RPC -- Who are we?

[Nanapariri]

90% of the drama I witnessed and experienced within Sylph was the end result of poor communication' date=' or a lack of communication altogether.[/quote']

 

This is the truth this is why the policy should be that there is a thread built for every cross-guild event where OOC discussion is done in advance. I never heard of an issue happening during a cross-guild event in Starsider because of this policy.

 

This didn't stop troublemakers from trying to start something but all I needed to do is point out the following:

 

1) We posted the rules in the thread in advance so you know this isn't appropriate.

 

2) If you are being disruptive and rufuse to follow the rules, according to the harrassment policy for the Community and the game standards of conduct, I have the right to report you to a GM and complain about your guild.

 

I never had one person not back down. They didn't want a scene.

 

Here's an example of how what I'm talking about above could be expressed as a policy or rules:

 

General Rules of Conduct

 

The RPC recognizes that groups with many different RP styles will be congregating together because this is the purpose. With differences of opinion sometimes conflicts will arise so the RPC members are expected to abide by the following rules of conduct.

 

1) Battle/Conflict Guidelines:

 

A) Always communicate OOC when in a situation where conflict is happening IC so that you both agree in advance how to handle the situation before the fight starts.

 

B) Respect the other players right to prefer different forms of battle. If you can't agree then don't battle.

 

C) God moding is never acceptable in conflict. According to the RPC the definition of God-modding is " performing any action against another person's character without asking their permission". If a person refuses to communicate OOC with you and insists on God moding immediately stop the battle and follow the dispute guidelines of the RPC.

 

D) Any IC Guild Fueds must be agreed to in advance by both guilds and regulated by those guilds as agreed to.

 

2) Player Conduct Guidelines:

 

A) All members of the RPC agree to respect all other members of the community and the varying styles of RP as valid.

 

B) Harrasment is never acceptable. Harassment as defined by the RPC as "belittling a player and their actions repeatedly in public or private. stalking, advances or statements of a sexual nature that are unwanted, griefing other players by purposely disrupting them in game OOC or ICly and creating smear campaigns in the community in game, the RPC forums, Guild forums or outside game forums". If you are a victim of harassment get evidence of the harassment and follow the dispute guidelines of the RPC.

 

C) Meta-gaming and God Moding are against the RPC standards ( see the definition above for God Moding) so always show respect for other players by asking them if it is alright for your character to discover any information about their character that is private and ask permission in a /tell before preforiming any actions agaisnt that character.

 

D) Do not post complaints about guilds or persons on the RPC forums. Follow the RPC dispute guidelines. If any such threads are posted the admins will lock them and issue warnings to the offenders and their guild.

 

3) RPC Sponsers Cross-Guild Events

 

1) In order for an event to be considered an RPC Sponsered event the following guidelines must be followed.

 

A) An Event Organizer must post a thread for OOC discussion while planning the event in the event planning forum.

 

B) The Organizer must have a host or hosts chosen to be sure that the conduct guidelines are being followed.

 

C) The rules for the event along with the final time and place must be posted ahead of time in the "RPC Event Annoucement Thread" with a link to the discussion thread so that those who wish to attend questions can be addressed in advance.

 

D) Everyone who attends the event recognizes they are aggreeing to follow the direction of the organizer, hosts and event rules. If they do not do so and a problem arises they are subject to the RPC Dispute Guidelines and may be disciplined.

 

4) RPC Dispute Guidelines

 

When an argument or dispute errupts between RPC members they are expected to follow the steps below before the issue is brought before the RPC Council.

 

A) If you are being harrased in game and it is in violation of the TOS agreement of FFXIV you have the right to report the person to a GM to stop the harassment. Inform the person that if they do not stop you will report them. If warning isn't sufficient report them.

 

B) Take a screen shot or have witnesses to back up your claims of harrasment or god moding and bring the offences to the attention to the leader of that persons guild. If they are a freelancer report the offence via PM to "whoever is designated for that responsibilty to Freelancers". Let the guild deal with discipline.

 

C) If the guild refuses to handle it take this evidence to the RPC and let them decide how to handle the situation. You will be informed of the RPC's decision and must abide by it.

 

D) Do not create OOC drama in the game or on the board over disagreements if you do then you may be diciplined.

 

E) RPC Disciplinary Actions

 

Unless a conflict is so bad that it is against the TOS of the game or the offenders refused to cease the behavior the dispute guidelines need not be used and dicipline will not be given by the RPC Council.

 

F) With the first offence a warning is given to the offending guild or individual.

 

G) With the second the offending guild or person may be given a period of suspension where they are no longer allowed to recruit on the board or particpate in RPC Sponsered events. Suspension will be removed once the guild or person has dealt with the issue.

 

H) With the third offence the Council will vote on whether to expel the guild or person permanately from the RPC.

 

That's a sample/idea of what could be done.

 

I think we have to consider what qualifies a guild into accepting membership in the RPC.

 

I like the idea of there having to be a Rep from that guild as a liason to the RPC leadership.

 

There should be individuals set up to run the RPC and be moderators that can be the last word on diciplinary matters.

 

I still think the Starsider Policy of forcing the people to work their disputes out themselves and not drag the community into it is superior than the RPC making a policy that requires there be people and a system set up to dicipline offenders but if you guys insist on it plese don't make it complicated.

[Guest]

If everyone keeps dwelling on the drama that happened on Sylph, we're never really going to move forward from that point. It's really important that, while we realize what happened back then, that we move on. The goal here(at least IMO) is to make an open-ended, easily accessible, enjoyable roleplay for everyone. Not just the hardcore people who have been following FF roleplay since the PC launch. Referencing the past isn't going to do much to achieve the goal, because Sylph - and FFXI's - roleplay was pretty much the exact opposite of that.

 

It wasn't easy to get into, and once someone was in, they were up to your neck in OOC drama and shellfights. Roleplayers thought themselves ostracized from the general public, were hesitant to include others who were just trying to get involved, and then often wondered why they were called 'too serious'. The community wasn't very nice, and many of them were a lot more focused on themselves then what should of been the actual priority: the fun.

 

As of right now, everyone's got a clean slate. I'd prefer taking the 'we'll cross that bridge when we get to it' route, because not every situation can be glossed over or set to a certain charter. I think the RP community is mature enough to handle themselves without being babysat at every turn, and if something so horrible to the extent of actually meriting punishment happens - couldn't one just blacklist and move on, or just try and talk it out with the offending party?

 

Personally, I think a really good idea would be to try and get all the roleplayers onto a single server, and then advertise the server as a whole as a nice place to roleplay. Just be like, "Yeah man, if you wanna RP, go to the Cid Server". Just relax, roleplay where you can, include people even if you don't know them.

 

That brings up the issue of guilds, but it shouldn't even be an issue: guilds, to me, are just IC tools for your character to express their preference in company. They shouldn't be built on 'oh, i joined this one because it has better rules', or something. It should be an IC-choice, and IC guilds.

 

It worked really well for the WoW-server I'm on(which is currently the best RP server), and roleplay just flourishes on both factions. You can't walk two feet in Silvermoon without running into tons of IC people, people you can interact with or not, regardless if they're not in your guild, or if you even know them. It's an open-world free-for-all.

 

I mean, there could be a general conduct code.

But one shouldn't expect for everyone to be aware of it ingame. Just chill, roleplay, and have fun.

And that's where RPC would come in... it'd just be an enabler to let people meet, find out more about one another and their characters, and scout out factions for their character to join.

 

Again, I don't know if anything I say means anything, but I think it's something everyone should think about.

[Verence]

Bear with me as I try to convert hastily jotted notes into actually fluent English, and forgive any terseness due to this fact! Also, TEXT AVALANCHE.

 

Structure

1-2 representatives from each sounds great. I'd suggest an RPC council with a private section of the boards only they can see to discuss problems, and potentially have a monthly meeting to keep everyone updated on what's going on to keep problems smoothed and the cross-guild RP flowing. Real authority would for the most part be deferred to the actual guild leaders, who may or may not be the actual guild representatives, but in the (should be) very rare event that the council has to make a mandate, it would carry the weight of the support of all guilds of the coalition, via their representatives. Too much stuff from On High will make the RPC seem restrictive, and people will begin to chafe and resent the perceived control. Leave as much as possible up to the leaders and members of the community and step in only when it's necessary... Not even every time it's requested, necessarily. Some will try to hide behind higher authority rather than resolve problems themselves.

 

 

Neutrality and Authority

Essentially, to my mind, the RPC should exert its authority as little as possible. It should be a last-resort thing to head off trouble, not a set of guidelines all must follow. When problems arise (and they will, believe me, the two most drama-prone groups in MMOs are end-gamers and RPers), the guild leader(s) of the person/people in question ought to be expected to take care of things. If they cannot, THEN they can appeal to the RPC council, or the RPC council can ask them to step up resolution then step in if the leaders can't/won't handle it. As for slander against the RPC as a whole... It's too broad a subject with too many nuances to make hard-and-fast rules. Let the RPC council discuss them as they come up and attempt to reach as peaceful and drama-free a solution as possible.

 

RPC Standards

PvP conflict is always INCREDIBLY sticky stuff. I generally try to avoid it even if it's a bit OOC to do so for my character because with no clear rules in place and the fact that you simply can't kill another character no matter what, it just turns into a mess of trying to get in a good fight without stepping on anyone's toes. It's fairly common for people to get so personally invested in their characters that they OOCly get hurt/offended when their char gets kicked around. I strongly support drafting up some RPC-standard conflict resolution guidelines. I don't necessarily think they ought to be enforced as a first solution, they ought to be something to fall back upon if the involved parties can't reach a resolution within their own guild's in-house policies so we don't have to go pussyfooting around and shy from character conflicts for fear of offense.

 

In the same vein, standards/etiquette/guidelines/etc for the RPC isn't a half bad idea, but try to keep them simple and general. Two complete delineated rulesets, both individual guilds and then the RPC will make heads spin. We're here to have fun, not be lawyers. I've seen some ideas expressed that I think work pretty well: Event organizer's event, event organizer's rules. If a conflict flares up and they just can't work it out, there are RPC guidelines to fall back upon, but this should be a last resort. Again, too much micromanagement will make people chafe.

 

The Public

RPers can seem pretty insular to the community at large simply due to the fact we have our own thing and our own plots going that are OURS, and nobody has a clue what it is we're standing around prattling about in the town square (though CPM tries to avoid RPing in busy areas out of courtesy to non-RPers). Sometimes passersby will try to interact with RPers, not realizing what's going on, and often RPers will ignore them because, let's face it, it's hard to RP with someone who isn't RPing. They use concepts and game terms that don't translate well. The non-RPer walks off thinking RPers are cliquish jerks who blow people off. CPM's general policy has been to just... Respond ICly to anything random people interject. People tend to either get confused and wander off, or join right in. Win/win. Greifers tend to give up in disgust as RPers refuse to take them seriously, though I have in the past successfully GM'd insistent and crude griefers and gotten them temp-banned.

 

Basically what we in CPM have found is that the best policy is open-door. If someone stumbles into an RP and starts talking, RP with them. If they get confused, explain what's going on in OOC /tells. Above all remain friendly and welcoming. It's served us well as some drama erupted over the griefer I got temp-banned on the Alla board and many people in the larger OOC community told him that CPM was a bit weird, yet nothing but cordial and if he got his ass banned then he must have deserved it.

[Nanapariri]

Bear with me as I try to convert hastily jotted notes into actually fluent English, and forgive any terseness due to this fact! Also, TEXT AVALANCHE.

 

Structure

1-2 representatives from each sounds great. I'd suggest an RPC council with a private section of the boards only they can see to discuss problems, and potentially have a monthly meeting to keep everyone updated on what's going on to keep problems smoothed and the cross-guild RP flowing. Real authority would for the most part be deferred to the actual guild leaders, who may or may not be the actual guild representatives, but in the (should be) very rare event that the council has to make a mandate, it would carry the weight of the support of all guilds of the coalition, via their representatives. Too much stuff from On High will make the RPC seem restrictive, and people will begin to chafe and resent the perceived control. Leave as much as possible up to the leaders and members of the community and step in only when it's necessary... Not even every time it's requested, necessarily. Some will try to hide behind higher authority rather than resolve problems themselves.

 

 

Neutrality and Authority

Essentially, to my mind, the RPC should exert its authority as little as possible. It should be a last-resort thing to head off trouble, not a set of guidelines all must follow. When problems arise (and they will, believe me, the two most drama-prone groups in MMOs are end-gamers and RPers), the guild leader(s) of the person/people in question ought to be expected to take care of things. If they cannot, THEN they can appeal to the RPC council, or the RPC council can ask them to step up resolution then step in if the leaders can't/won't handle it. As for slander against the RPC as a whole... It's too broad a subject with too many nuances to make hard-and-fast rules. Let the RPC council discuss them as they come up and attempt to reach as peaceful and drama-free a solution as possible.

 

RPC Standards

PvP conflict is always INCREDIBLY sticky stuff. I generally try to avoid it even if it's a bit OOC to do so for my character because with no clear rules in place and the fact that you simply can't kill another character no matter what, it just turns into a mess of trying to get in a good fight without stepping on anyone's toes. It's fairly common for people to get so personally invested in their characters that they OOCly get hurt/offended when their char gets kicked around. I strongly support drafting up some RPC-standard conflict resolution guidelines. I don't necessarily think they ought to be enforced as a first solution, they ought to be something to fall back upon if the involved parties can't reach a resolution within their own guild's in-house policies so we don't have to go pussyfooting around and shy from character conflicts for fear of offense.

 

In the same vein, standards/etiquette/guidelines/etc for the RPC isn't a half bad idea, but try to keep them simple and general. Two complete delineated rulesets, both individual guilds and then the RPC will make heads spin. We're here to have fun, not be lawyers. I've seen some ideas expressed that I think work pretty well: Event organizer's event, event organizer's rules. If a conflict flares up and they just can't work it out, there are RPC guidelines to fall back upon, but this should be a last resort. Again, too much micromanagement will make people chafe.

 

The Public

RPers can seem pretty insular to the community at large simply due to the fact we have our own thing and our own plots going that are OURS, and nobody has a clue what it is we're standing around prattling about in the town square (though CPM tries to avoid RPing in busy areas out of courtesy to non-RPers). Sometimes passersby will try to interact with RPers, not realizing what's going on, and often RPers will ignore them because, let's face it, it's hard to RP with someone who isn't RPing. They use concepts and game terms that don't translate well. The non-RPer walks off thinking RPers are cliquish jerks who blow people off. CPM's general policy has been to just... Respond ICly to anything random people interject. People tend to either get confused and wander off, or join right in. Win/win. Greifers tend to give up in disgust as RPers refuse to take them seriously, though I have in the past successfully GM'd insistent and crude griefers and gotten them temp-banned.

 

Basically what we in CPM have found is that the best policy is open-door. If someone stumbles into an RP and starts talking, RP with them. If they get confused, explain what's going on in OOC /tells. Above all remain friendly and welcoming. It's served us well as some drama erupted over the griefer I got temp-banned on the Alla board and many people in the larger OOC community told him that CPM was a bit weird, yet nothing but cordial and if he got his ass banned then he must have deserved it.

 

QFW

 

It pretty much summarizes the way I feel.

 

Though I personally don't think a "Rule Set" of how and when a person has to handle battle I could see it posted as a suggested way to handle the situation if they can't decide how to handle it themselves. If you try to make it a rule it would be next to impossible to enforce because it happens so often you'll be dealing with it during time you could spend on thing more beneficial for the group. If you insist on making it a standard that has to "kick in" without question it will not go over very well.

 

Basically if you say "in order to prevent problems when you can't decide how to handle an IC conflict we offer the following endorsed RPC suggestion." This way you aren't obligated to step in and discipline anyone.

 

I think a simple mission statement as to how we should view the "public" and be friendly and open should suffice on that.

[Eva]

The goal here(at least IMO) is to make an open-ended' date=' easily accessible, enjoyable roleplay for everyone. Not just the hardcore people who have been following FF roleplay since the PC launch. Referencing the past isn't going to do much to achieve the goal, because Sylph - and FFXI's - roleplay was pretty much the exact opposite of that.[/quote']

I will agree that that is the goal. I disagree however that Sylph's RP at least (I truly cannot speak for the other servers, however they may feel similarly) was anything less than similar to that goal. I realize you were not a part of it for most of its lifecycle, but Crystalline thrived for six years, having only one or two real slow spots. The last three years or so was mostly free from drama (largely because at that point our administration was a pretty well-oiled machine and we took care of the issues promptly and accordingly). I worked diligently with various other officers throughout its lifespan to the end that most of its members enjoyed themselves and had a good time. And while I've always considered myself a rather lousy leader, I'm still proud of the fact that it was as good as it was, and withstood all that it did.

 

Traydon, while I am giving you the benefit of a clean slate, I do not think it prudent to disregard the past issues that have occurred. It is already clear to me that the two of us will probably want different things out of a community, which is why I disagree about the remark about guilds being regarded as IC tools rather than separate substructures. For some guilds this may be a good idea, but there are going to be RPers that wish to have something a little more structured than the laissez-faire sort of guild you seem to be seeking. Which is fine. We are two different breeds of RPer, and we can still meet at the table here in the RPC and have conversations and dialogues such as this. I believe that's the whole point of this coalition.

 

I don't wish to prattle on about differences in what will eventually be individual guild policies, however. The discussion should remain focused on what the role of the RPC should be, and I suspect the above paragraph may prove a worthy example in and of itself - a place where members of different guilds with different views may still come together and discuss thoughts, share stories, and exchange ideas.

[Guest]

Well, yes, no one is saying that Crystalline wasn't around, or working to be a good shell.

 

I was merely saying that roleplay on Sylph, and in FFXI was not any of those things: open-ended, easily accessible, and enjoyable for everyone. Roleplays were scripted, one had to jump through endless hoops to be considered to join, many important character developments usually happened in forums, and for every person having a good time with stories - there were several being left out. While things may have been fun and games for the lucky Sylph-folks who were in Crystalline, it was always an uphill battle for those who weren't.

 

In all honesty, I think it's best for everyone to just forget what happened in the past. Many unfair and biased things were said on both sides, but assuming that certain people don't make the same mistakes they have in the past, it shouldn't be anything to worry about now. Keeping it in mind will only form unrest against certain individuals, and it'll go downhill from there. I mean, I didn't even know until a few hours ago that Cestial = Islude, and I'm not even sure who you are either. I've already left it all behind, and quite literally years later, people are still discussing those things?

 

I'm not trying to start anything, or be a jerk, or anything. Just my opinion & point of view.

 

So we're at an agreement! RPC is a meeting place for all the roleplayers! Hooray! <:

[Eva]

I was/am Dyterium in FF11.

FFV image to lighten the mood a bit

 

I just want to touch on a couple more points, then I'm done with this and on to happier discussions.

 

I've already left it all behind' date=' and quite literally years later, people are still discussing those things?[/quote']

As far as I'm concerned, past transgressions were forgiven a very long time ago. But not forgotten. If we forget our history, we are often doomed to repeat it. Which is the very reason I think this is being discussed now.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I will speak for myself. I fell out of the habit of carrying grudges sometime over the past couple of years, and the last thing I want to see this turn into is a flame war, but your post seems to insinuate that Crystalline was an exclusive group that only let in select people, and implied that you were not given multiple chances to RP with us. Perhaps I misread your meaning. I just wanted to clarify that very few people were turned away during our lifespan, and for very good reasons when they were. There were very clear reasons for why things were the way they were, though. I am sure things have changed a lot over the past five years and I have already said that you have carte blanche in my book. FFXIV is a new world for us all, with new adventures to be held, new obstacles to be crossed, and new friendships to be made.

 

That all being said I've reread Verence's post a few times over and feel that it is a very great place to start! I agree with every point on there.

[Nanapariri]

Traydon' date=' while I am giving you the benefit of a clean slate, I do not think it prudent to disregard the past issues that [i']have[/i] occurred. It is already clear to me that the two of us will probably want different things out of a community, which is why I disagree about the remark about guilds being regarded as IC tools rather than separate substructures. For some guilds this may be a good idea, but there are going to be RPers that wish to have something a little more structured than the laissez-faire sort of guild you seem to be seeking. Which is fine. We are two different breeds of RPer, and we can still meet at the table here in the RPC and have conversations and dialogues such as this. I believe that's the whole point of this coalition.

 

I don't wish to prattle on about differences in what will eventually be individual guild policies, however. The discussion should remain focused on what the role of the RPC should be, and I suspect the above paragraph may prove a worthy example in and of itself - a place where members of different guilds with different views may still come together and discuss thoughts, share stories, and exchange ideas.

 

I think really what he means, and at least what I mean is, we don't want so many rules that people won't cross-guild RP for fear of breaking rules. I might be taking this wrong, but I sort of had that feeling you feel spontaenous unplanned RP without events shouldn't happen If there are guilds/LS.

 

On Starsider I belonged to a guild with rules and structure but I also Rped with people from other guilds and free lancer just because they were at an RP hub. A RP hub was a place that a lot of Rpers hung out at when they were bored. Some of the most fun I had in SWG RP was from unplanned spontaenous RPs with people I just met. If I'd have been worried that by interacting with that person I might break some rule and be kicked out I would' ve missed out on meeting people that later became friends.

 

I'd hoped that cross guild RP in this RPC and server would encourage random and spontaneous interaction as well as event based. I'm getting the feeling the reason you all want rules for battle and all cross-guild actions is because you are not in favor of being spontaenous feeling it will only create drama. Am I right? I hope I'm not since I really hoped people could have fun with random encounters as well as events.

[Eva]

Last post for me before bed. Will follow up tomorrow from work if there are more concerns.

 

I think you have me all wrong. When I say I'm in favor of rules and structure, I do not mean exclusivity within one guild and no spontaneity. I mean I don't necessarily want to be RPing with the silly stuff like the blue skin and glowing eyes and grown wings. I can appreciate some of the more subtle things. I have preferred my RP in keeping with the lore of the game. Others in the past have been bent on adding elements like this to RP in the name of creativity, but a lot of it comes across as being over the top, overkill, or just downright cliche sometimes. Frankly, it's the godmode I worry most about, and that blurry line between what should be acceptable and what should not be. This line will lie in different places in different guilds, as well, no doubt.

 

I have little opinion on the methods for RPing combat. This was seldom a concern I ran into in FFXI (I think I remember one battle between two individuals where there was no communication, neither wanted to lose, and it turned godmodish fast). However I can see how it could be an issue under the right circumstances. I've participated in RP duels though where I had worked out a sort of interplay with the rival, often planning in advance to be defeated. Once or twice a third (and fourth) party would suddenly and spontaneously intervene and this was more than cool with me, even without prior communication, so long as it was done gracefully.

 

In fact, I had posted earlier that I took issue once during a cross-linkshell event where I was essentially prohibited from having my character do what he would naturally have done in such a situation given his alignment and ideals. I've never really been a fan of scripted RP, but I do like to keep an open line of communication with the people with whom I'm interacting, and always welcome to outside intervention so long as it is reasonably executed.

 

I hope this clears things up a bit. I might edit my post in the 'About Me' area to reflect these opinions, or might it be a good idea to create a thread to outline what we want to see and what we do not want to see? I can see how this might closely border recruitment, but maybe when it is closer to the time to begin segmenting off such a thread would be helpful for those intending to be leaders. Just a thought!

[Verence]

I don't think anyone here is trying to stifle spontaneity. I'm sure anyone who's been RPing for a while has stories about fantastic RP sessions cropping up out of nowhere with no planning beforehand. Some of my most memorable RPs started with "I'm bored. RP in ____! Who's in?" Neither am I advocating a set-in-stone system of mechanics for handling combat or other character interactions. That stuff works great for tabletop gaming but it quickly becomes cumbersome and distracting in an MMO. What I'm saying is, not everyone who roleplays is mature. I'm not indicting anyone here, in fact thus far I've been pleasantly surprised by how well-spoken everyone has been. Just think, out of all the people you've RP'd with, has every one been cordial, polite, considerate, and willing to compromise? If you answered "yes", please tell me what server you're on so I can switch there ASAP.

 

Character conflicts will inevitably arise. This is good, healthy, and makes for great RP as long so the players don't get in the way. Everyone getting along all the time can get boring; we aren't RPing Utopia. This isn't just about combat either, this is games of Chess, pickpocketing attempts, playfully snatching hats off each other's heads, and the like. Most of the time, people are going to be cool with whatever and there won't even be any question on how to resolve things. But, sometimes there will be. What happens when the punches start flying and both players think their character should win? Usually drama. I think it'd be a pretty good idea not to have "combat rules" but "conflict resolution guidelines". Nothing hard and fast or overly structured, just some clear methods by which people can work out differences in opinion and agree to be bound by the solution thus obtained. Remember that ultimately, we're co-authoring a story. Not playing to win.

 

The chief reason this is a concern to me is because in the past, I've forced my characters to avoid conflicts they would have otherwise leapt straight into for the purely OOC reason that I knew it would be a pain to settle with those involved. In essence, I was not allowed to truly play my character due to poor conflict resolution guidelines. There's not an awful lot that can be done about it, but I'd like to see what little can be done, be done.

[Kylin]

Regarding the past: While I think everyone has forgiven past events (I've spoken with many privately to ensure as much), forgetting it is another thing. And we shouldn't forget. When I bring up past events as examples, I do so because history tends to repeat itself, even if the people involved are different. We should use our past experiences to learn and grow rather than simply discard them.

 

I think Verence put it all very well. And by the looks of it, everyone seems to agree that the RPC shouldn't wield much authority at all but should reserve a tiny bit just in case things get ugly at some point. Regarding standards/etiquette, I foresee them being more of something to fall back on rather than something to enforce. By the sounds of it, most want the RPC to be more of a resource and outlet and less of a full blown organization. I think any "rules" we do put in place will likely end up non-RP related (such as how to handle drama that encompasses the entire community).

 

I also feel I should caution everyone about using other RP coalitions to set our foundation. While it's good to look to them as models, it's ultimately imperative that we forge our own individual identity. It's sort of like comparing the US to the UK. While we have the same language and similiar cultural trends, the populations have very different needs and priorities.

 

All of this being said, the last couple pages or so of this topic have been dominated by a small handful of coalition members. This is in turn overwhelming and intimidating others from posting. I'm personally going to remove myself from this thread for at least a couple days and encourage anyone else who's been an active voice to do the same. This gives everyone else a chance to play catch up and perhaps post something of their own. The last thing we want is an inner circle of influential people forming and setting the groundwork on everything. That would be counterproductive to the entire concept of a coalition. Let's face it. As awesome as it is to reach 5 pages on a discussion, it's only been two days. I'm sure that's a LOT to take in for a lot of people

[Keir]

I also feel I should caution everyone about using other RP coalitions to set our foundation. While it's good to look to them as models' date=' it's ultimately imperative that we forge our own individual identity. It's sort of like comparing the US to the UK. While we have the same language and similar cultural trends, the populations have very different needs and priorities.[/quote']

 

I think that this is a very good point. While I appreciate learning about other coalitions and the ways that RP is set up in other games, I would rather we all create a new and unique experience in FFXIV, rather than cookie-cutter mold to something that may have had to deal with a whole separate way of gaming. We have to face the fact that the Final Fantasy online games are much, much smaller than, say, WoW, and deal with a different gaming style. Sure, we can learn plenty from other MMORPG role-play communities, but in the end, we need to make something that is our own.

 

All of this being said' date=' the last couple pages or so of this topic have been dominated by a small handful of coalition members. This is in turn overwhelming and intimidating others from posting.[/quote']

 

Another very good point. FFXIV is still a long way from a full release. We have plenty of time to ruminate on the points that have been made and brought up, and I encourage those that haven't spoken up to feel free to do so. I am in complete agreement with all of Verence's points (thank you), but look forward to hearing from others' points of view. At the moment, it seems a few of us are just chasing our tails.

[Dogberry]

The chief reason this is a concern to me is because in the past' date=' I've forced my characters to avoid conflicts they would have otherwise leapt straight into for the purely OOC reason that I knew it would be a pain to settle with those involved.[/quote']

 

"Quiet, Verence, the adults are talking."

 

Damn, that kid was cocky.

[Smiling River]

I had a wall of text outlined, but I deleted it to just make it short and sweet. I'm hung over

 

The RPC should have a bunch of suggestions from past experiences put up somewhere that's for sure. This goes along with not forgetting the past but using it to perhaps prevent some fallout. But yeah largely the event organizers should probably mention something about specific RP rules to follow at their gathering, if any.

 

The debate on how much structure/power the RPC will have:

 

I think starting off with very little is the way to go. The people who will be the maintenance crew here need jobs too, which would be to add certain rules when necessary. Starting with a clean slate in this new game and adapting as problems arise. It's easier to add regulations little by little as needed than to start with a whole bunch assuming that they will be useful. If all is well and the community runs as smooth as some people predict, then nothing will be added and everyone wins.

 

Personally I am one of those that think we will need moderate regulation in place. Using my limited knowledge of political science, a good example would be the US. Started with independent states and very weak federal government, but as history took it's course turned out that we needed stronger federal laws to make all the states, nay the Union, run better.

 

Tangents pulse from my fingertips like serpents in all directions.

[Dogberry]

Personally I am one of those that think we will need moderate regulation in place. Using my limited knowledge of political science' date=' a good example would be the US. Started with independent states and very weak federal government, but as history took it's course turned out that we needed stronger federal laws to make all the states, nay the Union, run better.[/quote']

 

That's a bad metaphor, as is the UN comparison we've been joking about. You can't make direct comparisons between real life politics and a video game. The United States gave more power to the Federal government out of many complicated socio-economic and political issues that arose along the process of nationhood over two-hundred-some-odd years. If the RPC ever has to make decisions like that then the FFXIV community at large is doing it very, very wrong. Likewise, nations aren't members of the United Nations because they want a place to role play. They're in it for diplomatic purposes that will help further their own countries interest. Should the RPC ever become an organization that is chartered with preventing a world war then I'm probably going to go play another game.

 

We are not dealing with governments here. We're here for fun. That is the only thing that is going to hold this place together. The minute people stop having fun is the minute the RPC is useless. If you're right, and the RPC needs to start moderating the RP community it will have already been too late. We'll have to have become an organization that will tell people to stop having fun because we have rules about these things, don't you know?

 

But if we're going to be nation building here, can I be Benjamin Franklin? He was awesome.

[Nanapariri]

Thanks guys for clearing that up for me. I can see really most of us have the same basic idea really.

 

Cast: If you feel I've posted too much I'll stop for awhile after this post.

 

Regarding the past: While I think everyone has forgiven past events (I've spoken with many privately to ensure as much), forgetting it is another thing. And we shouldn't forget. When I bring up past events as examples, I do so because history tends to repeat itself, even if the people involved are different. We should use our past experiences to learn and grow rather than simply discard them.

 

When you guys mention a fear its a good measure of if the fear is valid or not to see if that sort of thing has happened in a community similiar to what you want to try out. I'm just asking you guys to consider examples of things more similiar. I see a good chunk of folks who seem to think that just because FF is part of the name of this new game their experience will be exactly the same as their server on FFXI. At the most, in FFXI, I think most of us only had maybe 3 other RP Guilds at any given time that lasted any length of time and hardly had anything to do with eachother so comparing what we want to do here, which my understanding is we want more than 3 Guilds all working together, isn't that effective.

 

I'm concerened that is seems the over-all feeling of many here seem to feel that its impossible for the RPC to succeed. People will just be running around god-modding and being immature. You yourself Cast have said in more than one place that the coalition won't last a year which is a terrible mind-set to have going into a project like this.

 

I also feel I should caution everyone about using other RP coalitions to set our foundation. While it's good to look to them as models, it's ultimately imperative that we forge our own individual identity. It's sort of like comparing the US to the UK. While we have the same language and similiar cultural trends, the populations have very different needs and priorities.

 

To me comparing the FFXI community to a large coalition is like comparing apples to oranges. I have done some cross-guild things on FFXI just as it seems some of you have, but in no way do I think that a few isolated insisdences is a good measuring stick to construct a charter for a large community. Comparing a community like Starsider to what the goal of the RPC has is like comparing a mandarin orange to a florida orange. I'm just concerned that some people seem unwilling to accept anything other than their own experience in one server on one game while discrediting statements made regarding other games (SWG and WOW) that have had successful much larger communites. I'm seeing remarks to the effect that "well that group was too lenient for the people I know will be playing FFXIV since only people from FFXI will be there forming our community and they are all immature god-modders". Don't expect this since it is a different game and some people that play FFXI may not like or play it. Some people from that WOW community or Starsider could even try it so constructing a community that only FFXI Rpers would like is equally bad.

 

Starsider was a united community of upwards of 15 guilds going all at once plus some freelancers with no guild. Looking at what they've implemented that has worked, as well as that EQ group and Thraydon's experience in WOW, and seeing that a large group is able to deal with the problems that can and will happen without needing some huge list of rules proves a large and healthly RPC is possible. Everyone here seems convinced the RPC will be small or will fall apart. SWG and WOW are both very different communities but Thraydon has expressed some of the exact same expereinces I have. There are only probably 70-100 Rpers in SWG so its not a big and large group as I think you all believe and I don't know how many are in WOW. If two entirely different games have had a similiar experience then I think its safe to view those similairties as what is average for a large RP Community.

 

I'm not expecting the RPC to be just like Starsider I'm just relating information that I feel is valid for consideration. I'm also not expecting RPC to be just like FFXI. Like you said it will be its own community. Everyone should keep that in mind and not dwell on FFXI so much.

 

On fears that too much freedom gives free-reign to god-moders:

 

I'm with you on over the top things but I have RPed with people like that, and despite the weird issue (let's say blue skin) they were nice people, surprisingly mature, and I had fun. There were those people on Starsider but people were mature enough to just not RP with people who do things we don't like.

 

There might be a place here for those people, I know on Starsider there were 2 guilds that were way out there as far as the community was concerned, and they often felt the rest of us were being "elistist" but we still managed to get along. They came to the events but didn't do anything there they knew would prevent others from enjoying it.

 

Though I personally don't generally like those things if we try to make standards for a community that exclude certain characters we would be taking a bad step for creating a community with a good reputation that others want to join. Those preferences should be left to personal preferences "on a citizens type post" or rules for a private guild.

 

I did "Jedi RP" while on Starsider that had a bad name because of a few god-modders etc and canon Nazi feeling even a small group hiding wasn't time appropriate. Those people avoided us, or in many cases we were so good at hiding, had no idea we were a Lightside Guild. My point in relating this is just because some idiots try to justify using an excuse to god-mod or Mary Sue don't think the majority of people will. In my experience these people slit their own throats and leave of their own free will when they alienate everyone else by their actions so there is no need to try and keep them out.

 

I might edit my post in the 'About Me' area to reflect these opinions, or might it be a good idea to create a thread to outline what we want to see and what we do not want to see? I can see how this might closely border recruitment, but maybe when it is closer to the time to begin segmenting off such a thread would be helpful for those intending to be leaders. Just a thought!

 

I think this would be a good idea, and way to summarize what we've all talked about and the different points of view we can bring to the table for consideration.

 

I think starting off with very little is the way to go. The people who will be the maintenance crew here need jobs too, which would be to add certain rules when necessary. Starting with a clean slate in this new game and adapting as problems arise. It's easier to add regulations little by little as needed than to start with a whole bunch assuming that they will be useful. If all is well and the community runs as smooth as some people predict, then nothing will be added and everyone wins.

 

Personally I am one of those that think we will need moderate regulation in place. Using my limited knowledge of political science, a good example would be the US. Started with independent states and very weak federal government, but as history took it's course turned out that we needed stronger federal laws to make all the states, nay the Union, run better.

 

I also think this is the intelligent way to go. Making a bunch of rules because of issues that we fear might happen based on experience up front is a bit like the woman whose teenage daughter ran away from home so she chained her other two children to their beds in their rooms. I remember in the news when the woman was asked why she said she didn't want the other kids running away like the first one. Please lets not imprison the RPC folks because of a few jerks we've met in the past.

 

The whole reason for setting standards and having a body that regularly meets is so that adjustments can be made to meet the needs of the RPC going forward. Start out expecting the best and ammend the rules based on actual real happenings not feared possible future happenings. Start with some basic things and only add other things if needed.

[Smiling River]

Obviously it's not a direct comparison, in fact it was a very loose, half-serious one at best. And yes of course the bottom line is to have fun while playing a video game.

 

The core of what I said isn't in that silly comparison, in fact that's just my take on what can happen down the road. I hope for the best but prepare for the worst. In this case too my idea is to just give it a shot with loose guidelines, this coalition itself bearing no power but at least having the ability to eventually add firmer measures should they be needed.

 

Fun is relative, just like time :lol: Not everyone can just have fun together, sometimes you need a little regulation to make sure that everyone can have fun. Sure, it's more fun when you have fun your way completely, but I think everyone can give up 10-15% of fun for server-wide events just so we can all enjoy each others company. That's just my personal opinion and a hypothesis of how things might pan out.

 

For now though, def no direct regulation on behalf of RPC. We'll learn as we go along. It'd be cool if I am wrong and everyone is happy just like in that other community Tsumi mentioned before.

 

That being said, dibs on Thomas Paine.

[Dogberry]

Well, my thing is, we're not going to have any authority to do anything to anyone who disagrees with our intervention unless they're outright breaking SE's terms of service. We shouldn't even try to moderate because we don't even have a means of enforcing our own moderation beyond "well you can't play with us anymore so nyah." It makes us look a little too big for our britches.

 

And yeah, you can be Thomas Paine. Who wants to be Jefferson? We got any takers on John Adams?

[Nanapariri]

Well, my thing is, we're not going to have any authority to do anything to anyone who disagrees with our intervention unless they're outright breaking SE's terms of service. We shouldn't even try to moderate because we don't even have a means of enforcing our own moderation beyond "well you can't play with us anymore so nyah." It makes us look a little too big for our britches.

 

Ok one more post:

 

I mean the exact opposite that you do Dogberry. Think about the following questions:

 

1) Will one isolated guy pretending to be Ang from Avataar destroy the entire RP community? Cause people to leave the game? Post on Alla "I can't believe those people on Cid server tolerate that terrible behavior"? Isn't it only a minor annoyance in comaprison to rampant god-modding?

 

2) Name one large issue that is not in the TOS that will cause a massive exodus and discontent. The TOS covers major issues like harrasment in game so how can we do better in stopping harrassment in game than a GM that can suspend them?

 

3) What is the only thing the RPC would have direct control of to use as a diciplinary measure? Isn't it membership in the RPC and the Board? If we expell someone from the RPC can that stop them from harrasing members in game? If we can't suspend people from the game how isn't telling a GM that can or /blacklisting them not a valid way to control the only thing we can?

 

Basically I'm just saying only make rules you can actually enforce that actually will harm or damage a person's expereince in game. Concentrate on those things just in case rather than allowing or not allowing other RP styles. Honestly I think believing we can control or stop more than is possible to within our power than we actually can would be more "getting to big for our britches" than leaving some things for a Guild or SE to deal with.

[Dogberry]

Can I ask you what it is you think I'm advocating? I'm not being a smartass, I genuinely want to know if I come off like I'm saying we should devise ways to punish people. I'm pretty sure that whatever I've said in this thread it isn't that.

[Nanapariri]

Can I ask you what it is you think I'm advocating? I'm not being a smartass' date=' I genuinely want to know if I come off like I'm saying we should devise ways to punish people. I'm pretty sure that whatever I've said in this thread it isn't that.[/quote']

 

I was responding to this:

 

Well, my thing is, we're not going to have any authority to do anything to anyone who disagrees with our intervention unless they're outright breaking SE's terms of service.

 

This seemed to me to mean there are other punishable offences than those in the TOS that the RPC must deal with and we need to be able to punish people that disagree with us. My point was is not all disagreements are so dire we have to deal with it and we won't be able to stop people's behavior in other forums and IG if they do.

[Dogberry]

Funny how you missed this:

 

We shouldn't even try to moderate because we don't even have a means of enforcing our own moderation beyond "well you can't play with us anymore so nyah." It makes us look a little too big for our britches.

 

Edit to add:

 

and this:

 

If you're right' date=' and the RPC needs to start moderating the RP community it will have already been too late. We'll have to have become an organization that will tell people to stop having fun because we have rules about these things, don't you know?[/quote']

[Smiling River]

:idea:

 

I think you guys are both saying the same thing.

[Dogberry]

So then you can understand my confusion.

[Nanapariri]

Funny how you missed this:

 

We shouldn't even try to moderate because we don't even have a means of enforcing our own moderation beyond "well you can't play with us anymore so nyah." It makes us look a little too big for our britches.

 

Edit to add:

 

and this:

 

If you're right' date=' and the RPC needs to start moderating the RP community it will have already been too late. We'll have to have become an organization that will tell people to stop having fun because we have rules about these things, don't you know?[/quote']

 

My bad... I didn't think you were serious about that statement. Though I did address it, but evidently not clearly enough:

 

3) What is the only thing the RPC would have direct control of to use as a diciplinary measure? Isn't it membership in the RPC and the Board? If we expell someone from the RPC can that stop them from harrasing members in game? If we can't suspend people from the game how isn't telling a GM that can or /blacklisting them not a valid way to control the only thing we can?

 

We absolutely can control who uses this forum and who is a member of the community by banning them. We have control but not absolute god-like control. I mean those to be questions to think about as to what we can control as being what our focus is on.

 

You seemed to be saying we have control over nothing.

 

EDIT: Also I wasn't directly meaning your post on a couple of those just most of what I used was based on your post.

 

The Ang was because I think Kes and some other seem to feel we should limit membership with the same sort of criteria a guild would trying to make the whole community have the same RP style in effect. I'm saying why worry about small things like that.

 

The other thing I was trying to say is having a guild deal with some things and using the system SE has in place are vailid ways to deal with big issues.