JFrombaugh

For RPing, do you like for your characters to fit in with the stereotypes of different classes, races, etc.? Or do you like to completely mix it up by having them be the complete opposite of what one would expect for a given Job, race, etc.? My character Miranda is a Summoner, formerly Arcanist. And personally, I would say she does not really fit the stereotype of that class. While she is quite intelligent and has an intellectual streak, compared to Arcanists like Foreseer K'lyhia, Miranda is actually much more emotionally tuned than logically tuned, very introspective, and so forth, even if she doesn't really show it much outwardly - which would suggest she would find Thaumaturgy and Conjury much easier to learn overall. So why'd she choose to learn Arcanima? Well personally, I have always felt that there are more than a few reasons to believe that the Padjali are not nearly as benevolent as they may seem. A long time ago I remember Sounssy wrote an incredibly detailed post explaining Thaumaturges' connections with Ul'dah & Nald'thal (taken from 1.0's lore) in an attempt to debunk the myths that THM was less nation-locked than CNJ owing to being fueled by introspection. When you're an Adventurer who is used to being dismissed as a pathetic lowlife who has likely failed at getting a higher-paying job and therefore is looking for Adventuring as a way of making money (as Ul'dahn elites do), or having it made very clear that you are not trusted and are one slip-up away from the stake (as the Wildwood Elezen of Gridania do), a little respect goes a long way - the side job at Malvaan's Gate, in Miranda's eyes, was vastly superior to wandering around doing menial tasks and being looked down upon by the very same people she was trying to help - and Master Thubyrgeim proved to be a very affable teacher who was willing to work closely with Miranda and make sure that she understood the complex science and math behind this newly discovered magic art. And later on, after Miranda had joined the Scions, learned that these strange visions of a Crystal and flashbacks was in fact a holy ability, faced Ifrit, and become skilled enough in Arcanima to even consider picking up the Summoner Soul Crystal, she was eager to jump at the opportunity because not only was it a continuation of what the Allagan Summoners had done (using the power of the Primals against them), but a big part of her felt that summoning mini-Primals through channeling their unique elementally-aspected aether was a great way to stick it to the religious Ul'dahn and Gridanian elites. In short, Miranda felt the Arcanist's Guild cared about her (and the rest of its students), while the other two magic Guilds, for the most part, did not.

One of the things that is so amazing about the DRK storyline IMO is that Fray (the embodiment of the Warrior of Light's frustration) says literally almost everything that my own Miranda character usually found herself thinking in those kinds of situations (but rarely dared say out loud). In fact, I would say the only key difference would be: DRK storyline Fray - "Why does EVERYBODY in Eorzea feel the need to beg the Warrior of Light for help with some random menial task?!" Miranda Fray - "Eorzeans in general are arrogant, selfish, ungrateful pricks...why should I bother helping YOU when you're just a member of the scummy nation I hate the most?" But what about the rest of your characters? Would "Fray" have probably turned out pretty much the same way had your own character grabbed that Soul Crystal and become a DRK themselves? Or would he/she have been the manifestation of some other dark side of your character? Alternatively, if you RP a DRK yourself, what were the similarities (if any)?

Wow, I always thought that Thaumaturgy was the only discipline that actually used one's own internal aether to fuel spells (hence why Thaumauturges have to learn how to shift between Astral & Umbral states of mind to recharge), and Arcanima just used geometrical patterns to shape latent aether around the caster into spells. Though I guess when you look at the Aetherflow abilities and how you gain back MP by using it, it kind of makes sense.

After a lot of deliberation, going back and forth, and having no luck in finally deciding on my character's class, I'm wondering if I may have finally found the lucky break I'm looking for... As I've already stated, Miranda will be a Disciple of Magic of some sorts. However, I finding that no matter which one I choose, I run into some kind of dillemma: -Conjurer and Thaumaturge are confirmed to both be very cohesive within their city-states, so commitment and loyalty would probably be an issue with either one - like I've said before Miranda would not be very willing to "cozy up" to a city of hypocritical jerks. -Arcanist is the class that nearly everybody else suggested, but that class's MO kind of goes against someone who is more emotionally tuned than logically tuned. In other words, while she would probably get along just fine with the other guild members, it's her ability to actually learn the art and apply it in the field that I would question - unless she was lucky enough to find a soul of the Summoner or something I really don't think Miranda would have the patience or natural desire to learn arcanima when she can just use her willpower and a staff to channel the elements. At first, when the Astrologian was revealed, I thought that it would be yet another dead end, because everyone initially assumed that it would be "nation-locked" to Ishgard based on the astrologer NPCs already in-game in Coerthas. However, a recent interview confirmed that it's actually a Sharlayan class in origin: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/213013-What-s-in-a-Name-%28Astrologian-Ver.%29?p=2694997 If SE plays their cards right (pun very much intended ), I think this class could be a very interesting fit! -Y'shtola is originally from Sharalya, and she is probably the NPC who is the most similar to Miranda personality-wise. -Astrologian uses star readings rather than formulaic maths to devise strategies so it would fit better with her personality than Scholar. -It fits the introverted bent of my character, as it's confirmed in-game that Astrologians spend a lot of time alone studying -It doesn't have a base class but yet it uses its own weapon so it will probably be suitable enough for RPing, unlike most of the other Job classes -The concept artwork of the six cards depicts all of the Twelve in some form so it would probably fit in very well with a character who considers herself more allied with the Scions than the Grand Companies. Obviously we won't know for certain all the lore behind the Job until Heavensward is released, but needless to say I've got my hopes pretty high. If it turns out for whatever reason that astrologian would go against my characters' nature, then I guess I will likely settle for her being a "Sage" (skilled in both conjury and thaumaturgy, sees both sides of the coin).

I agree with everyone else. Virtually every bit of lore that isn't purely informational is there to show just how terrible life in Eorzea is. In ARR, thousands were enslaved by the Garlean Empire under less than humanitarian conditions and until the PC came along there was nothing anyone could do about it. In Ul'dah I would imagine that for the most part only heavily armed cheaters prosper, and if you get fired from your job or quit you will starve to death because no way are you getting another job and the government is not too keen on the idea of welfare. The Sultansworn and Syndicate constantly at each others throats threatening a brutal civil war haven't helped matters either. Limsa Lominsa has a standard of living comparable to Bangladesh, the constant threat of the Shagain & Kobold beastmen, and a young government rife with corruption and internal politics. At times it's difficult to say whether being a "Bad Boss" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadBoss) is the exception or the rule in Gridania. Kan-E-Senna is shown to disagree strongly with this trope, but the PC almost always has to deal with various townsfolk and Wood Wailers that do fit the trope. Things ain't looking too peachy in Ishgard anymore either since the start of the War against the Dragons, a brief threat of civil war and dictatorship on the horizon of possibilities. And this isn't even counting the threat of the Primals and the Ascians.

I'm REALLY hoping that Dark Knight will be similar to Ninja in that it will be more on its own side than Ishgard's. Lorewise both seem to be right on track for my second character (Keeper of the Moon or Duskwight, based on Amarant from FF9) Historically the Job has always had a strong independent streak which has set it apart from it's counterpart the Paladin. Astrologian seems to be just a glorified Scholar without a fairy, was really hoping for more. Gameplay wise, I will of course hold judgement until I see the abilities, but RPing wise it wouldn't fit my characters because they wouldn't be willing to cozy up to a city-state of fascists.

Okay, enough about Miranda for now. I've come up with an idea for a character that shares a lot of similarities with her, yet is different in certain ways. He will be either a Duskwight or Keeper of the Moon who has become an outcast from Gridania due to both his species and the fact he is an Adventurer, and found the Rogue's guild an ideal "haven" due to his skill with weapons and the fact that he tends heavily towards preferring a looser structural organization in general. My Miranda character eventually will end up meeting him and although their initial relations may be rocky (see below), she would immediately sympathize with him due to her having much the same experience and sharing his bitterness towards the city-state governments in general. I haven't played through the storyline yet, but I imagine many of you on here have. I've heard reports from those who have played the storyline that the Rogues guild is frequently at odds with the Yellowjackets, which raises one very important question that I need to take into account: Are the Rogues enemies with the Arcanists as well? It seems like they would be...If so, Miranda would probably have to be a Conjurer, unless I can come up with a very good background story on why these two became close friends. Of course this does open up a good avenue for an ironic twist of fate, because if Miranda DID choose to switch classes and become an Arcanist, it would have been because she felt that Gridanians in general had failed to live up to their reputation as a peace-loving people and that they lacked the respect for outsiders that the Arcanists showed her - thus, she no longer would have any desire to be bound to serve Gridania as Conjurers (more or less) are. The customs job would have provided Miranda with an alternative to adventuring because Adventurers in general are not well-liked in Eorzea, which as I've already established, is one of the core reasons these two get along well ultimately.

One of my personality traits is that I tend to spend a lot of time deliberating, yet reach decisions only with difficulty. Miranda's story is heavily based on Squall Leonhart from FF8. She fights because she wishes to make the world a better place, not because she believes the people of Eorzea genuinely deserve it. In fact, she sees the city states as little better than the Garlean Empire. While she responds well to thoughtfulness and amiability, she has a strong stubborness and resentment that surfaces when she is treated unkindly (which as I've pointed out, is most of the time up until the final 5% of the Main Scenario). She is also fairly independent-minded in general, refusing to be inappropriately dominated, and mainly decided to join the Guild because the harsh reality of being an Adventurer is that just about every person you come into contact with is a mean S.O.B. She tends much more heavily towards empathizing with peacemakers rather than warmongers and is not well suited to military duty for these reasons (with the exception of the Scions). The way I see it: Conjury - Would best fit my character's ideals, and Kan-E-Senna happens to share a lot of my character's key traits - namely the dislike of war and "disagrees with the harsh treatment of outsiders" parts. The irony of course is that the Guild is located in (and swears fealty to) the city that has the highest number of bigots. Miranda would be especially appalled that someone like Raya-O-Senna's brother would be allowed to be a White Mage. Arcanima - While Miranda would probably get along with the guild members for the most part, it's her ability to cast the spells and perform the duties of the order that I would question. Arcanists seem to be more "sciency" rather than "philosophical" with their magic, and like I said my character tends to trust her heart more than her head. Thaumaturgy - Seemed like the "best of both worlds" fit (filling similar role to WHMs, but with the Void & minus the rigid codes of morality)...until I learned about their 1.0 storyline. Ul'dah would probably be the least ideal city for my character to live in since it seems to embody the most dysfunctional aspects of both Gridania and Limsa... Just FYI, I think this decision would be a LOT easier if Red Mage was a class in this game. EDIT: Interesting fact - I chose the name Miranda because it was the name my parents would have given me if I had been a girl, but just the other day I found out the name Miranda actually means "she who must be admired" - and that certainly describes my character!

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not Thaumaturges are actually as "strongly associated" with Ul'dah as Conjurers are with Gridania. At first glance they seem to be two sides of the same coin. However, one of the core themes of the BLM storyline is Ququruka and Lalai calling the others in the Guild out for being heretics who simply see their magic as a leverage tool and are kind of blowing off the whole "in service to Thal" aspect. After all, there are a lot of enemy Thaumaturge NPCs who don't seem to have any connection with Ul'dah, and the storyline implies that sufficient internal aether reserves and mental discipline are the primary skills one needs, unlike Conjury which seems to come about as a result of the elements agreeing to do your bidding. It seems to me like, using each discipline's approach to going to Wizarding School: Arcanists - Studied really hard for those As Thaumaturges - Managed to get As without studying Conjurers - Never went to wizarding school, instead being raised within the church & Gridanian religion If this is true, then I think my character would probably be a better fit for Thaumaturgy than Arcanima, as she tends to see magic as more of an "art" than a "science". But I never got to experience the 1.0 storyline, and those who have played it seem to insist that THMs are essentially Ul'dah's CNJs...very much priests. So what do you think? I've already decided my character will start out as a Conjurer, but I was thinking about having her switch Jobs halfway through her career (kind of like Cecil from FF4) due to coming to feel that Gridanians in general preach a good sermon but are by and large arrogant, hypocritical jerks.

So going by what Sounsyy said, it sounds to me like my character actually should be an Arcanist - because that art does not require "respect" for your city state's religion and traditions as such. But like I've said to death already, she only chose Conjury because she was attracted to it and thought it would fit her philosophy of life - but then the natives kept letting her down.

But the thing is, even if THMs are followers of Nald'Thal, I always got the impression that they had a lot in common with Shadow Priests in WoW: http://www.wowwiki.com/Cult_of_Forgotten_Shadow In other words, I always thought the main difference between the "teachings" of Nophica and Nald'thal was that Conjurers (and by extension White Mages) absorb greatness from nature and reflect that onto others, while Black Mages believe that power comes from within themselves; they use this power to shape the universe. In the story Ququruka actually calls the brothers of the guild out for being heretics and not showing true faith or devotion.

There's a famous saying "A few bad apples spoil the barrel" Gridania is much the same way - while Kan-E-Senna herself is confirmed to believe that it is best for Gridania to learn to accept outsiders, there's a lot of Wildwood Elezen who believe they are an inherently superior species, that the best form of government is tyranny, and that Adventurers in general are lowlifes who cannot be trusted. There are quite a few nice folks who are native to Gridania, but just like with Ul'dah, it's the jerks that get noticed. And really, I've always found it difficult to tell if the "negative stereotypes taken to an extreme" are the exception or the rule. Kan-E-Senna herself does not fit the stereotype of arrogance like I said, but your character almost always has to deal with various NPCs/questgivers that do fit the stereotype. No offense to the rest of you guys on this forum obviously, but I've always felt that FFXIV's universe is a LOT like the online gaming community in this regard - there's obviously plenty of cool and helpful high-end raiders, but the so-called "elitists" are the ones who give communities that bad name - to the point where many new and casual players alike just flat-out refuse to Heal or Tank in Duty Finder, because they don't want to be the victims of rudeness while they're still learning the ins and outs of their role.

I find that fits well with the whole aesthetic of Ul'dah compared to the others, which is that you rise and fall on your own merits, and primarily about rising your position. Honestly, I felt the aesthetic of Ul'dah was more along the lines of selfishness, apathy, and violence. Only a select few Ul'dahns manage to rise above their base nature to become something better, but the kernel of darkness is still inborn. If there isn't a profit to be made by making the world a hellhole, they might not, but if conditions are tolerable it certainly isn't due to any inborn altruism on the part of those in charge. If your character is not prepared to deal with someone who he/she grew to know as a close friend over months or even years turning out to have been lying the whole time in an effort to get into position to rob them of every last Gil they've accumulated, he/she shouldn't live in Ul'dah. If you ARE that someone, congratulations, you're living up the Ul'dahn life exactly as intended. But with Gridanians causing so much emotional harm to Miranda, it was hard for me to tell where else I should put her. So I came up with the idea of her getting lucky and having the thrill of becoming a Job class (namely the one that has the most relevance to the Main Scenario), or just finding a way to learn Thaumaturgy without having to go through the Guild. But whatever the case, my character is definitely allied with the Scions and not the City States.

My own character Miranda started out her career as a Conjurer. She was drawn to Gridania for its peace, and Conjury out of her desire to be respected. However, she resented the harsh treatment from the natives and by the time she defeated Ifrit she had decided that Gridania's arrogance proved that they weren't really a peace-loving breed and decided she'd rather work for the Scions, possibly switching classes in the process. I was thinking about having her switch to Summoner by finding a Soul Crystal and then learning Arcanima, but honestly, I got the impression that Thaumaturges were far more "on their own side" than their City State's. Prior to unlocking BLM's story, the whole "religious" side of Thaumaturgy seemed to be far more shoved to the background in the story compared to Conjurer - whereas Conjurer and Arcanist focus around directly serving your City State in some way, Thaumaturge's storyline centered more around your individual training, and felt a lot more like the type of magical art that a typical adventurer would learn for their own purposes, one who may or may not be interested in actually praying or being in service to Thal, unlike the Conjurers who have to develop trust with the elementals.

The class to RP my character Miranda as...it was a very, very difficult decision. Just as a reminder, the most defining traits of my character are: -Strongly disagrees with tough love. Believes respect is not something that should have to be earned. Bitter and angry at many of the townsfolk for treating her like dirt just because she is an Adventurer. -Peaceful by nature. Isn't exactly opposed to fighting in of itself, but very much hates the chauvinistic side of war. Not well suited to joining a Grand Company for these reasons. -Shows much greater skill and interest in magic than physical fighting. -Prefers to be alone, but can work with others if the situation calls for it. Several people I asked believed the best class would be Arcanist. But after much thought, I have reached a decision. Miranda's class is... CONJURER! As far as the class stereotypes go, I actually think that Miranda has many traits that are commonly seen in THMs and BLMs in the series alike - strong introversion, introspective, a certain degree of underlying bitterness, independent-minded. For me, what I ultimately had to do to decide on a class was to ask myself, "Why does my character Adventure? What is worth fighting for in her eyes?" Some people do it as a way to make money, others for glory, thrill, and many other reasons, but for my character, deep down, she is self-conscious - that is, she cares what everyone thinks of her. Thus, along with the fact that she would rather fight for peace rather than personal glory or fortune, she really has a deep need to be respected for what she does and who she is, which, unfortunately, is what leads to said resentment and cynicism over a good portion of the story. There are several major Conjurer NPCs in the storyline that display these key traits as well. For example, Kan-E-Senna is shown to strongly disagree with the Elezen's bigotry, believing that Adventurers are the salve Gridania needs. And Y'shtola calls out the people in the Titan storyline for using your character as a rug, and then there's the Conjurer adventurer you meet after Deepcroft who nearly gives up on her career after the tragic incident of letting the Tank die and losing the respect of her friends. And the other thing I had to bear in mind is this: At the start of her Adventuring career, what did Miranda know about what it was like to be any of the Disciplines of Magic? She'd barely spent any time in Eorzea, she didn't know the various Guildmasters, the most hardened Elezen, the "experience", shall we say, all she knew was that Conjurers apparently worked to maintain peace and balance, Thaumaturges were evidently the darkest & most aggressive of the three, and Arcanima was an entirely new branch of magic that somehow involved shaping aether through geometry. Miranda decided that she preferred channeling elemental powers through willpower rather than formulaic maths, and she just didn't want to live in a city controlled by money or join a guild that had a "bad reputation", whatever that entailed...thus, she became a Conjurer. I'll write a more detailed biography on her later, but for now that's my decision on the class.