Rahferu

I'm sorry you felt attacked and the like, enough to voice it on another medium, but I've got to admit that while the possibility exists that there are those who walk similar paths elsewhere in the world, utilizing Darkness, they wouldn't be coined Dark Knights and their own techniques and perhaps even weapon of choice would be wholly different. They would not be the Dark Knights of Ishgard clad in black armor and wielding outrageous greatswords. We're given a lot of room to fill in the gaps with plenty of things, however, the fact of the matter is, the Dark Knights originate from Ishgard. My earlier comment stated that it is not so far-fetched to use something from your own character's culture / their people's culture, to tie them into such a thing. I.E. Sidurgu, as he came from Othard. We have a very clear example of someone from the only other place really explored in lore - thus far - completely unknowing to the traits of the Dark Knights. Thus, those from Eorzea and Othard must have gotten their knowledge of Dark Knights from Ishgard. Perhaps there are those within Othard who utilize the Darkness, but they are not Dark Knights nor would they utilize it in the same way. The only similarity would be their usage of entropic energies fed through emotion. We're very aware of where the Dark Knights originated from: Ishgard. You're allowed to speculate. The same as everyone else is, however, you're also allowed to be criticized. Thus, here we are. I always plug something before I pawn something off that is personal thought or not inherently lore. It's what separates lore from headcanon, a problem that seems to be very clear within our community. However, I'm sorry you felt attacked. It's okay. I was originally just trying to draw a parallel between my character and some of the aspects about the dark knight, but my thought process moved from my character to "hey, what about the lore in general?" I apologize for any unrest this has caused! I just wanted some answers and I don't expect people to have all of them.

Where does it say we had people using it before the Ishgardian Dark Knights, let alone people who were found outside Ishgard did? I've done the questline, I'm pretty familiar with Ishgardian lore, but I really can't find any of it. We only know the Dark Knight order eventually got the Dark Arts, much later then the first Dark Knight. That still doesn't however state there were people outside Ishgard who had earlier access to this, or to this at all to begin with. Yes, Warrior and Dark Knight do touch upon emotions, but in a different way, but Dark Knights deal with the Dark Arts, whereas Warriors have their Inner Beast to deal with. Yes it is quite similar, but not exactly the same! I believe, if I'm correct, Warriors have a need to constantly seek out bigger threats to hone their skills for their Inner Beast, whereas for Dark Knights its purely focused on well, religious corruption of the Halonic Church (who knows what they may do come Stormblood though!) Anyhow, I'm still really interested how you came to the conclusion the Dark Arts is used by other than/before Dark Knights came to be. Would you mind sharing me this information? Because I might have missed something then. I, and others have simply told you 'Well, lore states x', but if you can find lore, and not speculation, on it what myself and others might have missed? Awesome, give it to us, I'm very much interested in learning more lore! Not speculation. I meant the term "dark arts" in a general manner--i.e., the use of taboo magic or abilities that otherwise pertain to things or motives that might be considered "dark" or "evil." NOT a reference to the actual dark knight job action/ability. (I wasn't really sure how to word that, but you probably get what I mean. And people using general dark arts of some effect did NOT start in Ishgard. There were people using questionable/evil magic from waaay early on...like the Ascians, for example. I would classify a good deal of their methods and magic as "dark arts" because iirc there are instances where they summon voidsent and whatnot.) I think the term is used a few times in the DRK questline and probably in other questlines too--I recall in the DRK questline too, the broad term of "dark arts" is used, and it probably isn't referencing the job ability (given the context and non-capitalized letters):

Actually, I'm pretty sure that nothing I said about that being a possibility due to the factors of injustice, political unrest and people having access to learn about dark arts prior to Ishgard was untrue. I think you're misinterpreting me here. That's NOT the same as making up lore. There is a difference between using reasoning FROM THE LORE to justify/explain why your character has a tie to something--which you did, yourself. The lore doesn't provide direct examples of what YOUR character did, or what many other people's characters did. You make a character and try to fit the storyline somewhere within the lore boundaries. Just because something isn't 100% proven in stone doesn't mean it isn't, or couldn't be, canon--given how SE actually gives us a lot of room to wonder and fill in the blanks. You also said earlier on in this thread that we aren't sure WHERE dark knights originally came from--and I'm saying that the materials and conditions for a dark knight to function and exist in some form were very much around before Ishgard was. The "true blue" lore tells us that there was suffering, access to the dark arts, and that people were victimized by severe injustice and villainy in other places pre-ishgard. I am allowed to speculate, too--and so is everybody else, especially when I bother to research and justify my claims--which are TOTALLY based on the lore here. I'm not saying YEAH THAT WAS TOTALLY THE CASE, no questions asked....I'm saying it definitely seems likely, and here's a bunch of reasons why. This is part of RP and how people make characters. I fail to see how that's ridiculous. Furthermore, I am NOT the only one in this thread to have suggested that it could've happened in other places and at other times. I think I've actually re-iterated what other have said and provided why my character personally has a tie to the concept of dark knights too. The thing is, it is confirmed in lore, so there is no speculation left. Might just be me, but people speculate about the grey areas, or things we don't know. But I might just be wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There's confirmed lore saying that it didn't or couldn't possibly have happened anywhere else in some form, started in Ishgard, that's it, no debate? Because that's not what I'm seeing said in the rest of this thread though. You don't see Gridanian Ninjas, or Doman Dragoons. Their fighting styles, cultures, religion ect is a very specific things, bound to a history to a specific area. Dark Knight is sadly enough one of those jobs as well. Surely you can speculate on it, but it just as absurd of... for example, Buddhist Monks out of random just popping up in Medieval Europe, without said Buddhist Monks travelling there. Or Western Knights suddenly, with all their rules, believes and habits suddenly out of nowhere popping up in Australia. Lots of the jobs in FFXIV have a specific background to them, and that to me is the beauty of this setting. It isn't a mix match, it is very diverse in cultures, religion ect. All cities, races have their own background, and thus specific fighting styles were created from a certain need, religion or culture. Because why would Limsa need Dragoons for example? They really don't. It is really just the Ishgardians who needed them! Surely, there is evil and oppression everywhere, but it is explicate stated it was a counter measure against the Halonic Church corrupt religious priests. Effect and cause. Take that out of account, and you have a very wonky character in my opinion. You have no base any more for them, and merely the skillset, thus once more, in my opinion, kinda just... ignoring the rich background we have for jobs like that. Use the lore, try to fit your character in, like make them have travelled to Ishgard, got invested with the plight of the people, make them hate the corrupt individuals of the Halonic Church, let them become a Dark Knight. Once more, there's working with the lore, and simply plucking the skillset from said jobs without wanting to make the 'sacrifice' to fit your character in it because you don't happen to like it. And I happen to be one of those roleplayers who simply won't roleplay it instead of breaking it. Because in my opinion, if your character's background doesn't fit with the canon? I see that as lore breaking. But that is once more, my opinion. Anyhow, people should roleplay what they want, and each to their own I wasn't saying that it was specifically a dark knight either, just someone doing things very much like a dark knight does...and I provided a few totally legitimate reasons why that could've been. We know for a fact that there were individuals using dark arts of some effect BEFORE ishgard's dark knights timelinewise. I actually see quite a few similarities between Warrior lore and DRK lore, too...but take that as you will. It's a matter of opinion. And having something non-canon means it breaks lore directly. Honestly, if there's nothing in the lore that indicated something isn't possible or doesn't exist, then yeah, I think that it COULD be canon. People can agree to disagree. But just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it isn't (or couldn't be) possible. I draw the connection BECAUSE I felt as though my character had a sort of "darkside" (which I had in place before I ever knew anything about dark knights tbh) and a similar outline. I ended up completing the dark knight questline and liking it BECAUSE I felt it was similar to my character. I felt as though it fit with his backstory and all that. And I don't see that connection as lore-breaking, either. I am actually considering having him become a bona-fide dark knight because of what I have learned. Potentially. But if people in this community are really so opposed to me drawing these paralells even with reasoning then I won't do it. I'm also kind of new ish to the game. so bear with me.

You're taking it a little too far in the regard that there's the capability out there. Saying that there -must- have been Dark Knights (named or otherwise) out there before Ishgard simply because of tyranny and the like is ridiculous. Not to mention the lore book goes into detail about the Dark Arts being something that was picked up on much later than the first Dark Knights beginning their long, perilous duty of service. My post about adapting the teachings and mentality of the Dark Knight to other cultures and sort of threading the line is just that: adaption and the like. You shouldn't make up lore to suit your character. R'khan, for example, adapted what he learned of Dark Knights to that of what he knows of Ul'dah, beginning his own service in that regard and even beyond that: to Eorzea as a whole. But yeah, you should definitely stay away from spitting your own thoughts, scribblings, and the like as true blue lore. Actually, I'm pretty sure that nothing I said about that being a possibility due to the factors of injustice, political unrest and people having access to learn about dark arts prior to Ishgard was untrue. I think you're misinterpreting me here. That's NOT the same as making up lore. There is a difference between using reasoning FROM THE LORE to justify/explain why your character has a tie to something--which you did, yourself. The lore doesn't provide direct examples of what YOUR character did, or what many other people's characters did. You make a character and try to fit the storyline somewhere within the lore boundaries. Just because something isn't 100% proven in stone doesn't mean it isn't, or couldn't be, canon--given how SE actually gives us a lot of room to wonder and fill in the blanks. You also said earlier on in this thread that we aren't sure WHERE dark knights originally came from--and I'm saying that the materials and conditions for a dark knight to function and exist in some form were very much around before Ishgard was. The "true blue" lore tells us that there was suffering, access to the dark arts, and that people were victimized by severe injustice and villainy in other places pre-ishgard. I am allowed to speculate, too--and so is everybody else, especially when I bother to research and justify my claims--which are TOTALLY based on the lore here. I'm not saying YEAH THAT WAS TOTALLY THE CASE, no questions asked....I'm saying it definitely seems likely, and here's a bunch of reasons why. This is part of RP and how people make characters. I fail to see how that's ridiculous. Furthermore, I am NOT the only one in this thread to have suggested that it could've happened in other places and at other times. I think I've actually re-iterated what other have said and provided why my character personally has a tie to the concept of dark knights too. The thing is, it is confirmed in lore, so there is no speculation left. Might just be me, but people speculate about the grey areas, or things we don't know. But I might just be wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There's confirmed lore saying that it didn't or couldn't possibly have happened anywhere else in some form, started in Ishgard, that's it, no debate? The lore book doesn't even talk about every single case in which someone has done something in the manner of a Dark Knight, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen in RP ingame. Because that's not what I'm seeing said in the rest of this thread though. People speculate all the time, and that doesn't really mean they're making up lore. I guess technically depending on how you look at it, WE ALL make up lore to a degree when we RP characters. That's just a matter of personal RP preference. Furthermore, having different opinions or people wanting to speculate doesn't make them or their conclusions ridiculous, even if you don't agree with them.

You're taking it a little too far in the regard that there's the capability out there. Saying that there -must- have been Dark Knights (named or otherwise) out there before Ishgard simply because of tyranny and the like is ridiculous. Not to mention the lore book goes into detail about the Dark Arts being something that was picked up on much later than the first Dark Knights beginning their long, perilous duty of service. My post about adapting the teachings and mentality of the Dark Knight to other cultures and sort of threading the line is just that: adaption and the like. You shouldn't make up lore to suit your character. R'khan, for example, adapted what he learned of Dark Knights to that of what he knows of Ul'dah, beginning his own service in that regard and even beyond that: to Eorzea as a whole. But yeah, you should definitely stay away from spitting your own thoughts, scribblings, and the like as true blue lore. Actually, I'm pretty sure that nothing I said about that being a possibility due to the factors of injustice, political unrest and people having access to learn about dark arts prior to Ishgard was untrue. I think you're misinterpreting me here. That's NOT the same as making up lore. There is a difference between using reasoning FROM THE LORE to justify/explain why your character has a tie to something--which you did, yourself. The lore doesn't provide direct examples of what YOUR character did, or what many other people's characters did. You make a character and try to fit the storyline somewhere within the lore boundaries. Just because something isn't 100% proven in stone doesn't mean it isn't, or couldn't be, canon--given how SE actually gives us a lot of room to wonder and fill in the blanks. You also said earlier on in this thread that we aren't sure WHERE dark knights originally came from--and I'm saying that the materials and conditions for a dark knight to function and exist in some form were very much around before Ishgard was. The "true blue" lore tells us that there was suffering, access to the dark arts, and that people were victimized by severe injustice and villainy in other places pre-ishgard. I am allowed to speculate, too--and so is everybody else, especially when I bother to research and justify my claims--which are TOTALLY based on the lore here. I'm not saying YEAH THAT WAS TOTALLY THE CASE, no questions asked....I'm saying it definitely seems likely, and here's a bunch of reasons why. This is part of RP and how people make characters. I fail to see how that's ridiculous. Furthermore, I am NOT the only one in this thread to have suggested that it could've happened in other places and at other times. I think I've actually re-iterated what other have said and provided why my character personally has a tie to the concept of dark knights too.

We have reason to believe that there were so many civilizations (contemporary or not) were full of unfair happenings that could've urged dark knight-type folks to take the DRK path, so to speak. Every civilization in ffxiv has(or had) its own issues. Where there are societies with unfairness, there are people who will experience injustice and therefore pain or loss of some kind. And that's really all there is it to it. They may have been officially recognized more in Ishgard, but due the fact that ishgard hasn't been the only hive of injustice, villainy, etc. so I'm sure the concept of dark knights didn't start there. Maybe it earned its name and a more substantial following I'm sure there were dark knights or people who did what dark knights do long before Ishgard's dark knights were officially dark knight'ing (that sounds sorta of sorta hipster-y, but it seems likely to me tbh.) My character would be one such example. People have definitely had access to using "the dark arts" before Ishgard was around, too. I think it may be a matter of documentation--some of these earlier people that might've fallen under the DRK category weren't mentioned as dark knights. Rah's a monster-esqe character who tries his best to be as much of a person or as "human" as possible. I also think the stipulations and details of the "darkside" depends mostly on the person, but we do know that the it consistently does and says the edgy things that the person's counterpart wouldn't do (a bit like when someone asks you for a favor, but you're itching to to tell them 'no'. Out of courtesty or whatever, a lot of people would say "yes" anyways....the darkside is the pent up bit inside saying "HAHAHA GUESS WHAT, HERE'S HOW I REEEEALLY FEEL >8D".)

Pretty experienced RP'er. I started in Everquest II and ended up on the Antonia bayle server but the rp is kind of thinning out, so I moved here five or six months ago. I would like to get out there more so to speak! Due to muse's mental stability (or lackthereof), I am tempted to say that full blown erp is probably gonna be off limits unless you intend to make birblizard a commitment of some sort. :chocobo: If you like: - lengthy and/or moderately articulate responses - backstory-heavy characters - artistic references - darker rp, or characters with inner conflicts/strife - multi-faceted plots and character development and a strong lack of established cliche/tropes - characters that are pretty/appealing, but not necessarily a definitive male or female either way - rp'ing with character whose rp appearances are not totally conveyed by the character model in game - characters whose development, values and beliefs can be shaped or influenced through other peoples' interactions with them - birds - character ideas that are still canon but outside the box etc., then I'd be happy to talk to you and work some stuff out! ^^; RPCWiki: https://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Rahferu_Daitou Feel fee to get ahold of me on here by shooting a reply or through other means: Discord: Osiris#2202 or get ahold of me on tumblr if that's your thing: http://salted-earth.tumblr.com/

Rah tossed and turned endlessly within his coffin, before at last coming to terms with the fact that he wasn’t finding sleep right now. Sleep, like the concept of someone showing him genuine and consistent affection always seemed to constantly flee from wherever he was or would appear. If I keep having things promised and taken away from me, I am going to go insane. A pair of soulless black eyes accompanied by mirthless under of umbral blue rolled open eerily as a flurry of long taloned fingers pressed a button nestled between the crimson upholstery of the coffin-shaped magitek unit. With a few clicking sounds and a low mechanical whirring noise, the lid split in two and swung ajar. The male lodged within rose stiffly and automatically; a shapely, nude form greeted the outside room with all the enthusiasm of an unwilling corpse. If I keep hearing lies from my “friends,” I’m going to go insane. A pair of long, shapely and relatively slender legs that tapered into massive, cruelly clawed and taloned paws for feet carried him over to the writing desk that stood perhaps a fulm or so from where his coffin was. A few tendrils of hair that had reclaimed that coiffured, nearly floorlength territory wrapped around his legs playfully, and somewhat protectively. Do you people have to keep taking things from me….? Rah knelt–his movements eerily graceful yet simultaneously stiff and automatic; as though only the most thoughtful and talented of engineers had foreseen and programmed his every movement to come. He leafed through each drawer until he finally found what it is he was searching for–what was effectively a small, magitek hand mirror. He stared with such pensive into the moderately-sized circular reflection surface of the module that he could hear nothing else in the surrounding background, or perhaps it was that he did not care to hear anything else. It was the same, always–the person staring back at him. It was him, and yet it was not–and this would only come to fuel Rahfel’s fear and fascination with mirrors and reflections of all types. Where are you? The only light in the room was offered by the shining blue and violet linear designs on both the coffin and the reflection module. Hydaelyn started to melt, and the eikons descended and confronted us. Look for me behind the light. I live behind the lie; ever so carefully constructed. ‘Twixt his own memories, Rah saw the illuminated visage who stared back at him–and it was nothing short of both perfect and terrifying. Long, beautifully kept raven-colored locks glistened comfortably in the darkness. Who are you? I followed the rules of their world; divided into two and released myself. His dark, ruby red skin seemed to reciprocate the comfort; for the light could not hit its unmarred, metallic surface so jealously. I only embrace red on the nights that I cannot kill. This is where we belong. The visage smiled at him as the thought crossed his mind. Rah wanted to cry out softly–but even if he did so in vain and silence, We know that he would still hear us. He always hears us, even when they don’t listen. He listens for us, and so hears, as they do not. They do not hear because they choose not to. They do not benefit from the truth, so they fear it and avoid it. After all, is that which causes them to utmost inconvenience. Those people... Even as they all get lost in each other and are blind to the darkness, he knows what is best for us. He cares for us, even when they all will come to die; one after one. And this is where we belong. And they; they too belong here, with us. Such beautiful, shining corpses beside us. In the dark. Though the sight of the shining bone gleam from their broken bodies may provoke us. Beside us, as they swore they would always be. We will have them beside us, as they all shall be; And they shall never leave us. We are a puzzle without an answer; and the voice that glared at their poorly-assembled pieces.

I play my character as Drk-type, but it's hard to explain. I tie his character closely with the struggles seen against the WoL and their 'darkside' that ensues during a few cutscenes on the level 50 Drk quests (iirc.) Rah also has a split personality, which can be sort of tied to the fact that he is what he and ignores his instincts to cause havoc, do bad things, etc. Basically it's the Rah that is capable of love, reason and compassion for others vs. his instincts to do bad things, tell everyone how he "really" feels, etc. The drk thing happens to tie very nicely with what I already have going in his giant, far-reaching mess of a backstory. I definitely wouldn't say he's not your stereotypical dark knight perhaps--he uses his inherent dark abilities as a means to protect that which he values most, and he's perpetually at odds with said darker side. I wouldn't say he's a certified dark knight, but he's that way naturally. His is probably different than a regular dark knight's, and that's okay! In Rah's case, I would even argue that the "darkside" is actually the real Rah, or who he should've been...but for space's sake I won't indulge the rest of the surrounding context for that. :chocobo: How you want apply that to your character is up to you. But a much of it seems to be turning one's suffering and negativity into a shield to protect others and one's values. I'm very interested to see how you put this together, though! ^^;;

Rah tends to watch people--being who what he is, he really doesn't know how to socialize. I'd say he's only really guilty about his natural bloodlust/murder tendencies. While killing someone that was really evil or wronged him feel amazing to him, he knows that murder is wrong and gets torn up about it, even though his other personality usually pirates the control without his permission during the kill. :ahriman: He's also a huge glutton! Again. Because of what he is, he sticks with smaller crystals as his main nom source...but he consumes "normal people" junk food like a mass dessert garbage disposal lmao. Rah can't bake either.

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