Question about secret identities and other players...

[SamusKnight2K]

As I had wrote before, I'm going with a Miqo'te male that's parading around in disguise as a female. Now I have some concerns about this and the IC reactions of other players...

 

Ideally I'd like to keep characters IC completely in the dark that the Miqo'te they're associating with is actually a man. Plan is to use the long-hair style for my character and either hats, masks, or hoods to try concealing the face a little more. As for the voice Sair already has a light voice (Think sort of like Elk from the .Hack games for PS2 but older and not as high.) but to enhance it I had considered the option of introducing pills that have a helium-like effect that might normally be used for parties or pranks. Created via alchemy, it just slightly makes the voice sound higher pitched. And being primarily a magic user his body isn't as muscular as someone's who spends their time with a sword, mix that in with using robes or thick clothing and it casts the perfect illusion.

 

But of course there is always someone who may think their character can see through that deception. While I wouldn't expect everyone to be completely oblivious (They might have a small suspicion, but not enough to really warrant an investigation.) I am going with the idea people will hopefully keep it to themselves and not go shouting to everyone "This cat's a dude in drag!" and blow the cover. Anyway, I'm asking to get feedback on this, how to others feel about the idea of keeping it hush-hush if they find out IC in some other way than intentionally being told? Also, what do those who plan to RP a male Miqo'te or a character incognito think? It's difficult to determine how to keep it on the down low without some form of meta-gaming involved.

[Nikolai]

Wear perfume. Miqo'te have a keen sense of smell, so you'd probably need to mask any sort of pheromones.

[Tagyr]

Helium pills seems a neat idea. But how about something more magical in origin. Like using wind magic to alter the sound of your voice in that regard seeing as your a magic user.

 

It's an odd and creative character your trying to create but keeping it hushed is something that is judged by each and every character you meet that figures it out/or is told. Everyone is different. Just throwing my idea of how I would go around it is linking back to the wind magic idea. Say if I also had a male Miqote conjurer.

 

My character is sitting in an inn with some friends.

 

Perceptive character with his own friends enters--- starts observing and makes the discovery (somehow), begins to mumble to his friends about me, something that my ears pick up.

 

As he starts to open his mouth to say it louder I conjure a ball of air and stuff it down his throat before he says anything (or in game the person would say it already, but I action my magic as the sound of his words are suddenly muffled to those around him by a invisible bubble of wind magic or some such), he falls into a fit of coughing (depending on how things play out on his end, communication is key, maybe in tells), being the concerned conjurer I am offer to move him away from company to get some more air and in the process tell him to keep his mouth shut...

 

This all depends on the RP players involved of course. Just my idea and it is a rather aggressive style. Again, whether or not such an approach is well received and noted by the characters involved is another thing. Everyone is different and just like RL you can't determine how they are gonna act in regards to the situations they are presented with. Some may accept your reasoning, others may try and blackmail you with it >.>

 

ICly, how many characters out there would be versed in how a male Miqote looks like anyway. I've spoke to some NPCs and they note that they have never seen a male before.

[SamusKnight2K]

Hehe, that whole ball of air down the throat thing sounds fun... Unfortunately it's not really what my character would do. But about the whole keeping it quiet part it's something like this... If he were to flat out say he was a male or do something to raise suspicion (Such as saying something to give it away or slipping up somehow.) then by all means that's a mistake of my own as an RPer and well, live and learn. Overall I don't think it's as big of a deal as it was in FFXI where males were considered rare and something like a precious commodity. I can't recall how many jokes went around that Kazham kept a secret hoard of Mithran males locked up in that cave near the auction house. It would just be something rather unheard of and might possibly make him a little bit of a celebrity at that moment in time.

 

My concern is (And this has happened with others I've RP'd with, few but it's happened.) that someone might just decide that somehow they can suddenly pinpoint that something's different about this person and deduce their real identity as if they had a cheat sheet. In short, they meta-game info that shouldn't be known ICly. In most standard cases you probably wouldn't give it a second thought that the person could be a male unless there were dead giveaway signs such as skin tight clothing that shows certain anatomy off or a deep manly voice. My point is that unless you make an effort to stand out then it really shouldn't be that obvious. But about the wind magic, I was trying to go with something that might seem a little more believable but if you think using magic to alter the pitch of your voice works then I'm all for it. Oh and I owe thanks to SE that I have to RP a character that seems strange in this way, their "No male Miqo'te" rules make it hard to play a race and gender combo you really wanna use. Seeing as a guy pretending to be a girl to live a normal life (If you could call that normal.) is widely accepted this is my only alternative besides rolling a different race.

 

In cases of RP I'll be carrying two sets of clothing one which would be my standard leveling gear and something like a robe or cloak. It should fit in since my character is from the desert city of Ul'dah.

[Trizzip]

If you're not down with the whole wind magic thing, at the very least, I suggest you name the pills something other than 'helium pills'. I don't think helium exists in FFXIV......if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. They could still have the same effect, I'd just go with a different name.

[Magnus]

The major concern I have is how many innocent people this will confuse. IC wise this with shatter my charators view of every Miqo'te he ever hit on, and may even start "checking" others he meets.

OOC this is a great Idea. A character with strong enough will to do what he wants no mater the steps needed to take is awesome.

[Keir]

Unfortunately, in any role-play, you're going to run across players who slip up and meta-game that their character can see through your disguise. I am already preparing for the people who think they know more about the Order of the Stormguard than they should. And by preparing, I simply mean, bracing myself for it to happen -- because it will happen.

 

You can handle it a couple of ways.

 

1. Ignore it.

2. Approach them OOC and correct them.

3. Play it out and keep going.

 

It's really up to you which tactic you take in any given situation.

[SamusKnight2K]

Well they wouldn't be helium pills, just have an effect sort of like if you were to inhale helium. In short they're designed to make your voice sound funny. But the wind thing seems easier so I'll probably go with that. Also, only those who actually read my character's bio will know he's in disguise, and of course whatever RPLS I end up joining. But freelancers or others won't really know, personally I think it kind of detracts from the whole RP experience if you just before RPing go "BTW my char's a dude in drag OK?" to someone because then their characters may not react how they actually would despite not knowing IC. Plus it kind of adds to the surprise if they do find out both IC and OOC. Naturally of course I'm not about to have my Miqo'te randomly flirting with others either, a gir-er, guy's gotta have his standards... Even if he's parading around in a dress...

 

But yea, I suppose it's bound to happen with people meta-gaming... But as long as they can give me a detailed reason OOC they can "just tell" that he's really a guy I can let it pass. It shouldn't take just a first glance to discern this chick's a dude, that Lalafell's gay, and the Hyur over in the corner just soiled himself. Really it's just gonna be some cat wearing baggy clothing and a hood or something. I might even just make it a regular to wear those half-masks I've seen when he's out and about.

[Asyria]

My Miqo'te will have a secret identity but not a gender-bending one.

The way I'll go about it is very simple ICly... I'll have her wear a mask, change her voice, and change her smell (yay perfume).

How I'll do it OOC is even more simple... I'll rely on people not metagaming. If they do anyway I'll pretty much do as Keir suggested, though I'm not likely to ignore it.

I'll either say OOC "You're not supposed to know that, she's in disguise!"

Or I'll have the character deny it IC.

Probably both.

[Renaise]

An alt of mine, Ghost Arrow, will have a secret identity... he will wear a mask to keep his real identity secret from everyone though, he's only likely to be interacting as Ghost Arrow with other people though, chances are he wont slip out of that.

 

Kinda like Spiderman in the avengers, he still retains his secret identity so everyone in the group just knows him as Spiderman

[Verence]

I won't say I'm down on the idea, so please don't take this post that way. There is the potential for interest, hilarity, and some serious character development here. I would, however, be very careful with how you approach and handle this. Anything that requires THIS level of OOC tap-dancing and even proposed godmoding to keep under wraps sort of seems like a headache waiting to happen. As the character continues to interact, it'd get harder and harder to keep the secret, as well.

 

I won't say don't do it; we KNOW male Miqo'te exist, and nothing says they can or can't be adventurers - though for whatever reason, most don't seem to be. But, what will happen if someone, through the course of appropriate roleplay, legitimately discovers his secret? The longer it stays secret, the harder it will become to KEEP secret... And what happens when it gets discovered? Will he continue to crossdress simply for societal acceptance? Will he retire in shame? Come out as a male? If he does, will you just tell each new person you RP with "Ignore the boobs"? Just a few things you may want to consider before you make something requiring so much OOC orchestration a central, defining part of your character.

 

If you can plan ahead and come up with appropriate ways to handle and explain all this, great! Congratulations on your character. If you're having trouble though, you may want to consider concept tweaks.

[Asyria]

An alt of mine, Ghost Arrow, will have a secret identity... he will wear a mask to keep his real identity secret from everyone though, he's only likely to be interacting as Ghost Arrow with other people though, chances are he wont slip out of that.

 

Kinda like Spiderman in the avengers, he still retains his secret identity so everyone in the group just knows him as Spiderman

 

Wanna be my sidekick?

[ArmachiA]

Unfortunately' date=' in any role-play, you're going to run across players who slip up and meta-game that their character can see through your disguise. I am already preparing for the people who think they know more about the Order of the Stormguard than they should. And by preparing, I simply mean, bracing myself for it to happen -- because it [i']will[/i] happen.

 

You can handle it a couple of ways.

 

1. Ignore it.

2. Approach them OOC and correct them.

3. Play it out and keep going.

 

It's really up to you which tactic you take in any given situation.

 

 

Hahaha truth. I'm already preparing for the inevitable "YOU'RE IN THE CRIMSON BLADES I KNOW IT." RP session.

[Trizzip]

Unfortunately' date=' in any role-play, you're going to run across players who slip up and meta-game that their character can see through your disguise. I am already preparing for the people who think they know more about the Order of the Stormguard than they should. And by preparing, I simply mean, bracing myself for it to happen -- because it [i']will[/i] happen.

 

You can handle it a couple of ways.

 

1. Ignore it.

2. Approach them OOC and correct them.

3. Play it out and keep going.

 

It's really up to you which tactic you take in any given situation.

 

 

Hahaha truth. I'm already preparing for the inevitable "YOU'RE IN THE CRIMSON BLADES I KNOW IT." RP session.

 

And after that, I'll bash his or her head with the RETCON hammer.

[Shamadconde]

Unfortunately' date=' in any role-play, you're going to run across players who slip up and meta-game that their character can see through your disguise. I am already preparing for the people who think they know more about the Order of the Stormguard than they should. And by preparing, I simply mean, bracing myself for it to happen -- because it [i']will[/i] happen.

 

You can handle it a couple of ways.

 

1. Ignore it.

2. Approach them OOC and correct them.

3. Play it out and keep going.

 

It's really up to you which tactic you take in any given situation.

 

 

Hahaha truth. I'm already preparing for the inevitable "YOU'RE IN THE CRIMSON BLADES I KNOW IT." RP session.

 

And after that, I'll bash his or her head with the RETCON hammer.

 

I'll get them to bend down. "I'll tell you a secret" or something like that and knife in the eye.

[Satisiun]

So. Like. While everyone is busy yukking it up over meta-gamers, I'm glad to see I am not the only one with concerns about this, much like Verence both rationally and extensively points out.

 

At what point, for example, is it no longer meta-gaming when a character realizes something is just a little off about that Miqo'te they are interacting with? Or that the character behind the mask has some sort of familiar tic, or personality quirk, or even a familiar facial feature or bodily feature not able to be concealed so easily?

 

And at what point do you look in the mirror and realize, "My god. I'm godmoding/meta-gaming myself!" by making it nigh-impossible for someone to get suspicious, curious, or wondering after a period of time of interaction between characters? Yes, if someone whom you have never played with before sees your character history and description and sees you're playing what is effectively a "Sweet Miqo'te Transvestite from Transexual Miqo'te Transylvania" comes up to you and within the first hour goes, "Something seems ... off, about you," then you have every right to call foul. Without a doubt!

 

In essence, the only way you'll ever be able to avoid this sort of problem is by playing in a very closed environment, with very specific people, who will always adhere to what you want in interaction without question. A bit exaggerated, yes, but you will never be able to free-form roleplay, or interact with characters on the fly without having to always worry.

 

That's just me, though. :?

[Asyria]

I think that it's all a matter of what is ICly done to hide the identity and how it could fail, which ultimately depends mostly on the player of the secret identity-esque character. Of coure there could be some metagaming involved in "you can,t find out cause I say so" but it should be defined ahead of time what is done to ensure that people won't find out.

 

This way, others can figure out if they would notice anything or not. Mind you, it -does- take a lot before a character becomes suspicious unless the disguise is poor.

 

There's also the thematic f the secret identity concept and for RP's sake, room can be made for that. I mean, we all know that Clark Kent is Superman, no matter how thick his glasses are. Same goes with an Eorzean with a mask. Spiderman is another story. You can't see an inch of his skin.

 

My character falls somewhere in between... there aren't that many blue haired Miqo'te around, but she relies on her acting skills (she loves watching plays and learned from those) as well as, like I mentioned above, perfumes and masks and things.

In the end it's a matter of respect, I guess.

 

On one side, respect for the player who wishes to toy around with the secret identity theme and, on the other, respect for the player who, without calling on crazy things like mind-reading and failproof sense of observation shenanigans, manages to find a realistic way to pierce the character's disguise.

 

To take myself as an example again, I figured that Balthazar's Favor NPC's, with enough spying (due to her meddling in their bizness) ,managed to find out who she was because they observed her long enough and managed to catch her going home. That's part of her storyline and how she joined the LS.

 

In RP however, I would expect people who think their character would know to ask me and we would then determine what to do. Mind you, anyone pulling any failproof shenanigans ("I read your mind so I know automatically") would likely be ignored. Someone who proposes clever ways about how their character would find out however (pointing out that "there was only Blue Moon and me, so how do you know this if you're not her, Azy?" for example), that I can deal with and enjoy.

[ArmachiA]

I would consider it Godmodding and metagaming for the person with the hidden identity to never make it possible to find out their secret. A Male Miqote is going to screw up at some point, be it how they walk, or never dating, Reacting to something in a more manly way, just as someone in a secret society will always have something that identifies them as such (A ring for CB, a tattoo for Stormguard) and situations are going to rise up where your life is more important than your secret identity.. even if someone happens to be around.

 

It's a fine line really. A people watcher would be more likely to point out the weirdness of other characters, while a more selfish character wouldn't. If the selfish character suddenly knows your secret, it's okay to question it. A guy sitting in the back room who's been watching you all night, well he may actually know something

[Mho]

I guess I'm just confused about why a male Miqo'te would NEED to cross dress. Is there anything shameful about being a Miqo'te man? The only real reason I can see for it is a sort of OOC wrenching things around to explain why your character's avatar looks feminine - but yanking things around purely OOCly to force things on the game/setting that couldn't otherwise happen seems... almost like godmodding right there, by itself. Either way there are problems... One way you'd have to constantly explain "No really, I'm a guy" and the other you have to constantly worry "What if they find out I'm a guy?!" It just seems like so much extra work and effort with so much potential to be misunderstood and messed up... I guess I'm just wondering if it's really worth it? Does it add something completely irreplaceable to the character you can't get any other, less messy way?

[SamusKnight2K]

Oh believe me, I'd love to ignore the whole "guy dressed as a girl" thing, but we can owe it thanks to SE for that little bit. But some linkshells (I think T.A.L.E. for example.) require that if you're going to RP a male Miqo'te it has to be done via male pretending to be female due to the chest, appearance, etc. And after giving it some thought I'm just going to keep it simple: Keep the hair long, wear baggy clothing and a hood/hat. If someone finds out, whatever. Simple explanation is he only wears a padded chest so he can go about his business in peace. Sair would tend to keep to himself in public and all that anyway and at first glance someone probably won't really know. I kind of doubt smell is actually going to come up, and there's always deodorizing for that providing the spell still exists in this game too.

 

I've been overthinking it too much lately, so from this point I don't care anymore. If someone insists they can tell just by looking at him I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and deal with it then.

[Asyria]

The important question however is... what if they give us male Miqo'te in the future along with an IC explanation of why they suddenly go out adventuring too)?

[Trizzip]

The important question however is... what if they give us male Miqo'te in the future along with an IC explanation of why they suddenly go out adventuring too)?

 

lol, this is what I've been thinking the whole time. I guess in that case, a huge RETCON would be in order.

[Satisiun]

The important question however is... what if they give us male Miqo'te in the future along with an IC explanation of why they suddenly go out adventuring too)?

 

lol, this is what I've been thinking the whole time. I guess in that case, a huge RETCON would be in order.

 

That or enjoy your level 1 do-over. :lol: Either one isn't exactly going to be the best of situations, especially if SE actually does integrate them at some point. And they have claimed they want to do so, but it being SE, one can never know.

[Siben]

Hey Samus, in case you haven't heard I got linked this by a friend of mine:

http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/73123163

 

Of note is this image:

http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1284507643386.png

 

Gratz on makin' it to /v/. You're internet famous now.

[ArmachiA]

hahahaha. Fucking Besaids, indeed.