Ignacius

*puts on admin hat* If names had been named in the initial post, or it hadn't turned into a larger (and interesting, IMO) discussion about authority in RP, I'd have locked it this morning. However, it's not uncommon for people here to post a complaint that's been made generic and for that to start a discussion offering advice and talking about the larger issues. It wasn't an easy call, but it looked initially like the thread was going in and staying in a positive direction. Of course, now that all parties are out in the open, I would like to ask the parties involved to take their dispute to PM and not have it out on this thread. You've both said your piece; there's no reason to get into a public flame war. Can I still talk about how fun it would be to play Hannibal Lector with the current clash of authority figures, Clarise?

Well it's fairly obvious Limsa isn't a lawless place, it just harbors a lot of lawless people. They're packed to the gills with guards. Ul'dah is the only place I've had a scrap in town so far. It's pretty obvious, from both the story and lore, that Limsa isn't a place where that can happen, and it has absolutely zero basis in reality. Sounds like trolling.

To be fair, I've RPed a long time, and almost universally the larger problem is always people who outright state in their information that they are known and wanted criminals, who then seem surprised that lawmen attempt to arrest them in town, having seen them in wanted posters that, at times, the criminals themselves have posted in their character information. I'm not sure why that's less of a problem in FFXIV at the moment, at least from what I've seen, but my best guess is supply and demand. Criminals are being played too slickly and there aren't enough of them around. There are a lot of cops and local authorities around, though. There just isn't enough hell being raised in towns to warrant the gigantic player police presence. That'd be hilarious if we got together and decided, as a community, that we would RP a gigantic layoff event where half the police and authority figures were downsized out of the budget. EDIT: Or we could bus in criminals from other MMOs.

And he's just a couple days from retirement.

You see I, in very simple terms am a cop like character, but I designed him to be a cop to NPCs only. And only recently has a PC come to me seeking a battle of wills. That is his idea, not mine, so it works. This arrest thing has been going on and off for months. It is also on different charges each time. Is.... HE the criminal!? *cues a hammond organ stab in g minor*

Honestly? I think the easiest solution for that particular scenario is that if you're going to play a criminal, or involve that element of crime in your story, you have GOT to play it smart. And people who interact with you, you can feel free to say, "I want to know WTF you're doing out here, because I didn't tell anyone where I was going and you weren't following me." Whatever you do, make sure you know what's going on with crime in a story. Ignacius is a terrifying criminal; I wrote a story about how brutal he can be not long ago. Most people wouldn't know that, though, because he's extremely careful and smart about being a criminal. He doesn't handle his business at Hawker's Alley and he makes sure nobody that knows who he is has any reason to give him up. Just like a criminal, you have to think ahead, think smart, and be prepared to only visit major cities under assumed names and with good disguises. On the same note, people who play law enforcement can't be omniscient or omnipresent. They can't be out on Coerthas if they're local law enforcement for Gridania; they've probably got work to do there. If they're out traveling, they're not looking for your character. I've never had a serious problem playing a cop or crook (and I play a LOT of the latter), because I keep my ducks in a row. Playing a good criminal is all about knowing exactly how wide your footprint is and making sure you know how to lay low. Playing a good cop is a lot easier. You just have to know how to not godmod. lol not again. edit: ok that was a bit snarky. To elaborate the issue in both cases is that someone who plays law enforcement tries to arrest another person who plays a law enforcement officer. Essentially saying 'I'm more law than you'. This is problematic for a number of reasons, it's saying, 'I'm the arbiter of what's law and what's not'. That's what happened in the thing I posted, and that's what happened with erik. /endderail To be fair, you're probably right that it's bad law enforcement procedure. If you find out someone might be dirty, you don't arrest them on the spot. You go to their superiors, set up surveillance, see how deep it goes. You make sure you're not stepping onto a sting or undercover operation. Or arresting and killing a potential witness or turncoat? I mean, as a player of an active criminal, I guess I don't mind law enforcement taking more of an interest in each other than me, but it does seem like it would get stupid soon if they're not part of the same direct chain of command. Cops are supposed to be more buddy-buddy, uniting against the dirty criminal element, and criminals are supposed to be self-defeating and competitive. Maybe it's because I hang out in Limsa. We all seem to be bordering on the criminal there....

Honestly? I think the easiest solution for that particular scenario is that if you're going to play a criminal, or involve that element of crime in your story, you have GOT to play it smart. And people who interact with you, you can feel free to say, "I want to know WTF you're doing out here, because I didn't tell anyone where I was going and you weren't following me." Whatever you do, make sure you know what's going on with crime in a story. Ignacius is a terrifying criminal; I wrote a story about how brutal he can be not long ago. Most people wouldn't know that, though, because he's extremely careful and smart about being a criminal. He doesn't handle his business at Hawker's Alley and he makes sure nobody that knows who he is has any reason to give him up. Just like a criminal, you have to think ahead, think smart, and be prepared to only visit major cities under assumed names and with good disguises. On the same note, people who play law enforcement can't be omniscient or omnipresent. They can't be out on Coerthas if they're local law enforcement for Gridania; they've probably got work to do there. If they're out traveling, they're not looking for your character. I've never had a serious problem playing a cop or crook (and I play a LOT of the latter), because I keep my ducks in a row. Playing a good criminal is all about knowing exactly how wide your footprint is and making sure you know how to lay low. Playing a good cop is a lot easier. You just have to know how to not godmod.

Nice. FFXIV patches are more like free expansion packs. At least they're giving us our $15/mo worth.

Or just don't be a hero and laugh as the police trip over each others' feet. :angel:

The best advice I can give in RP is to fire from the hip and roll with the punches. Carefully constructed and intricately crafted RP can be entertaining, but it can also be boring. Like the best nights out IRL, you've got to be flexible and let things happen. Don't try to force something to happen, just get in there and find yourself a dancing partner. Eventually, trust me, people will get on board or you'll get on board with someone else. The only way to ensure you won't get to RP is if you try to step in and get people in a line. The best thing about MMO RP is also the worst for control freaks; it's like herding cats. Just strap up and get ready for a wild ride. You'd be amazed where you end up. EDIT: Also, Limsa Lominsa for life! It's fun to visit other places and its not necessarily a bad thing for the place you "live" for private RP to not have many other people around to interfere. Sometimes, it's convenient to not have to shit where you eat. Go raise Hell in someone else's hometown!

Seriously, though, the art of RP is generally supported by the structure of common sense. What kind of cop starts chasing and harassing another kind of cop under the same umbrella unless one of the two is dirty. I don't get the idea that's the case. Generally speaking, even if they don't get along, cops have plenty to do. I've played both sides of the law pretty effectively at various points. Either we don't have all the information, or someone's playing a cop and forgetting what exactly cops do.

I think it would be best to remind him that to arrest someone they have to have done something wrong. And you have to have evidence of it. If Erik isn't doing anything illegal, he can't arrest him.

Well, I don't know much about the situation, but I'm sort of reserving my opinion until I have more information. I don't know an awful lot about the Balmung scene. One of two things is happening. If Erik is a well-known criminal, keeps dropping into a major town he's wanted in, and expecting local authorities to ignore him, that's probably on him. Odds are that's not the case from what we've heard, since he's apparently harassing completely new FC members (which begs the question of how this cop knows they're in the FC by IC means) and may be violating his jurisdiction (I'm not sure there's a recognition of authority, or even extradition treaty, between the major empires). Your best friend in confronting the "law" is to use the very real statement, "Not here, copper, you touch me and I'll have you arrested here." But I can't make that assumption with the information I have. All I know is that the individual nation-states are politically separated, so there is, as far as I know, no overarching authority that spans their authority. So while someone from another city MAY come with a warrant for your arrest somewhere else, there is absolutely no reason another city-state should agree to honor it. There's even less guarantee that a local authority would even know where you are. Even the cops can't godmod.

All you can do is pray for a quick death.... which you ain't gonna get.... BqihaEPq_lY All I gotta say to that! My motto! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc Oh yeah, and because it's mandatory...

All you can do is pray for a quick death.... which you ain't gonna get....

B...but wait! I have rolos still in the package! *chases*

To be fair, some people post that stuff in their (what is the version of MRP here?) about being "wanted by the law for XX gold bullion" or whatever without really considering what that means. On the other half, a lot of people play cops without really considering that their power isn't universal, that they can't magically know who is who and where they are, or that being The Law™ is a relatively dangerous job where you have to play by a specific set of rules that your opponents don't. Just do what I do if the law annoys you! Find the people he loves, kidnap them, and start skinning off their tattoos and mailing them to the police!

While I think this is a fairly reasonable way to air your grievances, I can't help but admire the blind tenacity. It's hard to play a cop these days. Still, you do kind of need evidence to do that sort of thing. If he's interrogating and arresting people who haven't done anything wrong yet, that's a bit more than lawful good. If you're an outright criminal wanted by the law and drop into a town (except for maybe Limsa) IC, well, you kind of get what you're asking for. We had a year-long spate between my biker gang on my WoW Alliance biker gang, a criminal gang in Stormwind, and the Stormwind City Guard. Being a criminal does put you on the fringe of society. All purely IC observations, of course, if he's doing it to intentionally OOCly harass you, give me his name and I'll Blist him.

Kind of sucks you're on Balmung. I'm about to get my PC put together (old motherboard is dying, so I needed to do a core upgrade about a month earlier than anticipated) so I'll be back on. I was playing every day until my computer suffered a mental breakdown. I think it'd still play it technically, but due to my issues, I can't get the launcher to launch. It's a long and complicated story. Best advice that I can give is the simplest, do what's fun. Don't make the game a job. Don't make it a social media site. Remember what it is at its core; it's a video game. If you're not having fun doing something, flip it. Try a class you didn't do before. Run around doing only FATEs for a while. Try a profession you didn't do before. Randomly scrounge up some RP in a bar. Hell, do something IRL for a night (some people do it). Just, whatever you do, don't do something that you aren't enjoying. FFXIV, unlike a lot of MMOs, gives a sort of equal measure to things that aren't your average kill-questing. Not only is there a lot to do in the game, but all of it can be treated just as importantly. I think that's unique to MMORPGs (at least any I've played). In any case, get in touch with me if you're on Gilgamesh. Good life choices and sheer blazing luck, as well as a lifetime spent online listening to people complain about their problems, has given me a bulletproof ego and put me in a pretty good universal mood (especially for someone whose favorite music genres are metal and goth). I'm pretty much impossible to piss off and like listening to people talk about things I don't know anything about.

Just in case no one's ever heard of them (him?) to know the state of modern industrial, Celldweller...

Oh, oh was THAT the biggest disappointment you've ever had. At least YOU didn't always love Conan. YOU may not have watched the original movie at least twice a year. I bet YOU haven't read all the copies of the original Conan work done by Howard! Okay, I should probably not be yelling at YOU so much in caps, it wasn't your fault that the Conan MMO fell flat on its face out of the gate. But my God, the failure. The only RP server was FFA PVP. I would turn into a demon, then my hair would be gone because of a graphical glitch. You had no idea if you were in range as an assassin to stab someone, so you got as close as you could and prayed the hit engine worked. Chat tools were a joke. The story felt like they'd tried to make World of Conan. Combat was sloppy. Some renderings were gorgeous, others half-finished. Never have I thought a game was rushed too fast through production. There's only one good point about Age of Conan, it didn't fill me with the kind of pure, unadulterated rage that the Shadowrun game did in 2007. There are no words that I can type here that would express my love of Shadowrun. The 2007 game completely ruined my hopes for a good Shadowrun video game. I heard the one they released last year was decent, but will it wash the stench of that 2007 game from my memories? I'm not sure.

To be fair, I do somewhat enjoy the story in FFXIV, it just is the kind of thing that seems to be happening to "another player". It certainly isn't happening to Orleans Ignacius, the Scions wouldn't touch him with a hundred foot pole and he doesn't seem like the kind of person who has supernatural empathy with other people. That's sort of my problem with stories in RPGs I RP in. No matter how good they are, they probably aren't about "my" character. That said, I really enjoy FFXIV gameplay as well as setting. Particularly when I finally get to throw Life Surge into a True Thrust. There just isn't any other game I've felt as awesome in throwing in your average JRPG glowy weapon attack. They at least made the animations feel like they had some bollocks about them. Also... I think I'm now spoiled. It's actually fun to craft stuff in FFXIV and to try to maximize your quality before your durability runs out. Crafting systems in other games just aren't as awesome. Also, FATE quests are the best thing ever. I've never been so happy to have to dismount and be interrupted on my long ride to wherever. FFXIV has a lot going for it.

Was extremely bummed when Nevermore split. Dane put Sanctuary back together, but Loomis' songwriting was NM's driving force and Sanctuary.. just isn't Nevermore. Blah. The new Sanctuary stuff I've heard from them, mostly live bootlegs, has been good, and Loomis's solo stuff is good, but I agree. The whole was greater than the sum of its admittedly excellent parts. You need Loomis, Dane, Williams, and Shepphard to make a band that great. Sanctuary + Jeff Loomis's solo albums aren't as great as Dead Heart In A Dead World. There just wasn't a band that sounded like Nevermore. It'd be like Finntroll or Meshuggah breaking up. They're irreplaceable because they're so idiosyncratic; there are bands that sound similar, but not the same.

Could not agree with this more. Half the reason I could not get into ffxiv's story at all was the amount of reading required. I love to read, but when you're forced to read paragraph after paragraph of mundane story and tedious questing, it just gets old. Giving npcs voice breathes life into even the most basic of quests,, and adds character, flavor, and depth. From an rper's perspective, having meaningful dialogue options (such as light and dark side) is an absolute dream, cuz its like having your own personal canon going on while you play through the game. I wish more games would focus more of their attentions on making the actual playthrough of the game fun and exciting, rather than focusing so heavily on endgame. I have to say I disagree with this, personally. I really don't mind reading quest text (then again, when you're in architecture, you read a LOT). If development resources are limited and the choices are between adding cutscenes and spoken dialogue or adding improved gameplay elements, I'd go with the latter. As an RPer, I've found that I know a good dozen or so roleplayers who write more interesting stories for RP than the actual developers. Story is tantamount to my enjoyment of a game. I know people have different 'lists' for the top things they look for in a game, and I completely respect that but personally, if I'm going to invest a hefty chunk of time in a game, it will be because the story keeps driving me forward and I want to find out more. On a whole, mmo's fall well short in spinning compelling narratives. I agree in most cases rpers come up with better stories than the devs, and that's part of the problem for me! I guess coming from a console rpg background where it was all about story, I just expect a little more from main storylines. That's probably where we're different. I played a lot of console RPGs, but my developmental roleplaying experience comes from tabletop and open forum gaming where we had to make our own stories and, often, our own game worlds. Game stories disappoint me so frequently that I thought the problem was me; I just had RPed with people who told better stories than game developers. I especially don't like when developers make me feel like I'm acting the part in someone else's movie... not naming any names capcom.... Still, a game can't have a completely crap story, I'll grant you. That was one of EVE's problems. It seems like CCP was well aware of how shit they were at storytelling and decided to outsource pretty much all the game's meaning to the player base. That doesn't work either. I will say that I'd prefer a dynamic and dangerous world with a mediocre story to a mediocre world with a dynamic and dangerous story. Mostly, it's because I can make dynamic and dangerous stories; I've been doing that since I was twelve. But I'm crap at coding and I need developers to make games for me to play.

Hey Wolf, do you do black-metal-Finnish-polka-troll-music?