US Federal Appeals: "No 1st Sale Doctrine for Software"

[Freyar]

So... the US Federal Appeals court decided to overturn a ruling stating that the First Sale Doctrine doesn't apply to licensed software.

 

This scares me, seriously. This has got to be having EA, the RIAA, and MPAA jumping with glee.

 

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/0 ... -doctrine

[Tadir]

Honestly, this is one of the most ridiculous articles I've read in a long time. If a court actually invites the supreme court to review their decision, it's time to reevaluate.

[Brynhilde]

Wow. That is absolutely rediculous. But let me get it straight; you won't be able to sell or buy games second hand anymore?

 

The article also mentions the possibility of book publishers using this law... Now that is terrifying. Limiting access to literature is a crime against humanity.

[Tagyr]

Wow, this is silly. Gamestop (EB games here) is gonna be scared as their biggest profit is preowned software. On top of the other ramifications of giving EA more power in that regard, who I have never had a high opinion of for a long time since the introduction of DRM.

[Freyar]

This is certainly a rattling result. Yes, books can potentially be held by this standard of the current Copyright laws. Seeing as how the US Congress is in bed with the RIAA and MPAA, I certainly doubt they'll be willing to really change anything. Hell, they're dragging their heels with net neutrality.

[Vareal]

I wonder if this will eventually trickle down to hardware. Nevertheless, it won't stop people from selling these things, they'll just find a different venue in which to do so. Who's gunna stop you from selling your copy of of a video game or computer software to your friend for $20?

[Freyar]

I wonder if this will eventually trickle down to hardware.

 

Hardware is a physical good, thus subject to first sale doctrine.

 

Nevertheless, it won't stop people from selling these things, they'll just find a different venue in which to do so. Who's gunna stop you from selling your copy of of a video game or computer software to your friend for $20?

 

DRM. EA's already pushing "Project Ten-Dollar", and THQ[?] upped theirs from $5 to $10 as well.

[Tadir]

This is really going to push a lot more people to software piracy. Just watch.

[Satrina]

Man this is bad news for Gamestop. Which I honestly don't feel sorry for, as they make a huge profit off the work of the game developers. Since developers only see the cash from the first sale and that's it, there's nothing like the movie industry and theater sales --> DVD sales.

 

If they do stop Gamestop from reselling games, I expect the prices to drop on games or i'll be pissed.

[Nbokkri]

...?

 

Anyone who has written software already knew this. It's why companies can ban you from a game you buy or pull a license if you use their software for purposes they don't agree with. You on the other hand have the ability to modify the software all you want as long as it is to get it to work with your system and you don't distribute it (or distribute under the guidelines in the EULA). Really, that article says nothing new.

[Nbokkri]

Actually, while we're on this topic. You don't have a right to free speech in a game. The first amendment protects your freedom of speech from being abridged by the federal government. That's another common misconception.

[Alvaruz]

Man this is bad news for Gamestop. Which I honestly don't feel sorry for, as they make a huge profit off the work of the game developers. Since developers only see the cash from the first sale and that's it, there's nothing like the movie industry and theater sales --> DVD sales.

 

If they do stop Gamestop from reselling games, I expect the prices to drop on games or i'll be pissed.

 

In fact, price will go up...

 

Why? New games had to compete against the resell competition. Now if there's no resell, there's no competition, without competition, companies normally up their prices, because the customers are... Well have no choice...

 

Competition is at the base of the liberalism/capitalism system to protect the customers...

[Freyar]

Anyone who has written software already knew this. It's why companies can ban you from a game you buy or pull a license if you use their software for purposes they don't agree with.

 

However it wasn't really affirmed by the courts till now. EULAs exist, but many have unenforceable parts.

 

In fact, price will go up...

 

Why? New games had to compete against the resell competition. Now if there's no resell, there's no competition, without competition, companies normally up their prices, because the customers are... Well have no choice...

 

Gamestop will manage to strongarm their way into being the sole used-game reseller somehow. They still sell a LOT of new titles too.

[Rikitiki]

This is really going to push a lot more people to software piracy. Just watch.

 

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

[Freyar]

This is really going to push a lot more people to software piracy. Just watch.

 

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

 

You may

.

[Nbokkri]

Anyone who has written software already knew this. It's why companies can ban you from a game you buy or pull a license if you use their software for purposes they don't agree with.

 

However it wasn't really affirmed by the courts till now. EULAs exist, but many have unenforceable parts.

 

 

It's been affirmed in court several times. The only thing that has ever been iffy are what can go in EULAs, but even that has been defined by at least 5-6 cases in the US over the past decade. The ruling hasn't changed anything, it just followed precedent set by previous cases.

[Freyar]

I know the "click-wrap" agreement is being challenged against NCSoft, supposedly being tested against Texas law. It's still a bad thing to see in the long run, especially as this will only embolden the already overzealous RIAA.

[Satrina]

In fact, price will go up...

 

Why? New games had to compete against the resell competition. Now if there's no resell, there's no competition, without competition, companies normally up their prices, because the customers are... Well have no choice...

 

Competition is at the base of the liberalism/capitalism system to protect the customers...

 

 

Capitalism is a great system, especially when you just let companies begin to monopolize areas because they give you kickbacks and fund your campaigns! :cheer:

 

I'm sure Gamestop will strike a profitable deal with developers where they give them a %cut, and in turn developers will up the price of games by 10$ or so...or just continue to make shit games with a whole 5hrs of gameplay, sell it for 63$ and then go "Well it HAS multiplayer!"

[Doktor_Ljubavi]

Man this is bad news for Gamestop. Which I honestly don't feel sorry for, as they make a huge profit off the work of the game developers. Since developers only see the cash from the first sale and that's it, there's nothing like the movie industry and theater sales --> DVD sales.

 

If they do stop Gamestop from reselling games, I expect the prices to drop on games or i'll be pissed.

And... every other product that gets sold goes through the same thing. Every company for every product only see sales from the first sale only. Yet, junk yards/used auto parts are still big, and around. Do you piss and moan about junkyards/used auto part stores? Making profit off the work of car companies?

 

Why put media into a different category? Pure folly, is what this is.

[Freyar]

Why put media into a different category? Pure folly' date=' is what this is.[/quote']

 

Because media, more specifically digital media, doesn't degrade.

[Doktor_Ljubavi]

Why put media into a different category? Pure folly' date=' is what this is.[/quote']

 

Because media, more specifically digital media, doesn't degrade.

and collector items(cards, coins, etc) increase in price based on age, yet I see no one bringing people to court for selling an item they bought 10 years ago.

[Vareal]

This is just all too similar to the idea of a Cloud Operating System which, if they decided to go down this path with software, would be a better option. But then you'd get the nerds, like me, who like to tweak things and set things the way we like it. Either way, I agree that this act, if passed, will promote piracy amongst it's respective communities.

[Freyar]

and collector items(cards' date=' coins, etc) increase in price based on age, yet I see no one bringing people to court for selling an item they bought 10 years ago.[/quote']

 

And that is because the cards, coins, collector's items, and historical artifacts are by the very definition sold. They aren't licensed. The brands are licensed to the manufacturers, but the goods themselves are sold.

 

As is, thinking about it further it seems like Developers and Publishers are trying to have their cake and eat it. Either you sell the product (as the advertising that so many publishers use "Pre-order your copy today, buy now, purchase now", etc), or you license it and say it clearly in the advertising. We're nerds, we know, but the general public is still trying to come to grips which means that there's ambiguity that needs to be cleared up.

 

This is just all too similar to the idea of a Cloud Operating System which, if they decided to go down this path with software, would be a better option. But then you'd get the nerds, like me, who like to tweak things and set things the way we like it. Either way, I agree that this act, if passed, will promote piracy amongst it's respective communities.

 

I've tested the likes of Onlive, and frankly it's nowhere near where it needs to be. Companies that can afford to do it already do some form of virtualization or cloud computing (hell, my Elementary school back in '94 had some form of cloud computing as is) already applied. The big question mark is what it will mean for personal data and games.

 

Steam's implementation is interesting and fairly useful, though at the cost that many people constantly outline and I won't repost here. Onlive takes that a step further and tries to do everything remotely which in the end results in a massively degraded experience.

[Nbokkri]

I know the "click-wrap" agreement is being challenged against NCSoft' date=' supposedly being tested against Texas law. It's still a bad thing to see in the long run, especially as this will only embolden the already overzealous RIAA.[/quote']

 

Two problems with this:

 

1. Click-wrap has already been through court before too. It was decided that it's fine to force people to have to agree to a EULA before use (before installation or after an update being a stipulation as well as the EULA being visible in it's entirety) and that the agreement, even if the person didn't read it, was still valid if they clicked agree and continued.

 

2. The RIAA has nothing to do with software only music... In fact there isn't even a unified software copyright / license enforcement agency. There are a couple copyright enforcement groups that act in stead of a few larger game development firms, but that's about it. Companies like Stardock have no one enforcing their copyrights and have been screwed over a couple times because they release their games without copy protection since they're fundementally against DRM (see Gamer's Bill of Rights).

[Asyria]

Here's to hoping Canada doesn't jump in!