Norna

So far I've only done Limsa Lominsa. Anyway here's the numbers I've found, not counting people that appear during quests (like K'lyhia): 50 Miqo'te in total. 1 Male, 49 Females 46 Seekers of the Sun 1 Keeper of the Moon (Adventurer at the Drowning Wench) 3 Mixes (A'brohka, Rubh Epocan and H'naanza) 3 from the N' tribe, 3 from the R' tribe, 2 from the H' tribe, the rest are singles. They seem to do pretty well in Limsa Lominsa, considering that only 3 of them has taken to wenching and lots of them serve in some sort of official capacity (Guildmaster/receptionists, Yellowjackets/Maelstrom), or are just regular people such as pirates, merchants and fishers.

Like A'brohka; she looks like a stereotypical Moon Miqo'te (dark, bluish-grey skin, round eyes, fangs and so on) and is with the all-women Sanguine Sirens, yet she clearly has recent enough ancestry of the Antelope tribe to have their prefix.

Oh so if we...and...the...birds..moved...in...space...wait... The numbers are wrong, aren't they? *sighs* Anyone, simplified what I meant: A conscientious chocobo owner who needs to eat and sleep, as well as walking a third of the way to allow the chocobo to rest, and is in a hurry would plan for at least 1 month to get from Gridania to Ul'dah. 1 and a half to 2 months by foot without a chocobo (if you get there a couple of days early, well, at least you don't have to miss anything!). This is assuming that the open type of airship they use take 24 hours between the two (per an off-hand remark by an NPC when I first traveled the airship, which I might have hallucinated or something) as well as going on an average speed of 30km/h. Basically: 24h * 30km = 720km by air. Then I added some distance to account for the fact that walking the earth isn't as plain and straight-forward as going by air, and said 1200km. But for all we know, travelling by land might easily be 1500km, which would probably increase the 1 month to 1 month and 2-3 weeks, and by foot, it would take about 2 months and 1-2 weeks.

On the topic of Sun/Moon Miqo'te, I think I'm gonna take a stroll around the world and see how many I can find, using these criteria: Moon - Grey or white facial stripes, pointed teeth, round pupils, Moon-lore name Sun - Brown or none facial stripes, flat teeth, slit pupils, Sun-lore name Anyone who have at least one trait from each would be considered to have ancestry of both (assuming that the majority of them wont just be hearkening back to a time when they were one/adoption).

If you dismount and walk about a third of the way, assuming you walk briskly, the time would be up to about two and a half to three weeks, if we go by the estimate of 1200km. However, this is only assuming relatively easy to pass obstacles (such as hills/nearby wading spots and bridges) and a relative beeline with no fighting/complications. Maybe a month by chocobo would be more realistic? Add about two-to-three weeks for regular walking. A whole month would be safest to plan for. Harsh terrain (desert/snowstorms/swamps and so on) can double or even triple your time in the area.

Inorite. It would be quite possibly the best thing ever. It might even be almost enough to make me forget we don't have wardrobe slots. Almost. I WANT SEASONS! D: Me too! On the geography of Eorzea thing; did I dream it, or was it implied that taking the airship from one city-state to another takes a whole day? I thought for sure that someone said something of that effect when I first traveled. From what I've read, most conventional blimps used to have speeds of up to 50km/h (likely less than 30km/h, though), and some modern ones that I've heard about can go up to 125km/h (I think it was a hybrid, so not full on blimp). I would say that the Eorzean goes up to 50km/h max, considered their open passenger space nature, which suggest a distance of at least 1200km between two city-states. It wouldn't be very comfortable though at those speeds *imagines Lalafells raining from the sky from being blow off airships*, and I think 30km/h is more realistic, which means that it would be 720km between one city-state to the next in the air. Travel by land I would imagine could nearly double the length by having to go over, under and around obstacles. A chocobo constantly running the whole way (I'm gonna use horse's somewhat canter speed of 20km/h), straight-line on flat surface of 720km would take 36 hours. If we say that land speed with obstacles is about 1200km, it takes 60 hours. If we remember that they're supposed to be living beings, we'll have to calculate walk speed, which would be around 170 hours, no eating or sleeping. Adding in eating and sleeping, it seems like it would take around two weeks to travel by chocobo between two of the city-states. Which means that the game-world is really, really condensed. And we now know why the Aethernet, even as it is only useful to adventurers, is being maintained and we're being sent on all these fetch/letter/speak quests; if NPCs did it, it would take a loooong time. And now I have a headache because my brain is allergic to maths (and all the numbers are probably wrong or something).

Yeah, but "tribe" can be used both for the prefix-tribe and "tribe" as in a particular tribe, which is probably what S-E meant (so if X'ehl Tia is born into a tribe already lead by X'hyr Nunh, they're both from the X-tribe, yet if X'ehl leaves with a bunch of women and becomes X'ehl Nunh, they will still be X-tribe, but they will also be individual tribes, I assume, anyway). Going off-canon and into speculation for a bit, I always assumed that of the elders of whichever tribe select possible new Nunhs from available Tia (and the ones left over/those chosen but not wishing to become Nunh yet generally leaving their birth-tribe). The one tribe we have a sample of, the U-tribe, already have hunting rites of passage for everyone, so I guess they would already be proven hunters. Their Nunh is also known for his mental (according to at least one NPC) and physical prowess and is also known for his time in the Company of Heroes. Maybe there's a test of wit/wisdom/experience as well. It's possible that in these more open times (with Sun/Moon crosses and more and more Miqo'te living outside of tribal and clannish groups), being a distinguished hero/adventurer/mercenary might also be taken into consideration (maybe this is why that Tia joined the Scions). We do know that there is a battle/duel, but not if it is considered ceremonial and traditional, or if it is a no-holds barred, sand-kicked in eyes, blows below the belt death match. On the "sneaky fucker" thing and choices for the women; Miqo'te are not lions, they have their humanity going for them. I imagine that a Tia that is generally rejected by the women might find his way to challenging the current Nunh blocked by various obstacles (if there is no Tia to gatekeep an injured/sick Nunh, I could see a particularly dominant woman insisting on "testing" the Tia), and if he wins, he'll probably be either driven out by them, or a more acceptable Tia is encouraged to beat the snot outta him (seriously, any Tia trying to take over a tribe that wants nothing to do with him IS NOT thinking ahead, and his poor judgment would probably lead to exile from the tribe he believed he'd taken over, simply on the grounds that he has no forethought and is therefore a lousy protector). Of course, once a majority-approved Nunh has won, he does not have automatic rights to every woman in the tribe. It is likely that a few put up with it because they don't particularly mind this Nunh (and I wont go into my theories about Miqo'te sexuality and norms, suffice to say that even humans in our world don't need love to have sex), and a few might sneak with a Tia behind his back, but my theory is that this is considered extremely rude and insulting behavior (in this case, it is more acceptable to elope). Likely, most of the women not attracted to the current Nunh either bide their time for a better Nunh, or leave, either with or without a Tia of their choice, just like how Tia who are not considered Nunh material leave for greener pastures. Okay, this became a longer speculation than I intended so I'll stop now.

Alright, I've edited the post to reflect that only the U-tribe is known to be patriarchal.

Good catch! Seems like Sun/Moon Miqo'tes are even more common than I thought.

Isn't this a contradiction? I mean, I get that in a society of 10-50♀/1♂ ratio that there is no way that all the decision and influence will reside with the male gender, but if there is inherent influences in being male (creation a new tribe/family/leader like the U tribe/teacher and authority/passing one's name), as well having the entire society shaped around "patriarchs" (a Nunh by any other name...), couldn't they be considered Eorzea's equivalent of patriarchy? (And not the more familiar patriarchy of our world. I'm arguing from a Watsonian rather than Doylist point of view here.)

I disagree with the premise that the passing of a family name defines whether a culture is matriarchal or patriarchal. It's got more to do with the power of a gender within the society and who is looked to when making important decisions. I know that's how it works in our world, but it seems like Miqo'te put a HUGE amount of history/importance in their names, and according to S-E Moon Keepers are "highly matriarchal", so while Sun Seeking males might not necessarily be leaders, their society is built around them, and while Moon Keepers are solitary, their society highly values the old names passed down from their mothers. Erm, what I'm trying to say is that the naming itself isn't the origin of the societal structures, it's just a symptom as to whom importance is attached; father in the case of Sun Seekers, and mother in the case of Moon Keepers. And in-game, it is clear that the Forgotten Springs U tribe's Nunh is a leader and makes important decisions and is looked up to. Same with the two Tia who vie to become Nunhs themselves (they are looked up to as teachers). And S-E already says that Moon Keepers are matriarchal, so it seems to me like they're supposed to mirror one another with one being patriarchal and the other matriarchal. TL;DR: The passing of names are a symptom as to whom the society favors/is structured around. Not the cause itself. Also, S-E contradicts themselves. I can see that. Sun = Submissive catgirl harem. Moon = Cat-dominatrices/forbidden wild nymphs of the forest that are sexually frustrated due to lack of men. Or Sun = Harem Anime and Moon = Amazons/Drows. And then S-E realized the Unfortunate Implications and applied a few band-aids.

I'd like to point out, as per the naming convention page on the lore forums: "Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders." It's annoyingly silly that Squee contradicts itself by turning that around completely with the one actual Seeker tribe portrayed in the game. I half expect they just couldn't stand the thought of men not having much say in their family and so went with "Nunh leads the U tribe" regardless of their own established lore. But yea, based off what we're given by Squeenix, I wouldn't say Seeker culture is patriarchal. Nunhs are certainly important due to the simple fact that they're responsible for continuing the tribe, but that doesn't mean they control their family units. Maybe the Nunh of the U tribe is one of the few good enough to become a leader (the guard? outside his house waxes poetical about his mental prowess)? I'd say that maybe Sun Seeking tribal culture could be considered patriarchal, so to speak, because it is built around nunhs, whether they're leaders or not (both in procreation, and that their daughters take their father's name), and because a Tia can found a new tribe if he can convince women to join him. Just as how Moon Keepers are matriarchal because the mother's name is inherited by her children.

Thanks! So it seems like even though a large number of poachers are Moon Keepers, they are also the (accidental) targets of them as well. Additionally: "The paint we use is taken from the inedible berries of an herb known as 'soldier's sore' [...]" Um... I wonder if the name is in any way connected to its use? Inedible means many things and I wonder if it's possible that the berries' juices might be corrosive/drying to skin if in frequent use (hence, only soldiers get them). And it seems like Sun Seekers have tribes while Moon Keepers have clans.

Yes, I know that there have been several threads devoted to Miqo'te lore, but I wanted a thread devoted solely to canon information. [align=center]Lore Gathering: Miqo’te Society[/align] Sun Seekers We already know their naming lore, so I wont go into that. We know that they worship Azeyma, the Sun and Warden, sister of Menphina. They’re patriarchal in nature (U-tribe is patriarchal), usually each tribe will have a single Nunh, while there are a few Tia around. From what I can gather (mostly from Forgotten Springs), a Tia can only challenge a Nunh after they’ve defeated the other Tias of the tribe (this protects the Nunh from being chain-challenged and succumbing to exhaustion rather than a superior opponent). While they obviously value physical virtues (at least one tribe has a rite of age that includes hunting particular beasts), they also seem to put high value on mental virtues as well (several Sun Seekers, no matter if they’re tribal or not, alludes to this), such as wisdom, wit, smarts, experience and so on. Moon Keepers Again. Naming is known. They worship Menphina, the Lover and Moon. They’re matriarchal in nature, and their surnames are really old. What is mostly known about them is that there are many Moon Keeping poachers. I’m going out on a limb and say that hunting is as big a thing for the Moon Keepers as it is for the Sun Seekers (both tribes, after all, crossed the ice by following prey). They seem to value loyalty, but as I haven’t met many of them who don’t want to kill me on sight, that’s all I can say. I don’t know whether or not having watched Menphina’s hound be destroyed changed their way of life. Moon/Sun Mix Not as rare in NPC population as you might think. In the city-states, the most obvious one is A’brohka of the Sanguine Sirens in Limsa Lominsa, and the most famous one is F’lhaminn (missing since the Calamity), the Songstress of Ul’dah. It should be noted that A’brohka is in a female pirate crew, which is similar enough to Moon Keeping culture as we know it, while F’lhaminn followed a more traditional Sun Seeking path, so they seem to go however they want. And that’s what I’ve been able to confirm through the game so far. Anyone who’ve stumbled across any other nuggets of information?

It is also worth pointing out that names that go in the family is kind of a big thing for Keepers, so family names are from before the ice crossing, and it would make sense that in a society that puts such emphasis on names would repeat the given names of distinguished individuals (either to honor or as a form of vainglory), so if there was some really famous individual named Ehri Rohl, for example, I would expect the Rohl family to use the Ehri name after her death, and families who have yet to distinguish themselves at the same level might name a few of their children Ehri. At least that's my head-canon when I meet Miqo'te with similar or same names. Come to think of it, if it wasn't for the amnesia, there would probably be lots of five-to-one-year-olds running around with WoL names.

Add the fact that Moon Keepers worship "The Lover" and there might be some interesting lore going on here (my Moon Keeper's family interpret the teachings of Menphina that love isn't a limited commodity, so concepts such as Best Friend and Monogamous Marriage is seen as curiosities, you're either Friends, Acquaintances, Allies or Strangers, and you either are Lovers or not. Same thing with Enemies or Rivals; you either are or aren't, but you are definitely NOT on a pedestal as a One True Rival like how many shounen manga as One True Rivals. Since Moon Keepers keep their family units to themselves, I can see them interpret this very differently from family to family. Also, my Moon Keeper have her preferences and is extremely choosy, since Menphina's teachings do not say that she HAS to take lovers, just that love is love and that's all there is to it. She does try to influence her Sun sisters to take up more lucrative and self-sufficient work that isn't at the whims of men, but she doesn't judge them for taking the careers they have since she entered Ul'dah as a gil-less refuge, after having been tricked into free labor in one of the mines, and was lucky that Momodi picked her up as an errand girl). Come to think of it. Sun Seekers worship "The Warden", and the Nunh's responsibility to his tribe is to protect them. If there is a group of elders in the tribe who calls some of the shots, then their work is to protect the tribe as well. So the important people in Sun Seeking culture are wardens, which would make the others their wards, which I could see why so many females and Tia leave to see how others live, since it can be very frustrating to have to do as another tell them because "it's for your and the tribe's own good". Particularly when they are in their equivalents of 16-25 age range (aka: Rebellious years). Of course, since they've been protected was wards their whole lives, they have limited employment opportunities. Those that were tanners might be able to become leatherworkers, but in a large tribe, I would guess a lot of the work isn't learned by everyone (some hunt, some gather, some cook, some heal and so on), and if they go to a place where their specialty isn't needed, they need to find other ways to support themselves. Since other races have the stereotype of promiscuous catgirls, they might suggest that, and not knowing/being able to see the alternatives due to their sheltered upbringing, the Miqo'te might agree, and the stereotype becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as new arrivals see other Miqo'te do prostitution and join them (particularly in Ul'dah, where they worship money, and in Limsa Lominsa, where pirates, brigands and other bad influences thrive). In contrast, the solitary Moon Keepers have to learn every trick of every trade in order to remain self-sufficient. Oh dear, this became a bit too long and speculative. TL;DR: I wish that we saw Miqo'te in more walks of life, but there might be (speculative) reasons why a large number of Sun Seekers might find themselves in a situation that often leads to entertainment and prostitution. Also, some Moon Keeping headcanon.

Would need details about hardware your computer has. Also if you use any overclocking and boost programs for your graphics card. For what it's worth i've noticed a couple of crashes related to certain elements. Might be that some stuff needs updating to work with the engine will do some research on that. It appears to be definitely more on their end though as far as a programming error. Maybe they'll solve it soon. System details: Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit (6.1, build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.130318-1533) Intel® Core i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz 16366.664MB RAM NVIDIA GeForce GTX 690(VRAM 4014 MB) 9.18.0013.2049 I use Noctua NF-A15 with an extra fan for cooling (from what I could gather, this was the best possible cooler for my system). I use a Samsung SSD 140 PRO for my games, and it's pretty new, but used enough to know that it works like it should (Skyrim, even with cells upped to 7 instead of 5, and with a bunch of HD mods and heavy ENBs loads in a split second, and runs stable and with good temps). Also, it was checked by some computer professionals after the fan installation (the latest one) and stress-tested a lot, and came out stable. Only FFXIV causes any problems (and I have a lot of stuff that can cause problems if there's a hole in the system somewhere). No overclocking since I don't want to risk any overheating or undue stress on the components (but if it fixes these issues, I could overclock CPU to 4GHz), maybe in the future, but right now, it can handle all the games on maximum settings, even with Extra Ultimate Extreme HD MODS . I've heard that both Nvidia and AMD systems have problems, so it's probably a problem from S-E's side. Alternatively, I've heard that it might be fixed with Directx 11. Also, I had a BSoD crash that indicated FFXIV yesterday (but none since then). And flickering seems to definitely appear if I let the log in screen be on for a while (like one or two times through the intro movie), while if I log in almost directly it constrains itself to shimmers of the in-game graphics (the slivers of random textures hovering in midair seems to be gone). I hope the 12 September maintenance can fix some of these issues. I wouldn't overclock, your system should be running at 60+ pretty much all of the time with those specs. I've actually researched into this, because I feel like my game is also running quite poorly compared to other games I can run on high no problem, and it seems there's a few threads of people who have noticed a sudden performance drop on their clients. Unfortunately I didn't see any solutions for this problem. The fact though that your game was working flawlessly is proof that your computer can handle it, and from what you described it sounds like there's a glitch that's severely impacting your performance (possibly a memory leak). Also rereading your initial post, I've just realised that I get the same weird glitches too! My game has crashed a few times due to a system error now. I've had the same client since phase 4 and I've been meaning to do a reinstall to see if it fixes anything (although I'm tempted to just reinstall win7 for that ultra clean feeling). So, sorry but I don't have a solution. Although you're definitely not the only one and it's not something that's wrong with your machine. I see. Thanks anyway for the confirmation that it isn't my computer, because if it was, it would probably take ages to get fixed right now (the place where I send it for repairs/component installations is currently swamped since everyone got back from vacation and found their computers in varying states of disarray). Ah well, fingers crossed for 12th Sept. maintenance.

Would need details about hardware your computer has. Also if you use any overclocking and boost programs for your graphics card. For what it's worth i've noticed a couple of crashes related to certain elements. Might be that some stuff needs updating to work with the engine will do some research on that. It appears to be definitely more on their end though as far as a programming error. Maybe they'll solve it soon. System details: Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit (6.1, build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.130318-1533) Intel® Core i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz 16366.664MB RAM NVIDIA GeForce GTX 690(VRAM 4014 MB) 9.18.0013.2049 I use Noctua NF-A15 with an extra fan for cooling (from what I could gather, this was the best possible cooler for my system). I use a Samsung SSD 140 PRO for my games, and it's pretty new, but used enough to know that it works like it should (Skyrim, even with cells upped to 7 instead of 5, and with a bunch of HD mods and heavy ENBs loads in a split second, and runs stable and with good temps). Also, it was checked by some computer professionals after the fan installation (the latest one) and stress-tested a lot, and came out stable. Only FFXIV causes any problems (and I have a lot of stuff that can cause problems if there's a hole in the system somewhere). No overclocking since I don't want to risk any overheating or undue stress on the components (but if it fixes these issues, I could overclock CPU to 4GHz), maybe in the future, but right now, it can handle all the games on maximum settings, even with Extra Ultimate Extreme HD MODS . I've heard that both Nvidia and AMD systems have problems, so it's probably a problem from S-E's side. Alternatively, I've heard that it might be fixed with Directx 11. Also, I had a BSoD crash that indicated FFXIV yesterday (but none since then). And flickering seems to definitely appear if I let the log in screen be on for a while (like one or two times through the intro movie), while if I log in almost directly it constrains itself to shimmers of the in-game graphics (the slivers of random textures hovering in midair seems to be gone). I hope the 12 September maintenance can fix some of these issues.

Is anyone else having a bunch of latency and graphic bugs after the maintenance? I have shimmering shadows/brightness and textures in all the window modes, and sometimes it appears as if a "sliver" of a texture randomly hovers in the air. Most recently, it was like a cone of bright Ul'dah building exterior texture through the bed when I logged out. I don't get it, everything worked fine on the highest setting on a 60fps cap. Now it is all buggy at even the lowest settings/30fps cap. My temps are 30-40 degrees Celsius and all my drivers are up to date, so it can't be that. Plus, it started today, and seemed to be fine yesterday (was there another maintenance? I didn't get any notification in that case). Antivirus is ordered to keep its mitts away from anything to do with FFXIV, and port forwarding didn't help. Nor does Game Booster. My system benchmarks at 14833 (extremely high) when I have all the settings at the highest in full screen, so it should be able to handle everything.

Thanks for the warm welcome! One of the reasons I picked FFXIV for my first RP experience was because the community seemed welcoming and supportive. I'm glad to see that I was right!

Hi! *waves* I'm pretty new to MMORPGs (dabbled a bit in AION) and completely new to RP. My main character is Mysth Aethernal, a Gridanian Moon Keeper who came to Ul'dah as a refugee. Her family has always been talented in magic, so she will go for all three DoM, but probably only master one (likely White Mage), all the DoL (Botany and Fishing is in her heritage, and she worked the mines as a refugee) and a few of the DoH (mostly stuff that goes with mages, and real life skills like cooking). As a personality, she's shy and reclusive, and after living as a refugee in Ul'dah, she has also become suspicious. She's vain, and dislikes rain, and will be a typical lazy cat if she doesn't watch herself (especially now when she is Momodi Modi's errand girl, you do not want to keep a Modi waiting). Due to working in Ul'dah for diurnal people, she has become mostly diurnal, and suffers from insomnia when there's a full moon. She has a Cait Sith she named Loke that she tries to bring everywhere with her. And that's all I have planned, and stuff might change in the future, since I want her to develop organically.