One heck of a nice run!

[Telluride]

 

I'm articulating it badly, as I'm not trying to say "Everyone must play the way I deem it!" I just miss when challenge was met with determination and not surrender. I blame FFXI.

 

Edit: I consider it a personal failing of my own, hence my claiming position as a grognard earlier.

 

I do have to question: Are you're really playing the right game, though, for what you miss?

 

Because those games are out there:

 

 

 

 

[video=youtube]

 

[video=youtube]

 

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttv7WlR4kk0

 

[video=youtube]

 

[video=youtube]

 

[video=youtube]

 

[video=youtube]

 

 

 

 

You may not believe me, but I do in fact understand what you want. I just don't know if an MMO like FFXIV is the best place to find what you want.

 

My wariness in this topic is that I have developed a powerful bias against this:

 

Fake Longevity

These kinds of bosses

 

These older times you long for, I actually do get, and they go muuuuuuuuuuch farther back than Kingdom Hearts: Raiders of the Lost Ark for the Atari2600. The Ultima games. Level 255 in Pac Man in the arcades. The difference is that once you got these personal achievements, then.. well, you can be done with the game. Modern gaming has not as much abandoned these sorts of persistence; in fact, it EXPLOITS them by Skinner-esque rewards systems:

 

Player: I beat SuperDragon EX! I beat SuperDragon EX! WoooooT

(now, in oldschool gaming, you're done! You got that bragging right. You pushed through. But...)

 

MMO: Yay! Oh, sorry, the drop you wanted didn't land. Come back tomorrow, loser, and try again! Okay, okay, have a few tokens, but.. you'll be back. Rest up, pal, we want you doing it again. We've gotta keep you subbed some way, right?

 

It's not that people are totally unwilling to meet challenges, but the people who like challenge for challenge's sake are not, by and large, MMO players, and they don't exist in enough numbers to keep one afloat and working - if they did, I might still be RPing as my Wildstar main. They're off playing all the sorts of games I have spoiler-linked up there.

 

Subscription / Marketplace - supported games wont' be built this way, because people don't pay fees forever for the same old challenge. If I want that rush of overcoming a challenge with determination and built-up skill, and that's my main goal, I know that there isn't an MMO out there that is really gonna scratch that itch forever, and the closest ones to it turn into the nastiest depths of Eve Online, which are what you get when pure determination and drive to defeat things, rather than a community-oriented spirit, get too much power. I played Eve Online for a year, and I don't ever want to go back to that pit (and now I'm sure that a dozen people reading this are thinking, "What's wrong, you couldn't handle it, Carebear Noob?", which is the precise reason I left that nasty place)

 

I think of that moment in Wreck-it-Ralph when Vanellope finally realizes why that medal is so important to Ralph, and that realization turns rivalry into a future friendship - they both have realized that someone understands why they want something so badly, and are willing to go against the very rules of their own worlds to get it. Silly example, I guess, but we aren't playing a game in which the determination we're discussing is held in anywhere as much value by the developers as it is by certain players. Sometimes, we have to literally find a new world, or make one, if we want those medals that represent our own self-gratification. We wanna work up to Titan, bust him up, and feel good about ourselves, but how valuable can that continue to feel when that same fight is what we're expected to do over and over? Can we not dislike a challenge once we've beaten it? Video Game bragging rights just don't mean quite the same thing as they did in the 80's and 90's, and not in an MMO.

 

And.. well, I think I rambled, but I'm posting it anyway.

[Warren Castille]

Naw, you're fine. The challenge I'm having is that the transition wasn't instant: FFXI didn't file its teeth down for years and years, and XIV 1.0 was the sort of game you needed to outsmart and destroy in order to draw enjoyment out of it. I like ARR, and I like MMOs in general, but the concept has changed in my time spent inside of them.

 

I play hard games for the achievement, too. But this goes back to what I was saying about the trophies of yesteryear: You either could, or you could not, and you either accepted that or you worked your ass off to become able. Now you just go to the forums or twitter or reddit and hope enough people are in the same boat as you so you can get it changed, instead of learning the patterns of a challenging fight or spending the time to overcome it with gear.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be one-and-done with content. Beating something and never returning to it is sort of a nice bit of closure? "I never have to do EX modes again, because I have all the weapons finally" or something similar. "I finally beat Coil, and now NEVER AGAIN." The issues that were being discussed here were less general and more specific to Steps (and Pharos, later). I realize my opening statement that helped spark all of this was a bit vague for that purpose, but I recall with no small amount of schadenfreude the numerous cries for "NERF!" because Steps wasn't able to be done without some communication or strategy.

 

There's something to be said for the lack of ramp-up: If you didn't do anything besides MSQ you never had to really work hard for anything except Chrysalis, which lots of people still don't like doing (and wipe to, if there's anything to be said for my recent experiences in the roulette).

 

I've changed by not changing at all! I used to have my cake, and I could eat it too. That's not the case, and some people are slow to let go of that. As mentioned, it's my issue, not anyone else's.

[Aaron]

I wish ffxiv was Dark Souls combat hard.

 

I'd sub the everlasting shit outta the game forever and ever then.

 

Sorry just had to throw that in there.

 

On topic, the amount of casual players outnumber the amount of endgamers. So in general if the casuals want a nerf, they'll get it before the devs say no.

 

Just look at SoF.