of non-RPing Redditors as a whole. And that's probably unfair to the individuals.

Also, that's like saying you're against cliquishness and then promising to ban cliquish people from your community resources. It's a bit contradictory.

(08-07-2013, 11:38 AM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: [ -> ]@Kaln,

Preconceptions and misconceptions are what started this, Kaln. Saying Balmung doesn't live up to the negative reputation and then speculating that they would be unwelcoming to the Reddit community implies that there are preconceptions coloring the perspective Balmung players have of non-RPing Redditors as a whole. And that's probably unfair to the individuals.

I purposefully said I wasn't speaking for the community, on this.

Just myself. And, that mainly ties back to something I posted in another thread.. OR this one. I forget. Something about me being an ol', jaded RPer. Doesn't change the fact that I'd welcome anyone who RP's, or doesn't interfere with RPers.

Well it seem this thread is high on hate and love. 

First off to the new role players out there reading this thread (you maybe like me reading this with a sour face as you read some of the comments) don't base your choice on a sever on here say and what ifs. Both severs have great people which are close to gather. Most of use chat on skype ranging from events to any thing. All so both of the community's are to tight to let some trollers or haters mess up every thing we are building.

Two to simply say who has best rpers and the worst is just silly! You have no clue who is good at role playing and who is not till you role play with them. That said there is a lot different styles of role playing which im sure we will see once the game goes up.

Three please don't hate on people you don't know or a sever community when you don't have clue who you may hurting from it. All so it makes look bad as a person....

I' basing my comments on all the comments on this thread and not at just hand full of people

(08-07-2013, 11:45 AM)Vashies Alexander Wrote: [ -> ]Two to simply say who has best rpers and the worst is just silly! You have no clue who is good at role playing and who is not till you role play with them. That said there is a lot different styles of role playing which im sure we will see once the game goes up.

This is not a thing that was happening.

Your other two points were points others here have been trying to make. For the most part I think this thread is headed in a less heated direction than it was yesterday, as folks calm down and focus on the heart of the issues.

I am basing this reply on all the comments in this thread and not just a handful of posts.

(08-07-2013, 10:17 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: [ -> ]Not because I am anti Balmung but because -many times- people here have said they do not want to roleplay with the Redditers around due to trolling and that is the reason why they are going to Balmung. So why would I guide them to a place where many here may not like them due to their Reddit affiliations?

As a representative of the RP community as a whole, you need to represent the community AS A WHOLE. Both Balmung and Gilgamesh.

(08-07-2013, 10:17 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't it a bit pot meets kettle to suggest that another community be split (especially to go to another place where ONCE again many have stated right here in this very thread that they would like to avoid them) from their original group?

I point to that poll again that's been circling the net that originated there. Most Redditers as we know are going to Gilgamesh. So, because of that many may be torn in leaving their community to go to Balmung. I came into the thread and said "hey, there will be rp on Gilgamesh if you guys are interested". And this is after someone gave the link to this site. So trust me I am sure many of them know that Balmung is there. And nothing is stopping you from going there to mention Balmung as a place to go.

Gilgamesh has already split this community in twain. Discretely not mentioning the original RP server merely comes across as self serving your own invested interests.
 
As for me having to make a Reddit account, learn to use the site, find all these RP posts and correct them because you and other Gilgamesh members simply chose to purposely leave out two words "and Balmung" seems a bit snobbish but I guess I have to now seeing how I have been and will continue to be a community representative for the RPC.

(08-07-2013, 10:17 AM)Rock Sandbourne Wrote: [ -> ]But please don't assume. Once again I mention that I have friends going to Balmung,once again I mention that Balmung was my original server choice. Nobody is here to stop people from going to Balmung. But I am not going to tell someone to willingly walk into what may be a hostile environment either. Oh look someone had to hide their Reddit affiliation due to people contantly throwing them into the pot of trollish community status. (that sounds like a group in real life- whoa) You want to make it better? Then come in threads like these and remind those that are concerned by players from Reddit to not put everyone in the same boat because they have roleplayers too, let it be known that Redditers, 4chan and whoever else will be just as welcome on Balmung if they want to roleplay no matter who they are affiliated with. That should be your goal honestly.

Once again, seems like you want me to clean up your actions because you rather not. I have been NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but supportive of Gilgamesh and the community as a whole. I only ever asked was for reasons why they chose not to play Balmung. The responses were vague, misleading or down right misinformation and lies. As we try to address those, we are considered elitist, pecking (whatever the hell that means) and exclusive when we have been nothing of the sort.

The game isn't even out yet, new players haven't had a chance to get to know Balmung players outside this forum and the CONSTANT rehashing of this is getting tiring. I've tried saying my peace once already a few pages back but I keep getting drawn in trying to correct these blatant oversights, misinformation or down right hate on myself and other Balmung players. In addition, abusing the Bold, Italics and Underscore options detracts from your post.

(08-07-2013, 07:33 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]It's too convenient to pick Gilgamesh, in Reddit's case, as most of them are headed there already. That those of us on Gilgamesh are even going to interact with them may be completely coincidental.

Too convenient to include "and Balmung" when mentioning Gilgamesh as an RP server on the Reddit? I'm all for supporting, as you have seen ESPECIALLY in my welcome to the RPC video. But from the way this was worded I could have just as well not included Gilgamesh as it would have been "too convenient to include a secondary server"



To Everyone else, Gilgameshians and Balmungians:

Enough is enough.

We are a community. Start acting like it and stop acting like a bunch of middle school students. We are invested into Role Playing as a group. If Balmung goes one way and Gilgamesh goes the other, SO BE IT. But stop FIGHTING about it. STOP LOOKING FOR A FIGHT! STOP TEARING EACH OTHER APART! You are all old enough to know better!

I've tried to keep my opinion mostly under wraps, but I feel it's probably high time I explain it at least through an admin perspective. I know some have questioned the decision to "allow" this split to go on. So let me explain as best as possible. I'll leave my personal opinion and predictions out of this, in order to ensure they don't influence anything in a bad way. Though if you want my personal opinion (which I had already typed out xD ), I have no qualms sharing it in PMs. However, for this, I'm only going to post an administrative perspective and explain why the RPC is on the path it is now.

When one removes emotion from the situation, there are only two logical outcomes to this split. Either the Gilgamesh RP community succeeds, or it doesn't succeed. That's it. There's no other outcome. Balmung will remain largely unaffected as a whole. The number of current RP shells there are equal to the number that started out in 1.0. And with the game being in a far better state, the number of those shells to be retained stands to be higher this go around. This is not Balmung's game to lose, as it stands to lose practically nothing as a whole. The ONLY threat to Balmung is Square-Enix themselves if they were to pull a douche move and proclaim some other server as the official RP server. That's it. There is no other threat to Balmung's future.

That said, there are two options an administrator could take in this issue.

Option 1: Proclaim the site as Balmung-centric only and essentially tell people who want to go elsewhere to take a hike. Doing this would keep the RPC united on Balmung, but it would also create a devastating division within the overall community. If one thinks the "competition" between servers is bad now, I assure you it could be 5 times worse. Imagine a 2nd RPC forming and horrible proxy wars being fought on other sites ("We're the TRUE RPC!" "No, we are!!"). Kind of sounds like more of a headache, don't you think? Assuming the other server community doesn't succeed, it'll also seal their fate in never returning to a community that was so intolerant of them, thus negatively impacting the entire Rp community as a result. On the other hand, if the community succeeds, the escalated competition and and jaded anger will last for years to come. Lose-lose situation for everyone regardless of whether the server succeeds or not.

Option 2: Support the "division" and keep everyone at least semi-united for the time being. In this manner, the RPC itself remains united without having to deal with the headache of a competing community. While the two servers may still be seen as "competing" in some ways, it's a very different scenario when said competition is WITHIN the RPC and thus slightly easier to control. In the event that the other server community fails, the chances of them reuniting under one server banner increases exponentially with this option, as they remember that they were supported from the start and will be less likely to hold grudges. In the event that the other server community succeeds, the competition may continue to some degree, but again, it'll still be in a more controlled environment and future forum rules can easily be implemented to stifle that competition to some extent.

Logically speaking, option two is the smartest option to take. And I wish those thinking purely on their emotions could see that. And that's the option that was thus taken.

With that said, I want to leave a message to both Balmung and Gilgamesh communities.

To Balmung: While many of you may despise this split, know that there's nothing any of us can do to stop it. Even if I did choose Option 1, it wouldn't stop it. It would only escalate the issue further. We've already seen this with a particular linkshell that has forever abandoned the RPC because of when this issue first came about months ago. So I advise you all to step back and stop arguing. You will not change anyone's mind. Balmung's only role here should be to remain supportive and ensure that misinformation is corrected as needed (such as the false belief that non-legacy people can't join legacy servers). Continuing to argue about servers is not only FAILING, but it's pushing people further away. Should the Gilgamesh RP community not succeed in their goals, we should be there with open arms to console them and be willing to take them in at a moment's notice. We should NOT give them "I told you so" comments or anything of the like. Should they succeed? Then we should congratulate them and give them kudos for doing something that was perceived as nigh impossible. Any future issues with "competition?" We'll cross that road when/if we get there.

To Gilgamesh: While the odds are stacked heavily against you, you remain unwavering in your current path. The risks have all been laid out. And no amount of debate will change anything it seems. So the best of luck in your endeavor and know that the RPC will remain supportive of you as needed. But please do try to exercise your "Gilgamesh pride" carefully. Know that the issue is still very contentious and any remark can easily offend those in Balmung. If Gilgamesh succeeds as a RP community, you should also refrain from "I told you so" in the same manner that Balmung should if the opposite were to happen. Also know that if your endeavor doesn't work out, Balmung will always be here no matter what. Which leads me to a very serious question that I hope you consider as such: IF, hypothetically speaking, the plan to establish a long-term RP community on Gilgamesh doesn't work out, what would you actually do? You don't have to answer this with a response. Just think about it in the back of your mind. Would you quit the game forever and move on to another? Would you focus more on the game itself moreso than RP? Or would you actually consider reuniting on Balmung to continue your RP?

I'd rather avoid locking this thread. So instead, I'll encourage everyone to just stop posting. Hopefully that request will be respected. The only ones who should be posting on this thread any longer should be new people who may have questions that need clarified. The rest of you old folks are just chasing your tails endlessly with no hope of persuading the other party. So just...stop? Stop trying to get the last word in, all of you.

(08-07-2013, 01:43 PM)Nel Celestine Wrote: [ -> ]To Everyone else, Gilgameshians and Balmungians:

Enough is enough.

We are a community.  Start acting like it and stop acting like a bunch of middle school students.  We are invested into Role Playing as a group.  If Balmung goes one way and Gilgamesh goes the other, SO BE IT.  But stop FIGHTING about it.  STOP LOOKING FOR A FIGHT!  STOP TEARING EACH OTHER APART!  You are all old enough to know better!

It seems as though you want the fighting to cease. Well, I can tell you that no matter how large the lettering you use, this comes across as very hostile in my honest opinion. And yes opinions are like...well Im sure you know the rest.

When you type something in all caps it usually means that you are yelling at your audience. Yelling will get you nowhere if you truly aim to make a point. May I suggest a bit more control on the capital lettering?

~Just my two Gil

I think she's 'yelling' because the guy's basically saying 'I go around acting like my server is the only option and if you want to fix it you should join this website and follow me around adding 'and Balmung is also a server to RP on', but I'm going to keep acting like you're the one freezing people out'.

Like if you're going to get upset about caps can we be real about what caused them?

Wow... reading some of this made my head spin. I wish there was an appropriate smiley to express this. Oh wait, got it: 


It seems some perspective is needed here, for all sides of this "conflict." I can't believe there is so much time and energy to argue over something that's just a hobby. Pick your preferred name of server, community, linkshell, friends to play with... and just do it. Step away if it gets to be too serious, go for a walk, enjoy RL, center yourself. That's the only insight I can offer. All of these back and forth internet debates seem silly IMO. There are more important things.

I've not read the entire discussion and I am a new member, so I wouldn't say I've really established myself here. Anyhow, what attracted me to RPC was the it seemed like a really friendly community of roleplayers. I signed up because I felt I could meet like-minded folk and I have. I can see the arguments for and against having 2 servers. Personally I ended up selecting Gilgamesh and I don't think I'll regret the decision. I'm going to do my best to support its growth.

I think what has been a bit of a turn off has been the in-fighting. People have been concerned about Reddit and 4 Chan users causing grief, they are legitimate concerns, griefers can spoil people's fun. But the irony is that without even having spoken to the community, it seems to already have caused grief. I think RPC is a fantastic community and if people are arguing and creating divides slowly, then it's just weakening the community. In my opinion, the more role players here, the better (more people to roleplay with). Yes, there are 2 servers for a community, personally I've always favoured choice and I am glad I've been able to weigh my choices between Balmung and Gilgamesh. Granted we could sit here all day arguing the advantages and disadvantages. But it is what it is. My aim in joining this community was to avoid some of the grief you can get in MMOs, people have a habit of arguing and falling out. I will remain uninvolved with any fighting.

You guys are a decent friendly bunch in general - at least you come off that way - I'm sure folks would like to keep it that way. We're all here to have fun and RP the crap out of this game.

Make love, not Warcraft and given this isn't Warcraft, you have no choice but to make love. I mean, how else am I going to get any action playing an MMO?


Anyhow, this captain's got some rum, who wants some?