Crafting, Markets and You

[Challoux Baudrier]

Okay, so the one thing I noticed (and love to death) about this game is there are no limits to what you can expand into as a crafter because there are no skill point limitations. You can master every DoL and DoH skill out there and be totally 100% self reliant. So my questions are thus:

 

1. How does a player made economy survive with this type of self relying environment?

2. Is it even worth having a shop for a particular craft?

3. Is there a market for resource sales or would it better to just vendor the stuff?

 

If your answer to #1 is something along the line of "Not everybody feels like going thru the boredom/grind of harvesting and crafting their own equipment, therefore relying on others who have the patience to do it" - my additional question would be:

 

4. What is the ratio of people who do craft to the people who don't craft to make the market worth being competitive in without feeling like you're competing against 500 other people in the same craft as you?

[Rhostel]

I'm told it takes a very, very long time to master every craft. Disiciples of the Hand are the hardest class to level, and that only gets magnitudes worse at the highest levels.

 

There's also the issue of inventory space for all the crafting ingredients and equipment you'll need. You get 200 slots on your character and 150 each on two retainers. 500 slots sounds like a lot, but when you factor all the other things you'll want to hold on to like food, potions and other sundries, +1 ingredients and the many flavours of materia, it's going to be very tight at best.

[Challoux Baudrier]

So what you're essentially saying is there is room to specialize and feel as though you have a purpose in life as a crafter.

[Aysun]

Oh yes, you could be totally self-sufficient. But!

 

It takes a crapton of work to grind 50 on every craft and gathering class. Most people are not willing to do this, some don't want to touch the crafts at all, so there will always be a market!

[Eva]

Without going into a longwinded explanation about how I make my gil, I will say that I do pretty well for myself with my primary source of income being weaving and bazaaring my garments. You'll find that a lot of people sell the "easy" items that they grind on and the market gets flooded with these specific items but not the ones that require more materials.

 

There is also very much a market for lower-level items. I often hear people lamenting that there's no [insert weapon name here] on the market wards that they want to bridge a gap in leveling some DoW/DoM job. I don't really make weaponry, but I've considered leveling smithing/carpentry and checking the wards to see what weapons had none available just to put a couple up on AH.

 

HQing lower level stuff doesn't net a whole lot of profit though, because they don't sell very well. If I manage to HQ something lower-level I'll usually only try and sell it for just a bit above the low-end going rate of the corresponding NQ item. This is usually gear that people don't plan on keeping for a very long time so HQ doesn't matter as much. It's just a means to an end. HQing higher level gear is tougher (helps to have multiple DoH jobs at 50 but that can be very time-intensive as Aysun remarked), but usually significantly more profitable, but then you have to bear in mind there are probably a dozen crafters trying to do the same thing. I try to go through the wards to see what's unavailable. I pay attention to what people in my LS want and try to make extras to bazaar. If they do well, I keep it going.

 

Also if you convert your own materia, it's sometimes worthwhile to harvest/buy the catalyst and affix materia to lower level items for a little extra profit. I would be willing to spend a few thousand extra for some gear with a stat boost if it would help me achieve my ends faster, whether it be cutting through beastmen to level a particular class, or land more hits on a DoL job.

 

The key, I've found, is taking the time to explore what's selling for how much and what's in demand, and then meeting that demand until someone else catches on, and then moving on to another synth when undercutting becomes an exercise in shooting oneself in the foot.

 

TL;DR:

There is always a niche. Find it. And variety helps too. You'll do better selling 10 different items than trying to move 10 of the same item.

[Challoux Baudrier]

Thank you, Eva, for that very extensive reply. That answered just about every question I had except two. Where are the auction houses and what method is used to construct a pricing scheme for your wares?

[Eva]

Market Wards are located in each of the three city-states. In Ul'dah (clearly the most popular) they're located just west of the aetherial crystal 'homepoint'. There is no Auction House in the traditional sense, but the wards serve in a similar (albeit slightly more frustrating at times) capacity.

 

As for price setting, I usually try to see where others are setting their prices at for similar items. If it's something where the market is clearly flooded, I'll either wait, or I'll undercut the lowest one. This usually results in being undercut again, in turn, and I try to avoid that so I'll sit on the item rather than wait. My goal is to move the product as quickly as possible so that I can replace it with more. Turnaround time is pretty consistent. I routinely check my retainers once a day and swap items around depending on what's happening with those items on that given day. I've gotten a pretty rigid system going and try to make the most of my 20 retainer slots. I'm happy if I can empty out 10-15 in a day's time so that I can restock and sell more.

 

For items that are not up for sale, I look to see if there are any comparable items. For instance, for a level 23 garment, I might check a similar garment at level 23, or whatever the next garment up is. Unless materials cost significantly more for some reason, I try to keep it reasonable, otherwise I can't expect people would buy it if they can just sit and wait for the next one in 3 levels. It helps to kind of think like a consumer, if that makes any sense. Occasionally some will spend frivolously, but that's usually not the case. The best thing you can ask yourself is, "If I was a would I spend this much gil for this item?" And think about why it might be skipped over for something else, if there are none other available.

 

I'm sorry for another longwinded response. I hope this helps, though.

[Challoux Baudrier]

Would it not be easier just to add a percentage markup on an item over what you could sell it to a vendor for? If the price becomes so undercut on the market, at some point in time I would be asking myself if I'd be making more selling it to an NPC than taking a profit cut on the market.

[Eva]

Sometimes it's that simple, but not usually. If a woolen robe sells for 10k to NPC (I don't know what a woolen robe NPC's for offhand, so let's just assume this is accurate for the sake of simplicity), than you could mark it up and sell it at 13k. And you would be making more gil back than if you NPC'd. But if you're buying your materials (or the materials to make your materials) you usually want to aim for something that will exceed the cost of that. Factoring in the cost of woolen yarn and the other stuff, and shards/crystals, you might find yourself spending 15 or 20k (or more!) just in materials to make the thing, so you would certainly want to sell it for at least that much, otherwise you are just breaking even or losing gil (which a lot of folks will do while spam-skilling certain items).

 

You might find that two people have woolen robes bazaared at 50k and they're selling fairly regularly. You kind of want to maximize that profit range. You want to benefit as much from your work as you possibly can, I would imagine. You might also find that dyeing it purple makes for a robe that sells for 70k, but there could be eight up for sale, so you might have a harder time selling that. In an instance like this I might make two undyed robes and one purple one and try selling the undyed ones for 50k (if they're moving quickly, 45k otherwise) and the single purple one for 60k - and just hope it doesn't get undercut again. I kind of play this by ear. It definitely helps to look at the sale history of an item you're considering making. And keep an eye on the prices of the materials you'd need in order to make that. Things fluctuate. There are two or three items I'm constantly watching and will sometimes buy up when I know it's low and there's a massive surplus, and then sell back when it's high and in demand without ever using it for synthesis. I did this a lot in FFXI too. It just requires some patience usually, and an element of luck. What I don't do - nor condone - is buying out an entire supply of an item just to jack up the price. I've known some people that do this but feel it's underhanded and I think they were warning/banning people in FFXI for it for awhile. At a certain point, anyway, it becomes more realistic to farm certain items rather than buy them. I try to farm some of my own rather than just synthing all of the time. Especially when things on my retainers aren't selling very quickly.

 

For raw items farmed up, ores and food ingredients and such, it's usually beneficial to check out the NPC price. There are times where it makes a great deal more sense to just NPC an item like that, but it always pays to check to see what folks are buying it for, first. It sometimes surprises me how much more certain ingredients and such sell for than I would have guessed.

 

Yay economics! :cheer:

[Challoux Baudrier]

I see myself becoming a wholesaler in this situation. I believe in maximizing profit, but not to such an extent that it's pretty obvious the price was jacked up for the purposes of satisfying the need for greed. But whatever.. As long as my items sell, I don't really care if someone takes my stuff and stocks it for resale.

[Eva]

In that case I would take the fixed amount of the cost of all items for whatever you're making, add it up, and then add whatever markup you feel is appropriate. In some instances you'd probably still be able to get a significant amount more for your effort, but if you're content with only a modest markup, you'll probably be moving your items very quickly, so long as there is a demand for them. This might be good if you're able to check your retainers multiple times a day. It all depends on your play style, I suppose.

 

I was also under the impression you were looking for ways to maximize your return on investment. I try not to mark things up for 'greed', but rather I try to target what I think people would be willing to pay. I like to assume everyone has a friend with every craft leveled. What's it worth for that person not to have to buy the materials and then pester their buddy to perform the synth? How much would I want to be compensated if some stranger wanted me to pull myself away from RP or w/e to synth something for them? I tend to think in terms like that.

[Challoux Baudrier]

I think I have something pretty well figured out in terms of pricing. I have to wonder, though, because I haven't verified this myself - Does Osgar in the Stateroom of Gridania really sell maple logs for 9,000 gil per?