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Observational Question(s)


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Just reviewing, but going back to the 5th letter:

 

Q: NPCs in Ul'dah have moved, but has the city itself changed?

If you take a close look at the End of an Era trailer, you'll see that Ul'dah wasn't actually hit by Bahamut's megaflare attack. Alot of work went into the design of that attack and the points where it would strike, and we purposely spared Ul'dah in the video.

As those who participated in the alpha test discovered, a lot of changes have been made to Gridania, and although it's yet to be released, this applies to Limsa Lominsa as well. Ul'dah, however, has undergone surprisingly few changes. We're not in phase 3 yet so the area looks a little empty, but we'll be adding plenty of NPCs and quests.

Also, there were not that many NPCs to be placed. From that base, we have been adding addition NPCs, including ones that give quests. Despite this, the feel of Ul’dah in A Realm Reborn will be quite different from that of 1.0. Additionally, the Gate of Nald, which was originally sealed off, will be opened.

 

 

I've looked at the video a few times, but I can not see where Bahamut supposedly "missed" Ul'dah. I only remember seeing some debris from Dalamund falling and (near) hitting the side of it. 

 

This makes me wonder, because I have my "future" character a citizen of Ul'dah. Would it be even correct to say that this character had witnessed this event, but didn't actually participate in it? (wasn't in the game for 1.0) As I am attempting to write out his history.

 

I have my character that was born in 1555 of the Sixth Astral Era, which at the start of ARR, would make him currently twenty-two years of age. (By what the Wiki says, and my calculations.)

Also from what the wiki says, is that Dalamund fell 1572, which would make him seventeen. 

 

On another note, with the male Miqo'te being introduced, I wonder how this would be placed into lore, as once there were really only female Miqo'te running around. I'm just wondering how the sudden influx of males would have come about and if that's even plausible due to the "low" birthrate of male Miqo'te. 

 

Could there have been another migration from where the Miqo'te originally had resided? 

Did perhaps the original males "hidden" away decide to one day just go out and explore, and defy their roles within Miqo'te society and culture?

Or maybe at some point, fate decided to say, "Hey, baby boom of Male Miqo'te" at some point in time? (but this could be irrelevant due to: )

 

"Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race."

(My character would be a male Keeper of the Moon by the way.)

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These are good questions that I don't have the answer for but I'm sort of wondering the same thing. I've been wondering about the Male Miqo'te thing for a while (though honestly, I'm not playing one as of yet so I have to admit I don't really care.) and I've been thinking the Ul'dah thing over.

 

My character is from Ul'dah, and disappeared when Dalamud fell. It was easy for him to run away because of the chaos. I never expected that Ul'dah itself was being destroyed, but I always assumed the danger was close and real enough so that there would be hysteria in the streets and make it easy for him to slip out of town unnoticed. If someone could clear up the exact impact the event had on Ul'dah, it would really help me get my story straight.

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I've looked at the video a few times, but I can not see where Bahamut supposedly "missed" Ul'dah. I only remember seeing some debris from Dalamund falling and (near) hitting the side of it.

 

I think it's more hinted at than specifically shown. Bahamut is only shown attacking Limsa, so you could reasonably infer that Ul'dah and Gridania aren't hit in the video. He doesn't say anything about Gridania though.

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The point in the trailer:

 

They are talking about at 3:15. It shows the initial "burst" from Bahamut's freedom striking "behind" Ul'dah. The city itself was not struck, but Thanalan probably got hit depending on the perspective.

 

I would assume that if your character was in Ul'dah at the time of this that they would definitely have seen it happened.

 

You're correct: at the start of ARR, it will be 1577. Dalamud fell in 1572. If your character was born in 1555 (assuming January), then they will be 17 when Dalamud fell, and 22 at the start of ARR. In January 2014, most (if not all) RPers will be playing in the year 1578, even though time in ARR will be static to NPCs.

 

I do not know if SE has decided to give a reason as to why the male Miqo'te are suddenly coming out of hiding and becoming adventurers when they haven't been before. I doubt it will be something as complex as an additional migration or something. The Miqo'te we have in Eorzea are descendents of that initial migration. If anything they might just say they were motivated to be more open due to the attack. I find it highly likely that they'll say NOTHING though lol, and leave us to just assume that they were always around in these low numbers.

 

The surge in male Miqo'te in the RP community, however, will likely never be brought up ("Sure are a lot of male miqos around these days" is not something I think I'll hear IC), much like the fact that there are a crapton more female Miqo'te in the community than what is "normal" for distribution of the races in Eorzea according to SE is generally ignored.

 

Basically, don't think so much on it. Just play your character and trust that others aren't going to nitpick over these sorts of little details because they just bring up more questions than answers (and questions that remain unanswered by SE). They'll nitpick over stuff that goes against what we DO know, not what we don't. :)

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Thank you for clearing some of this up.

 

As for the miqo'te situation, its more of a small curiosity, but also under the lines of evaluation and understanding. I've yet to play FFXIV, so the story line is a little more blurred without seeing the full picture in action, and allowing things to connect naturally.

 

I'm not a heavy RPer, but I've always attempted to remain close to the story as much as I can, and at least try to have a back-story that won't be seen as "carelessly thrown together." I feel the need to put some effort into the creation.

 

As deduction, I can assume he either traveled with his mother to Ul'dah or ran away from home/tribe, perhaps trying to escape the matriarch society and rules to live a life more to his favor. 

Being as the second birth son ('to), I am also debating if this relative (the first born) is alive, missing, or deceased to add another section to his story.

I am fully aware that these are all my choices, but its really nice to get some opinions and see the outside looking in.

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They are a separate race. They have distinct traits shared among the population that is not found in Seekers, and the note of them being rare is presented as follows:

 

...rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race.

 

It's referring specifically to Keeper of the Moon males. I took it as meaning that Keeper males were rare and that Seeker males had a higher birth rate - hence the competition among them for the status of Nuhn.

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They are a separate race. They have distinct traits shared among the population that is not found in Seekers

 

That's not how the term race is used in the game. In fact, it's technically not valid to use it that way even in real life. 'Race' as categorisation for peoples of different regions who have developed physical features suited to their environment dates back to a time when that was thought to indicate being of different species. In reality, all humans are the same sub-species and the differences are all minor clinal variations.

 

It follows that, given that at least some Eorzean races can crossbreed, they have to be the same genus. Chances are, they're the same species. That means Clans of a single race have to be the same sub-species, given how similar they are. They even breed true so readily that cross-Clan traits are being added to the character creator suggesting characters can have ancestors from another Clan going back generations. The difference between Clans are no greater in magnitude than the differences between some groups of real world humans.

 

Therefore, calling Clans races just doesn't hold up in any sense, and the writers of FFXIV are smart enough to know that.

 

Yes, that text was referring specifically to Keeper males. That's because it was in a larger piece talking exclusively about Keepers. It doesn't mean that 'race' isn't referring to Miqo'te as a whole, just that it's discussing a Miqo'te trait in the cultural context of Keepers. A low birth rate for males is exactly why the nuhn system is in place; few males means the opportunity for multiple female partners anyway, so powerful males try to get as many as possible. They set up the precedent that the strongest male gets all the mates, and over generations it becomes formalised. It becomes the accepted state, so that other males can decide to pursue other lifestyles instead of just fighting to become nuhn until winning or dying.

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Either way, it would present an... interesting challenge/story. I hope....

 

Originally, that quote had me a bit confused, but I had thought that the Miqo'te in general were one race, while just keepers and seekers were divided by cultural and religious outlooks, which provided an adaptation through their ways of living (i.e: markings, coloration, etc...). Perhaps maybe there was a miss interpretation of the words "race" and "clan"? Or maybe someone forgot to press the enter key and put it on its own line.

 

Either or, the idea of how they suddenly popped up is a mystery, but I can only guess a reasonable explanation, but this shouldn't have much affect on his story line at least.... unless I'm going into extreme detail, and that could be a little overkill.

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The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

 

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

 

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

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The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

 

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

 

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

 

More easily understandable, thank you.

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The obvious reason why male Miqo'te, of either Clan, are now appearing is that Eorzea has just been through a disaster that's forced a change of lifestyle.

 

I expect much of the traditional tribal territories have been overrun with monsters or laid waste by either Bahamut or Dalamud. This means the males can no longer hide away from civilisation, but must venture into it to find safety. Furthermore, many may embrace this as an opportunity to change their lot in life, to find mates in females who left behind the tribal way (or even from other races), or to simply experience new things.

 

I have little doubt that male Miqo'te NPCs will be uncommon, if not rare, let alone hostile mobs. This makes sense, as the vast majority of males would naturally become adventurers, learning the trades of the cities and looking for opportunities to find their place in an unfamiliar society.

 

That's a better explanation than any SE could conjure up, imo.


Also, while we have this question thread up, I have another question: 

 

How common are these "sentient dragons" in Ishgard? What I've read says that Ishgard's military is almost entirely made of Dragoons and they couldn't spare any to the Grand Companies because they needed them. That leads me to believe that dragons are a pretty real threat, but does it take one Dragoon to kill a dragon or is it like a month-long military excursion to battle one? And how often are they showing up to wreck everyone's day?

 

I'm working on a character to replace A'sili Abarskyf as my designated Disciple of War, and he was going to be of Ishgard origin, so if anyone could help that'd be appreciated.

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The reality or myth of race is a discussion ill suited for a message board focused on roleplaying in an MMORPG, so I'll pass on that. I do agree that the term 'race' as it's used in the common parlance is outright fictitious from a scientific point of view, however in this case I don't think Gildrein's usage of the word in the Miqo'te naming conventions post on the official lore forum is considering any scientific quantification of the term. Here, Gildrein is using the term 'race' to identify Keepers and Seekers as distinctly different cultural groups. In my earlier post I was using the word 'race' as it's commonly applied so that I would be clearly understood.

 

Refer to the link here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61150-Miqo-te-Naming-Conventions the details about males being born less are found under the 'Keeper of the Moon' header. Again, I will quote the source directly:

 

Though there are ten suffixes listed above, rarely do even the largest Keeper of the Moon families have more than two or three sons. This is not by choice. Nature merely sees to it that more females are born to this race.

 

If the intention of the word race is meant to be used here to apply to all Miqo'te and not only Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te then Gildrein is doing a very poor job of presenting it.

 

Going beyond that, if male Seekers are also as uncommonly born as male Keepers, then why would the Nuhn/Tia dynamic develop in their culture? It seems to me that in order for that competition to be necessary, Seeker males would have to be more common.

 

It's possible that I'm wrong on this, but given how it's presented and what little information we have I see no reason to believe that Seeker males are as uncommon as Keeper males unless more lore is revealed that directly contradicts what we have so far. In fact I've been waiting before posting any concrete background information about my own characters for this very reason.

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It's really simple. You could just ask the dev to clarify, really, if it bothers you that much that he put it beneath the Keeper of the Moon header. (I recommend this.)

 

The word race in XIV, as Rhostel pointed out, does not have the same meaning as it does to us IRL. Races IRL are like XIV's clan system, more than anything.

 

But this is how it works in XIV:

 

RACE: main distinguishing features

CLAN: smaller distinguishing features, difference in cultural norms

 

Ex:

RACE: Miqo'te

CLAN: Keeper of the Moon / Seeker of the Sun

 

RACE: Hyur

CLAN: Midlander / Highlander

 

RACE: Lalafell

CLAN: Plainsfolk / Dunesfolk

 

RACE: Elezen

CLAN: Duskwight / Wildwood

 

RACE: Roegadyn

CLAN: Sea Wolves / Hellsguard

 

The dev said "race," therefore it applies to both clans of the Miqo'te race. It is also supported by an NPC in 1.0 who when talking about Miqo'te said that the males were a rare sight, making it hard to study them. It makes plenty of sense too, that males would be rare in both clans, as Rhostel explained.

 

If the dev meant to say clan, and changes it to that, great, Seekers will have more. But until then or we see different explanation in ARR, it is silly to keep debating over one clan having more males than another based on the possibility of a typo, isn't it? The fact that we're going to have more males than SE's distribution of the races/clans/genders in the player character community in general still remains and needs to be accepted by RPers as just how it is. Miqo'te in general are not supposed to make up much of the population of Eorzea, but every other RPer you run into will be a Miqo'te.

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I understand your reasoning and you make a good point that's changing my understanding of it in a way, but I don't think it's reasonable to make the assumption the use of the term was a company wide, conscious decision on the part of SE's English speaking staff to use this and all other terminology a certain way. We're after all talking about one post by one community representative on a forum subsection that may or may not be of particularly high priority for SE in terms of ARR's development at the moment. There are a dozen unanswered questions on the lore forum, you could find among them a post I made asking to clarify aspects of Keeper lore that was made very shortly after the lore forum opened. That post, like many others, was left unanswered by any persons with authority. So I see no reason to inquire there again before phase 3.

 

I suppose all I can claim with any certainty is that the way they've presented this bit of lore is flawed in that it allows room for ambiguity and disagreements like this one.

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Read my post again. I explained exactly how the limited population of males fits the nuhn system developing near the end. It's only extrapolation, not stated lore, but you're only asking for a possible explanation as far as I can tell.

 

Point is, the males are fewer, not unique or even rare, just uncommon. If they were equal in number to the females, monogamy would be plausible and probably desirable for genetic diversity. With disproportionate numbers, polygamy becomes necessary for survival. Because there's no limit on the number of mates a male could have, they compete to have as many as they can. The male who can attract the most mates gets to father most of the next generation, until another male overthrows him.  This series of upheavals continues because it helps avoid close inbreeding as a necessity, and becomes a cultural tradition.

 

And again, using the word race there doesn't mean the Keepers are a race. It means the trait in question is one that applies to the entire Miqo'te race, and saying Clan, while a touch more grammatically correct, would mislead everyone into thinking it's a trait exclusive to the Keepers. Clarity of intent is more important than absolutely perfect grammar. Since the only possible way to interpret it as you have is by being a stickler for grammar, I can only suggest you loosen up a bit. :roll:

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And there we see why proper grammar is so important when it comes to official sources! I feel that you're attempting to trivialize my position on the matter by saying that it can be only be held by being a stickler for grammar, but that isn't true, if Gildrein meant to imply that infrequent male birth was consistent across both Miqo'te clans then he did so rather ineffectively, wouldn't you agree? As it stands we have the term race and how you believe it's been used consistently by SE versus the placement and phrasing of the information presented. Given the reasoning that the both of you posted I admit that there's some validity to casting doubt on my conclusion about Keeper and Seeker males. However, I still haven't seen or read anything that effectively erases all ambiguity on the subject with certainty. What was presented by Gildrein was done so poorly and your assertion that the way the term race is used by SE is as you stated extrapolation.  

 

I assure you I am quite loosened up and am very open to the idea that I'm simply wrong about this, but if you mean to badger me into accepting your position as the truth of it and that there's no validity to questioning your conclusion that all Miqo'te males are born less frequently than females, then I'll have you know that you're wasting your time because as it stands it's ambiguous until we get more from SE, and sadly we've a few weeks until phase 3 yet.

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Hi everyone! I just happen to be a beta tester and since the NDA was lifted for purposes of talking about character creation and Gridania, I'm here to answer what I can about the state of Gridania five years later (to the best of my ability... there was a lot of stuff going on).

 

To answer the question on how vast the devastation was after Bahamut's attack, Gridania is now divided into Old Gridania (an area that will be familiar to 1.0 players) and New Gridania. Unfortunately, I haven't played the original in over a year and do not remember whether there was a "New Gridania" back then, but I'm assuming there wasn't since there is no mention of such a division in the Wiki resources I am using. If the size of New Gridania is any indication of the level of devastation wrought upon the city, slightly more than half of Gridania was destroyed or in need of heavy repair. To give some perspective on the damage, New Gridania extends just north of the large, central Aetherite crystal (the homepoint, not the small ones around town) all the way to the Northernmost edge of the city. It then extends along the horizontal axis all the way from the edge of the lake on the east side of the city to the western most side of the city. If there wasn't originally a lake marking the eastern border of Gridania, I'm happy to inform you there now exists such a lake. A very pretty lake, in fact. :D

 

As for the state of affairs, the Gridanians have been working tirelessly at rebuilding their home. The Lancers Guild is up and running at the North-East edge of town along the lakeside; the amphitheater, although demolished, is being hastily rebuilt; and, among other things, the merchants have returned to sell their wares. The seed-seers haven't suffered much of a loss in terms of property damage considering their guild-house happens to be built like a plainsfolk's basement. As you can imagine, the seed-seers have much worse problems to deal with than property loss. You'll hear a lot more about that next month when the NDA gets fully lifted. :)

 

_________________

P.S. Hi, Xenedra! I sent you a PM with a link to where the partial NDA lift is described. I also double checked with the resources available to beta testers, and the partial NDA lift is described in there as well. As long as what I'm talking about is within Gridania itself and not some technical aspect of the game (graphics, bugs, etc), I'm allowed to talk about it. However, I cannot talk about the Black Shroud or anything else outside Gridania's walls. I take the NDA very seriously and if my post still makes you feel uncomfortable, feel free to delete it again. Just let me know if you do so I don't repeat anything I've said here.

 

A link to reddit stating the Partial NDA lift:

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