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Cailean Lockwood · **01-14-2016, 04:40 PM**

(01-14-2016, 02:13 PM)Momo Wrote: Cailean brings up a very good point that I think we should all consider in our minds a few more times...BBC has something to offer in all it's various forms.

I do enjoy a good BBC now and then.

Marcy · **01-14-2016, 06:39 PM**

I'd say that as far as current MMOs go, XIV's PVE community is by far one of the easiest to work with. I've tanked in Wrath and healed in Cata, I've ran high mode dungeons and fractals in GW2, I've tried Wildstar and I've played a fair bit of TSW. Right now I'm power leveling a tank so I can help out my friends. I'm a horrible fratboy min-maxer (still laughing like a 12 year old @BBC) when it comes to most games, but that's solidly because I want my groups to do well.

I've helped lead guilds, and I know how hard it is to get your own thing running -- but by far it is the best way to get anything off the ground. I think the main thing people forget when approaching MMOs and especially end-game content that it is a game, and if it's not fun you can walk away and pick up a billion other games floating out there.

We are in an over-saturated market where MMOs are rapidly dying, and there is a reason the MOBA style gameplay is more appealing over others: time commitment and shorter relationships with players. There is also a reason a lot of us still prefer MMOs, and it would be good for everyone not to forget that.

LiadansWhisper · **01-14-2016, 08:14 PM**

Everyone's definition of "fun" is going to be different. Some people play MMOs solely for their story aspects. Other people enjoy the group content like dungeons and raids (and even there, some people vastly prefer one sort of content over the other). Some people enjoy exploration, while others are more concerned with mini-games within the overall larger setting, and still others are primarily playing for PvP, or for RP. It just really depends.

My idea of "fun" does not include having to guide new players through content every single time I queue for a dungeon. I'm up for that a lot of the time, but not every time. I prefer a quick, easy, no-stress run.

But honestly, the community is mostly ok. I've only had a few instances where I wanted to quit a dungeon, or did quit a dungeon over the behavior of others in the group.

Warren Castille · **01-14-2016, 08:41 PM**

I got Ravana HM in my Trial roulette today. It was 4/8 new people. The WAR wielding a Conqueror in Defiance lost threat to me in Sword Oath. One healer couldn't into not standing in front of broken walls. DPS could not kill butterflies. I explained every mechanic, called out when things were happening, and did my best to help guide us to a win after several wipes. Despite Echo 2, we always had swords going into Bloody Fuller.

Zero commendations.

This isn't a Vent Tent post.

If you want to say that experienced vets are somehow not doing enough, perhaps the newbies we're stuck with are also not putting in a modicum of effort.

Edgar · **01-14-2016, 10:43 PM**

As a person who plays DOTA 2 often, and is currently sifting through low-priority matches...

The "community" as it were of players on Balmung, is nowhere near as toxic as a MOBA game's can be. The thing is, there's no competitive drive to this game, whereas MOBAs are basically mini-tournaments every match where there is no retry after failure, and during the entire thing, especially when you do happen to fail, you get shit like this.

I think I would have bashed my skull in with a blunt object by now if the MMO community was anywhere near that on a regular basis.

Caspar · **01-15-2016, 12:07 AM**

I very rarely find myself angry at players in dungeons. It is more likely in Void Arc where there is a very large number of players concentrated, but likewise they are less likely to be a critical liability. I do my best to be patient with new players. Back when Pharos Sirius was still difficult and my favorite dungeon in the game, perhaps because of how easily it made other tanks cry, I would actually take the time to teach newbies who didn't flee immediately upon loading how to do the dungeon. Hopefully in the future the Mentor system encourages more patience and more willingness to trust others and learn from them.

LiadansWhisper · **01-15-2016, 05:33 AM**

(01-15-2016, 12:07 AM)Caspar Wrote: I very rarely find myself angry at players in dungeons. It is more likely in Void Arc where there is a very large number of players concentrated, but likewise they are less likely to be a critical liability. I do my best to be patient with new players. Back when Pharos Sirius was still difficult and my favorite dungeon in the game, perhaps because of how easily it made other tanks cry, I would actually take the time to teach newbies who didn't flee immediately upon loading how to do the dungeon. Hopefully in the future the Mentor system encourages more patience and more willingness to trust others and learn from them.

The last time I went into Void Ark, the bf and I ended up healing for the entire 24-man because, well, I'm not actually sure what the other healers were doing, but healing wasn't on that list. They would lose their entire party, whereas beyond That One Dragoon™ that I think every raid runs into, we didn't have anyone fall over dead. Their tanks were almost constantly dropping, though, because they just weren't healing...anyone. They weren't healing the tanks, weren't healing the DPS. Maybe they were DPSing? I don't know? But it was annoying. Kind of need the other alliances to do their jobs, too. I don't like wiping because other healers can't figure out how to use their buttons.

In case you're wondering about That One Dragoon™, I'm pretty sure it was this guy's twin:

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Kellach Woods · **01-15-2016, 07:55 AM**

Hm.

Is it shit on new player day?

Guess so since it's a day that ends in y.

I've seen way more "experienced vets" not pulling their own weight by virtue of "this is (insert outdated dungeon here)" than I have genuinely new people intentionally being trash. In terms of mechanics at least. Keyword is intentionally.

When it comes to this community I'm not going to say because I'm told I'm always wrong about those things.

Momo · **01-15-2016, 03:19 PM**

Willful ignorance? Â Still ignorance. Â I think there is difference between someone having not great hand-eye coordination, and needing a bit of help, and people just straight up sucking and not trying. Â I have seen both, one doesn't annoy me in the least, and I am usually the first to say hello, tell them "Hey no probs" if they are new, and then give them basic to detailed mechs depending on their knowledge, or simply just point out major things to remember, but when someone comes in clearly having been carried their entire game experience, and dies multiple times to the both the same and new mechanics at every turn, until we just decide to leave them dead...that is a different story, one that I don't generally comment on unless it gets totally nonsensical, but still a different story as far as level of annoyance.

It can happen more than once on the daily even if I only play a few hours a day. A specific experience comes to mind from this week, and I have been having badÂ experiences all week with certain things, but I decided this week to do Bismarck as one of my instances to get parties to do for fun. Â I had a BRD...a BRD, who can move while attacking most of the time, not a mage who has to stand in one place for most attacks to go through. Â He had full Eso gear, some upgraded, and a second lvl Anima...he died...and died, and died some more. Â I tried to help, it didn't work, finally after literally 10 wipes I asked, why do you keep dying, we are playing the same mechanics over and over again (because we hadn't made it past a certain stage at that point), he said "Too many AoEs, I can't do anything."
...an eso brd with second level anima..."Too many AoEs..."?...okay, all the mages (including myself) >>>> (>.>)...rly?Â

Mind you that is a single instance of this happening, but it really isn't that rare, I am sticking to my guns, and saying there are negatives from both groups that come into this game, because it allows for both, that doesn't mean I don't get enjoyment out of it, I do, but I guess the internet strikes again? Â This is mostly (like all our discussions) a circular argument lol, but the frustration probably stems more from the sheer denial of it rather than a desire to keep debating it.

LiadansWhisper · **01-15-2016, 03:53 PM**

Momo, both Bards and Black Mages can move. It just tanks both of their DPS. Yes, even Bards lose when they move because of Wanderer's Minuet, which they generally need to keep up last time I checked.

He still should have moved.

(01-15-2016, 07:55 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Is it shit on new player day?

If you have made it to level 60, you are no longer a "new player" in my eyes.

If you haven't figured out your buttons, or how not to stand in fire by then, there are problems that, quite honestly, I don't pay $16.99 a month to solve for you.

Val · **01-15-2016, 04:00 PM**

(01-15-2016, 03:53 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Momo, both Bards and Black Mages can move. Â It just tanks both of their DPS. Â Yes, even Bards lose when they move because of Wanderer's Minuet, which they generally need to keep up last time I checked.

He still should have moved.

(01-15-2016, 07:55 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Is it shit on new player day?

If you have made it to level 60, you are no longer a "new player" in my eyes.

If you haven't figured out your buttons, or how not to stand in fire by then, there are problems that, quite honestly, I don't pay $16.99 a month to solve for you.

Pretty much this. I don't mind helping people, but if people aren't willing to help themselves at that point then I really don't care to be around them, especially considering this game holds your hand from 1-50 and has other systems in place meant to teach you absolutely everything about it.

LiadansWhisper · **01-15-2016, 04:06 PM**

(01-15-2016, 04:00 PM)Val Wrote: Pretty much this. I don't mind helping people, but if people aren't willing to help themselves at that point then I really don't care to be around them, especially considering this game holds your hand from 1-50 and has other systems in place meant to teach you absolutely everything about it.

Yes. It's one thing if you're in one of those weird dungeons from 1-60 that is way harder than the regular dungeons are (Stone Vigil, Aurum Vale, and Dusk Vigil (due to the massive increase in damage not accompanied by a massive increase in mitigation/gear/healing) come to mind), then I understand. I'm always willing to help in those, because those dungeons are just really weird when compared to the other dungeons, much harder and ask far more of groups than other regular "leveling" dungeons do.

But when we've spent an hour in the Aery, half of which has been spent on Nidhogg because, despite me explaining multiple times what you need to do in each phase, when each thing happens, and despite my calling it out in chat every time, you still can't figure out how not to get blown up by the aoe things, I mean...I can't carry you. I really, really can't.

Val · **01-15-2016, 04:11 PM**

(01-15-2016, 04:06 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: But when we've spent an hour in the Aery, half of which has been spent on NidhoggÂ

I am suddenly reminded of the time that Faye and I ran not Aery, but the dungeon before that. I was tanking, she was healing, and we had this absolutely shit NIN that kept attacking the last boss during the transition you're supposed to take his wings out.Â

We wiped three, maybe four times on it. Yes, we tried to explain to them that you have to swap to take out the wings. It didn't help. We even refused to move until they agreed and they still just attacked the boss. At this point I want to believe it was just a troll, but nah. The whole dungeon they were awful.

I don't know how anyone expects anyone to help those kind of people Undecided

LiadansWhisper · **01-15-2016, 04:18 PM**

(01-15-2016, 04:11 PM)Val Wrote:
(01-15-2016, 04:06 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: But when we've spent an hour in the Aery, half of which has been spent on NidhoggÂ

I am suddenly reminded of the time that Faye and I ran not Aery, but the dungeon before that. I was tanking, she was healing, and we had this absolutely shit NIN that kept attacking the last boss during the transition you're supposed to take his wings out.Â

We wiped three, maybe four times on it. Yes, we tried to explain to them that you have to swap to take out the wings. It didn't help. We even refused to move until they agreed and they still just attacked the boss. At this point I want to believe it was just a troll, but nah. The whole dungeon they were awful.

I don't know how anyone expects anyone to help those kind of people

You know, lmao, it was that dungeon not the Aery. I just remembered, "HEY WE KILLED A REALLY ANNOYING DRAGON." It was a Bard and he just...he kept running into the AoEs. We wiped over and over and over again. I kept trying to be helpful and encouraging but the Bard finally just dropped. We got a...I think it was a Ninja or a Dragoon, and one-shot the boss next pull.

Val · **01-15-2016, 04:21 PM**

(01-15-2016, 04:18 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(01-15-2016, 04:11 PM)Val Wrote:
(01-15-2016, 04:06 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: But when we've spent an hour in the Aery, half of which has been spent on NidhoggÂ

I am suddenly reminded of the time that Faye and I ran not Aery, but the dungeon before that. I was tanking, she was healing, and we had this absolutely shit NIN that kept attacking the last boss during the transition you're supposed to take his wings out.Â

We wiped three, maybe four times on it. Yes, we tried to explain to them that you have to swap to take out the wings. It didn't help. We even refused to move until they agreed and they still just attacked the boss. At this point I want to believe it was just a troll, but nah. The whole dungeon they were awful.

I don't know how anyone expects anyone to help those kind of people

You know, lmao, it was that dungeon not the Aery. Â I just remembered, "HEY WE KILLED A REALLY ANNOYING DRAGON." Â It was a Bard and he just...he kept running into the AoEs. Â We wiped over and over and over again. Â I kept trying to be helpful and encouraging but the Bard finally just dropped. Â We got a...I think it was a Ninja or a Dragoon, and one-shot the boss next pull.

Haha we did the exact same. Finally just booted them, got another player, and oneshot the boss. In games when one person can make or break something, you really can only hold their hand so much before they, too, need to put forth some effort to get stuff done.

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The Big Bold Community (aka the BBC)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes