Hydaelyn Role-Players

(08-06-2013, 05:49 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]This site isn't Balmung-roleplayers.com, and the intent of the good folks who run the place is clearly to facilitate and unite.  If you want to talk about division, then you need to look no further than your idea of withdrawing official support for Gilgamesh.  You do that and we're off to make our own website. 

This is my final statement on this issue. After this, I'm burnt out and done and won't be discussing this anymore as I have done everything I can to attempt to bridge a gap between these two communities and feel like I'm being slapped in the face from time to time. Three years ago, before 1.0 went live, there was a server vote then to unite RP onto a single server. Now for 2.0 (A RE-LAUNCH! NOT A NEW GAME) we have a split for a new server because of this pointless Anti-Legacy crap from the Beta forums.

What will happen next? When an expansion comes out and new players join, will we hold a poll for a third server so they can have a "Fresh Start" too? Should we constantly change servers each time a new voice pops in and says "I wasn't here for that vote!" ?

There needs to be a limit on this argument and insanity before it gets anymore out of hand.

WE ALL WANT RP TO SUCCEED.

We tried being inclusive to Balmung when things first started and were met with nothing but resistances and statements like the one here. So my question to you is this, in a Month or two, once your server has done "Trail Blazing" content (which will more then likely be using stats from end game shells focused from those in 1.0 with all level 50s that this Legacy hate seems to point and yell at) will you be server transferring to Balmung and joining the community again? Will this be a constant pissing contest between whose server is the "True" RP server?

I'm sick of it.

I want to play the game with my current friends and meet new friends. Not bicker and argue anymore. I have tried, time and again. To be welcoming, inclusive and accepting. I made the "I Remember" video series to show that Legacy players are not this hated vile thing some of you point at us as. I have no idea what is left to do to make you all feel welcome short of deleting my account from XIV and walking away because EVERY GOD DAMN THING I DO TO HELP HAS BEEN SLAPPED AWAY OR IGNORED and NO ONE is explaining why other then "We don't want to play on a legacy server because we don't want to play on a legacy server" which makes ZERO logical sense to me.


I'm done on this topic. If this looses me subscribers for my channel I'll accept that, but I'm going insane trying to see logic where there isn't any.

~Nel

Nel I for one enjoyed your video's and appreciate the effort put in creating them, just thought I would say that.

I have posted previously on this thread and I will say it again, we as RP'ers are going to be in a minority in whatever game or server we play on we need to unite and be welcoming to one another, this whole pissing contest about server choice is just getting people frustrated and bitter before the game is even released.

Now I do not know about all of you but I have been frequenting these forums less because of all the acidic rhetoric and that is a shame because I believe this site is a great resource.  I hold no ill will to any player here I know noone and have no axe to grind but this pecking at one another is doing damage that will take months to fix if it can be fixed at all.

This bickering is a terrible distraction which should be a great time for us as the ARR draws closer, we should be sharing in each others excitement not tearing strips from those around us.

Now my post is rather negative and that is not my way, I believe once the game is released this "issue" will fade away as we all play the game and immerse our characters into every facet of Eorzea but the damage that is being done will still be there in the shadows.

Please just let this topic go still, let it fall from the top of the page and let us all pull together as a community and see what the future hold's.....together!

Nel, there's something I've been trying to hint at, that's hard to get right out in the open without stepping on anybody's toes.  It isn't all about legacy vs non legacy, 50 vs non 50.  There's another strong element here, something closer to the want of a fresh start on a social level, not merely a game mechanic one. 

When the trailblazing is done, and everyone is more or less on the same page, progression wise, we'll have two peacefully coexisting communities with their own attitudes and "flavors" to choose from.  I say this with a bit of certainty because I suspect Gilgamesh cannot survive operating as Balmung does.  The server (Gilgamesh) is simply too hostile and eager to take a bite out of us.  The Gilgamesh RPgoal is, to many people (myself included) a hybrid community that basically anyone can be a part of, at any level of roleplaying skill or interest.  That means Reddit, Blue Gartr, and any volatile internet community that traditionally spends inordinate lengths of time trying to spoil roleplay for laughs - Gilgamesh's RP crew is going to have to integrate all of them, even while they're crashing our events.  If Gilga RP accomplishes this, we will end up with a very different communal attitude - laid back, amused and amusing, and - dare I describe it this way - something closer to RP for bros.

That can't work on Balmung, yet it is what many of us Gilgies want.  I know you want a united community with maximum interaction, which is an absolutely noble goal, but there are fundamental differences of psychology at work here which cannot simply be ignored away.  A split of some sort is unavoidable, and it's no one's fault.

Don't worry about losing subs. People like you, they like your videos, and you haven't said or done anything that will offend anyone. You made your feelings known perfectly - and I think you deserve a +1 rep for it.

Hey, you guys played Tactics Ogre, by any chance?  Classic order/chaos branching path, am I right?

(08-06-2013, 07:51 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]When the trailblazing is done, and everyone is more or less on the same page, progression wise, we'll have two peacefully coexisting communities with their own attitudes and "flavors" to choose from.  I say this with a bit of certainty because I suspect Gilgamesh cannot survive operating as Balmung does.  The server (Gilgamesh) is simply too hostile and eager to take a bite out of us.  The Gilgamesh RPgoal is, to many people (myself included) a hybrid community that basically anyone can be a part of, at any level of roleplaying skill or interest.  That means Reddit, Blue Gartr, and any volatile internet community that traditionally spends inordinate lengths of time trying to spoil roleplay for laughs - Gilgamesh's RP crew is going to have to integrate all of them, even while they're crashing our events.  If Gilga RP accomplishes this, we will end up with a very different communal attitude - laid back, amused and amusing, and - dare I describe it this way - something closer to RP for bros.

This is a very noble goal, and one that I tip my hat to all of you for striving for. I also, however, feel like this is a distinction that may be a very strong deciding factor for people. I, for one, do not want a server where RP becomes LOL!RP. I know that's not what you meant, but I feel like you are taking on the sacrifice of true quality story-driving RP so that people can get a better impression of RPers than we might have right now. Again, very noble. Just not something I can do. And it may not be something other people can do. I don't know. Then again, maybe some people don't see it as a sacrifice. Maybe it'll turn out that Gilgamesh is the "tavern RP" server. And some people thrive on that. As someone who doesn't, I'm glad that distinction is being made, though, because it is directing me away from Gilgamesh. If it turns out that this IS all about different RP styles, then kudos! I guess we'll just have to find out.

The Facets of Eorzea are on Gilgamesh, and our defining trait is a *dislike* of "tavern rp". We're commited to serious rp. So don't assume we're going to make a less serious, social community.

Just leave it guys, this is looking as bad as the beta forums.

All that this talk does is drive people away from BOTH servers.

We're not doing anyone any favors by slinging all of this crap back and forth.

It's getting old, and I'm getting tired of sifting through the "reported" posts that are nothing but childish. 

If you want to have a constructive discussion, I suggest you all get it back on track soon. At this rate, every thread on this subject is going to get locked. I'd hate to see good discussions get locked out because they might turn sour.

Before you post, take a step back from the keyboard. Wait until your head cools and think about what you wrote, please.

Edit: Also, PLEASE do NOT throw personal attacks around. That is really not constructive...

(08-06-2013, 09:57 AM)Xerek Wrote: [ -> ]The Facets of Eorzea are on Gilgamesh, and our defining trait is a *dislike* of "tavern rp".  We're commited to serious rp.  So don't assume we're going to make a less serious, social community.

Hey, I can't speak for everyone, just the people I know well enough who are going in with me.  Let us be the entry level, the ball pit.  No doubt you'll be able to spy new recruits that meet your needs from the big get-togethers that the friendly bro-face side of Gilgamesh RP plans on pushing. 

I'm thinking I'd make a good Silver Anvil man, myself.  They seem dedicated to what they do, but also really open and flexible.  I'll probably write up an app in a bit here.

And lady - I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything at all by being inclusive.  My story is a rollicking Indiana Jones adventure that seems at every major turn to beat SE to their own plot twists, and anyone who wants in on it at any capacity is welcome to take a bite, or stay for the whole nine-course arc.  That includes people who can barely type straight on their mountain dew-encrusted PS3 keyboard.  I intend to serve as an example of my ideal.

(08-06-2013, 05:49 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]Ashren, we are not "bad guests" for wanting to start a new community on Gilgamesh.  The powers that be are not going to step in to right the great wrong, because no one's wrong, here.  Everyone's going to do what they enjoy most.  Every new player who rolls Balmung because they want an established community is as good and right as every person who comes to Gilgamesh for the uphill battle of forging a new one.

With all due respect, I think that your OP in your Beta forum thread doesn't convey this point of view at all. To me, it comes across as populist-style propaganda against Balmung, citing a list of supposed reasons why no one -- new and returning players alike -- should ever want to play on Balmung:

"The fresh, perky new RP server!" (Balmung is old, tired, and worn out.)

"Are you a storyteller? Do you want to try new things, themes, and spin a different kind of tale from the usual kill-the-wolf, avenge-my-father, I-was-molested-as-an-elf-child, dark-magick-made-me-do-it jibberjabber? Perhaps you've seen enough of that on some other server?" (This seems to be directly implying that the quality of RP and/or player-crafted stories on Balmung is poor, and Gilgamesh will somehow be better in this regard. I have no idea what the basis for this is.)

"Then, do you want to come back to your home city and throw a celebratory in-character bash people will actually attend, because they like that sort of thing? I hope you've got one of those 50-in-every-class/job legacy characters to return to, 'cause those guys will have the raid content nuked so fast your head will spin. If you don't have an all-50's juggernaut waiting for 2.0, your choice is clear." (As said before, this entire thing -- if it's even a real issue at all -- will be moot in a few months. Personally, I only have two 50s, and a lot of fresh players will be 50 and pushing towards endgame content before early access is even over. I think this is a pretty short-sighted thing to cause a schism over.)

"[Balmung is] all well and good, if you want a pecking order in place when you arrive." (I have no idea what this is referring to. Is there a "pecking order," as in people who are in charge or hold an authority over others? Not that I've ever seen. And those that do try to assume a position of "RP authority" generally get seen for what they are, laughed at, and ignored. I've never seen this happen, either to myself or anyone else. Asserting this fact to new/undecided players seems intentionally deceptive and serves only to create animosity between the two server communities.)

"Your choice is a no-brainer. You don't want to be the small fry in a pond full of legacy whoppers." (Same as before.)

This basically reads to me as "Balmung's okay...if you want to be insignificant in the community, shunned, left in the dust, and ignored by elitists." None of which, I believe, is true. I understand that it's written as an advertisement which by nature are one-sided, but I dislike it for the same reason that I dislike political attack ads. It may be technically true (or not), but the effect on the community's health is a net negative regardless of the intent behind it.

I'm all for supporting the Gilgamesh community for people who truly want to start a new community and/or get a fresh start. I could list off a relatively level-headed list of pros and cons for both servers, to help new players make as educated and informed of a decision as possible. But one-sided advertisements like this feel sort of dishonest and mean-spirited. We're all on the same side, here; why does this need to become so hostile?

That's all. We should be helping people find the place that's a best fit for them in a forthright manner, and both sides should have the integrity to not slander competing servers. (It depresses me that I can even call them that.) It's role-play in a video game, that's all. Let's help people figure out where they might be happiest, and put aside our personal agendas long enough to do that.

Come on, guys. We're all adults here. 

(08-06-2013, 09:32 AM)lady2beetle Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2013, 07:51 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]When the trailblazing is done, and everyone is more or less on the same page, progression wise, we'll have two peacefully coexisting communities with their own attitudes and "flavors" to choose from.  I say this with a bit of certainty because I suspect Gilgamesh cannot survive operating as Balmung does.  The server (Gilgamesh) is simply too hostile and eager to take a bite out of us.  The Gilgamesh RPgoal is, to many people (myself included) a hybrid community that basically anyone can be a part of, at any level of roleplaying skill or interest.  That means Reddit, Blue Gartr, and any volatile internet community that traditionally spends inordinate lengths of time trying to spoil roleplay for laughs - Gilgamesh's RP crew is going to have to integrate all of them, even while they're crashing our events.  If Gilga RP accomplishes this, we will end up with a very different communal attitude - laid back, amused and amusing, and - dare I describe it this way - something closer to RP for bros.

This is a very noble goal, and one that I tip my hat to all of you for striving for. I also, however, feel like this is a distinction that may be a very strong deciding factor for people. I, for one, do not want a server where RP becomes LOL!RP. I know that's not what you meant, but I feel like you are taking on the sacrifice of true quality story-driving RP so that people can get a better impression of RPers than we might have right now. Again, very noble. Just not something I can do. And it may not be something other people can do. I don't know. Then again, maybe some people don't see it as a sacrifice. Maybe it'll turn out that Gilgamesh is the "tavern RP" server. And some people thrive on that. As someone who doesn't, I'm glad that distinction is being made, though, because it is directing me away from Gilgamesh. If it turns out that this IS all about different RP styles, then kudos! I guess we'll just have to find out.

 "If it turns out that this is all about different RP styles"
 
That is what its about I'm a heavy roleplayer and have always been. Heavy roleplay will have its place as will light roleplay and everything else in between.

---

(08-06-2013, 12:36 PM)Adelpha Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2013, 05:49 AM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: [ -> ]Ashren, we are not "bad guests" for wanting to start a new community on Gilgamesh.  The powers that be are not going to step in to right the great wrong, because no one's wrong, here.  Everyone's going to do what they enjoy most.  Every new player who rolls Balmung because they want an established community is as good and right as every person who comes to Gilgamesh for the uphill battle of forging a new one.

With all due respect, I think that your OP in your Beta forum thread doesn't convey this point of view at all. To me, it comes across as populist-style propaganda against Balmung, citing a list of supposed reasons why no one -- new and returning players alike -- should ever want to play on Balmung:

"The fresh, perky new RP server!" (Balmung is old, tired, and worn out.)

"Are you a storyteller? Do you want to try new things, themes, and spin a different kind of tale from the usual kill-the-wolf, avenge-my-father, I-was-molested-as-an-elf-child, dark-magick-made-me-do-it jibberjabber? Perhaps you've seen enough of that on some other server?" (This seems to be directly implying that the quality of RP and/or player-crafted stories on Balmung is poor, and Gilgamesh will somehow be better in this regard. I have no idea what the basis for this is.)

"Then, do you want to come back to your home city and throw a celebratory in-character bash people will actually attend, because they like that sort of thing? I hope you've got one of those 50-in-every-class/job legacy characters to return to, 'cause those guys will have the raid content nuked so fast your head will spin. If you don't have an all-50's juggernaut waiting for 2.0, your choice is clear." (As said before, this entire thing -- if it's even a real issue at all -- will be moot in a few months. Personally, I only have two 50s, and a lot of fresh players will be 50 and pushing towards endgame content before early access is even over. I think this is a pretty short-sighted thing to cause a schism over.)

"[Balmung is] all well and good, if you want a pecking order in place when you arrive." (I have no idea what this is referring to. Is there a "pecking order," as in people who are in charge or hold an authority over others? Not that I've ever seen. And those that do try to assume a position of "RP authority" generally get seen for what they are, laughed at, and ignored. I've never seen this happen, either to myself or anyone else. Asserting this fact to new/undecided players seems intentionally deceptive and serves only to create animosity between the two server communities.)

"Your choice is a no-brainer. You don't want to be the small fry in a pond full of legacy whoppers." (Same as before.)

This basically reads to me as "Balmung's okay...if you want to be insignificant in the community, shunned, left in the dust, and ignored by elitists." None of which, I believe, is true. I understand that it's written as an advertisement which by nature are one-sided, but I dislike it for the same reason that I dislike political attack ads. It may be technically true (or not), but the effect on the community's health is a net negative regardless of the intent behind it.

I'm all for supporting the Gilgamesh community for people who truly want to start a new community and/or get a fresh start. I could list off a relatively level-headed list of pros and cons for both servers, to help new players make as educated and informed of a decision as possible. But one-sided advertisements like this feel sort of dishonest and mean-spirited. We're all on the same side, here; why does this need to become so hostile?

That's all. We should be helping people find the place that's a best fit for them in a forthright manner, and both sides should have the integrity to not slander competing servers. (It depresses me that I can even call them that.) It's role-play in a video game, that's all. Let's help people figure out where they might be happiest, and put aside our personal agendas long enough to do that.

Come on, guys. We're all adults here. 

 Nobody has done such things on this site in particular. What happens on the beta site is what happens on the beta site and that's it. Please understand that many of us who are heading to Gilgamesh who post -here- primarily are very diplomatic in talking about the pros and cons of both. Its not something new its something that we have always done. Slandering Balmung is not part of our interests. Its certainly not mine as I have friends going there and it was my original server choice.
 
Lets not throw everyone into the same pot yes? It would be bad if we took some who have openly slammed or passive aggressively bullied players going to Gilgamesh instead of Balmung as representatives of the entire Balmung rp community wouldn't it? That would be just as wrong. Especially since it isn't the truth at all.
 
People are excited and passionate and sometimes say things they shouldn't. It happens, things like this bring up heated conversation and I am sure that everyone has good intentions even if such intentions are not always written in the most welcoming of language.
 
But I will also reiterate that we all are a community nobody is trying to stop anyone from going anywhere. Speaking for myself digging up my post history will show that I am pro rp community more than anything and not pro rp server. I don't feel that any server is better than the other. I only care about roleplayers playing in the same game. That's it. For me to be pro server is a bit weird. Your destination should not matter here, only the fact that you are genuinely interested in roleplaying. At least that's my opinion on it.
 
Lets honestly not even have this conversation. We have enough issues already.

I see the argument that there will be a different mindest of RP on Gilgamesh than on Balmung. This "psychological" factor that will be different, or something like that...
Thats not going to happen...

Quote: "If it turns out that this is all about different RP styles"

That is what its about I'm a heavy roleplayer and have always been. Heavy roleplay will have its place as will light roleplay and everything else in between.

Exactly that. People are different, they will play the way they want. Whereever they go! There will be people who prefer heavy RP, or light RP, or "tavern" RP or even ERP! And these people will be on both servers.
Really, i bet in the end you can't see a measurable difference in the RP communities on both servers.


Thats all i ever will say on the topic of the two RP servers.

You are discussing things back and forth without any result, because it is pointles! Take a step back and look at these discussions, they are like YouTube comment discussion. Long, full of grief and in the end totally pointles.

Seriously. I know that it's so easy for such discussions to break out on the internet. You could already make psychological studys about it, in Real life people would just shrug and and go along, but on the internet no one wants to give up when they feel they are right and others are wrong.

People need to realise that they are just wasting their lifetime on such petty things.

Personally, i play on balmung and i couldnt care less about the whole topic. Why should i stress myself with discussing it...

No one can ever please everybody. That's a life long lesson for some. The decision for Gilgamesh was made awhile back. There is no reason to want to change it at this point. I know people are antsy for the game and I know fear has just gripped some people's minds. Gilgamesh and Balmung will both do fine, succeed, whatever... It's all going to be fine. Just stop worrying so much and stop fretting. I see no point in trying to change people's minds to go to this server or that. I know I'm just going to RP, have fun with my FC, do some fun progression and do some amazing RP. That's all that matters at the end of the day is 'how' your experience will be with the effort that you put into it. No one else. If you are very fragile thin skinned, you probably won't enjoy any Rp server because there will always be a griefer or someone to stomp on someone's parade. That's human nature. Even RP official servers have griefers. Just accept it, move on and have fun.

I'm new to the forums here and plan on RP'ing. It is nice to see there is a site where those who wish to RP in Final Fantasy A Realm Reborn (and the previous v1.xx) have to get together and talk outside of game.

The only negative I have seen in my weeks shadowing the site (was very shy about signing up and posting) is this whole Server vs Server discussion. As the above poster mentioned this really is starting to look a bit like random youtube discussion which goes no where. It is a bit upsetting to see such a silly topic dividing people; at least it is coming across as a community divided.

I've done plenty of RP'ing in video games and MMOs in my time and I know how frustrating it can be when people interfere just to be jerks, or you get trolled. Even on dedicated RP servers it happens. While it is nice to have a community focused in one spot, there is nothing wrong with a community spreading out especially at the rebirth of a game. The BASE subscription model allows you to create characters on up to 8 servers. Create a character on Balmung, Gilgamesh, etc.

We should be working together and helping one another out, not debating which server or why one is better than the other. So please, lets just work together here. People want to go here, others want to go there. Okay... the end? Embrace the feelings of others and the fact this is a rebirth of the game. Both communities can share ideas and be just as strong together.

Adelpha, I am genuinely surprised that you took away what you did from that post.  It was intended to capture the excitement of starting anew.  I am beginning to think that post was badly written, in particular, how I phrased the legacy whoppers bit.  That was directed at achievement oriented gamers who want to race to 50 on a fresh server, but the grammar is unclear.  It almost looks like I was implying that would affect roleplay quality in some way, which is absurd.

Yet, I need to say:
There is nothing in that post that was intended as an attack on Balmung.  You are filling in blanks I left blank because they are blank.  Some other server is any server someone is dissatisfied with.  Probably the worst thing I said about Balmung is that it has a pecking order.  It does.  That's a benefit to the kind of people who want to start out on Balmung - the kind of people who want a strong established community with well-understood rules and self-policies.   It's a detriment to people who want an unformed and uncertain environment and the opportunity to shape the community they are in.  Both of these attitudes are "right", in their own, way, and neither of them are wrong.

Every new player who decides to move to Balmung, I think, is making a decision they will be satisfied with, and it will be a good decision.  Balmung is a good server, with a strong, established community.  I have said this very thing in that same thread you've lifted my statements from, and I stand by them.

I've never seen this "pecking order" on Balmung. There are a lot of new FC/LSs forming there just fine and no one is telling them to get in the back. I do see people on Gilgimesh saying that they have no fear about the possible "bad" communities going to their server, yet they seem to fear the community on Balmung. Why not take that same defiant energy for playing on Gilgamesh and do it with the rest of us on Balmung? That's an honest question. I think that would be awesome, actually. It would create that spice that you want. Because as I see it, new fellow role-players are more afraid of the old role-players than communities with bad reputations. That, my friends, is pretty scary as a role-player, new or old. If we can't get along in our own little corner of the game then what are we doing?

As I see it, we're all role-players (otherwise, why are you here), no one is telling anyone what to do, but as one type of community, I thought we were all here for the same thing. I mean, we try to get along on -this very website- as one community, why can't we do that on the same dang server? Now it's seems we're two things, New RP and Old RP, which, like I said before, in a couple months will be pretty much the same on both servers. There will be old Gilgamesh RP and old Balmung RP. What will the difference be? This is what I'm trying to figure out. I get the reasons -right now-, but this is a long-term deal, so what will be different in a couple months? What will make one distinct to the other? What will we tell new players? "This one has 'these' role-players here, and that one has 'those' role-players there."

Even after saying all that, I'm not all that worried about all this. Really, the more I think about it, as far as the RPC goes, I think this will be a moot point after a while. There are clearly only a handful of staunch Gilgamesh supporters willing to fight their good fight. Once the game is going and everyone gets involved in their groups etc things will quiet down a lot. So I'm going with the attitude of letting things play out. I may have my opinion on the matter (above), but at the end of the day I'm not really worried.
I just want to play!