Cross-Guild Organizations?

[Smiling River]

:idea:

 

What do you all think of organizations such as knighthood, vigilante, mercenary, merchants, thieves, assassins etc. being large entities that any RPer on the server can join? Do you think that individual guild rules would get in the way of this?

 

On Sylph there were times these type of groups drove RP, gave people something to chat about, helped develop LS-wide plots as well as individual stories. However as the RP population rose and fell, these organizations died out. They had a flaw, they were completely player run and LS-specific (most of the time). Meaning if LeaderRogue doesn't want to be the leader anymore or leaves the game, the whole organization usually collapsed. Of course being grounded to a single LS meant that if membership goes down organizations became weak and eventually empty.

 

Later some RP'ers started creating organizations that came from an external source. One person basically had to come up with an interesting concept and history, put it out there, and their own character would join as a member along with whoever else was interested. This way the organizations were always there and were to some degree independent of the creator.

 

To my knowledge we've never tried server-wide organizations on Sylph (correct me if I am wrong). Now that all RP'ers are going to be on one server, meaning a much larger population than we're all used to, I feel like this concept could thrive. I'd like to hear my friends from Sylph opinions on this, but I'm also interested if players from other servers had similar organizations and how they worked.

 

What do you think, can large server-wide organizations work?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to reading your responses.

[ramdragn]

I think it might. Back in Alexander we had a mercenary group with random OP Missions. It did kept the RP going and gave some good RPs into the main Linkshell (People gossiping about mercenaries and a specific galka wanting to destroy them)

 

I'm up for it . . .

[Eva]

It would be ideal if FF14 allowed for a more multidimensional style of 'guild communication'. I waited a long time in FF11 for what would never come - the opportunity to wear two linkpearls simultaneously and direct chat to either (or maybe sometimes rarely both). Something like this would make cross-guild interplay a bit more complex (double edged sword).

 

At any rate, the idea is good in theory but if there are separate 'pearls' as in FFXI, it pulls members off from the greater RP that's going on and makes it more frustrating for everyone, I think.

 

If you just mean a collection of characters from the various guilds with similar hobbies or alignments that may get together to trade wares, rain beastmen strongholds, or cause mischief together - without "switching pearls" so to speak, I think it's a very good idea. But we're not really sure what sort of communication channels we'll have available to us. We'll probably have to wait and see.

 

The thought of a mercantile guild would probably be of some interest to Kes, though. And possibly a more covert organization such as the Tenshodo. So yes, I'm definitely interested in this!

[Smiling River]

Assuming that you can only be part of one group at a time (one "LS"), I would not suggest creating an organization-specific guild but rather having a section on here to communicate, plan events and stories server-wide. For example someone could create a rogue type group that has already been present in the world and people can join it if they like it and it fits the characters. Then it's just up to the players to figure out what they want to do with it. Also there could be more than one knighthood (for example), with slight variations and different types of characters. Heck the leaders or command structure of these 'big' organizations could be made up NPCs, as long as they are kept constant, and used for RP. Just a train of thought...

[Nanapariri]

Hmm..

 

While I've never experience something like this I'll give what I have seen and some thoughts.

 

SWG- Starsider had a separate Rebel and Imperial board in addition to the main one, and they did use them to do some Imperial Events or Rebel Events, also they did on occasion make "factional" type events of criminals vs Imperials or rebels vs Imperials. Also they attempted to get bounty hunters bounties to chase on a limited basis. They never were organized or kept RP of this king going for long.

 

Seeing as your expereince saw ebbs etc I'd say if this was part of RPC struture and a way for the RPC itself to put on events for its members maybe it could work. If these groups were run by the RPC, if someone left, they would elect or choose someone to take their place.

 

If this was done I'd say make them Discipline Based Groups. That way guilds of several types could interact under that banner. Rivalries and alliances between disciplines could be controlled also so as to not get out of hand.

 

Just an idea or two, I'm not sure what else I could add.

[Keir]

As it stands, The Lost Boys (new name pending), are poised to enter the game as a secret society similar to the Skull and Bones or Freemasons. Their name will be known, but their purpose, and their secrets, and some of their activities, will be held close to the group's heart. It will possibly be very ritualistic, and while we intend to participate in some cross-guild events, this group will be more closeted than perhaps some of the others.

[Augustine]

I am of course for this and with the large amount of RP'ers that will be joining the server, I am betting that we all won't be on the same shell anyway which in tell will not make a difference in it effecting a large Linkshell's numbers.

 

I am from Sylph and was the leader of probably one of the more well known groups, The Bloodline Legion. This group formed after SylvestraTavern split and the WarlordsGuild (which I was leader of as Ariciont), took what members that was in my guild to create the Bloodline Legion. Now when it was created, I was no longer part of a LS, so I and a couple of others formed this to do some missions to gain power for San'Doria. We grew to be a tightnit group that RP'ed then when I was welcomed into Crystalline with open arms I brought the groups RP over there, even though most members were not looking to RP with such a large RP group as Crystalline and wanted to keep the Bloodline Legion to its close nit members... I think over all it was about 9 true members. Now, when I needed them for RP, they would participate in events with Crystalline which made them very well know because at that time there was not another guild at that time that worked together like we did. During events we would wear our yellow Bloodline Legion Pearl and communicate OOC on the pearl to plan what we would do duing this event to be more effective. All in all, I think we had a great group.

 

Now to truth... when I stopped playing for a while, the Bloodline Legion died off, to go with what I believe Mason was saying... but isn't that realistic in most groups like that. If the leader fails and there isn't a second in command strong enough to lead, the group usually fades away. The Bloodline Legion was no different. My second in command was Rathium, who did lead the group to do great things but when he fell off, the group truely died.

 

Overall, I am all for it because in truth, when I was recruited and was told that I could become an assassin, or warlord, it peaked my interest in roleplaying, so as my history will tell, I am all for it. Now will be character will be joining such a group or create one, not really sure, it just depends on what happens with all this. There is my 2 cents.

[Kylin]

It -could- happen. Most guilds are going to try to appeal to a large audience though. Limiting one's group to "knights only" may make that a difficult task. If this was going to happen, the organization probably wouldn't be turned into an actual linkshell/guild. Organizations could help foster RP between groups but the setup of it all would be sort of tricky. It may be difficult to get enough people on board for a particular organization and then even harder to keep them an active part of it. The leader of such organizations would likely have to frequently create some missions or something for the group. For instance, perhaps a group of knights come together as a faction of Limsa-Lominsa's Knights of the Barricuda. The leader of this faction would have to keep up with regular events such as gate guard duty, hunting/training trips, tracking down criminals, etc. Like I said, it could work. It's just a matter of organizing it and keeping it going without creating an entirely separate linkshell/guild for it. And if a separate shell/guild was created, it should only be used for the organization's events as to not frequently take away members from the main RP guilds.

[Eva]

Another perspective I had on this earlier while driving home from work and have since refined a bit.

 

My own character is going to be a merchant of some type. I doubt she will have any serious ties to any of the major "guilds" that come about, at least not right away. I would hope to be able to traverse between groups, peddling her wares and making smalltalk for awhile before picking up and moving on to the next guild, almost like a traveling merchant (only the traveling is done upon a different plane of existence).

 

I'm not resolved I'm going to take this route yet - or perhaps just on certain days. But if there were a small band of merchants that could operate together in a similar fashion, that would almost be like... merchant wagons coming to your town... before moving off to other towns along their trade route. Except instead of 'town' it would be 'linkpearl' or whatever FFXIV equivalent of such is.

 

The parameters of the game might not even allow for it. Just speculating another way a guild could be done, cross-linkshell. Might be a good way to spread gossip and such too. :twisted:

[Smiling River]

I think by using "neutral" MMO terms my original post wasn't as clear. I'll switch to FFXI specific terms here just to clear things up.

 

I am not advocating for a Knight only, or thief only LS. I am also not saying that a player has to be the leader of such on faction. For example:

 

The Underground is a thief network which shares info, tips, gathers like minded people, sets them up on jobs etc. PlayerA creates this faction (provides history, HQ location, charter, etc.) but their character doesn't necessarily have to be the leader. The faction is an entity within the world... it can have many imaginary members, not just limited to one or multiple LSs. So player B and player C join this thief underground, but they might be from different LSs. Factions can have a space on RPC forums to plan events and such, so they wouldn't need any pearl of their own. Plus the underground would provide back up characters that anyone can create for fodder or their own plots (unless thefaction is naturally small for some reason, like a little Knighthood, or a street gang). Even if the player who initially outlined it goes away, or even if all the members move on, the info about it would still be posted and any interested RP'ers can join it. In essence the faction will still be alive within the world, just wont have any active players in it for the moment.

 

My idea is to turn factions (mercs, rugues, knights, etc) from mom n' pop stores into corporations.

 

EDIT: Optionally of course. Some factions may want to be LS specific, or even an LS on their own like Kier mentioned. That's fine.

[Verence]

Seems a fine idea to me so long as nobody tries to make it OFFICIAL or worm it around to put a corner on game lore or history that might 'lock out' other people. ("That mysterious fire in Whatsit City in the Year of the Badger that's mentioned in the game intro? Totally our guys!" sort of thing.) Sounds like a fun way to add depth, character ties, and background provided nobody tries to make it any more than a 100% in-character association tool. It'd be a good vehicle to get plots going, or to bring more people into a story in progress as well as give characters common grounds and interests. Though my character concept is loose at present, I could totally see him being part of some sort of cartographer's or explorer's guild.

[Tyriont]

It's a good way to introduce character conflict as well, as long as it's kept loose. For example, Tyriont is a pirate. Somewhat honorable as pirate goes, but he lies, cheats and steals. Therefore, while he would get along just fine with most members of a Theive's guild, a Knight's guild would likely be out for his head. We just have to watch out for issues if two RP groups have conflicting policies or styles that would cripple this type of thing and anyone setting up this type of thing would need to figure out how to handle that.

[Eva]

As long as it doesn't encroach upon game lore (as Verence pointed out), I am somewhat cautiously in agreement with it.

 

Making people paranoid that assassins are on every streetcorner and rooftop - good RP. Making it such that they really are - seems a little shoddy, possibly hedging on deus ex machina, depending on how such a thing is used.

 

I hate to say it, but this is probably going to wind up being one of those guild-specific things - or at least how these groups are perceived may be. Some guilds may be unwilling to acknowledge a certain faction if it goes against their policies.

[Verence]

I hate to say it' date=' but this is probably going to wind up being one of those guild-specific things - or at least how these groups are perceived may be. Some guilds may be unwilling to acknowledge a certain faction if it goes against their policies.[/quote']

Which seems fine to me. After all, the RPC is, if I'm not mistaken, in the business of creating opportunities for interaction, not setting down restrictions. If some guilds choose not to acknowledge these groups, they're not required to. Provided they keep low key and are careful not to overstep their bounds, I can't really see anyone finding them objectionable. I say we give it a try and if the whole thing turns into a mess, scrap it. If it doesn't, one more way of making in-game RP interesting and inclusive.

[Smiling River]

Making people paranoid that assassins are on every streetcorner and rooftop - good RP. Making it such that they really are - seems a little shoddy, possibly hedging on deus ex machina, depending on how such a thing is used.

I agree with you that assassins on every street corner is over the top. Even though one may create a server-wide organization, based on thieves for example, and create imaginary NPCs doesn't mean that there should be hundreds of them. Let's keep it real folks.

 

LS based Factions are cool, but their scope is very small. For example an LS has 40 members in it, 15 of those are Knights. Now, what power would these Knights have outside the LS itself? (I am assuming that characters aren't solely interested in just their group but the world around them). 15 is more of a street gang with no real power, thus making the idea of this Knighthood slightly invalid. Perhaps they can patrol the streets of some shady district, or guard one caravan... but even those would literally take the whole force of the hypothetical 15 person Knighthood to do. In my experience it was hard to keep these factions stable in XI. Only at the very begging of RP on Sylph, when there was one RPLS, were player-based factions really a force to reckon with. This was because there were a lot of RP'ers under one LS, and the leader literally played the head of almost every faction himself , so even the success of that is somewhat artificial. Since then I've seen problems with membership decline which led to Factions having no real power, or absence of leadership in which case the faction likely fall apart.

 

However I do love the idea of factions/organizations and what they can potentially accomplish in terms of RP when they are actually working. This idea of external factions/organizations/agencies does potentially remove many flaws I mentioned above. FFXI had a divided RP'ing community which made this idea very limited. Now however I am very excited to see as all under one roof, and perhaps it can work.

 

I'm planning to start one based on assassins/killers/mercs who are willing to do anything for the coin. The leader and the organization itself will be heavily tied to both my character's history and main plot line. By opening it up for the public (after all it will be rather public once some killings begin) I figure might as well make it accessible to whoever wants to RP as part of it, or against it, or somehow effected by it, etc. It'd definitely be a small band of 15 or so NPCs at first, so... no assassin on every corner hehe. I'll stop here before I get ahead of myself. Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

[Eva]

Only at the very begging of RP on Sylph' date=' when there was one RPLS, were player-based factions really a force to reckon with. This was because there were a lot of RP'ers under one LS, and the leader literally played the head of almost every faction himself , so even the success of that is somewhat artificial. Since then I've seen problems with membership decline which led to Factions having no real power, or absence of leadership in which case the faction likely fall apart.[/quote']

Sylvestra was cool, but I think it was a mistake to have had each guild wear a separate linkpearl. It segmented the members too much and I think such a thing would only have worked if one could wear both their 'guild' pearl as well as the overall LS pearl at the same time (which would be a swell idea for FFXIV to implement, but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part).

 

After that, the big issue with guilds was lack of interest. Everyone usually wants to be near the top rung of the ladder, and joining a guild seldom allows for this, at least not right away. Scant memberships led to frustrated leaders led to the creation of NPC 'underlings' in a lot of instances. Squires in the knighthood and pirate crews and such.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with this though, with a much larger pool of RPers.

[Eltharian]

I like the idea.

 

One way I'd like to see this implemented is if in FFXIV, there are establishments similar to places like The Lion Springs Tavern of FFXI, I think it would be nice to have an organization where players can get together and hang out in such places to do things like meeting and getting to know one another better.

 

For example, this picture explains what I mean:

 

I think these places would be great hubs for people to tell their stories to others and such. I plan for my character to be a bit of a drinker, so he'll be sitting in the taverns quite often, chatting it up.

 

It seems to me that there are going to be such places in FFXIV from some of the pictures I have seen, maybe not, we still have to wait and see but it makes me excited to think about.

[Keir]

Actually, taking that idea one step further, to have someone innovate a particular establishment, then create a linkshell (or whatever they end up using) simply as visitors to that particular establishment. You put the linkpearl on when you walk in the room and then interact on the shell as long as you are there. They could run their business just like any other, hosting karaoke, bards, minstrels, or simply allow people to chatter about, like we used to do in the old days, in the Red Dragon Inn on AOL Chat.

[Nanapariri]

I'm planning to start one based on assassins/killers/mercs who are willing to do anything for the coin. The leader and the organization itself will be heavily tied to both my character's history and main plot line. By opening it up for the public (after all it will be rather public once some killings begin) I figure might as well make it accessible to whoever wants to RP as part of it' date=' or against it, or somehow effected by it, etc. It'd definitely be a small band of 15 or so NPCs at first, so... no assassin on every corner hehe. I'll stop here before I get ahead of myself. Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated.[/quote']

 

Lol. Bloodthirst killers, thieves and mercenaries are fun to play. My character Tsumi started out 100% badass mercenary babe. If I rolled another character like her though I'd want to find a different way to play it since I've pretty much done every angle I can with her.

 

Same with my COR character, lots of fun with a free-spirt, that's conned, theived, cheated and stolen all of her life and is pretty neutral about all kinds of villiany.

 

What might be fun recreating a similiar character to Nikkita, my serial killer BLM, it was fun being evil with absolutely no redeeming qualities. lol.

[Nanapariri]

Sylvestra was cool, but I think it was a mistake to have had each guild wear a separate linkpearl. It segmented the members too much and I think such a thing would only have worked if one could wear both their 'guild' pearl as well as the overall LS pearl at the same time (which would be a swell idea for FFXIV to implement, but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part).

 

After that, the big issue with guilds was lack of interest. Everyone usually wants to be near the top rung of the ladder, and joining a guild seldom allows for this, at least not right away. Scant memberships led to frustrated leaders led to the creation of NPC 'underlings' in a lot of instances. Squires in the knighthood and pirate crews and such.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with this though, with a much larger pool of RPers.

 

When I was on Starsider I was in a guild called House Blue Lotus that was sort of that idea. We hosted a social open to all on Friday nights which was very popular while HBL's leaders were around. When a lot of us stopped playing it stopped.

 

Maybe I should try some themed RP night like that like I do for Sfant Umbra in some kind of organization. lol

[Smiling River]

Actually, taking that idea one step further, to have someone innovate a particular establishment, then create a linkshell (or whatever they end up using) simply as visitors to that particular establishment. You put the linkpearl on when you walk in the room and then interact on the shell as long as you are there. They could run their business just like any other, hosting karaoke, bards, minstrels, or simply allow people to chatter about, like we used to do in the old days, in the Red Dragon Inn on AOL Chat.

Innovative establishments... interesting idea, except I don't see the need for LS use for this. Especially since everyone seems to be concerned over taking people away from their main LS for any kind of smaller RP sessions. What you described seems to be possible over /say

[Nanapariri]

HBL RP nights and my LSes RP Night which is open to friends not in our LS are both done in say.

 

Like Mason says the location serves as the draw to come and RP.

 

I agree with KS too many linkpearls would cause problems.

[Verence]

I'm probably just fantasizing for even HOPING for something like this, but Age of Anarchy's roleplaying community had a brilliant solution. Chatbots were 100% allowed in that game so long as ALL they did was relay text, so the leader of the largest RP organization set up a number of chatbots on free accounts whose sole purpose was to monitor their organization (linkshell/guild equivalent) channel and relay it to all the other affiliated RP orgs. Each org had their own chatbot and would preface what they relayed with an ID tag saying which org it came from, if not their own. Via specific prefaces, you could talk to only your own org, or to every org on the network. It was fantastic and worked great since each organization in our faction was, ICly, a different bureau or department of a megacorporation. There were also chatrooms that were independant of party status or zone. Anyone from anywhere could hop in if they knew the room's name, if it wasn't password protected. So, there was an open access roleplayer's comm channel that nearly always had someone at least lurking.

 

It's way too much to hope for and would be difficult to explain in a "low tech" fantasy setting, but man... I miss having such easy, wide-ranging access to RPers at my fingertips.

 

Oh, was I supposed to say something practical? I am so not internet savvy, but how about this: Some form of organization-specific IM chatroom / IRC channel / etc that persists out-of-game and is open access to anyone who is a member ICly. We could have the Rogue's Guild IRC channel, the Knight Protectors AIM chatroom, the Merchant Symposium Skype chat, the College of Magical Studies Ventrilo server, etcetera. I recognize this isn't universally practical as not all of us will have access to a PC while we're playing, but it is something to consider. In addition to that, we could always have an IC Organizations section of this forum, where each organization can maintain its own sub-forum in a nice, non-LS specific centralized locale.

[Smiling River]

In addition to that, we could always have an IC Organizations section of this forum, where each organization can maintain its own sub-forum in a nice, non-LS specific centralized locale.

Yep, that's pretty much what I've proposed to resolve the issue of communication w/o adding an organization specific LS. Your other suggestions sound good too, I can see how a chatroom might be useful in planning certain things or even real-time strategy/coordination.

[Eltharian]

In addition to that, we could always have an IC Organizations section of this forum, where each organization can maintain its own sub-forum in a nice, non-LS specific centralized locale.

 

I agree as well, it would be better than having a LS for every organization that you are involved with in my opinion.