Leveling.

[Akashi]

How are you lads doing it? :? (I am referring to skill level not physical level by the by) Guildleves are nice, but extremely limited as well as on a long cooldown. Killing individual enemies reeks of inconsistency and random skill ups. How is it meant to be done? I understand FFXIV is not supposed to be about racing to max level, but I feel more than a little ridiculous being rank 10 for 5 days. It does not bode well for the future, or altitis for that matter. The road of progression feels needlessly long, empty, and callous. Like EVE without space.

 

I ramble though. Perhaps my conceptions are premature? Any ideas to get the ball rolling as it were?

[Freyar]

First and foremost, find enemies that are at least green. If you're losing to green, double-check your equipment and abilities. There's either sub-par equipment putting you in jeopardy or your ability rotation isn't optimal.

 

EX: THM, spamming Scourge and Banish got me killed. Using them occasionally with a heavy reliance on Sacrifice and Phantom Dart results in me winning against orange /cons.

[Akashi]

First and foremost, find enemies that are at least green. If you're losing to green, double-check your equipment and abilities. There's either sub-par equipment putting you in jeopardy or your ability rotation isn't optimal.

 

EX: THM, spamming Scourge and Banish got me killed. Using them occasionally with a heavy reliance on Sacrifice and Phantom Dart results in me winning against orange /cons.

 

Hmm.. very interesting about the rotation. I shall remember that when I try to level THM some more I have been trying to upgrade my equipment but have had problems finding a new weapon. Everything else is moderate. I don't die very often, usually hold my own against yellows and oranges (unless I have a lot of misses/evades). My problem is that I have a hard time finding them, and that they don't give much skill ups when I do. Spent a couple hours hunting stuff tonight around Drybone and have not a rank increase to show for it.

[Freyar]

It seems certain directions from the cities have different strength'd enemies. For instance, East of Gridania is pretty much a deathtrap, while south is easy enough, and North-West is medium (for me that is).

[Loonymonkey]

This has been bothering me as well, as a 10 MDR i find either blue enimeis or reds.. im not sure WTH im doing wrong but ive been looking all over grid and uldas

[Satrina]

If you're rank 10 and in Grid, head to Emerald Moss and go a bit north of there to the large circle patches you see on your map. Most are covered in marmots and a few bees, roselings. You can level up on those for a while then move onto the monkeys nearby at 13-14. Or you can do puk hatchlings around 12 around Limsa and dodos around Limsa will con green to yellow at 14-15.

[Merri]

Wall of text incoming.

 

There's been quite a few people with concerns about how sketchy the skill-up system is, so don't get the feeling that it might just be you having issues.

 

Personally, I feel the skill point system to just be an all around bad idea. I even sent in a feedback to SE (And believe all those who feel the same about the skill point system should do the same.). Basically, you get skill points through various sources. Using an offensive ability that does damage to an enemy, parrying an attack, blocking with your shield (For sentinel skill points), and healing party members while engaged in combat in a party. Basically, every swing has a chance (Presumably based off RNG) to grant you skill points. The higher percentage of damage to the enemies HP, the more skill points are awarded. The downside to this is that using higher hitting attacks kills enemies faster, and if you aren't granted skill points off the larger attacks you gain less overall.

 

So, you can either kill mobs quickly and have a chance at large amounts of skill points, or kill them slowly with "Auto" attacks (I.E Light slash, stab, etc) and have a greater chance at earning skill points overall, albeit at a smaller amount.

 

However, it's highly possible (And happens often to me) to receive barely any skill points from enemies no matter what you do. I can fight a green or yellow marked enemy at level 20 and walk away with 30-100 skill points (Which is what I usually get), and it takes me about 1-3 minutes to kill them. Sometimes I walk away with 300+ on a yellow enemy, but that's a rare occasion. Overall, I usually get about 2000-3000 skill points an hour with diligent grinding, which is just silly considering I need 20,000+ these days to gain one level. It shouldn't be taking me seven hours for one level at twenty, you know? I can't even imagine what higher levels would be like at that rate. Forty eight hours of gameplay to go from 43-44? No thanks. It also doesn't help that most enemies are very scarce, and there's usually at least one other person around leveling in your area, no matter how far out you get. Most of the camps have been staked out by this point in the game within the 1-25 level range.

 

Partying is also sketchy with this system. Let's take Gladiator for example, since I am one and have had first hand experience. A Gladiator has to keep his shield arm up at all times while tanking. We just do, it negates a ton of damage. However, holding it up takes a solid 5-10% of the stamina bar or so. Not to mention the process takes a second or two to register. Now, we also need to more or less spam provoke at this point in time to be able to effectively hold aggro over the other classes. Provoke takes about 25% of the stamina bar. Mixing these two stamina-draining actions together leaves the Gladiator without much time to get in melee swings by the time the enemy is dead, and we gain barely any skill points compared to our party members. Healers are in the same boat, as they don't receive much from healing.

 

All of that aside, it's important to take into consideration the fact that the game is still learning to walk, and hopefully the majority of this will change regardless of whether or not SE receives feedback. I honestly believe they just need to do away with skill points on attacks and heals, and allow us to receive a set amount of skill points upon kill, just like we should. I hated FFXI's skill up system for weapons, and all they did was turn that into the way to level your class itself. Just not a great idea in my books.

[DAISHI]

Wall of text incoming.

 

There's been quite a few people with concerns about how sketchy the skill-up system is, so don't get the feeling that it might just be you having issues.

 

Personally, I feel the skill point system to just be an all around bad idea. I even sent in a feedback to SE (And believe all those who feel the same about the skill point system should do the same.). Basically, you get skill points through various sources. Using an offensive ability that does damage to an enemy, parrying an attack, blocking with your shield (For sentinel skill points), and healing party members while engaged in combat in a party. Basically, every swing has a chance (Presumably based off RNG) to grant you skill points. The higher percentage of damage to the enemies HP, the more skill points are awarded. The downside to this is that using higher hitting attacks kills enemies faster, and if you aren't granted skill points off the larger attacks you gain less overall.

 

So, you can either kill mobs quickly and have a chance at large amounts of skill points, or kill them slowly with "Auto" attacks (I.E Light slash, stab, etc) and have a greater chance at earning skill points overall, albeit at a smaller amount.

 

However, it's highly possible (And happens often to me) to receive barely any skill points from enemies no matter what you do. I can fight a green or yellow marked enemy at level 20 and walk away with 30-100 skill points (Which is what I usually get), and it takes me about 1-3 minutes to kill them. Sometimes I walk away with 300+ on a yellow enemy, but that's a rare occasion. Overall, I usually get about 2000-3000 skill points an hour with diligent grinding, which is just silly considering I need 20,000+ these days to gain one level. It shouldn't be taking me seven hours for one level at twenty, you know? I can't even imagine what higher levels would be like at that rate. Forty eight hours of gameplay to go from 43-44? No thanks. It also doesn't help that most enemies are very scarce, and there's usually at least one other person around leveling in your area, no matter how far out you get. Most of the camps have been staked out by this point in the game within the 1-25 level range.

 

Partying is also sketchy with this system. Let's take Gladiator for example, since I am one and have had first hand experience. A Gladiator has to keep his shield arm up at all times while tanking. We just do, it negates a ton of damage. However, holding it up takes a solid 5-10% of the stamina bar or so. Not to mention the process takes a second or two to register. Now, we also need to more or less spam provoke at this point in time to be able to effectively hold aggro over the other classes. Provoke takes about 25% of the stamina bar. Mixing these two stamina-draining actions together leaves the Gladiator without much time to get in melee swings by the time the enemy is dead, and we gain barely any skill points compared to our party members. Healers are in the same boat, as they don't receive much from healing.

 

All of that aside, it's important to take into consideration the fact that the game is still learning to walk, and hopefully the majority of this will change regardless of whether or not SE receives feedback. I honestly believe they just need to do away with skill points on attacks and heals, and allow us to receive a set amount of skill points upon kill, just like we should. I hated FFXI's skill up system for weapons, and all they did was turn that into the way to level your class itself. Just not a great idea in my books.

 

 

DO A BARREL ROLL!

[Akashi]

Very well said Rain, and I agree on all parts. I shall submit some feedback similar to your own. This is a serious deterrent from continuing with FFXIV.

[Therese]

Rain, could it also be some of the difficulty you are experiencing with your level 20 character (not necessarily your gladiator since that sounds particularly draining), is that you've hit your experience cap for the week? I'm pretty sure I heard that SE implemented a limit to the amount of exp/levels you can get in a set amount of time... so maybe it's not so much that you're having difficulty leveling but rather you've hit the cap and are trying to go up a harder current than the lower levels?

[Asyria]

They're not going to take away the skill points system.

You don't just build a system from scratch and start it all over because players are unhappy. What you do is try to fix it and hope people are happy. But they won't start over with a brand new system. That has never been done and will never be done either.

It's flawed, but a lot of people like this a lot more than just picking one class and leveling it, with all the stats following along, and having no real options for change. It's a great compromise between pure class-based and pure skill-based,, it just needs tweaking. Like everything does in every game, all the time.

 

And yes, don't forget the cap.

If you're already Rank 20 in your class, but you must have hit at least some degree of skill pt penalty a few times.

[Merri]

Of course they won't do away with something entirely. It's square enix we're talking about, after all. They'd never let something get this far and scrap it. A man can, however, have hopes and dreams.

 

No, it's not the surplus that's been bothering me. I've hit it only once, but it resets once a week. When you hit it, your EXP total under the menu screen turns yellow, and your EXP doesn't take a significant hit until you really, really grind into the surplus.

 

So no, I haven't been under the effects of Surplus. It starts when you reach something like 90,000 SP, and I have gained maybe 40,000 since the last reset. It's just terrible SP in general that me, and other players have been facing.

 

But, as I said, it was just my personal opinion. Never stated I thought they would change it, just what I personally would hope for.

 

All of that aside, it's important to take into consideration the fact that the game is still learning to walk, and hopefully the majority of this will change regardless of whether or not SE receives feedback. I honestly believe they just need to do away with skill points on attacks and heals, and allow us to receive a set amount of skill points upon kill, just like we should. I hated FFXI's skill up system for weapons, and all they did was turn that into the way to level your class itself. Just not a great idea in my books.

 

I'm certain they will tweak it so that skill points are more easily obtained, and not based so much upon RNG but other factors.

[Volkai]

I'm taking FFXIV far more casually than I did - and do - FFXI. So I'm doing Guildleves to level up.

 

That's it. Just Guildleves. No going out of my way to grind monsters, no grinding monsters unless they happen to be handy right before I start / after I finish a leve and I feel like it.

 

Is it slower overall? Probably. Is it a very efficient use of my time? Definitely.

[DAISHI]

I'm taking FFXIV far more casually than I did - and do - FFXI. So I'm doing Guildleves to level up.

 

That's it. Just Guildleves. No going out of my way to grind monsters, no grinding monsters unless they happen to be handy right before I start / after I finish a leve and I feel like it.

 

Is it slower overall? Probably. Is it a very efficient use of my time? Definitely.

 

To be honest crafting has incidentally kept my physical level on pace with everyone else I know, really.

[Volkai]

I'm taking FFXIV far more casually than I did - and do - FFXI. So I'm doing Guildleves to level up.

 

That's it. Just Guildleves. No going out of my way to grind monsters, no grinding monsters unless they happen to be handy right before I start / after I finish a leve and I feel like it.

 

Is it slower overall? Probably. Is it a very efficient use of my time? Definitely.

 

To be honest crafting has incidentally kept my physical level on pace with everyone else I know, really.

Oh! Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to pick up Hand and Land Disciplines. I'll have to do that next time I log in.

[DAISHI]

They're not going to take away the skill points system.

You don't just build a system from scratch and start it all over because players are unhappy. What you do is try to fix it and hope people are happy. But they won't start over with a brand new system. That has never been done and will never be done either.

It's flawed, but a lot of people like this a lot more than just picking one class and leveling it, with all the stats following along, and having no real options for change. It's a great compromise between pure class-based and pure skill-based,, it just needs tweaking. Like everything does in every game, all the time.

 

And yes, don't forget the cap.

If you're already Rank 20 in your class, but you must have hit at least some degree of skill pt penalty a few times.

 

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

 

Star Wars Galaxies.

[Freyar]

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

 

Star Wars Galaxies.

 

I miss you, Galaxies. *sniff*

[Kejira]

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

 

Star Wars Galaxies.

 

 

*shivers* uhhhh yes that didn't turn out good at all

[NKato]

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

 

Star Wars Galaxies.

 

 

*shivers* uhhhh yes that didn't turn out good at all

 

Not at all, not at all.

 

That said, I think Square is more than likely to just increase the incidence of Skill Points if they ACTUALLY listen. Funny thing? The JP players think Square's listening more to the Western audience, and we, the Westerners, think Square is listening to JP players when it comes to their games.

 

Reality: Square doesn't give a fuck what we or their home audience thinks. They just do things and throw it at us.

[TeeBeeDee]

Well, they do need to do something. And its funny that you mentioned Gladiator since I'm leveling up that and THM. Seriously, if you thought Gladiator was bad for skill ups.....dont touch THM. First off, half your dmg spells are DOT spells, and the DOT aspect doesnt even give the chance for skill ups. Which leaves you with spamming your basic attack and trying to keep your health from dropping too low. I just dont understand why game designers think Random = Good.

 

I know they will tweak the system, but I dont think tweaking is going to help. Random is Random. I'm fine with Variance, or taking your actions into account (play more skillfully, get more skill points?)...but when the best way to rank up is to play badly (spam the same default attack over and over again) something is horribly out of whack.

 

On the plus side though, I really like the way the ability and cross class abilities work, I also really like the Stamina system and the lack of autoattack.

[Freyar]

but when the best way to rank up is to play badly (spam the same default attack over and over again) something is horribly out of whack.

 

To be fair, (as a THM), I prefer to be heavily reliant on the Dart since the spells are really there to augment combat and not replace it. As a conjurer you could probably get away with spamming spells, but that's not how THM are supposed to be played to begin with. Managing time and using the appropriate skills at the right times makes playing THM enjoyable.

[Volkai]

I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

[Akashi]

I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

 

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

 

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

[Asyria]

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

 

Star Wars Galaxies.

 

I miss you, Galaxies. *sniff*

 

I haven't played that Galaxies.. or any Star Wars game, really! ^^;

But yeah, that would be the first I hear who done that, then.

[Xzenivar]

I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

 

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

 

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

 

In Aion, it was a breeze until you hit mid level, then you tripped over a pretty hard fence, halfway through the mid levels, you were introduced to a brick wall. High levels? Well, brick wall, covered in grease, with you handed rubber gloves, then told to climb it.