Verence

The above post is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Making sides, drawing lines. Thank you for so ably illustrating my point. I'll go where the RP is, I don't care who does it or how. If it happens here, I'll be here. But realize attitudes like the one above are exactly what push people away. Since I'm sure more will try to turn this into precisely the sort of partisan situation it most emphatically is not, allow me to state the following unambiguously: I've had issues with Kylin in the past, but I do no longer - he's shown an ability and willingness to adapt to the needs of this site and its community, and I can only respect that.

I'm of a firm mind that what will not hurt the community is another site. What will hurt the community is a contrary, divisive attitude. I see people posting as if they're somehow personally offended by this, and that is a huge, huge red flag to me. That signals to me that egos are getting involved and that this may not even be about what is best for the community, but down to what people personally want of themselves. We're going to need to be able to see a bigger picture if we're going to be able to successfully navigate the future. But y'know something, I've said it once and I'll say it again... The RPC is not the Balmung roleplaying community, and at the moment isn't even very representative thereof. It's a sad fact, but the fact is that a lot of people simply don't like the RPC. Getting into the how and why is a bit pointless now but you know it and I know it. Anything that could draw them back into the larger community ought to be getting encouraged, not rained on. It'd be great if steps like a new site wasn't necessary to do this, but you know what? Steps like a new site seem necessary to do this. The RPC is simply too tainted to some eyes, and the attitudes displayed in this very thread isn't helping its case one bit. I know I'm certainly losing my enthusiasm for it, post by post. I know this is a slightly different stance than I had a few months back, but to my mind I tried to issue a wake-up call, and all it resulted in was further arguing and was mostly ignored. I, regrettably, no longer have faith in the RPC's ability to be the sole bridge that everyone needs. I'm sure it will work for plenty, but for those it won't, why on earth would you begrudge them an alternative? There should BE no sides in this, no loyalties but to RP itself. The very fact that there are any is what's hurting the community, not any number of websites devoted to it. It's the very notions, attitudes, and preconceptions we bring that draw the lines, not any arbitrary URL. The ability to get along must begin within each one of us before it translates into the game itself, and again - the RPC is not the community, nor does it speak for it because it does not fully represent it. I'd love it if it did, but it's time to face the reality that this simply is not the case. I see calls for unity, but with such a varied crowd, I don't think unity is achievable or even desirable. I'd prefer we're all simply able to coexist well enough to talk without getting hot and bothered so we can bloody well get to RPing already and stop pussyfooting all over about it.

It's supposed to be "peice", not "peace". As in "I said my piece." Hate to be nitpicky, but if that can of worms is opened already... Actually, he's correct. It's archaic English, but to speak your peace means to say something so that it won't bother you by leaving it unsaid, thus granting you peace. One could argue STATING your peace is a misuse, but I'm already flogging a dead horse and don't feel up for a BBQ. This is actually really discouraging. This is precisely the sort of attitude that tore the community apart in the first place, and to see it alive and kicking with such fervor makes me despair for our future. There will be no lines but those we draw. No divisions but those we create. It's so very hard to make friends when we keep flinging accusations. One of the most insulting, harmful things you can do in a debate is to assume you know the other person's motivations and throw those in their face. Another is to question their maturity, in so doing calling your own into question. If we cannot discuss things civilly, then there is truly no hope for our community. It's actually why I took a several month break a while back, in the process declining a position as a community moderator here. I lost hope. Please don't crush it once more. I don't know you that well Keisuna, but I've at least talked to you a few times. You missed a lot of the major fallout that got us where we are today, and a lot of it looked very much like what you just posted. I had my role to play back then and while I still stand by my views, I'm not necessarily proud of how they were stated. Harsh words, accusations, and bitterness are the worst thing that can possibly happen right now. Chill. Talk. Roleplay. Live and let live. The RPC isn't going anywhere. People need a place they can feel comfortable - here OR there, hopefully both - to be motivated to interact. They will have different cultures, different climates. THAT is the reason why I believe it will be beneficial. If the culture and climate of the RPC is one of vitriol and abuse... Well, I know which one I'll prefer. Please, don't make it that. It's your choice.

Well, it's been somewhat of a long and rocky road for AETHER, and not of the delicious icecream variety. Which is a shame, because Rocky Road > all other flavors. Where was I? Oh, yes. AETHER. I'll spare the eulogy and say simply this: AETHER, as an organization, is closing down. Most of our members (myself included!) have chosen online communities other than FF XIV to be part of, and though we may someday return, for now AETHER, as a body of members, simply has no presence in Eorzea. We wish the best for the Balmung roleplaying community and hold high hopes for a reunion in the future!

The two quotes, in proper context, are actually quite consonant - both point at the need for proper consideration in the context of discussing views of roleplaying within the bounds of OoC linkshell discussions. The second merely clarifies the reasoning for the statement of the first. Please, and I'll say this nicely, don't snip quotes divorced from their context in an attempt to set them against each other. Anything can be made to say anything else by careful word selection; this is the basis of many cults and some wacko religious zealotry. It actually really does annoy the heck out of me when people attempt to turn my words against themselves by divorcing them from their actual perspective and meaning. That probably sounds aggressive, but it's not really directed at you. I just get tired of how it seems to happen all the time, and it's never a valid representation of the ideas I'd expressed. A sore spot, I suppose. At any rate, I'd be happy to continue this discussion but to prevent this thread from becoming the Miyu And Verence Show, I suggest taking it to PMs!

Er... If I can respectfully point at my above post regarding making assumptions and speaking for those who haven't spoken... Actually, I'm not really keen on socializing. I have this pearl for one reason only: to keep abreast of IC events in the RP community. Nothing personal against anyone, I'm just not a friendly person and I don't really get a bang out of talking to people I don't know very well about whatever random topic is drifting about at the moment. I appreciate a lot of people do, and more power to them. I'm just not one of them. That's fine though, I can mute pearl and I do. No complaints from me. However, I'd also like to point out that we're not all adults and not all at the same level of maturity (though, as always, openly accusing someone else of immaturity only displays the accuser's own). Also, not all of the members of Intermission utilize this forum. Well-wishing and calls for unity are of course important and serve an essential purpose, but without a proposed plan of action or delineated methodology, "Let's all get along" remains a wish and not a resolution. I apologize if my tone seems contrary or aggressive; that's not my intent. I'd just like to point out that saying we all want the same thing isn't necessarily true. We all have our own reasons and motivations for RPing and our own thoughts on what we'd like to get out of it. We're not going to get along unless we agree to get along, and that's not a one-time decision, it's a dedicated effort. A decision that must be made each and every time someone says something you don't like or don't agree with. Is throwing your hat in the ring worth the disturbance it will cause? Is someone else's expressed view something that cannot go unanswered? Does it threaten you? If so, why? Should you take that out on them publicly or invite them to a private chat so you're not both "playing to the audience" and attempting to score points rather than truly sharing viewpoints? Is it worth saying anything at all? Honestly, I'd probably have kept quiet if not for the fact that you, Miyu, are actually one of the individuals whose in-shell comments concerned me enough to add that last paragraph to my former post in the first place. I understand that some of your views are at odds with some of others', but I just don't really see the need to jump into the middle a conversation about them with statements that bluntly contradict rather than add to the discussion. It seems... Contrary for the pure sake of contrariness. Different views ought to be appreciated and welcomed, but they ought to be stated respectfully and constructively or kept close to the vest. Please be mindful that a crusade for acceptance does not turn into an attack on differing views.

Just stepping in for a moment to comment on the following...

I'm gonna go with chocobo. The other cursors seem a bit too intricate and 'busy' -the animations are sort of distracting as well. The chocobo is simple enough to not be gaudy or distracting while being clear precisely what it points to and, if elected, will institute sweeping tax cuts for RPers. OK, so maybe not that last one.

I was going to ask for a pearl when I found the time to log on sometime this week, but if this is the sort of behavior that is the norm... Forget it, honestly. I'm happy to connect with the larger RP community, but I can't be arsed to suffer perversion, vulgarity, and drama for the sake of a chat. Without respect there can be no meaningful communication - if Intermission cannot self-regulate its radical elements then expect its less extreme ones to not stick around very long... Thus undermining the entire point of the exercise in the first place. Long ramble short: If people don't want to play nice, nobody will want to play with them.

Random systems can work fine in combat, it all depends on how you handle it. They are, after all, the traditional basis of conflict resolution in tabletop RPGS. No matter how good you are, sometimes you just have an off day or random happenstance prevents success. Now, it usually doesn't, and the skilled opponent will nearly always succeed, but there is always that chance. However, for dice rolling to work in the context of RP, you have to get a few things out of the way on ground level. First, everyone must be familiar and comfortable with the system ahead of time. This is VITAL. If people feel any given system disrupts their RP, they won't appreciate it breaking the flow. The key is for it to be ingrained enough that it DOESN'T. Only then does it become useful and not a distraction. Corollary to this is that everyone must agree with how the system works and to be bound by its results ahead of time. Of course, achieving this depends on whether or not people agree with HOW that system works. So, how do you set up something like this? I agree that a routine sword swing being just as easily hit as missed is a bit ridiculous for a seasoned combat veteran taking a swing at a random street thug. TRUE randomization is not desirable; things must be offset. Uncertainty is only exciting if it gives an edge to our experience, not erodes the confidence in our ability to accurately portray our characters. So, we need rules. Many RPG systems accomplish this via boundary values, often called 'difficulties'. We'll just dispense with the one-or-multiple dice discussion here since /random spam is undesirable for obvious reasons. For this same reason, when settling a fight you probably don't want to roll for each individual action - just roll to see who wins and by what margin, then ad-lib. Dice are not and should never be a substitute for clear, concise OOC communication when deciding IC conflicts. They only work if everyone has agreed, via OOC communication, mutual trust, and confidence in the system, to be bound by the results. This being the case, it's virtually impossible to enforce this across the broad spectrum of the community, as everyone will have different opinions on how to interpret the numbers! Still, greater global awareness and familiarity can make a quick compromise on a roll's terms relatively simple. If you can't reach this with someone, you probably shouldn't be roleplaying IC conflicts with them. Perhaps also obvious but for the sake of transparent reasoning best stated explicitly, is that everyone must WANT to use the system. Strong-arming people into using it will only breed resentment and hurt roleplay. However, if people are comfortable, familiar, and confident in the conflict-resolving abilities of a fair and balanced "dice rolling" system, it can streamline and enhance RP while adding that ever-lurking factor of excitement and uncertainty into situations. After all, no matter how good you are, you MIGHT trip on a jutting flagstone you hadn't accounted for - not a failure of skill, but pure cosmic chance! So, how does a balanced /random system work in action? I don't have a 'perfect' example, but back in Canta Per Me in FFXI, we'd /random to resolve situations where the outcome wasn't totally clear from the outset, and not just in combat. Someone's falling - do you catch them? The faintest of boot-scrapes announces an assassin is lurking in the tunnel ahead - do you hear it? Two roughly equivalent combatants square off - who carries the day? Rather than babble an explanation, here's a made-up example: Verence 1.0 (Far less awkward, major stick up his ass, long story) has decided that the young wastrel who has stolen his crumpet is due a drubbing. Little does he realize, this wastrel is an agile crumpet assassin in disguise! We'll set the "difficulty" for the hit to connect at 800 out of 1000. This could be 8/10, 80/100, 40/50, it really doesn't matter so long as the scale is prearranged. CPM used 1000 since that's just how XI /random worked. How far above or below that value determines the degree of success or failure. We can see that there's much more room for degrees of failure than success here, as the crumpet assassin is not only an experienced drubbing-dodger, but is expecting the attack. For a truly superlative roll - say 980, we might rule 'critical hit' and RP as if the assassin had been caught totally flat-footed. For a spectacularly awful one, perhaps... 60, we might rule a botch/critical failure and say any number of things happened. Verence trips. Verence snags his cufflinks on something and rips his sleeve, throwing the punch wide. The assassin dodges and Verence splinters a produce stand with his mighty fist, sending vegetable flying everywhere! Dice are never a replacement for creativity and RP, but they can resolve the issue of "Did Verence punch the crumpet assassin or not?" when I think he ought to hit and the other player thinks he ought to miss - or we're just really not sure how that would pan out. Things need to be kept relatively simple; we're not playing Warhammer here. A brief chat, a quick roll, and get on with the roleplaying. Postscript: There's also simply "rolling against" each other, a system that has its own unique considerations, but I'm sure 90% of the readers of this thread have already glazed over at my profuse and effulgent verbiage, so I'm not even gonna go there unless someone's masochist enough to actually request it.

I protest on the grounds that everyone who disagrees with me smells and probably mugs kittens. Oh wait, it's already all decided? Well bugger, there goes my shot at a flame war. But to be serious for a moment, I like the way they handled this (the second time). We just need to sit tight and the RPers stay together, everyone who OMGHAETs us can find somewhere else to spew vitriol, and those who've been wondering what they're missing out on can hop on board. And hey, we even got our "lucky" number. The only thing missing is bacon...

I smell a flamewar brewing, so to step in before things get touched off... Calling for respect and decency is entirely appropriate. Doing so immediately after sarcastic passive-aggression is not. Give and ye shall receive. This goes for everyone. Now play nice! :bomb:

[spoil] [/spoil] Just my little nod to some of the attitudes in the RP server thread on the official forums.

For me, at least personally, one of the major issues I have with a lot of RP is that so much of it is just casual socializing. I don't, speaking bluntly, find that interesting. What I find interesting is when things happen, when character development occurs, when characters' views are explored or challenged, when they witness or achieve things they might never have considered. Simply hanging out and chatting doesn't really do much for me - I don't even like doing that much OOCly, and if I ever have the urge I can just prod a few of my mates and get some video games and beer into the equation! What encourages me to RP is meaningful, limited-scale interactions that explore the thoughts, views, relationships, and abilities of a character. Now, naturally you can't do this every session, nor should you expect to - otherwise you're priming your character for some PTSD due to EPIC overload (a situation that actually started to happen to some characters in my XI linkshell as a number of us began to OOCly realize that all the EPIK stuff happening would have our chars riding the ragged edge of sanity!). This means that the RP I most enjoy is not, by nature, all-inclusive. Not because EW THOSE OTHER RPERS ARE but because when you get a lot of random characters around just doing whatever, it's not fun for me. It's like going to a party and sitting around, which some people enjoy - and hey, if you do, great! I think MOST people probably do. But I don't, and though I can't speak for how many have similar views to my own I'm confident that, at the least, I'm not the only one. Now, naturally there must be a means for your character to MEET other people from which to spin off into above-mentioned RPs so I do wholeheartedly and without irony endorse social meetup events. I just seem to see (and this may be simply my own misconception) a public view that encourages this sort of RP but never really acknowledges the other sort. Me, I'm most engaged when I'm involved in a mini plotline or developing situation that intricately entangles a select handful of characters. One of my favorite aspects of RP is seeing characters grow and change in response to the people they've known and the things they've done. I enjoy thinking up and plotting out story arcs. I'd probably be doing a lot more of this if I ever had the time to log in, which sadly I don't! Anyhow, this isn't really an argument for or against anything. Simply an opinionated ramble trying to show the other side of the coin. Large-scale social interactions are well and good, but they're not even half of the picture for this RPer.

Someone say trolls? It just seemed appropriate, somehow. Please ignore the unwitting sexual innuendo.

Actually, Merri's post makes a lot of sense. We should probably treat this poll as tentative and make a final decision when we know who's going where. However, I wouldn't really say it's "jumping the gun" per se, as OTHER groups may make decisions based on where WE go! There is a fair number of us at least. I'd say let the poll roll, but don't take it as The Final Word. In the end, as long as we don't wind up on the same server as, say, RP Hater's Anonymous we're probably going to be just fine.

I agree with the notion of choosing a ways down the list as those servers will likely be less popular, but choosing 7 for this very purpose seems counterproductive to me. The number 7 has a long and illustrious history as a "lucky" number and even has religious significance in Judaism. If we're selecting a server based on popularity, 7 is probably one of the worst we could choose. I do sorta agree with the notion of "specialized servers at the end of the list", seems logical and organized. I'm going with the 9 crowd.

I'd like to keep Height Conversions and Time and Measurements in Hydaelyn around. They're handy references.

4chan is never a good idea. Or was there supposed to be an image there?

This program is probably going on indefinite hold. I'm so busy I don't always have the time to even sleep properly and will remain so for the next four months at least, possibly even seven. I unfortunately don't have any consistent amount of time to sink into this, and in what sparse free moments I have, I would sort of prefer not to add bureaucracy to my schedule... :geek: Sorry, it looks like we've simply run out of time on this one for now.

The AETHER student interest meeting has been postponed until Friday January 6th, 8pm EST so as not to conflict with Unity Vigil. Due to my schedule in the coming year, this prevents me from having quite as much time as I'd hoped to help get things rolling before I get busy... But it did give me an idea. This community is anything if not independent. It has demonstrated many times in the past (sometimes with me among the vanguard) that it resents any sort of control or dictation. I've spent this time thinking "What is it AETHER can do for the community" but perhaps a better question is, "How can AETHER provide a framework for the community to do things for itself?" But, AETHER is a small shell. It doesn't have the dedicated manpower to insure this program, if it becomes popular, will prosper. So, how will it? If those interested in seeing it succeed help us realize that vision. I don't know how much oversight and coordination is going to be required because that depends 100% on how many people get involved, but it's going to need at least some. I'd encourage anyone interested in helping this program grow to contact me via PM or tells. The student initiative may have been started by AETHER, but it's not for our sake. It's for the sake of encouraging interaction and roleplay among everyone in the larger community.

Not trying to troll, just a bit honestly curious - were you aware that this has been attempted before, with Redpearl? The shell's still active, though a trifle dead of late. Having two "all inclusive" shells for the same purpose might unwittingly encourage further division since people might be reluctant to clutter up their LS list and divide their attentions... Further consider that some RPers don't like OOC chatter spamming their log and through no malice towards anyone simply wouldn't be interested in an OOC social shell. Now, due to my scheduling I admit I miss a lot of NA primetime, but is prejudice, elitism, and discrimination among the RP community still an issue? I honestly haven't noticed any in a very long time, but then I'm not the most active of RPers so it's entirely possible I'm simply missing it. Don't get me wrong, I fully support any efforts aimed at increasing communication and interaction, but I wonder if this is quite the way to go about it with a similar framework already in place - if I believed the solution to the community's woes was to found a new group, I probably wouldn't still be hanging out here at the RPC. If Redpearl is announced dead/defunct/disbanded, then this has my full and enthusiastic endorsement, but... Perhaps we should look at what we have already and attempt to make THAT work, rather than introduce a potentially divisive choice to the community? Furthermore, if Redpearl IS defunct, perhaps we need to look into how and why it failed, so this LS won't go down the same road? Again, not trying to be a downer, I'd just like to see a bit of thought and discussion go into how to make things work so we can avoid the pitfalls of trails already blazed.

The following flyer can be assumed to be seen posted about in public locales, not just those frequented by adventurers. In order to gauge community interest as well as seek feedback, the Academy of Exceptionally Trained Hydaelyn Explorers and Researchers will be holding an interest meeting regarding their upcoming student program. This meeting is open to the public and all interested in education, training, and research are encouraged to attend. Furthermore, the academy is seeking individuals of expertise to serve as associate instructors so as to offer as wide a variety of course material as possible. All interested may contact Chancellor Meillune via post, or simply attend the meeting to be held on the 30th sun of the 6th astral moon in Mih Khetto's Amphitheatre, Gridania at the 8th evening bell. We sincerely hope to see you there! Friday December 30th, 8pm EST. Timing isn't perfect, so if you are interested and can't make it, feel free to PM me or drop by AETHER'S forum!

The rough framework of the student program has been settled, and can be read in the link above. Now more than ever, input both IC and OOC is important as things are not yet set in stone, but we'll soon be getting things started. There will be an IC interest meeting on Friday the 30th at 8pm EST, which will have an accompanying IC announcement soon. The date's a bit unfortunate, but due to my own regrettable schedule I may not have time to get things started properly for a long while if they don't get rolling soon... I fully understand this isn't the most convenient time of year for this sort of thing with many people out of town, so the program will probably be a continual process of refinement as ideas and discussion crop up. Feel free to use the above link to chime in, or to PM me either ICly or OOCly at any time. Here's hoping for a fun, accessible framework to encourage RP and interaction!

While we're at it... Necrologos! Where's it from? Who wrote it? How is it that its pages get scattered bloody everywhere? And since it supposedly summons creatures dredged from the seven hells... Are we to assume hell is full of opo-opos, chigoes, and random animals? I mean you gotta admit, monkeys from hell are a LITTLE scary, but... Back in the day, we had an OOC running joke in AETHER that the Necrologos was actually written by a pissed off farmer who wanted to get even with the guy in the next field over. "Grow better potatoes than ME, will ya? PLAGUE OF RANDOM ANIMALS!" LATER EDIT: I could have sworn there was specific mention of the hells in the Necrologos leve text, but after a full review it only mentions "Arcane demons" bound within the pages. Either I'm remembering wrong or there's been a ninja edit. Either way, above question can be modified as follows: The Necrologos is written in Sharlayan. Is it from there? Who wrote it, how, and why? Is it only one book, a collection of specific books, or a catch-all term for books that bind monsters inside of them? How is it there are so many copies everywhere, and their pages get torn out and scattered so often? Why is the term "Demon" used for the decidedly ordinary creatures it harbors?