Will you PLEASE stop trying to arrest me.

[Erik Mynhier]

Seriously you know who you are. You only halfway read my current story and are always up my ass. Please stop, ok. Now if it happens again you're going on the Blist. I have asked you to stop. I like how you RP but the constant blind lawful good stuff needs to be dialed back. So knock it off, I am not going to be arrested and stripped of title or whatever you are doing. As I told someone tonight its faith, rp only works if we all agree. No one agrees that you are going to interrogate or arrest or have me kicked out of the Sworn. Its my PC and I'm the only one that can do that.

 

I have talked this over with many mutual friends in the past, and to you ooc about this. So get the hint. No names, you know who you are, just back off.

 

 

P.S. Why did you lock up my officer? She was being held by a sex trafficker and you lock her up because her pimp was threatened by me for threatening the Sultana in public? How does that make sense? So he make a verbal threat to the Sultana so you pay him off, arrest the victim, and threaten me? A Sworn reacting to a threat to the Sultan? What?

[Erik Mynhier]

Also, as I begin to add people to my FC, please leave them alone. Our initiation does not include a night in irons.

[Ignacius]

While I think this is a fairly reasonable way to air your grievances, I can't help but admire the blind tenacity.  It's hard to play a cop these days.

 

Still, you do kind of need evidence to do that sort of thing.  If he's interrogating and arresting people who haven't done anything wrong yet, that's a bit more than lawful good.

 

If you're an outright criminal wanted by the law and drop into a town (except for maybe Limsa) IC, well, you kind of get what you're asking for.  We had a year-long spate between my biker gang on my WoW Alliance biker gang, a criminal gang in Stormwind, and the Stormwind City Guard.  Being a criminal does put you on the fringe of society.

 

All purely IC observations, of course, if he's doing it to intentionally OOCly harass you, give me his name and I'll Blist him.

[Magellan]

But... but.... I am the LAW in Eorzea! And any who resist my attempts at arrest are godmodders, meta-gamers, and have poor hygiene!

 

Hehheh, j/k :0)

 

I've been there too. I once witnessed a player flip OOC when someone didn't want to involve themselves in an arrest attempt. They then proceeded to post a wanted poster (again, without the 'criminal's' permission) in an attempt to heckle the other player I guess.

 

Some people really don't understand that rp is a 2-way street. Its about shared story, not 'my story trumps yours'.

 

@ Ignacius: Without OOC agreement, I am never obligated to acknowledge that someone is a lawman trying to arrest me. Its not hard to play a lawman... if you ask. It is hard to play one if you constantly barge in on other people's scenes.

[Ignacius]

But... but.... I am the LAW in Eorzea! And any who resist my attempts at arrest are godmodders, meta-gamers, and have poor hygiene!

 

Hehheh, j/k :0)

 

I've been there too. I once witnessed a player flip OOC when someone didn't want to involve themselves in an arrest attempt. They then proceeded to post a wanted poster (again, without the 'criminal's' permission) in an attempt to heckle the other player I guess.

 

Some people really don't understand that rp is a 2-way street. Its about shared story, not 'my story trumps yours'.

To be fair, some people post that stuff in their (what is the version of MRP here?) about being "wanted by the law for XX gold bullion" or whatever without really considering what that means.

 

On the other half, a lot of people play cops without really considering that their power isn't universal, that they can't magically know who is who and where they are, or that being The Law™ is a relatively dangerous job where you have to play by a specific set of rules that your opponents don't.

 

Just do what I do if the law annoys you!  Find the people he loves, kidnap them, and start skinning off their tattoos and mailing them to the police!

[Magellan]

O_o

 

*backs slowly away from thread* (and by slow I mean fast!)

[Ignacius]

O_o

 

*backs slowly away from thread* (and by slow I mean fast!)

 

B...but wait!  I have rolos still in the package!  *chases*

[Dogberry]

Ignacius confirmed as Mr. Blonde.

[Ignacius]

Ignacius confirmed as Mr. Blonde.

 

All you can do is pray for a quick death.... which you ain't gonna get....

[Vash]

Ignacius confirmed as Mr. Blonde.

 

All you can do is pray for a quick death.... which you ain't gonna get....

BqihaEPq_lY

All I gotta say to that!

[Ignacius]

Ignacius confirmed as Mr. Blonde.

 

All you can do is pray for a quick death.... which you ain't gonna get....

BqihaEPq_lY

All I gotta say to that!

 

My motto!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

 

Oh yeah, and because it's mandatory...

 

[Kage]

The thread seems to have gotten a little off course, but I'll still comment on the situation Erik.

 

From what I gather of your post about arrest/interrogation, perhaps the character misunderstood what was going on or perhaps they're corrupt?

 

Of course while I do try to respect people's characters and their own 'authority' if it is constantly causing you grievances, my best opinion is that you completely stop acknowledging their 'authority'. If it cannot be worked out through RP or OOCly, blacklist may be the best solution for you and yours.

[Ignacius]

The thread seems to have gotten a little off course, but I'll still comment on the situation Erik.

 

From what I gather of your post about arrest/interrogation, perhaps the character misunderstood what was going on or perhaps they're corrupt?

 

Of course while I do try to respect people's characters and their own 'authority' if it is constantly causing you grievances, my best opinion is that you completely stop acknowledging their 'authority'. If it cannot be worked out through RP or OOCly, blacklist may be the best solution for you and yours.

 

Well, I don't know much about the situation, but I'm sort of reserving my opinion until I have more information.  I don't know an awful lot about the Balmung scene.  One of two things is happening.  If Erik is a well-known criminal, keeps dropping into a major town he's wanted in, and expecting local authorities to ignore him, that's probably on him.

 

Odds are that's not the case from what we've heard, since he's apparently harassing completely new FC members (which begs the question of how this cop knows they're in the FC by IC means) and may be violating his jurisdiction (I'm not sure there's a recognition of authority, or even extradition treaty, between the major empires).

 

Your best friend in confronting the "law" is to use the very real statement, "Not here, copper, you touch me and I'll have you arrested here."

 

But I can't make that assumption with the information I have.  All I know is that the individual nation-states are politically separated, so there is, as far as I know, no overarching authority that spans their authority.  So while someone from another city MAY come with a warrant for your arrest somewhere else, there is absolutely no reason another city-state should agree to honor it.  There's even less guarantee that a local authority would even know where you are.

 

Even the cops can't godmod.

[Kage]

Well the thing is, Erik's not even close to being a criminal. It sounds like another person playing as a Flame/Brass Blade/Paladin/Sultansworn?? is working against another Sultansworn and Flames character Erik.

 

So two cops essentially. @_@ With one apparently trying to use their own authority that so far people have respected, to start going down lines that clash horribly with others' authority.

[Ignacius]

Well the thing is, Erik's not even close to being a criminal. It sounds like another person playing as a Flame/Brass Blade/Paladin/Sultansworn?? is working against another Sultansworn and Flames character Erik.

 

So two cops essentially. @_@ With one apparently trying to use their own authority that so far people have respected, to start going down lines that clash horribly with others' authority.

 

I think it would be best to remind him that to arrest someone they have to have done something wrong.  And you have to have evidence of it.  If Erik isn't doing anything illegal, he can't arrest him.

[FreelanceWizard]

From an "art of RP" standpoint, this is another example of why it's just not a good idea to play law enforcement, nobility, Hearers, or anyone who has any societal authority over other PCs in an MMO. Regardless of the situation, the fact of the matter is that such characters don't have any real authority; they can say they're arresting me all they want, but they have no ability to enforce that. That lack of enforcement power is what leads to situations like this one. It also complicates RP, because one player is asserting authority over another without their consent. In such a situation, you have only two options: accept it, or ignore it. There's no real way to RP around it unless you accept the assertion whole cloth. This causes real problems in situations like this one, where both characters are asserting what amounts to conflicting authority.

 

On the topic at hand, I don't really see a good way out of this. If nothing else, the two characters have conflicting authority and the two players have differing opinions on the legal rights that authority provides, so the only really viable option seems for them to just ignore each other.

[Ignacius]

From an "art of RP" standpoint, this is another example of why it's just not a good idea to play law enforcement, nobility, Hearers, or anyone who has any societal authority over other PCs in an MMO. Regardless of the situation, the fact of the matter is that such characters don't have any real authority; they can say they're arresting me all they want, but they have no ability to enforce that. That lack of enforcement power is what leads to situations like this one. It also complicates RP, because one player is asserting authority over another without their consent. In such a situation, you have only two options: accept it, or ignore it. There's no real way to RP around it unless you accept the assertion whole cloth. This causes real problems in situations like this one, where both characters are asserting what amounts to conflicting authority.

 

On the topic at hand, I don't really see a good way out of this. If nothing else, the two characters have conflicting authority and the two players have differing opinions on the legal rights that authority provides, so the only really viable option seems for them to just ignore each other.

 

Seriously, though, the art of RP is generally supported by the structure of common sense.  What kind of cop starts chasing and harassing another kind of cop under the same umbrella unless one of the two is dirty.  I don't get the idea that's the case.  Generally speaking, even if they don't get along, cops have plenty to do.

 

I've played both sides of the law pretty effectively at various points.  Either we don't have all the information, or someone's playing a cop and forgetting what exactly cops do.

[Magellan]

I would like to completely second Freelance's post and dive a little deeper into it. Playing any sort of powerful or authority figure is highly problematic for several reasons, one of them being a constant evolution of 'one upmanship' in which people get caught up in whose more poweeful than who, and digital pissing matches occur. The root of the problem, as I perceive it;

 

We are all our own GM's: In tabletop RP, the 'players' have relegated control to a GM. They understand and agree the rules, and acknowledge the GM will throw any number of things at them, and settle OOC disputes along the way. The GM is crafting a story, which you are a part of.

 

This is not the case in MMO rp. In MMO rp, WE are our own personal GMs, and in complete control of our story. We have not recognized or acknowledged your authority in telling our story for us. So please do not assume a GM's role without OOC consent, ever. If you want to play a lawman, you will only ever have authority over those who have given you permission to use it.

 

Even if you are given authority, you must use it wisely. Unless someone has specifically stated they give you full control of the story, you must bear this in mind: (I have borrowed this next bit btw, so can't take credit for it!)

 

In MMO, everyone wants to be a 'hero'. They want to create engaging, exciting characters that do interesting things and perform amazing feats. Even if that feat is baking the most delicious cookie ever, its still heroic in your character's eyes, and progresses them towards where you want them to go. The best way to achieve this is through Hero vs Plot. 

 

In Hero vs. Plot, you get to control how your story develops, what growth your character undergoes, and when you win and when you lose. Its a great way to build your characters story, because Plot doesn't have feelings, and therefore doesn't care what you do. You can be an elusive pirate that never gets caught, a deadeye archer that can hit a ixal from 500 meters every time, or a vampire mi'qote who's 1000 years old. Plot doesn't care. Go ahead and slay 100 bad guys, oh mighty warrior! And while you're at it, invent the combustion engine that makes airship travel more affordable! While some claims will make your rp more or less accessible to others, plot has got your back every single time (Plot's nice like that )

 

In Hero vs. Hero, this dynamic radically changes. Because now you are no longer telling your story, but a shared story. Both sides want to be heroic. Both sides want a favorable outcome for themselves, even if its not a favorable outcome for their character. By intruding on someone's plot without their permission, you are removing their ability to control their plot, and basically stating that your plot is more important than theirs. You should never assume your authority is wanted or recognized in someone else's plot.

 

And unlike Plot, players have feelings. They get upset if you make your character look bad or foolish, or blatantly disregard their wishes. Its poor form to put your characters needs before others in a shared scene (I'm not saying characters can't be selfish ICly, that's a completely different thing).

 

Share the stage, do not upstage. Someone elses plot is every bit as important to them as yours is to you, so plan an outcome that can keep everyone happy, don't try to override their plot with your own.

[Smiling River]

Who cares, blacklist and get on with your life. That simple.

[Ignacius]

I would like to completely second Freelance's post and dive a little deeper into it. Playing any sort of powerful or authority figure is highly problematic for several reasons, one of them being a constant evolution of 'one upmanship' in which people get caught up in whose more poweeful than who, and digital pissing matches occur. The root of the problem, as I perceive it;

 

We are all our own GM's: In tabletop RP, the 'players' have relegated control to a GM. They understand and agree the rules, and acknowledge the GM will throw any number of things at them, and settle OOC disputes along the way. The GM is crafting a story, which you are a part of.

 

This is not the case in MMO rp. In MMO rp, WE are our own personal GMs, and in complete control of our story. We have not recognized or acknowledged your authority in telling our story for us. So please do not assume a GM's role without OOC consent, ever. If you want to play a lawman, you will only ever have authority over those who have given you permission to use it.

 

Even if you are given authority, you must use it wisely. Unless someone has specifically stated they give you full control of the story, you must bear this in mind: (I have borrowed this next bit btw, so can't take credit for it!)

 

In MMO, everyone wants to be a 'hero'. They want to create engaging, exciting characters that do interesting things and perform amazing feats. Even if that feat is baking the most delicious cookie ever, its still heroic in your character's eyes, and progresses them towards where you want them to go. The best way to achieve this is through Hero vs Plot. 

 

In Hero vs. Plot, you get to control how your story develops, what growth your character undergoes, and when you win and when you lose. Its a great way to build your characters story, because Plot doesn't have feelings, and therefore doesn't care what you do. You can be an elusive pirate that never gets caught, a deadeye archer that can hit a ixal from 500 meters every time, or a vampire mi'qote who's 1000 years old. Plot doesn't care. Go ahead and slay 100 bad guys, oh mighty warrior! And while you're at it, invent the combustion engine that makes airship travel more affordable! While some claims will make your rp more or less accessible to others, plot has got your back every single time (Plot's nice like that )

 

In Hero vs. Hero, this dynamic radically changes. Because now you are no longer telling your story, but a shared story. Both sides want to be heroic. Both sides want a favorable outcome for themselves, even if its not a favorable outcome for their character. By intruding on someone's plot without their permission, you are removing their ability to control their plot, and basically stating that your plot is more important than theirs. You should never assume your authority is wanted or recognized in someone else's plot.

 

And unlike Plot, players have feelings. They get upset if you make your character look bad or foolish, or blatantly disregard their wishes. Its poor form to put your characters needs before others in a shared scene (I'm not saying characters can't be selfish ICly, that's a completely different thing).

 

Share the stage, do not upstage. Someone elses plot is every bit as important to them as yours is to you, so plan an outcome that can keep everyone happy, don't try to override their plot with your own.

 

Or just don't be a hero and laugh as the police trip over each others' feet.  :angel:

[Magellan]

I was using the term 'hero' loosely to refer to protaganist :0) some of my favorite characters haven't even been slightly 'heroic'

[111]

I actually dealt with a similar issue in the past, but it went a bit further (people died). I think most people have seen it, but there was some good discussion on the issue.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=6259

[Ignacius]

I actually dealt with a similar issue in the past, but it went a bit further (people died). I think most people have seen it, but there was some good discussion on the issue.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=6259

 

Honestly?  I think the easiest solution for that particular scenario is that if you're going to play a criminal, or involve that element of crime in your story, you have GOT to play it smart.  And people who interact with you, you can feel free to say, "I want to know WTF you're doing out here, because I didn't tell anyone where I was going and you weren't following me."

 

Whatever you do, make sure you know what's going on with crime in a story.  Ignacius is a terrifying criminal; I wrote a story about how brutal he can be not long ago.  Most people wouldn't know that, though, because he's extremely careful and smart about being a criminal.  He doesn't handle his business at Hawker's Alley and he makes sure nobody that knows who he is has any reason to give him up.  Just like a criminal, you have to think ahead, think smart, and be prepared to only visit major cities under assumed names and with good disguises.

 

On the same note, people who play law enforcement can't be omniscient or omnipresent.  They can't be out on Coerthas if they're local law enforcement for Gridania; they've probably got work to do there.  If they're out traveling, they're not looking for your character.

 

I've never had a serious problem playing a cop or crook (and I play a LOT of the latter), because I keep my ducks in a row.  Playing a good criminal is all about knowing exactly how wide your footprint is and making sure you know how to lay low.  Playing a good cop is a lot easier.  You just have to know how to not godmod.

[111]

I actually dealt with a similar issue in the past, but it went a bit further (people died). I think most people have seen it, but there was some good discussion on the issue.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=6259

 

Honestly?  I think the easiest solution for that particular scenario is that if you're going to play a criminal, or involve that element of crime in your story, you have GOT to play it smart.  And people who interact with you, you can feel free to say, "I want to know WTF you're doing out here, because I didn't tell anyone where I was going and you weren't following me."

 

Whatever you do, make sure you know what's going on with crime in a story.  Ignacius is a terrifying criminal; I wrote a story about how brutal he can be not long ago.  Most people wouldn't know that, though, because he's extremely careful and smart about being a criminal.  He doesn't handle his business at Hawker's Alley and he makes sure nobody that knows who he is has any reason to give him up.  Just like a criminal, you have to think ahead, think smart, and be prepared to only visit major cities under assumed names and with good disguises.

 

On the same note, people who play law enforcement can't be omniscient or omnipresent.  They can't be out on Coerthas if they're local law enforcement for Gridania; they've probably got work to do there.  If they're out traveling, they're not looking for your character.

 

I've never had a serious problem playing a cop or crook (and I play a LOT of the latter), because I keep my ducks in a row.  Playing a good criminal is all about knowing exactly how wide your footprint is and making sure you know how to lay low.  Playing a good cop is a lot easier.  You just have to know how to not godmod.

 

lol not again.

 

edit:

ok that was a bit snarky.

To elaborate the issue in both cases is that someone who plays law enforcement tries to arrest another person who plays a law enforcement officer. Essentially saying 'I'm more law than you'. This is problematic for a number of reasons, it's saying, 'I'm the arbiter of what's law and what's not'. That's what happened in the thing I posted, and that's what happened with erik.

 

/endderail

[Ignacius]

I actually dealt with a similar issue in the past, but it went a bit further (people died). I think most people have seen it, but there was some good discussion on the issue.

 

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=6259

 

Honestly?  I think the easiest solution for that particular scenario is that if you're going to play a criminal, or involve that element of crime in your story, you have GOT to play it smart.  And people who interact with you, you can feel free to say, "I want to know WTF you're doing out here, because I didn't tell anyone where I was going and you weren't following me."

 

Whatever you do, make sure you know what's going on with crime in a story.  Ignacius is a terrifying criminal; I wrote a story about how brutal he can be not long ago.  Most people wouldn't know that, though, because he's extremely careful and smart about being a criminal.  He doesn't handle his business at Hawker's Alley and he makes sure nobody that knows who he is has any reason to give him up.  Just like a criminal, you have to think ahead, think smart, and be prepared to only visit major cities under assumed names and with good disguises.

 

On the same note, people who play law enforcement can't be omniscient or omnipresent.  They can't be out on Coerthas if they're local law enforcement for Gridania; they've probably got work to do there.  If they're out traveling, they're not looking for your character.

 

I've never had a serious problem playing a cop or crook (and I play a LOT of the latter), because I keep my ducks in a row.  Playing a good criminal is all about knowing exactly how wide your footprint is and making sure you know how to lay low.  Playing a good cop is a lot easier.  You just have to know how to not godmod.

 

lol not again.

 

edit:

ok that was a bit snarky.

To elaborate the issue in both cases is that someone who plays law enforcement tries to arrest another person who plays a law enforcement officer. Essentially saying 'I'm more law than you'. This is problematic for a number of reasons, it's saying, 'I'm the arbiter of what's law and what's not'. That's what happened in the thing I posted, and that's what happened with erik.

 

/endderail

 

To be fair, you're probably right that it's bad law enforcement procedure.  If you find out someone might be dirty, you don't arrest them on the spot.  You go to their superiors, set up surveillance, see how deep it goes.  You make sure you're not stepping onto a sting or undercover operation.  Or arresting and killing a potential witness or turncoat?

 

I mean, as a player of an active criminal, I guess I don't mind law enforcement taking more of an interest in each other than me, but it does seem like it would get stupid soon if they're not part of the same direct chain of command.  Cops are supposed to be more buddy-buddy, uniting against the dirty criminal element, and criminals are supposed to be self-defeating and competitive.

 

Maybe it's because I hang out in Limsa.  We all seem to be bordering on the criminal there....