Momoni

I thought we cleared this up... 1) That's just the nature of the internet. There are really no other RP sites for FFXIV, so naturally this is the one that comes up, and thus the one people will go to. 2) To be fair, Balmung (then Besaid) was voted on, just like this poll here, by the community at the time. So to say this is what "he" wanted is a bit "unfair", as you put it. I am not trying to hold it against you, but it appears that an opposing opinion is consistently seen as something evil. Instead of being treated as an individual, I'm treated as some other person or group or people that I've never even met. I am passionate about what I've said. You say my points were noted - but I felt deflected because, well, you brushed me off. I feel what I've said, while carrying an abrasive tone after everything that happened in the Gilgamesh thread, is still valid. What my passion means is that I care - about enjoying RP and others enjoying RP. My experience has taught me that there's idealistic self righteousness in RP and there's realism. I care, and if that gets me banned because I've targeted you, well, it's not fine but we both know all you have to do is prove my points wrong, accept them as valid without telling me to go make my own forum or, ideally, adapt the site into a true RP hub or server specific site, and I'd gladly wander off. But I came here knowing, also from experience, that there was just as likely a chance that I'd be banned for my first post, as I would be not banned. So it is not something that I've spent a lot of time worrying about. As long as I'm heard, the idea exists for a better future as I see it. I am not.

Almost. I'm saying a poll shouldn't be used to decree something as unofficial. I said(if you read the Gilgamesh thread), a poll should be used to gauge interest and anything within a relevant statistic(known as statistical significance)(15%) should be given a voice. From there, if you use the RPC as an RP hub, you give that community a place where people can meet. I addressed points of community togetherness, and how people don't need 100's or 1000's of people around to enjoy RP. Nobody has needed that for over 10 years, since MSN group chat shut down. People are just as happy with 20 as they are with 100. I noted that communities within communities(with a context ill explain) don't work. What this means, in the way I'm saying it, is that in large RP communities(WoW, and for those old enough to remember, teenchat, eyechat, msn groups, rpghost) will gain groups/guilds/kingdoms/clans, and these will conflict. In normal RP(the last few) it's not an issue for your character to die. In groups like WoW guilds, guilds don't want to adhere to rules like this, and will harass others while refusing to be treated as an entity that can be challenged. It breeds elitism and dissonance, and more often then not communities will RP within their guilds as opposed to with other people(invalidating the idea that keeping the community together is even necessary). When you reach this point of understanding how RP communities work closing them into one area is known as a bad idea, because they will separate into their own states. Letting people flourish where they want without this potential harassment and inevitable elitism, while giving them a voice if they reach statistical significance, is both valid and healthy. Condemning that while calling yourself a hub for role play is what results in things like we have now - fractures. I noted this and told the moderators that they need to adapt to these things, not overlook them or ignore them. They need to adapt and survive, or centralize their advertisement away from a role play hub and into a balmung only forum - otherwise the community will decay and die. That is inevitable. Three years under your belt doesn't make you immortal.

My issue is - none of what anyone else is saying(moderators included) is what the admin is saying. He's made a clear stance that this is a Balmung centric site, and that anybody that disagrees can leave. No suggestions, no opinions, nothing. Discontent is met with a door and that's not fair. I don't have hopes for the community under that leadership, so I'll be sticking with Gilgamesh despite people leaving the server eventually. You've been here one day and you're already trying to call out leadership. Lemme break this down one last time. I spoke to the leadership. That literally happened - the Gilgamesh thread is there for you to read from. I made valid points, and the admin dismissed them after telling me "there's the door". My complaint, then, at being dismissed and push away after making both valid points and addressing legitimate concerns, is also valid. Saying "you're starting shit" boggles my mind. because I'm not the person you've been dealing with. (this is for everyone else too telling me I'm some evil aggressor because I don't agree with this or that point.) I'm not the people. I'm entirely new, but I've been called this and that and condescended first. I didn't come in throwing punches - I came in and asked a simple question and was told I was rude for it. Stop treating me like someone else. I'm not them. I'm new. Just because I'm saying something similar to them doesn't make me them and doesn't validate you judging me like them. That's uncalled for, rude, and invalidates every self righteous comment about 'aggressors' and 'being mean'. I came here to address points and concerns, and was attacked. And continue to be attacked as the bad person by a community that's telling me it's totally composed of good people. No, but they sell themselves as a hub. Which is my big issue with how the admin runs things. He made sure to make a point(Gilgamesh thread, again), that this site is the first google result when searching for FF14 RP. He made sure to let everyone know that with this poll, it is being done because of the demand, not because he wants to and that he will emphasize Balmung. He's telling me, and you. All of us. That this site will hold a sort of authority, because of its easy ability to be found, and that he wants to use that authority to promote what he wants while pretending the site is an RP hub. It's sold that way. In fact, one moderator was confused as to why it was openly considered a hub when she wanted it to be server centric, another didn't see why it would be a centric place when it served as a hub.(Gilgamesh thread), so no, my complaint that nobody(moderators anyways) agrees with what he's saying is also valid. I never said we needed new leadership. I said "why not include everyone" and was told "too many people", so I said "get more moderators" and it all broke down. This degraded from me asking a question. I didn't come in, shooting guns at everyone. I was never the bad guy. You, as they did, have attacked me on sight. But it's been heavily implied that you won't have a community to support you if you don't. You've misinterpreted everything you've read about me. As I said to another person - context is important. Follow it, if you need me to stop and explain something to you I can but attacking me? That's not fair. I made valid points. All of which you misinterpreted completely. I said valid things, and his response was to tell me to make my own website. He showed me the door when I brought up valid issues. That's not fair, that's deflecting, that's saying "yeah, those are probably true, but I don't care because I have my website"

My issue is - none of what anyone else is saying(moderators included) is what the admin is saying. He's made a clear stance that this is a Balmung centric site, and that anybody that disagrees can leave. No suggestions, no opinions, nothing. Discontent is met with a door and that's not fair. I don't have hopes for the community under that leadership, so I'll be sticking with Gilgamesh despite people leaving the server eventually.

Sure but the fracture is happening. From what I can gather it starts with Behemoth and extends to what we have right ehre right now. So the question is: is this a role play coalition for ff14 or is it a balmung centered roleplay community? Because we're about to be past the point where you can be both.

I'm not sure how this is unfair. 40 people is not a lot of people. We've had a lot of new people coming to the RPC in the last two months, and those people are getting their vote. If we had more than 40 votes for two different servers, I don't see why it wouldn't be appropriate to have a section for each of those servers. We do have a minimum in place to make it relevant. But it's being advertised as only one server. I don't see why the restriction would exist either but we were informed that it does. Have people sound off on the official server with their account here? With the influx of people coming in with the last beta weekend as well as the people that simply never bothered to register(like the Behemoth people) you're looking at a lot of votes that simply aren't going to exist. That is, quite simply, not fair if you're trying to create a statistic. And that's a process that needs to start now, especially if it takes a long time. Given the amount of time this has been up, though, you should already have candidates in mind, no? 15% of votes is relevant in a poll based off of actual statistics.(I believe the term is statistical significance) But is it open to everyone? I never said twelve. Six? Sure. It's all about how much moderation you have to go with the size of it, as well as the funding you have. As an official RP hub I imagine someone is anticipating the bandwidth requirements that are going to be coming with an increased member base after release? It is an issue that has been cited multiple times. It's relevant. Sure but I'm offering a relevant statistic of 15%. That's going to be a lot more than 3 unless nobody wants to vote on your poll. You're exaggerating the numbers a bit with the 3. No, say, here is a community, and let the forum content itself tell people who they prefer and who they don't. You don't need to sell it any other way. No commentary, nothing. Just, wham, forum support, and let members decide. No. This requires you pay attention to the context. A community within a community within this context refers to a guild/group within a community of RPers(server). A series of RP guilds on a single server will conflict in the worst of ways - history has proven that to me. Okay but you just told all of us just coming into the beta that w're irrelevant. So thanks? Not knowing something exists is different from keeping up on it. Not everyone scurries to research RP for a beta they aren't sure if they're getting into. If you're bent over backwards get help. I cannot be sympathetic here - I've been a moderator before. I confidently say now, bending over backwards happens when you don't have the manpower to support yourself. What you give is nice and fine, but you sell yourself as a hub. The issue is that saying "We're balmung centric" is no longer a hub. It's a site for Balmung RPers. But we shouldn't be pointed to the door for offering suggestions. If I say something valid, I want it to be considered, not told I'm free to make my own website. I'm trying to help the community - and you - here. Because I care. If you don't like my points, fine. But prove them wrong if they're wrong, don't dismiss them. Right, but how it turns out is important. Then please don't sell yourself as an RP hub if you're adamant about not being that. If you're a Balmung +1 server, then you need to be that and not pretend to be anything else.

I got a beta key and started playing last weekend. It's not suspicious - I'm just new to the FF14: ARR scene. I keep saying, you need to keep people like me in mind. We're new, but that doesn't make us irrelevant or suspicious. I agree with this 110% but probably not in the way that you would like. I think a lot of these issues could be side-stepped if the RPC simply rebranded itself "Balmung RPC" and let those who were so adamant in setting up RP on other servers sort out the specifics of that for themselves. The original stated purpose of the RPC as I recall was to help unify RPers on one server. I firmly believe that policy should continue to be adhered to, but that's just one RPer's opinion who is tired of all of this [what feels to me to be senseless] bickering. The way I see it, if you are not working towards the RPC's initial goals of unifying RPers in one place, you're working against it. Maybe that makes me look uncompromising or unyielding, but if you so adamantly don't want to RP with me and others on Balmung anyway, why should I care what you think of me? This is how I feel. You're not being unfair at all with that. If the RPC sold itself as a Balmung site instead of a site for all RPing, the entire thing would change. But as long as it sells itself as an RP hub it needs to be an RP hub. Accommodate or change the pitch, I remember saying that earlier.

Mind if we ask, in your opinion, what would be "fair" from your point of view? Please keep in mind that many of the players here have been here for over three years supporting the game and community this entire time. The poll should be open to everyone considering new people are coming in. The poll should be used to gouge interest, not play at unofficial status. With enough interest taken from current active userbase(including new members) and not total member base or simply total votes(if you don't want Balmung people to vote), all relevant statistics(which is, I believe, 15%?(so says my statistics boyfriend)) should be considered as unofficial until they slow down and decay/die. Then consider them defunct. We have almost two months to figure that out before release. Plenty of time to see what thrives and what doesn't. Moderators. If the member base is too much to handle, increase the number of people handling them. Dedicated moderators to dedicated subforums works if there is a lot of traffic(the opposite happens if there isn't enough traffic) Work as a hub. This isn't advertised as a site for Balmung, it sells itself as a site for RP. you must be willing to accommodate all RP, any interest within the relevant statistics(15% of more) has a relevant voice. Which means if six servers all get 15% of the vote, they all deserve a voice. Don't give priority. Legacy servers are clearly not going to appeal to everyone. Advertising with priority to a legacy server is counter productive. You can say the majority are there, sure, but emphasizing is silly. It comes off really badly and stuck up - let the players decide from the communities here on the forum but let those communities exist. People are just as willing to RP with the same 20 people(and even less, some thriving communities ive been a part of have worked off just four people for years, still ongoing) as they are 100 people. You get 20 people, and you're set, but let them know they can find each other. Don't run the risk of thinking communities are idealistic. I'll reference WoW - a lot of the RP turned into guild centered things, where opposing that guild(even if they openly harassed literally everyone else) was meant with disdain and being ignored(because they found themselves superior.) Having enough members to have communities that exist within communities sounds awesome on paper - but it almost never works in practice.(WoW, for one. If anyone is old enough to have been around for the clan/kingdom wars on Eyechat, Teenchat, MSN group or rpghost you know what I mean.)

But the issue is that it's going to happen. It's best to look at the votes coming in, seeing what is happening, and accommodating all of them regardless. Then pick and choose from what goes inactive for what you no longer support. We still have the rest of phase 3 and we have the entirety of phase 4 for trial and error - to make something deciding now is silly. Let the RP community see how it flourishes before release. Accommodate that. I don't agree that it's being fair, I see it as a way of saying "this is the best we're willing to do" instead of "this is the best we can do" and as a universal RP hub for FF14, you need to aim for the best able, not the best willing. If running is an issue, get more committed moderators. The RP community is going to continue to grow so it's inevitable that you're going to need them. Basically, don't try to build RP around your(admin/moderator) convenience, as a hub, it's for the convenience of the players. Sure but advertising that new members cannot vote isn't going to give you an accurate statistic. I, for one, got to vote, so I'm not sure if that's even a thing but it's being advertised as one. You can't say "the poll speaks for itself" if people don't think to vote. Furthermore, with the beta happening just last weekend you have an influx of people that might just now be stumbling across this. There needs to be more accommodation for that. I didn't know saying something seemed rude was a "punch". If you took it as such then I apologize. But as Kylin said, this has been going on for a while so it has become a bit frustrating. Each time I hear it, it just adds to the frustration. So it was probably more of a reply to all the previous similar requests than just your one. As for the "special" part, that was really in general, not to you. I mean that in general when I look for a server I don't think that "I'M" special. I didn't mean to imply that you do. It's at a stage where various opinions will be fluctuating in. Nobody is really rude, and everyone is. Because of how things are going to be perceived, and within the context is doubly important to understand that wordplay is vastly more important than the content of a post. Impact vs. Intent, what you intend to say isn't always the impact your words will have.

It's funny you say that, since I'm actually just about as new as you here. I don't have any friends already established in this community. I barely played 1.0. I'd be just as open to RP with you as anyone else here. If I met your character in game, I'd likely assume that you've been around longer than me. I really would have no idea. Like I said in a previous post, my only motivation is to simple keep the small role-play community (in this forum or not) as least spread out as possible so that we can all have fun together. It's really just that simple. I have no other motives than that. I'd like to have a lot of new players to play with too, since I'm pretty much one as well. Oh sure, I'd RP with anyone my character came across(since real life and in character stuff is best kept separate). But a fracture is going to happen regardless. It's inevitable. Adapt to it. Condemning it is going to split the community between various forums and for a website that is for the RP community and not for one specific server, it's in the purpose of the websites best interest to adapt for the inevitable. I would absolutely love if all of the RP could be in a simple place. But that's idealistic, that's wishing for a scenario like with Runescape where your character isn't bound to a single server. It's simply not going to happen. As someone whose seen more RP communities die, grow old, grow corrupt or grow into something terrible, than I'd like to admit? I'm saying, it's best to adapt. Any other road is going to lead to a bad end. At best the community becomes elitist, at worst the community dies.

Sure. I want to clarify that, as a forum that isn't solely committed to Balmung but to role playing, the site needs to focus on the role playing community. If that means accommodating a fracture, so be it. If the moderators cannot manage supporting multiple event subforums, that's an issue of management and they should get more moderators or be less strict(assuming they are, it's the only reason I can imagine they'd be unable to just let players run player content, which doesn't require managing over responding to reported posts/threads) Just to clarify, the only reason that was mentioned was to emphasize that people will find this site easily and look to see what servers it's largely supporting. Hence why fragmenting people is something we don't want to display. Also, the whole "elitist" accusations have to stop now. Or calling people "condescending." People are growing tired of being called that when all they want to do is RP with as many people as possible. And it speaks volumes that the name calling always seems to start from the same side of the aisle. You can't stop a fracture. You can adapt and survive, or specialize. Condemning, though, is going to breed elitism. Trust me, from experience, that's the last road you should be going down. Okay, but that goes both ways. Calling me rude when I'm not, or telling me I'm not special when I never implied I was are condescending, and there isn't just one side of the argument being picked on here. We're not the only people throwing punches, nor are we throwing them first in every single instance. Don't forget that.

1. Okay, but that community already exists. The post announcing the poll is full of "we guess you guys want a server. and we guess, if we really have to, we'll support you.", "if you win a poll we'll advertise you(after ourselves), but with added emphasis on ourselves(so they might not even hear about you), and if your forum area is ever too quiet we'll get rid of it(but seriously, join us) Even your post right here. You make sure to point out that the RPC is the first on google list. As if to imply that, because you're the top authority, appearing at the top of google, that everyone is going to listen to you. It's a breeding elitism, and it's the general tone which leads me to suggest allowing all three servers. Because I would really, really like to avoid Balmung - and anyone who carries and expresses your sentiments on how (super totally) important you all must be. 2. But these aren't the days of group chats. MSN chats closed down ten years ago, since then there's no instance of a player needing hundreds to thousands of people to role play. You're talking about a generation of RPers that would RP with the same 20 people just as contentedly as they would RP with 100. People have already formed bonds, that has literally already happened. If you wanted to stop it you're pretty late to the party. I'd say adapt to that, give everyone their chance, instead of decreeing that your unofficial word be appeased. I still really don't get this. In all my years of role-playing in MMOs I've never really witnessed such a desire to spread the already small role-play community about. To me this is just new role-players that want to do their own thing because for some reason they think the old players will try to rule over them and tell them what to do. Even though, as others have pointed out, it's likely the new players will outnumber the old role-players anyway. They are certainly free to do what they want, but this community already voted on a server long ago. To come here now and ask for a change is fairly rude. And for what purpose? While I can maybe see reasons for a second, non-legacy server, we do NOT need four. That's absolutely ridiculous and unneeded. A server is a server. While they may be nice and clean when new, in a few months they will all basically be the same, except that the population will have diluted even more and those that went to strike out on a new server with an even smaller group of role-players will likely find that they are very much alone. Not at all, nor is the condescension appreciated, thank you. I came here and made a suggestion, to call that rude? When opinions are publicly being accepted over what to do with a second server? You need to calm down. Role play is not your playground. Nobody is scared that you'll tell them what to do. They're scared that you'll be rude to them because they aren't your super bestest friend. And the issue right now is that you, as an individual, validated that fear people might have about you. Because role players make and have friends that don't role play on top of ones that do. You're telling them to prefer one type over the other since people that are going to want to go far in the game? Wont' want to do it in a community of RPers. Even if you could prove that RPers aren't notoriously bad with PVE/PVP content, you'd still get people citing WoW over how they are. Okay, but neither is a site like this. It's not special, and if the RP moved from where it wanted, it'd be out of luck, hum? Don't ever mistake a third party forum body for an official word. It's not special either, it's only relevance is in convenience. Take advantage of that, and your only user base will be people that google you every once in a while. Nobody wants the same celebrities. They want to settle where they're comfortable, without dying in obscurity. As this is a site to advertise RP, it's only function is to conveniently do that. It's not special, it's not official, it doesn't decree the laws of the lands(or else there would be official RP server( s )). So it's not in the context you're implying at all. What we're doing is asking for a Star Trek convention closer to home, getting told by all the older trekkies with a lot more money that it's too bad that we're poor, that we just want all the same stars they do, and then we have to remind them that they aren't stars - they're cosplayers. We get the same story, we get the same NPCs, all we want is a community to have a chance. Not to be told by people that aren't special that we aren't either. We never thought we were. Doesn't mean we're not allowed to speak. Sure they do. See first part of the post.

I'd agree except that the poll exists on a 'trial basis'. So why not trial all of them and remove them as they become inactive here?

So wait. Why can't all of the servers with RP on them be advertised as unofficial RP servers? Looks like there are at least four servers that people would like to RP on. Forcing people to make a choice to follow RP isn't fair if people have already made some friends and such on their own server.