Another character idea

[mongi291]

I recently had this idea for a character, and I wanted to share it before actually creating it (not that I would have been able to create it soon anyway, but still...)

 

I was thinking about a Paladin that left the Sultansworn, feeling he was unworthy of the title, and now travels around the world, posing as a merchant, but still protecting the weak and the innocent. I wanted to ask a few questions:

 

- I wanted him to be an Au Ra. I'll probably get to create it when Heavensward is out (at least I won't have problems with naming), so I'm not sure if he should disguise his appearance like Yugiri does, or if he can just go "LOOK AT ME I'M A DRAGONMAN, UNTIL YESTERDAY NOBODY DIDN'T EVEN SEE THEM BUT WHO CARES" (of course not he would never act like this, but I think it makes my point clear)

 

- Do Paladins normally know spells like Cure, Protect and Stoneskin? Or does that imply they had to be Conjurers before? Most PLD NPCs (Jenlyns, Solkzagyl and the Sultansworn Squires) knew Cure in the job quests but I don't think they ever studied conjury.

 

- If my character was a Sultansworn, it means others Sultansworn should know him as well. So if I happen to roleplay with a Sultansworn, should I send them a /tell or something? I don't think I can just say "How can't you remember me? I'm [insert name here]!" without making them look like dumbasses.

[Warren Castille]

Hm. The idea of playing an Au Ra who was formerly a paladin might make for some issues. The biggest problem is that, currently, we simply do not know where they're coming from. If the 2.55 or 3.0 lore dictates they've only just arrived in Eorzea, your storyline is effectively blanked from the door on account if it being impossible. But! That also might not happen.

 

Vis a vis conjury and a paladin, that's also a little hazy. In 1.0, paladins actually had native spells of their own (obligatory griping about Holy Succor being removed) so it was assumed that all Sultansworn and Free Paladins had some degree of training in the art (as conjurer was still a base class for them then as well). ARR has removed that sort of hard confirmation so we're left to only speculate. Formal training at the Conjurer's guild is unlikely due to the Sworn having a presence in Ul'dah for generations and generations, dating back to a time when the three nations weren't exactly allies.

 

Finally, depending on when, precisely, your character walked away from the Sworn would be key in determining who knows them. Free Paladins are a recent invention lore-wise (I'm fairly sure, anyway) and most of the Sworn players I know currently are all recent additions as well. If your character has been wandering since pre-meteor, it would make sense not everyone would recognize him.

[mongi291]

Hm. The idea of playing an Au Ra who was formerly a paladin might make for some issues. The biggest problem is that, currently, we simply do not know where they're coming from. If the 2.55 or 3.0 lore dictates they've only just arrived in Eorzea, your storyline is effectively blanked from the door on account if it being impossible. But! That also might not happen.

 

Vis a vis conjury and a paladin, that's also a little hazy. In 1.0, paladins actually had native spells of their own (obligatory griping about Holy Succor being removed) so it was assumed that all Sultansworn and Free Paladins had some degree of training in the art (as conjurer was still a base class for them then as well). ARR has removed that sort of hard confirmation so we're left to only speculate. Formal training at the Conjurer's guild is unlikely due to the Sworn having a presence in Ul'dah for generations and generations, dating back to a time when the three nations weren't exactly allies.

 

Finally, depending on when, precisely, your character walked away from the Sworn would be key in determining who knows them. Free Paladins are a recent invention lore-wise (I'm fairly sure, anyway) and most of the Sworn players I know currently are all recent additions as well. If your character has been wandering since pre-meteor, it would make sense not everyone would recognize him.

Well, I thought of him leaving the Sultansworn about 7 years (I have a fixation with the number 7, not sure why hahah) ago, so he definitely left before the Calamity.

 

I knew that playing an Au Ra would be tricky, but I didn't think about this. Hm... What if he just kept his horns and tail hidden (most likely for the same reasons as Yugiri, racism and whatnot)? I guess glamour isn't really an excuse, because only voidsents actually use them to hide their real appearance, and, while the tail is of course flexible and it could be hidden in the armor, I don't think there is a helm that can completely hide the horns.

[Warren Castille]

Hm. The idea of playing an Au Ra who was formerly a paladin might make for some issues. The biggest problem is that, currently, we simply do not know where they're coming from. If the 2.55 or 3.0 lore dictates they've only just arrived in Eorzea, your storyline is effectively blanked from the door on account if it being impossible. But! That also might not happen.

 

Vis a vis conjury and a paladin, that's also a little hazy. In 1.0, paladins actually had native spells of their own (obligatory griping about Holy Succor being removed) so it was assumed that all Sultansworn and Free Paladins had some degree of training in the art (as conjurer was still a base class for them then as well). ARR has removed that sort of hard confirmation so we're left to only speculate. Formal training at the Conjurer's guild is unlikely due to the Sworn having a presence in Ul'dah for generations and generations, dating back to a time when the three nations weren't exactly allies.

 

Finally, depending on when, precisely, your character walked away from the Sworn would be key in determining who knows them. Free Paladins are a recent invention lore-wise (I'm fairly sure, anyway) and most of the Sworn players I know currently are all recent additions as well. If your character has been wandering since pre-meteor, it would make sense not everyone would recognize him.

Well, I thought of him leaving the Sultansworn about 7 years (I have a fixation with the number 7, not sure why hahah) ago, so he definitely left before the Calamity.

 

I knew that playing an Au Ra would be tricky, but I didn't think about this. Hm... What if he just kept his horns and tail hidden (most likely for the same reasons as Yugiri, racism and whatnot)? I guess glamour isn't really an excuse, because only voidsents actually use them to hide their real appearance, and, while the tail is of course flexible and it could be hidden in the armor, I don't think there is a helm that can completely hide the horns.

 

Sultansworn are tasked specifically with the duty of safe-keeping the line of Ul. Hiding your identity would be relatively impossible, not to mention a liability if discovered. I know people always disagree with me when I compare them to the United State Secret Service, but imagine being tasked with protecting the President without having disclosed your entire identity to the parent agency. It's unlikely.

 

Again, not to say that this isn't possible to roleplay. I'm just thinking that "au ra" and "paladin" are difficult to reason at current times. If Yugiri unmasks next patch and reveals that she's had agents hidden here for years just in case, then all of this goes up in smoke and everyone's got an in for it.

 

Au Ra might be Skrulls.

[mongi291]

Hm. The idea of playing an Au Ra who was formerly a paladin might make for some issues. The biggest problem is that, currently, we simply do not know where they're coming from. If the 2.55 or 3.0 lore dictates they've only just arrived in Eorzea, your storyline is effectively blanked from the door on account if it being impossible. But! That also might not happen.

 

Vis a vis conjury and a paladin, that's also a little hazy. In 1.0, paladins actually had native spells of their own (obligatory griping about Holy Succor being removed) so it was assumed that all Sultansworn and Free Paladins had some degree of training in the art (as conjurer was still a base class for them then as well). ARR has removed that sort of hard confirmation so we're left to only speculate. Formal training at the Conjurer's guild is unlikely due to the Sworn having a presence in Ul'dah for generations and generations, dating back to a time when the three nations weren't exactly allies.

 

Finally, depending on when, precisely, your character walked away from the Sworn would be key in determining who knows them. Free Paladins are a recent invention lore-wise (I'm fairly sure, anyway) and most of the Sworn players I know currently are all recent additions as well. If your character has been wandering since pre-meteor, it would make sense not everyone would recognize him.

Well, I thought of him leaving the Sultansworn about 7 years (I have a fixation with the number 7, not sure why hahah) ago, so he definitely left before the Calamity.

 

I knew that playing an Au Ra would be tricky, but I didn't think about this. Hm... What if he just kept his horns and tail hidden (most likely for the same reasons as Yugiri, racism and whatnot)? I guess glamour isn't really an excuse, because only voidsents actually use them to hide their real appearance, and, while the tail is of course flexible and it could be hidden in the armor, I don't think there is a helm that can completely hide the horns.

 

Sultansworn are tasked specifically with the duty of safe-keeping the line of Ul. Hiding your identity would be relatively impossible, not to mention a liability if discovered. I know people always disagree with me when I compare them to the United State Secret Service, but imagine being tasked with protecting the President without having disclosed your entire identity to the parent agency. It's unlikely.

 

Again, not to say that this isn't possible to roleplay. I'm just thinking that "au ra" and "paladin" are difficult to reason at current times. If Yugiri unmasks next patch and reveals that she's had agents hidden here for years just in case, then all of this goes up in smoke and everyone's got an in for it.

 

Au Ra might be Skrulls.

Well I guess I'll keep an eye on the next patch, even if I can't actually play it at the moment. If they say Yugiri was the first Au Ra in Eorzea, I'll just change race. I didn't even want to make my character's race a central part of his backstory, I wanted it to be an Au Ra for the sake of being one. But I can adapt.

[Warren Castille]

We're on the cusp of having some more details on the race, so hopefully everything works out. Everything else in your concept is perfectly sound to my ears, for whatever token amount that's worth.

[mongi291]

We're on the cusp of having some more details on the race, so hopefully everything works out. Everything else in your concept is perfectly sound to my ears, for whatever token amount that's worth.

Ok, thanks.

[Yssen]

Hmm. Well, the only concrete information on where the Au Ra come from we have is that some of them are from Doma. We also know that they are more generally from the Othard continent, but as far as exactly where with respect to the continent, we got nothing. Yet. Not until Heavensward (or possibly some tid bits in the Au Ra creation benchmark). Please look forward to it, hai.

 

That said, it is slightly plausible that a Doman refugee could become at least a free paladin from a backstory standpoint. Difficulty with this comes from ones interpretation of some of the Main Scenario details. I will hide the specifics behind the following spoiler tag. Ye have been warned.

 

 

Doman refugees first petitioned Ul'dah for sanctuary, but were rejected by the vote of the Syndicate. This probably has nothing to do with whether or not a Doman refugee Au Ra would be allowed to have training as a Free Paladin, but may have some bearing as to whether or not one would be allowed to be a member of the Sultansworn. Just something to consider as you construct bits of character stuff.

 

 

 

As for formal training in Conjury. Your mileage may vary. While it is certainly true that Paladins may require access to restorative and protective magics before starting their formal training, there is evidence that this may not actually require formal training in Conjury from and IC stand point. Mainly because the various casting guilds have been shown to be a little more about formalized methods of casting than effects. Details hidden, just incase, but below.

 

 

 

The CNJ quest has an NPC that does not use the land around them to fuel their effects, and states that there are others than can also do this. The CNJ Guild considers this a dangerous alternative to their formalized teachings, but that same line gets spouted in the class quests for the other casting guilds with reference to similar situations/effects/methods, too. BLMs call on the Void, a Thaumaturgy no no, Summoners alter their Arcanistry in order to summom primal Egis with lost Alagan methods, Scholars draw on lost knowledge from Nym to do their thing, etc. That stands as a bit of proof that there is more than one way to skin a cat, or (in this case) cast a cure spell.

 

 

 

So. All that said, it is all doable with a few considerations. Any Doman Au Ra formally trained as a Paladin (as opposed to say, an Ishgardian Temple Knight or some Doman equivilant that may or may not exist) would have to have done so fairly recently. Which would mean their leaving the Sultansworn would likely be equally recently. This is not necessarily your only route, however. Being an Au Ra that jaunted over to Eorzea from Othard and simply dressed all covered up like Yugiri is certainly an option. Though, this may run into a fair amount of complication depending on what you are trying to throw into your background. It brings up fun questions like; "How did you manage to keep yourself hidden for X amount of years? " and "Is there anyone out there that discovered what you are exactly?" and "What excuse did you use to remain covered up/disguised that prevented the Sultansworn from digging at you about it further?"

 

Lastly, a reminder that nothing here is meant to dissuade you from doing what you wish to do. Go for it. Own it. Do it. My hope is that some of this information is helpful in fully fleshing out and creating your character's story bits. Have a spectacular day.

[mongi291]

Hmm. Well, the only concrete information on where the Au Ra come from we have is that some of them are from Doma. We also know that they are more generally from the Othard continent, but as far as exactly where with respect to the continent, we got nothing. Yet. Not until Heavensward (or possibly some tid bits in the Au Ra creation benchmark). Please look forward to it, hai.

 

That said, it is slightly plausible that a Doman refugee could become at least a free paladin from a backstory standpoint. Difficulty with this comes from ones interpretation of some of the Main Scenario details. I will hide the specifics behind the following spoiler tag. Ye have been warned.

 

 

Doman refugees first petitioned Ul'dah for sanctuary, but were rejected by the vote of the Syndicate. This probably has nothing to do with whether or not a Doman refugee Au Ra would be allowed to have training as a Free Paladin, but may have some bearing as to whether or not one would be allowed to be a member of the Sultansworn. Just something to consider as you construct bits of character stuff.

 

 

 

 

As for formal training in Conjury. Your mileage may vary. While it is certainly true that Paladins may require access to restorative and protective magics before starting their formal training, there is evidence that this may not actually require formal training in Conjury from and IC stand point. Mainly because the various casting guilds have been shown to be a little more about formalized methods of casting than effects. Details hidden, just incase, but below.

 

 

 

The CNJ quest has an NPC that does not use the land around them to fuel their effects, and states that there are others than can also do this. The CNJ Guild considers this a dangerous alternative to their formalized teachings, but that same line gets spouted in the class quests for the other casting guilds with reference to similar situations/effects/methods, too. BLMs call on the Void, a Thaumaturgy no no, Summoners alter their Arcanistry in order to summom primal Egis with lost Alagan methods, Scholars draw on lost knowledge from Nym to do their thing, etc. That stands as a bit of proof that there is more than one way to skin a cat, or (in this case) cast a cure spell.

 

 

 

 

So. All that said, it is all doable with a few considerations. Any Doman Au Ra formally trained as a Paladin (as opposed to say, an Ishgardian Temple Knight or some Doman equivilant that may or may not exist) would have to have done so fairly recently. Which would mean their leaving the Sultansworn would likely be equally recently. This is not necessarily your only route, however. Being an Au Ra that jaunted over to Eorzea from Othard and simply dressed all covered up like Yugiri is certainly an option. Though, this may run into a fair amount of complication depending on what you are trying to throw into your background. It brings up fun questions like; "How did you manage to keep yourself hidden for X amount of years? " and "Is there anyone out there that discovered what you are exactly?" and "What excuse did you use to remain covered up/disguised that prevented the Sultansworn from digging at you about it further?"

 

Lastly, a reminder that nothing here is meant to dissuade you from doing what you wish to do. Go for it. Own it. Do it. My hope is that some of this information is helpful in fully fleshing out and creating your character's story bits. Have a spectacular day.

These questions are the only things holding me back. It's a fantasy game, I could just answer "IT'S MAGIC" to all of them, but it's lame. I dunno, maybe I could say that the Sultansworns at the time he left knew he was an Au Ra, but nowadays they are mostly new people so (almost) nobody knows about him?

[Yssen]

Or "IT WAS FANTASIA!" to the appearance/disguise questions. Though this would also be less fun. The bright side of character creation is when you answer the questions that lead to character ties. Which is sorta the case with the current problem. Probe the IC sworn (past and present) and let the character ties and good times roll in! 

 

I'd love to help in the connection area, but Yssen has a general disdain for "sworn swords" and "knights" and "paladins." Mostly due to an awkward set of morals (and the fact that he often adds the air quotes when talking about them). ;p

[mongi291]

Or "IT WAS FANTASIA!" to the appearance/disguise questions. Though this would also be less fun. The bright side of character creation is when you answer the questions that lead to character ties. Which is sorta the case with the current problem. Probe the IC sworn (past and present) and let the character ties and good times roll in! 

 

I'd love to help in the connection area, but Yssen has a general disdain for "sworn swords" and "knights" and "paladins." Mostly due to an awkward set of morals (and the fact that he often adds the air quotes when talking about them). ;p

Oh, Fantasia is actually a thing IC?

[Warren Castille]

Oh, Fantasia is actually a thing IC?

 

It exists in a grey area. The item is in the game, but it is never talked about, mentioned, or otherwise considered in anything except roleplayers' designs.

[Klynzahr]

So here's a quick thought. Have you considered just making your new Au Ra a skillful gladiator, who holds the same ideals that are common to the sultansworn?  

 

He could still be a fiercely dedicated protector of the weak, and he could still harbour feelings of inadequacy. Maybe surrounding the fact that he never got a chance to join the sultansworn?

 

There is no reason that he needed to learn his swordsmanship in Ul'dah either. I'm sure there are many skilled blade masters in Doma and other lands, who could take on an Au Ra student and train him in the same skills used at the Gladiator's guild. Maybe he picked up his moral stance from that teacher in Doma but left his apprenticeship, feeling he was not worthy?

[mongi291]

So here's a quick thought. Have you considered just making your new Au Ra a skillful gladiator, who holds the same ideals that are common to the sultansworn?  

 

He could still be a fiercely dedicated protector of the weak, and he could still harbour feelings of inadequacy. Maybe surrounding the fact that he never got a chance to join the sultansworn?

 

There is no reason that he needed to learn his swordsmanship in Ul'dah either. I'm sure there are many skilled blade masters in Doma and other lands, who could take on an Au Ra student and train him in the same skills used at the Gladiator's guild. Maybe he picked up his moral stance from that teacher in Doma but left his apprenticeship, feeling he was not worthy?

Well, although I know I could still use the PLD abilities (a lot of GLA NPC use them, the most notable example is Hoary Boulder), I really wanted him to be a Paladin that left the Sultansworn due to moral conflicts... I thought that a wandering Paladin that protects the weak and passes down his techniques to the common folk would be cool.

Also, I already have a character that is new to Eorzea, this time I wanted to have one that can go around ICly without being guided.

[Klynzahr]

Well in that case, your back to finding a good answer for your big "How did he stay hidden/ what were the consequences?" questions.

 

I'm probably not going to be much help with either, but I wish you luck!

 

[mongi291]

Oh, I have another question: I mentioned my character would be passing down combat techniques to the common folk, in order to teach them how to defend. While he would be able without a doubt to teach GLA skills (and more in general sword and board fighting), what if he took an apprentice and decided to teach him more advanced skills? Would that be possible without a job crystal? And how would Sultansworns react? Would it be "legal"?

[Warren Castille]

At a glance: Paladin swordsmanship is largely in line with gladiator skills on a mechanics-level. I imagine there are certain stances or tricks or techniques that are only given to you as a result of training. Those sorts of things would likely be highly frowned upon falling into the hands of "regular" people - You're giving everyone the secret Coca-Cola recipe, and Coke's not going to like that.

 

Sword-and-board, though, is perfectly fine. Basic technique and instruction can go a long way to helping people learn to protect themselves, and no one would frown upon that being done.

 

Soulstones are a point of contention somewhat. We don't know if they're required, but if I remember my fluff right it's reasoned that the soul stone in the paladin quest taking to you is part of why you're able to pick up techniques so readily. I personally don't believe all Free Paladins or Sultansworn are required to have one, but that's also a persona belief without any strong ties into the game (to my knowledge).

 

Teaching someone is fine. Teaching someone Sultansworn trade secrets is most likely very, very troublesome.

[mongi291]

At a glance: Paladin swordsmanship is largely in line with gladiator skills on a mechanics-level. I imagine there are certain stances or tricks or techniques that are only given to you as a result of training. Those sorts of things would likely be highly frowned upon falling into the hands of "regular" people - You're giving everyone the secret Coca-Cola recipe, and Coke's not going to like that.

 

Sword-and-board, though, is perfectly fine. Basic technique and instruction can go a long way to helping people learn to protect themselves, and no one would frown upon that being done.

 

Soulstones are a point of contention somewhat. We don't know if they're required, but if I remember my fluff right it's reasoned that the soul stone in the paladin quest taking to you is part of why you're able to pick up techniques so readily. I personally don't believe all Free Paladins or Sultansworn are required to have one, but that's also a persona belief without any strong ties into the game (to my knowledge).

 

Teaching someone is fine. Teaching someone Sultansworn trade secrets is most likely very, very troublesome.

Well of course he wouldn't teach them to everyone... For example, if he found a village with no one able to fight, he would teach them sword and shield combat so they can defend themselves just fine.

But, for example, if he found someone training in the use of the sword, he could decide to teach them more advanced techniques. Of course he wouldn't do it with everyone, but just with one or two peoples, and test if they are fit, both on a physical and mental level. He's not going to teach it to someone too weak and frail, nor to someone who could go mad and abuse those techniques.

And yes, I thought the same: you can become a Paladin, a Warrior, or whatever you want, you just need training. The job crystals just speed up the problems by giving you access to the memories of people that went through your same training.

[Warren Castille]

It's vague what the paladin skillset actually is in game - mechanically we get Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn but does that mean we can assume all paladins know how to do that? There are examples of fighters who are explicitly not Sultansworn of Free Paladins using those techniques: In Halatali Hard Mode, you'll face gladiators with sword and shield who use Spirits Without and Bloodstain, moves that are extremely similar but not the same.

 

Is it possible that the gladiators there received some training, but not all? Spirits and Bloodstain both have charge-up time, whereas paladins can do them instantly. Perhaps that's the important part? Anyone unlearned would take time to unleash such a thing, but a paladin trained in the kung fu style "secret technique" would be able to unleash them instantly?

 

There's a lot of variables in play. You should be alright to do whatever you choose with the idea, just be mindful that perhaps the Sworn won't be so content to learn a former one of their own is making his own legion of heroes. Could make for an interesting plot point down the road.

[mongi291]

Circle of Scorn counts as a PLD skill? It makes sense, with that name... I guess they gave it to GLA since there is no reason to change back to GLA after getting PLD.

Well, Spirits Without and Bloodstain are interesting: while it would make sense if they are the weaker, unsworn version of Spirits Within, as they are used by GLA enemies, we have Jenlyns, who is, if I remember correctly, the captain of the Sultansworn. I get it, the charge time and AoE effect on them is to make the fight easier, but they also have weaker potency, and in Bloodstain's case, no DoT. Why doesn't Jenlyns' version at least have the usual name and the usual potency/effect?

Sadly, I don't remember if Solkzagyl used them in the last PLD quest. Probably if he used Spirits Without and Bloodstain it would mean they are just for NPCs, since Solkzagyl is surely more experienced.

[Warren Castille]

Circle of Scorn counts as a PLD skill? It makes sense, with that name... I guess they gave it to GLA since there is no reason to change back to GLA after getting PLD.

Well, Spirits Without and Bloodstain are interesting: while it would make sense if they are the weaker, unsworn version of Spirits Within, as they are used by GLA enemies, we have Jenlyns, who is, if I remember correctly, the captain of the Sultansworn. I get it, the charge time and AoE effect on them is to make the fight easier, but they also have weaker potency, and in Bloodstain's case, no DoT. Why doesn't Jenlyns' version at least have the usual name and the usual potency/effect?

Sadly, I don't remember if Solkzagyl used them in the last PLD quest. Probably if he used Spirits Without and Bloodstain it would mean they are just for NPCs, since Solkzagyl is surely more experienced.

 

You got me, I misremembered CoS as a Paladin skill. It's Hallowed Ground that's the 50 ability.

 

This is what I was curious about regarding lore and mechanics - sometimes they mesh? Sometimes they don't. Jenlyns uses skills that also feature a charge-up time, but we defeat him as an untrained paladin. Is this manifested in the Warrior of Light? Are we overthinking game mechanics?

 

We don't have answers, which to a roleplayer also means we don't necessarily need them. If you can learn a technique, you can teach it. It might lose some fidelity being passed down, but it also might not. The idea exists firmly nestled in the reasonable grey areas.

[mongi291]

Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at least possible?

 

 

 

And if someone had already done all the new MSQ, could they give me a summary of it?

 

[Gegenji]

Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at least possible?

 

I think the update is mostly about the Ul'dah situation, so I'd doubt there's much new information on the Au Ra. Unless Yugiri does some disposition at some point during a cutscene. I can't really check it out until after work, myself, so I can't say anything definite.

[mongi291]

Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at least possible?

 

I think the update is mostly about the Ul'dah situation, so I'd doubt there's much new information on the Au Ra. Unless Yugiri does some disposition at some point during a cutscene. I can't really check it out until after work, myself, so I can't say anything definite.

Well, we know from the trailer that Yugiri reveals her face. So I'd be surprised if we don't get any information.

[Warren Castille]

As of this moment, patch has only been live for a couple of hours. I know people are already past the Trial portion of it, but I've also been keeping myself unawares of spoilers. I'm sure it'll be discussed if the Au Ra get mentioned, though.