Your impression

[Loc Talon]

I for one am glad we are unable to jump.

Coming from WoW, I've seen enough perma-jump idiots for a lifetime :frustrated:

 

I can see where you come from, having also come from five years of WoW. But, I try not to look at it that way. There were also alot of perma-naked dancing idiots in WoW, does that mean that we should not be able to manually remove pieces of equipment or be able to dance?

 

I mean, not being able to jump is certainly not a game-breaker, by any means, but it would certainly add a more sense of realism to the game if our characters could move as we do IRL. There isn't some magical force holding to the ground as is, if you wanted to you could jump.

 

I ccompletelly agree, whole-heartedly, about the abundance of "perma-jump idiots" in WoW. But, I don't feel that we should limit ourselves based on the simple-minded actions of others, if we had any any control over it that is.

[Satisiun]

I can see where you come from, having also come from five years of WoW. But, I try not to look at it that way. There were also alot of perma-naked dancing idiots in WoW, does that mean that we should not be able to manually remove pieces of equipment or be able to dance?

 

I mean, not being able to jump is certainly not a game-breaker, by any means, but it would certainly add a more sense of realism to the game if our characters could move as we do IRL. There isn't some magical force holding to the ground as is, if you wanted to you could jump.

 

I ccompletelly agree, whole-heartedly, about the abundance of "perma-jump idiots" in WoW. But, I don't feel that we should limit ourselves based on the simple-minded actions of others, if we had any any control over it that is.

 

Well. If you really want to use the realism defense ...

 

Have you considered, however, the vast difference between styles of graphics and character coordination and movements between games like WoW, Aion, and FFXIV?

 

Look, for example, at how characters in the former two games basically jump on a dime. There's no sort of motion to it, no realism, or visible representation of the character pushing off of their feet and jumping. Largely due to those game's lesser graphics (and yes, I say that about Aion, since the only thing special was character customization and "OH GOD HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ON MY SCREEN AT ONCE!" during forts), they're incapable (or unwilling) to implement the motion of a character pushing off the ground in an actual jumping motion. They just suddenly are off the ground, arms in the air.

 

Look at FFXIV. Notice how basically even just turning one way to another requires the character to push off of a foot, or veer back? Or how about how they actually slow to a trot and then stop, instead of stopping the split second you let go of the key you're pressing to move them forward, back, or side to side.

 

This might all sound somewhat tangent-y, but basically the point I am making is that FFXIV is aiming for more realistic motions of characters than either of those games. Because of this, whether jumping should or should not be implemented is less the question, and whether it can or can't be implemented in a way that keeps the realistic movements the game is aiming for with characters in motion.

 

I don't mean any offense by saying all this, of course. I respect that some people want jumping. But based off the style of game this is, and again, the way the characters are designed to move, I have to also respectfully disagree.

[Vond]

I think I've settled firmly into the large camp of, "I like the feel of the game and am enjoying getting into it, but I think some basic design improvements are drastically needed." Mainly, as others have brought up, a way to manage action bars (and hopefully gear sets) for your different classes without having to concoct macros (and thus having to rework those macros every new job rank that gives you an ability). Right now it is a time-consuming annoyance. At higher levels, with more abilities (especially cross-class abilities that you would want to edit into multiple jobs) and more specialized gear sets, we could be talking three/four macros worth of frustration for every class you want to invest in. I would much rather spend that time exploring new abilities and gear, finding out how they work and how I can apply them to gameplay. The difficulty level is fine, and the involved setup system is fine... just give me a streamlined way to save those setups, please.

 

This is coming from the perspective of someone who typically invests roughly 50/50 in RP/gameplay. I will say I spent a little time yesterday running around in a part of 3 with friends and that was fun. I think it seems promising, and I look forward to making a stronger party and being able to explore further. We've occasionally stumbled across some gave or island full of scary but interesting monsters we don't stand a chance against yet.

[Loc Talon]

Well. If you really want to use the realism defense ...

 

Have you considered, however, the vast difference between styles of graphics and character coordination and movements between games like WoW, Aion, and FFXIV?

 

Look, for example, at how characters in the former two games basically jump on a dime. There's no sort of motion to it, no realism, or visible representation of the character pushing off of their feet and jumping. Largely due to those game's lesser graphics (and yes, I say that about Aion, since the only thing special was character customization and "OH GOD HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ON MY SCREEN AT ONCE!" during forts), they're incapable (or unwilling) to implement the motion of a character pushing off the ground in an actual jumping motion. They just suddenly are off the ground, arms in the air.

 

Look at FFXIV. Notice how basically even just turning one way to another requires the character to push off of a foot, or veer back? Or how about how they actually slow to a trot and then stop, instead of stopping the split second you let go of the key you're pressing to move them forward, back, or side to side.

 

This might all sound somewhat tangent-y, but basically the point I am making is that FFXIV is aiming for more realistic motions of characters than either of those games. Because of this, whether jumping should or should not be implemented is less the question, and whether it can or can't be implemented in a way that keeps the realistic movements the game is aiming for with characters in motion.

 

I don't mean any offense by saying all this, of course. I respect that some people want jumping. But based off the style of game this is, and again, the way the characters are designed to move, I have to also respectfully disagree.

 

I would have to disagree. We have already seen videos that depict characters jumping in various cutscenes, as well as the fact that there are several in-game actions that depict jumping(Pugilist's Seismic Wave attack, for example). The animations are there, which is the most difficult aspect of implementing new actions into a game. It's just a matter applying those animations to code and binding them to a key. Taking the amount of detail that have been implemented into the game thus far and the intricacies of the various actions already implement, I would say that it's safe to assume that SquareEnix is more than capable of a simple jumping action.

 

But, regardless, this is merely something that I would -like- to see implemented and is, in no way, something is "Ohmahgawd, game breaker". I would much rather them fix the design flaws in the Game mechanics before they go on to implement new actions. If it does end up getting implemented, great. If not, that's fine too, so long as the other issues are addressed.

[Satrina]

Im having Mixed opinions, But my sister has given her opinion about it. Which seems to be clear

 

"1) I can't redefine my keys to anything meaningful for me rendering it playable.

2) The game crawls even in enclosed buildings unless I turn the settings down to mega low.

3) The downloader is broken as all fuck.

4) The mouse makes it unplayable to play and I still haven't seen any responce that it would be fixed yet.

5) They couldn't even keep a server up for longer than 5 minutes to give out keys, this doesn't bode well for anything pertaining to a game come release.

6) I have not read a single thing about how the game actually plays in practice that is positive. Everything I've read that's negative goes into great detail and everything I've read that's positive just says "IT'S NOT THAT BAD YOU GUYS" without actually debunking anything.

7) From SE's track record with FFIX I'm pretty sure the game will not be fixed."

 

Just to harp on these points: *Ahem*

 

1- Keybinding seems to be a possibility now with the menu option. The keys arnt that horrible really right now but I love to keybind as well

2-That's a computer issue not the game, the game is meant for very high end systems right now, just like FFXI was. WoW is the polar opposite and can be played on your grandmothers Win95 Dell.

3-This is annoying, luckily you can easily work around it by using the torrents

4-Mouse doesn't make it unplayable, you don't really even need the mouse, and I have had no issue with it so far. If anything there will more then likely be a hardware mouse that fans create

5-Nothing new here, most if not all companies do not have a server that can work that amount of traffic all at once. There were 10's of thousands of people trying to burst through at once, the site WILL go down.

6-85% of all negative press is a result of misinformation. The other 15% is legit and we have been told is being worked on in some parts. No MMO has ever launched at 100% efficiency. Even WoW launched as a shitpile.

7-Their track record of them fixing some major issues with FFXI? A lot of the early complaints when RoZ was the only expansion were tweaked eventually. It did take a long time but SE seems to have wised up on this and understand that unhappy players will leave and most likely not come back. Does that mean the game should cater 100% to your likes? No, that's ignorant.

 

I would have to disagree. We have already seen videos that depict characters jumping in various cutscenes, as well as the fact that there are several in-game actions that depict jumping(Pugilist's Seismic Wave attack, for example). The animations are there, which is the most difficult aspect of implementing new actions into a game. It's just a matter applying those animations to code and binding them to a key. Taking the amount of detail that have been implemented into the game thus far and the intricacies of the various actions already implement, I would say that it's safe to assume that SquareEnix is more than capable of a simple jumping action.

 

They would have to go back and rescale a lot of the environment currently so that you could still not bypass if you jumped. Why is jumping such a big deal? It's never put ANYTHING into the game other then 1 or 2 jumping puzzles in a dungeon that screw over people who might lag "Hi Draupnirs Cave!". There's no reason you HAVE to jump...ever. How often are you jumping around in real life? Ever tried doing that in full body armor or a robe? Which raises another issue, clothing would have to be tweaked so it didn't clip while doing a jump animation or it would just look sloppy. I

 

Name me 1 reason jumping should be a standard in MMOs. Coming from WoW 99% of the time I used the jump key it was out of boredom and bouncing around.

[Loc Talon]

They would have to go back and rescale a lot of the environment currently so that you could still not bypass if you jumped. Why is jumping such a big deal? It's never put ANYTHING into the game other then 1 or 2 jumping puzzles in a dungeon that screw over people who might lag "Hi Draupnirs Cave!". There's no reason you HAVE to jump...ever.

 

First of all, I would like to, once again, mention that it is something that I would -like- to see. I would also like to point out my orginial post that the topic "to jump or not to jump" was spawned from and the fact that it was listed under "RP Cons", meaning...It's something that I would like to see to compliment to the realism and immersion that they have already incorporated, not for game mechanics.

 

I will also go ahead and address the common rebutal to this...

 

"Why do you need jumping to RP?"

You don't. But, I feel that it adds to immersion for your character to physically be able to jump, without an emote and have a visual representation. I can provide a list of instances where a jumping animation would benefit RP, if need be.

 

How often are you jumping around in real life?

When you are in live combat, I can assure you, that you are jumping quite a bit.

When you are scaling cliffs, there are situations that call for jumping.

I went cliff diving two days ago that required a good deal of jumping.

That is just three of many examples that I could provide.

 

Ever tried doing that in full body armor or a robe?

I'm assuming that you are referring to the weight of "full body armor" in this question...

Contrary to popular belief, the suits of armor that Knights wore in combat, between the 14th and 16th century were. The typical full suit of armor, worn in combat, during those times was between

60 and 70 lbs and the combatants were trained from a young age to jump, crawl, climb, etc. In their full attire.(I can provide sources if necissary). The whole "Armor suits weigh hundreds of pounds" is a myth that was partially due to the fact that sport armor(for jousting, etc.) was significantly heavy than the actual open battle attire, due to various, obvious, reasons.

 

I'm not sure what the robe reference was for...assuming it's made from cloth, and not weigh much more than your typical clothes, and thus really wouldn't be that hard to jump in.

 

Which raises another issue' date=' clothing would have to be tweaked so it didn't clip while doing a jump animation or it would just look sloppy.[/quote']

I'm still not entirely sure what you were trying to say here...In 3D Graphic Animation, all "clipping" is, is removing parts of a given scene, of which there are two types External and Interanl. Mostly used in game for the rendering of landscape detail(the effect that takes place when foliage disappears beyond a certain view distance), which is used for system performance optimization and decreasing lag. I don't understand how this method has anything to do with the polygons of an object and how they would respond to a given animation. Also, it would only look sloppy if they had a crappy 3D animator, which clearly the game shows that the animators they've chosen are quite animated. I would also, once again, like to point out that there are already jumping elements in-game(again, pugilist's Seismic Shock, for example). When your character jumps in that animation it does not look "sloppy" and looks, to me, to be rather seamless with the rest of the graphic design.

 

Name me 1 reason jumping should be a standard in MMOs. Coming from WoW 99% of the time I used the jump key it was out of boredom and bouncing around.

 

To jump down cliffs and embankments, so that you don't have to run a mile down the road just to find an opening in the landscape, so that you can get to the mob or nod that you need for that leve quest. I can't tell you how many times I've been mining, and I find the node that I need, just a couple feet underneath me. But, due to the lack of jumping and abundance of invisible walls, I was forced to run alllll the way around, to the other side of the gigantic crater, and then back up the other side to mine the node. A 5-10 minutes wasted that could have been avoided, providing the aforemention conditions were not in place. But, like I said, my wish is purely for the sake of aesthetic and not game mechanics.

 

EDIT: I went back and read this and I would like to apologize for "smug" overtone in it. Was not my intended tone. Curse you text based communications! <3

[Nikolai]

They also have the unrealistic lack of a falling motion, similar to FFXI. On cliffs that you CAN drop down from, your character just awkwardly descends, and it looks funky. You don't even skip a beat in your running animation.

[Hayden]

Just managed to get some play time in the Beta yesterday and today. I must say all if not MOST of my fears and worries have been put to rest. I am really enjoying the game. It's beautiful, it's intuitive and its fun. No complaints from me really.

[Tagyr]

Adding jumping would be useful for crossing those small cliffs and such. Even if it was restricted to FF13s level, Where you interact with areas to jump across rather than jump on the stop for no reason like in WoW. Basically only jumping where they want you to jump. That way they can retain the areas they don't want people to somehow jump to, and allow people to get to one place or another quicker.

 

Adding a jump key somehow brings me a vision of hundreds of lalafell jumping all over the place, as they have to be tweaked in order to be able to jump as high as other races, which brings a funny image to my head.

[Freyar]

Adding jumping would be useful for crossing those small cliffs and such. Even if it was restricted to FF13s level, Where you interact with areas to jump across rather than jump on the stop for no reason like in WoW. Basically only jumping where they want you to jump. That way they can retain the areas they don't want people to somehow jump to, and allow people to get to one place or another quicker.

 

Adding a jump key somehow brings me a vision of hundreds of lalafell jumping all over the place, as they have to be tweaked in order to be able to jump as high as other races, which brings a funny image to my head.

 

The problem with XIII's method is that it didn't integrate well. It was far too removed from a natural flow from the animation. I really don't think the team doing XIV would be able to do that properly.

[Eeam]

Honestly, when was the last time you jumped or hurdled yourself over things taller than you are? I'm just saying if you want to use the realism argument, then try to factor in the fact that our characters will be wearing heavy armor and/or carrying heavy gear. Vaulting yourself six feet into the air while wearing a full metal suit of armor and a heavy harpoon just looks... Stupid. :I

 

 

(Unless of course you're a Dragoon.)

[Freyar]

(Unless of course you're a Dragoon.)

 

... but.. everyone is a Dragoon! Didn't you get your gem?

[Loc Talon]

Honestly, when was the last time you jumped or hurdled yourself over things taller than you are? I'm just saying if you want to use the realism argument, then try to factor in the fact that our characters will be wearing heavy armor and/or carrying heavy gear. Vaulting yourself six feet into the air while wearing a full metal suit of armor and a heavy harpoon just looks... Stupid. :I

 

 

(Unless of course you're a Dragoon.)

 

Someone else made the "heavy armor" argument earlier. The thing with that is, most armor and weaponry is really not that heavy at all. As I refrenced earlier, the armor that medieval Knights wore in most parts of the world between the 14th and 16th century only weighed between 60 and 70 lbs, that's a full set of plate armor. The "Heavy Armor" myth started from jousting sport armor, which was significantly heavier than field armor, because manueverability wasn't as big of an issue as it was in open warfare.

 

In that regard, DDO had an interesting mechanic that took into consideration the type of armor that you wore. Someone wearing cloth or leather would be much more mobile(i.e. able to jump higher/farther and move quicker) than someone wearing plate. Just a thought.

 

I'm not quite sure where the "Jumping over things taller than you" came from, as no one really mentioned anything(in this thread) quite that extreme. But, although extreme, it is not impossible. Watching the summer olympics is a clear sign of that. Though, I cannot speak for everyone else, personally, I wouldn't expect to be able to jump to the point of that extremity. But, I would expect a means to get over a two-three foot wall, as opposed to running all the way around.

 

With that said, again, I would like to point out the Pugilist ability "Seismic Shock", where the character does, in fact, leap a good six-seven feet in the air and this can be performed while wearing a full metal suit of armor.

[Satrina]

When you are in live combat, I can assure you, that you are jumping quite a bit.

When you are scaling cliffs, there are situations that call for jumping.

I went cliff diving two days ago that required a good deal of jumping.

That is just three of many examples that I could provide.

To jump down cliffs and embankments, so that you don't have to run a mile down the road just to find an opening in the landscape, so that you can get to the mob or nod that you need for that leve quest. I can't tell you how many times I've been mining, and I find the node that I need, just a couple feet underneath me. But, due to the lack of jumping and abundance of invisible walls, I was forced to run alllll the way around, to the other side of the gigantic crater, and then back up the other side to mine the node. A 5-10 minutes wasted that could have been avoided, providing the aforemention conditions were not in place. But, like I said, my wish is purely for the sake of aesthetic and not game mechanics.

 

EDIT: I went back and read this and I would like to apologize for "smug" overtone in it. Was not my intended tone. Curse you text based communications! <3

 

Don't worry about smug overtone, I come off as an asshole all the time

 

But about your points: Scaling cliffs and cliff diving do not equate to live combat. While I know live combat nowadays requires a lot of movement and mobility, the reason we can do that is due to the body armor allowing flexibility. Think how much effort it would take to jump in chainmail or plate, also even jumping down a 2-3ft ledge to the ground might blow out your ankles and knees, the human body is not made for walking upright and has quite a few flaws in that regard.

 

Jumping would alleviate a lot of the pain of having to travel around certain spots, but there's a reason behind it too. If FFXI had had jumping, you could have easily just jumped into Byakko's spawn location without having to go through the building and watch as retards died due to no sneak oils.

 

Someone else made the "heavy armor" argument earlier. The thing with that is, most armor and weaponry is really not that heavy at all. As I refrenced earlier, the armor that medieval Knights wore in most parts of the world between the 14th and 16th century only weighed between 60 and 70 lbs, that's a full set of plate armor.

 

70pds might not seem like a lot because it's pretty easy to lift that...but try to imagine it resting on your shoulders, head and weighing you down WHILE you engage in combat and fatigue. Also try picking up 70 pds and jumping 4ft down a ledge, actually don't because you'd blow out something.

[Loc Talon]

Don't worry about smug overtone' date=' I come off as an asshole all the time [/quote']

 

Whew! I was worried about that. I tend to get very professional and straight-forward when it comes to debates(something I picked up from debate and critical thinking classes in college). And, due to the lack of vocal tone, it comes off as smug, ass-hatery. =D

 

Scaling cliffs and cliff diving do not equate to live combat.

Oh no, of course not. This I agree with completelly. I was merely listing those as additional examples of occasions or situations in real-life that we would use jumping.

 

While I know live combat nowadays requires a lot of movement and mobility' date=' the reason we can do that is due to the body armor allowing flexibility. Think how much effort it would take to jump in chainmail or plate, also even jumping down a 2-3ft ledge to the ground might blow out your ankles and knees, the human body is not made for walking upright and has quite a few flaws in that regard.[/quote']

Well, although we have better technology now-a-days, contrary to popular belief, battle armor of the middle ages was designed with the same mobility in mind. Knights of that time were trained to jump, crawl, climb, etc. comfortably in their armor.

 

I would also have to strongly disagree with blowing an ankle out from jumping over a 2-3 ft ledge in armor. The full battle dress used by the US armed forces today actually weighs quite a bit more(roughly 90 lbs) than the armor suits worn by Knights of the old. Being a serving member of the armed forces, I had to frequently scale walls, jump ledges, crawl through mud, swing on ropes, vault myself over walls, etc. in full battle dress and I never blew out an ankle and my knees are fine. With that in mind, there's no way that you could blow out an ankle by jumping off a 2-3 ft ledge in a suit of armor, -unless- you land on it wrong, but that can be easily accomplished even without armor.

 

Jumping would alleviate a lot of the pain of having to travel around certain spots' date=' but there's a reason behind it too. If FFXI had had jumping, you could have easily just jumped into Byakko's spawn location without having to go through the building and watch as retards died due to no sneak oils. [/quote']

 

Admittedly, I only played XI for all of two weeks and I'm clueless of the area you're talking about. But, that type is issue that the age old Invisible Wall couldn't fix, there's already an invisible wall erected around every cliff or small ledge in Aldenard, so it wouldn't be hard to take out the ones that are unecissary and leave the ones that are. This sort of "selective wall" method has been used by various game developers for years and has proven to do the trick in those sort of situations. This sort of mechanic is easily implemented and takes very little resources.

 

70pds might not seem like a lot because it's pretty easy to lift that...but try to imagine it resting on your shoulders' date=' head and weighing you down WHILE you engage in combat and fatigue. Also try picking up 70 pds and jumping 4ft down a ledge, actually don't because you'd blow out something.[/quote']

 

60-70 lbs is still on the high end, I chose to use the high-end measurement for the sake of making the point. Most historians agree that the average weight was typically between 45-60 lbs. Also, as mentioned above, I have done the things that you've mentioned above...alot. Combat training, maneuver excercises, etc with 90 lbs of gear strapped to my back and through out the rest of my body. Even then, that is taking the -light- combat gear(being the warm weather gear). The cold weather attire weighs a good 10 lbs more than that.

 

So, speaking from experience, It is possible and easily done. -Especially-, when you are regularly running, jumping, and fighting in the said attire.

[Asyria]

In short, our characters are Adventurers in a world where it's safe to assume that people are generally in better physical shape than most people are in the real world. Add to that the physical particularities of each race and it's not even realistic to compare them with us, anymore.

[Xzenivar]

 

70pds might not seem like a lot because it's pretty easy to lift that...but try to imagine it resting on your shoulders' date=' head and weighing you down WHILE you engage in combat and fatigue. Also try picking up 70 pds and jumping 4ft down a ledge, actually don't because you'd blow out something.[/quote']

 

60-70 lbs is still on the high end, I chose to use the high-end measurement for the sake of making the point. Most historians agree that the average weight was typically between 45-60 lbs. Also, as mentioned above, I have done the things that you've mentioned above...alot. Combat training, maneuver excercises, etc with 90 lbs of gear strapped to my back and through out the rest of my body. Even then, that is taking the -light- combat gear(being the warm weather gear). The cold weather attire weighs a good 10 lbs more than that.

 

So, speaking from experience, It is possible and easily done. -Especially-, when you are regularly running, jumping, and fighting in the said attire.

 

I just wanted to add on, having similar experience, that when wearing this sort of armor, it doesn't necessarily feel like you're wearing that much, as when you're wearing such armor thats fitted and strapped on correctly, the weight distribution makes it much lighter and easier to move around in. Combine that with long periods of training (such as pages->squires->knights) it may feel like a natural part of your body.

[Loc Talon]

In short' date=' our characters are Adventurers in a world where it's safe to assume that people are generally in better physical shape than most people are in the real world. Add to that the physical particularities of each race and it's not even realistic to compare them with us, anymore.[/quote']

 

Which only adds to the point that the characters and adventurers in question would be able to feasibly be able to jump and maneuver in their combat attire. If we are able to do it, then certainly the general characters and adventurers mentioned would be able to do it as well, with no difficulties.

 

 

I just wanted to add on' date=' having similar experience, that when wearing this sort of armor, it doesn't necessarily [i']feel [/i] like you're wearing that much, as when you're wearing such armor thats fitted and strapped on correctly, the weight distribution makes it much lighter and easier to move around in. Combine that with long periods of training (such as pages->squires->knights) it may feel like a natural part of your body.

 

That is completelly correct. Not to mention the fact that 50-60 lbs is really not that heavy to begin with and, as you pointed out, it would feel even less when distributed through out your body.

[TeeBeeDee]

In regards to jumping, you're all right. There is real jumping and then there is the Video game jumping. Yes a person could do a standing jump with 45 lbs of armor on, but being able to jump 1/3rd of your height is not what videogames do, they grant you the ability to jump 5-6ft. The problem then becomes race proportions and unintended access. a 3ft character would not likely jump the same height as a 7ft character.

 

Imagine a group of designers agonizing over the exact height of what a jump should be, then trying to think of how they could make sure that this jump is not exploited to gain access to unintended places or to fall through the world. At some point one person says, "Is there any place in the game people have to jump to get to?" After a few moments the general consensus is "no". Thus jumping gets cut for the sake of the greater good.

 

Invisible walls though.....those I could live without, if you wanna do something dumb like run off a cliff. Well, you have fun doing that, however the same rules of unintended accesss or falling through the world still apply.

 

my 2 cents.

[Loc Talon]

In regards to jumping, you're all right. There is real jumping and then there is the Video game jumping. Yes a person could do a standing jump with 45 lbs of armor on, but being able to jump 1/3rd of your height is not what videogames do, they grant you the ability to jump 5-6ft. The problem then becomes race proportions and unintended access. a 3ft character would not likely jump the same height as a 7ft character.

 

Imagine a group of designers agonizing over the exact height of what a jump should be, then trying to think of how they could make sure that this jump is not exploited to gain access to unintended places or to fall through the world. At some point one person says, "Is there any place in the game people have to jump to get to?" After a few moments the general consensus is "no". Thus jumping gets cut for the sake of the greater good.

 

Invisible walls though.....those I could live without, if you wanna do something dumb like run off a cliff. Well, you have fun doing that, however the same rules of unintended accesss or falling through the world still apply.

 

my 2 cents.

 

Some valid points you bring up here. However...Jumping in video games is not some new mechanic that requires as much thought process as everyone seems to assume.

 

SE have openly stated that they have taken several pointers in their game design from Age of Conan, WoW, Diablo, and Warhammer. All of which(with the exception of Diablo) have keybound jumping. I would also like to point out, that many games that involve jumping had little to no areas that required jumping to get to. On release, WoW had one location that you -had- to jump, and that was the Wailing Caverns. Generally, a jumping action is just an added aesthetic.

 

My argument is not for game mechanics...Just implementation of certain actions that help to contribute and expand on immersion. Common actions that we would be able to perform, if we -were- our characters, living a day in the life on Eorzea.

 

We would be able to swim.

We would be able to jump.

We would be able screw up somewhere, lose our footing maybe, and fall off a cliff without a magical "safety net" erected around every pitfall.

 

These are minor features that, if added, would simply add the immersion of the game, whether they have any "purpose" or not.

 

As for invisible walls...There's already one erected around and throughout the entire continent. See that cliff? Invisible wall. Small embankment? Invisible wall. See the coastline? Invisible wall. Bridge? Invisible wall. I'm not a fan of invisible walls either...Because they detract from immersion. But, I would MUCH rather them take out the crap ton of walls that they already have and minimize their usage for the sheer purpoe of keeping players out of areas they don't want them in, which also begs the question of "why are those areas are in the game to begin with?"

 

In short...Adding a jump command is not some daunting task, game developers have proven this for several years now(Both in MMOs and in console games). It is not a new concept and is not as difficult to implement as it may seem.

[Satrina]

Also keep in mind, from what I can remember, no Final Fantasy game has had jumping in it. Talking free form jumping, not jumping at designated spots in the world. The reason this is not in the game would probably be due to potential problems, such as 4-6 ppl arriving at a jump spot at the same time and needing to wait in line as each person jumps across. I believe collision detection is on for characters, cant remember from beta, but that would create an issue after the jump occurred. I just see no real benefit to jumping in an MMO as it's never implemented to add an additional layer of challenge and is just cosmetic.

[Alvaruz]

Well, I have been playing quite a lot in the last two days and I must admit that more you play the game, more you catch the little tricks and more the game is fun.

 

Alright, everyone, or mostly, believes there's some side-quests hidden, so that will be more content and I will never refuse some...

 

But my scary feelings, my depression over the game mechanics is going away softly. I am ready for launch and today, I will try with the help of my linkshell to craft my self a Bronze Labrys!

[Gossamer]

There's a lot of little polish I still believe the game needs, and I really, really hope SE makes targeting more user friendly. But really, I am so psyched for this game. The only thing that has me worried is the amount of content that is currently available. Oh, I have no doubt that more is coming, I just wonder how long it will take after release.

[Loc Talon]

Also keep in mind' date=' from what I can remember, no Final Fantasy game has had jumping in it. Talking free form jumping, not jumping at designated spots in the world. The reason this is not in the game would probably be due to potential problems, such as 4-6 ppl arriving at a jump spot at the same time and needing to wait in line as each person jumps across. I believe collision detection is on for characters, cant remember from beta, but that would create an issue after the jump occurred. I just see no real benefit to jumping in an MMO as it's never implemented to add an additional layer of challenge and is just cosmetic.[/quote']

 

I'm not entirely sure about the Final Fantasy franchise, but I know that SE has released several games(Both RPG and other) that had free form jumping. What is implemented in game is what I like to call "minor collision detection". Meaning, that you are not completelly restricted from passing through people. What happens, is that when you run into someone, you stop for a little bit(as if they were a solid object), but, after less than a second, you pass on through them.

 

I would like to point out your last sentence...

 

I just see no real benefit to jumping in an MMO as it's never implemented to add an additional layer of challenge and is just cosmetic.

 

This has been my arguement the whole time. As I have said, repeatedly, I am not speaking from a game mechanic point of view or giving it a definative "purpose" in the game. I am speaking in regards to aesthetic, from an RP stand point, from an immersion stand point, from a realism stand point.(yes, I'm using the realism argument again, I think I've provided more than enough valid points for this argument). From these stand points, we can jump IRL, our characters should be able to jump in-game. -Unless-, they provide some sort of official Lore as to why we cannot.

 

I am still not completelly sure why everything in the game has to have some definative "purpose", "benefit" or have anything to do with the game play...If that is the case...Emotes should not be in the game. The ability to sit should not be in the game. The slew of completelly empty caves(no mobs, no quarry points)...should not be in the game. 90% of the NPCs in Limsa Lominsa, should not be in the game. I can keep going, but I will stop there for the sake of length.

 

My point is, not everything in a game has to have a "purpose". SE has already implemented elements that have no "purpose" and have clearly thrown in purely for the sake of immersion and RP. Even the Quests(not Guildleves) have no -real- purpose to the game, other than advancing the storyline, which adds to immersion. I just finished the second story quest and it was nothing but cutscenes and dialogue. No fighting. No skill ups. No experience points. No unlocks. All you get for completing it is Gil. Not that I have an issue with this, but as far as the overall game mechanics is concerned, it serves no real purpose.

 

To that end, it is something that I would merely like to see implemented at some point, along with the other seven "RP Cons" that I listed on page three. Is it something that is going to prevent me from paying for the game? Not in the slightest.

 

I also included seven "Game Mechanic Cons" in that same post. Isolated, those Cons mentioned are not game breakers, in and of themselves. But, collectively, for me, they will determine if I continue to play the game for an extended amount of time, if left unchecked, after release. For whatever reason, the fact that I mentioned "I would like to see them add a jump button, rather than our character be forever glued to the terrain" is what everyone picked up on, out of the fourteen Cons that I had mentioned.

[Satrina]

This has been my arguement the whole time. As I have said, repeatedly, I am not speaking from a game mechanic point of view or giving it a definative "purpose" in the game. I am speaking in regards to aesthetic, from an RP stand point, from an immersion stand point, from a realism stand point.(yes, I'm using the realism argument again, I think I've provided more than enough valid points for this argument). From these stand points, we can jump IRL, our characters should be able to jump in-game. -Unless-, they provide some sort of official Lore as to why we cannot.

 

That's fine and all, but realism in a fantasy MMO setting doesn't work sometimes. Games, movies and books require us to put aside what we know is fact about the real world and suspend our belief.

 

Perhaps the gravity is 20x greater in Eorzea, perhaps the armor is heavier then real armor, perhaps the fictional races are not built for jumping, perhaps our characters all have lame knees or tore a ligament in track&field. :study:

 

There are thousands of reasons you could even make up for why your character can not jump RPwise, and you don't need to be able to jump to RP effectively.

 

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