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RP Servers: A Discussion (mods please read before locking..)


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I'm requesting that the mods do not lock this thread. The previous comments made by others in the other thread can be moved here since they apply to the topic at hand. This is meant to be a simple thread for open and civil discussion between mature players to understand stances as well as discuss alternatives and different options. 

 

(Now...let me try to remember everything I had typed out before I found out the thread got locked... :P )

 

I never thought that the whole Legacy vs Non-Legacy debacle would ever pop up here on the RPC. I can only speak for myself, but as a player who does have Legacy, I never really felt it did much for me as a roleplayer other than let me pay a bit less on my monthly subscriptions...

 

Before I get into the meat of things, let me state something: I play two characters. "So what?", right? Well the thing is, my first character, Mtoto, has been around since 1.0 and I suppose is what is considered a "Legacy Character" (I hate this term...). My second character, Athumani, is not. He is coming into A Realm Reborn as a fresh new face within the landscape of the community. More over, I am just as much of a gamer as I am a role player. I try to keep a pretty strict balance between the two. I'll touch more on these two facts a bit later and why I feel they are relevant to the situation...

 

To begin, as a gamer I completely understand the standpoint of someone new coming into an already established world/server. It's a daunting feeling seeing other players run around in their high tier/end game gear or feeling like there is no one around your level to help you with quests, jobs, and other things. Trust me when I say I can empathize. The truest and closest example I can give is when I first started playing FFXI. I got into the game late in its life cycle. Treasures of Aht Urhgan had just come out I just picked up the game. Going in, I quickly realized that I was at the bottom of a huge hill. In order for me to enjoy the new content with people, I had to get my job, my subjobs, complete certain quest lines, reach a certain level, etc. etc. With the little help I received, it made it all the more difficult and I felt that had I just picked up the game when it first came out, I would have been better off. I ended up leaving XI once I hit 40, and suffice it to say, it wasn't a pleasant experience. 

 

As a role player, my stance is a bit different. I've always been of the opinion that one's character is not necessarily bound to the mechanics of the game, but rather the lore set and the realm of possibility presented within it. For example, as someone who has played the game for a long period of time, my main character is level 50 across all jobs. Does this mean that Mtoto is skilled and proficient in all weapon classes? Not at all. My character's growth has for the most part been separate from my growth as a player. In other words, the levels I gained do not translate to her acquired skill, knowledge, and experience she has gathered throughout her life. To this end, I feel that a new player who is interested in RP, shouldn't feel that just because they aren't level 50, they aren't an "established" character or hold the same skills as someone who is. A character is only as established and fleshed out as their story warrants, not by their stats or gear. A thing to keep in mind is that RPing is a form of creative interpretation and suspension of belief. We already RP out things like climbing and swimming, two things you can't do in game. So who's to say that we can't suspend our belief for new characters who are wearing not so fancy gear and instead only see the RP at hand where the character is wearing something more fitting to them or that the character is not a level 1 gladiator, but rather just an adventurer who is skilled with a sword? When RPing, don't stress out so much about the mechanics, just make sure your character is grounded to the world they live in and is believable. People tend to RP just fine in these situations from my experience...

 

Now the question might arise, "If mechanics aren't that important in an RP setting to you, why don't you just move to a new RP server with your current character?" I admit, this is a bit harder to answer. There are a few different reasons why people don't want to do that if they have to start over. 

 

A.) This server, this world, it is a living, breathing setting. Both our characters and us as player have experienced a lot over the past 3 years. The fall of Dalamud, the Garlean invasion, the Grand Companies being reformed, Beastmen summoning Primals, the Archons, etc. There are so many things we've experienced, here, on this world, that it would be hard for myself and many others to just up and leave. This is our home and we are proud of it.

 

B.) Not only has lore been established from 1.0, the community has established quite an extensive lore in itself. You have hundreds of characters who have interacted with one another in some way, shape, or form. Relationships have been forged, friendships have been made. This isn't even limited to only a RP thing. Balmung is home to many friendly non-Rpers as well who many of us have grown close to over the years. We also don't want to lose the ability to play with friends here.

 

C.) This one is more about gameplay than RP. We've invested a lot of time into the characters we have. A lot of us just aren't willing to lose all of that  if we can't carry this version of our characters to the new server. That's the simple, cut and dry truth for many of us.

 

Let me touch base with what I said earlier about me having two characters. As I said earlier, my secondary character is new to ARR. As it were, he is starting off at 1.0 in many cases. However, in his character story and background leading up to ARR, he has quite a bit of experience and is a monk. Obviously as a new character, I'm not going to have access to that from the get go, so does that mean my character is unable to be a monk? Does he literally have to start at square 1? Personally, I don't RP that way as I've already stated. I would simply RP him out how he is meant to be, not what the game mechanics restrict me to. So long as he isn't a Mary Sue character and isn't breaking lore or the realm of possibility, I don't see and issue with doing this. I feel that new RPers coming in shouldn't either.

 

I remember talking to a few friends a little while back and the topic of "would you go stay on Balmung if another server designated for RP were created?" came up. I said yes I would stay, but I also said that if the majority of the RP community where to go to the RP server, I would simply make a character on both worlds. One to RP with on the RP server, and one to play the game with on the server I'm already on. Others also said they'd be prepared to do something like this should the need arise.

 

So I ask a question to new players coming into the game and are looking to move to a new server. Has creating two versions of your character been thought of? As in, have you thought of creating one on the new server to experience the game new with other new people and creating another character on the RP server strictly for RPing come up at all? In this manner you get the new game experience and also can stay in touch with the RP community that has been formed, which in my opinion, would be much easier to do than go and create an entirely new one that is isolated from this one. Many of us want to RP with new faces!

 

The bottom line of all this is that I think it would be sad to see new people and returning rpers have to split from other rpers because they have some stupid title like Legacy or they don't want to leave their friends. In the end, I feel that we are all roleplayers, and that should be enough to be like, "Hey! Wanna RP?" "Yeah, sure!"  I don't think Legacy or non Legacy should divide role players.

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B.) Not only has lore been established from 1.0, the community has established quite an extensive lore in itself. You have hundreds of characters who have interacted with one another in some way, shape, or form. Relationships have been forged, friendships have been made. This isn't even limited to only a RP thing. Balmung is home to many friendly non-Rpers as well who many of us have grown close to over the years. We also don't want to lose the ability to play with friends here.

 

 

This is actually what turns me off legacy servers the most. I don't want to have to come into a world where everyone already has all their connections established and people favored. It's hard as hell to get involved when you have to deal with everyone who's already got everything down and have talked so much.

 

I don't want to have to deal with player lore quite honestly!

 

As for split character, no, I tend to RP while doing things. I'm not much for a stand around and RP person 100% of the time. I actively like to fight and quest while RPing with someone.

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I completely understand both sides of this particular argument. As I am not a legacy member, I'm worried about all the same things. About joining a community that's already so established, or joining a fresh new one where everyone's character is as new as mine.

 

It's kind of a matter of trust for me. Trusting y'all to help me jump into the Balmung community without feeling like I'm completely adrift. Because I really -do- want to be in the same server as you guys. I don't know you all super well yet, but I can tell you're a very helpful and nice bunch. I feel like we'll get along well while playing.

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I completely understand both sides of this particular argument. As I am not a legacy member, I'm worried about all the same things. About joining a community that's already so established, or joining a fresh new one where everyone's character is as new as mine.

 

It's kind of a matter of trust for me. Trusting y'all to help me jump into the Balmung community without feeling like I'm completely adrift. Because I really -do- want to be in the same server as you guys. I don't know you all super well yet, but I can tell you're a very helpful and nice bunch. I feel like we'll get along well while playing.

 

I think we will, too. One of the things that I'm looking forward to the most is meeting all the new roleplayers. Part of the reason I had my character get injured at the end of 1.0 was so that I'd have to start over as a level 1 Pugilist, and I'm hoping to meet many of the new roleplayers while exping and whatnot.

 

We really do want this to grow; and really, from talking with everyone there really isn't an in-group out-group thing with legacy vs. non-legacy.

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We really do want this to grow; and really, from talking with everyone there really isn't an in-group out-group thing with legacy vs. non-legacy.

 

I've sort of noticed one, to be honest, but it could just be different perspectives.

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We really do want this to grow; and really, from talking with everyone there really isn't an in-group out-group thing with legacy vs. non-legacy.

 

I've sort of noticed one, to be honest, but it could just be different perspectives.

 

I think people who are legacy are happy to be legacy, and they are happy to have been a part of something that isn't around anymore (the original FFXIV 1.0).

 

I think though that anyone would be silly to hold it over anyone's head though these days as we head into 1.0. I'm hopeful that within a year, or even a few months, it'll just be sort of a blur who was in the game in 1.0 and who arrived with 2.0. At least, that's been somewhat my experience. I joined Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 back around April of it's final year, when people were really beginning to brace for the end. It was a little hard, yeah, to start the game at that late of a stage, but I made some good friends all the same and now feel I have a place in the community. And all that, really, happened in the span of a few months at most.

 

I never got rich or had enough time to really get much endgame gear since I just was too late in arriving, but I had a really damn sweet time getting done the things I was able to. And the community really does try and reach out to you. One Gerik Aston heard I was an RPer and went searching for me to get an RP pearl and get me involved. :)

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I have to wonder how many of the concerns voiced here could simply be solved with time. I definitely sympathize, drawing upon my experience with FFXI. I came in late and leveling up was hard. It took me ages to even get close to the higher levels and getting groups together for all the quests needed just to do the stuff my friends were doing was nigh impossible.

 

That wasn't my experience with FFXIV roleplaying, though. I came into the RP scene here relatively late and while I did find it hard to see where I fit in at first, I stuck with it and now I can't imagine myself leaving it for the world. You don't need a relic weapon to roleplay, after all. You don't need to have a high level character or the best gear or a lot of gil to have fun roleplaying. You have to have that stuff for high level content and buying a house, sure, but not only is it easy enough to solo (even in 1.0) but so long as they're still adding jobs and classes people are still going to be leveling up all over the place, and level sync is still going to be an option for playing with other people.

 

And after some time, these differences will fade, and you'll wonder why you even worried about it to begin with, but that won't happen if you're too afraid to stick with it. Honestly, we're not nearly as far along as people think, mostly due to the fact that a lot of us were busy RPing instead of doing primal runs or working on relic weapons. I seriously doubt it'll be as bad as people are making it out to be, and even worse you'll have less people to roleplay with, and fewer opportunities to make friends.

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I have legacy status, but I did not roleplay or really play the game at all beyond checking how the game was changing every few months during 1.0, because I was waiting for male Miqo'te.

 

Having said that, the friendly atmosphere and enthusiasm to RP with newer people displayed by the long time members of this community has really convinced me that I want to go wherever the long playing legacy role-players go. Yes, I'll be behind in terms of gear, crafting, and connections. But at the same time I view it as an opportunity to play a character with a fresh perspective and joyful ignorance regarding the secrets of the world setting alongside established characters - many of them heroes in their own right. I see it as a unique opportunity really. Where else can you find a time skip and a major world shift in the setting aside from WoW's Cataclysm (which isn't the same sort of thing in execution)?

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I'm sure there are many of us here, myself included, who will be starting fresh and making brand new characters on Balmung.

 

While I understand the fears people have about joining an already established server, I honestly don't think it will be as big of an issue as people expect it to be. People have been joining MMOs a while after launch ever since the beginning of MMOs, I've been one of those many many times. Even when I joined FFXI nearly 10 years after launch, I never had a problem finding other newer players. There's more of us than you think! And most game veterans are very friendly towards new players. Yes, there are always some elitists and jerks, but those are a small part of the community and can just be avoided. Plus I'm very certain that the people here at RPC are NOT such people. The legacy members here at RPC have been nothing but friendly towards all of us new players who have no 1.0 experience but are eager to get into ARR.

 

Personally, to me it's more about people than game mechanics. Yes, I'll have a disadvantage because I don't have a 50 job, or tons of gil, but that doesn't concern me at all. It will all come in time. I have never thought for a second that I would be ousted because of that. There are so many interesting characters and stories on Balmung that I want to be part of. And as I read posts here, I'm constantly reassured that there are no closed off RP cliques who want nothing to do with me or my character because I'm new. I only see friendly veterans eager to meet all of us newcomers. And I see many new RPers here anxious to do the same on Balmung, so I know I will not be alone.

 

I'll be joining Balmung.

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We really do want this to grow; and really, from talking with everyone there really isn't an in-group out-group thing with legacy vs. non-legacy.

 

I've sort of noticed one, to be honest, but it could just be different perspectives.

 

I think what you're seeing is there in some capacity, but certainly isn't intentional or malicious. The people here who played in 1.0 have gotten to know each other through roleplay, and it's given us a sort of familiarity that I think is hard to replicate in a forum setting like this. I know because that's exactly how it felt when I first joined, but I guarantee that once roleplaying in game starts in earnest, you'll be familiar before long. It won't happen all at once, but if you stick around and stay with it, you'll find a place.

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Well, it's sort of been happening in this thread and the last one, though. There's very much a presence of legacy players who tend to gang up on people and not really listen to thought out things or act dismissive. 

 

Like even this, I've brought up concerns and I'm simply being told "Oh, it won't be that big of a deal, you just need to try it and you'll see." Which, well, no, it won't be. I have experience in this. It's not just going to disappear, especially when legacy players are just dismissing concerns.

 

I did play on Balmung. I probably interacted with a few of you. It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be, and that by and far, none of my concerns have been addressed directly is really just sort of solidifying my position.

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Everyone is a stranger at some point. Im sure many 1.0 people went in knowing no one and finished knowing lots of people that will be the same for people in 2.0

 

 

As for me I will be going to Balmung any other server has the risk of being unpopulated here you know there is a stable community with lots of people to play with. Gil and gear can be earned over time so that isnt really an isssue ok maybe like in pvp it can be a bit of one but its not anything to lose sleep over.

 

The community in this forum is far to great to give up so like a sheep Im gonna follow and press that login button over Balmung.

 

Edit: I can really relate to the fear and concerns with being behind on the Gil and gear In guild wars 2 there was an exploit which gained alot of people gold and I was left in the dust but I managed to build from nothing and become quite rich. But as I said prevouisly it can be earned over time. You never know what things you will find along the way. But you do have to see it through other peoples view as well they worked long and hard on their characters to just discard them would be painfull. I admit it was hard for me to leave WOW (World of Warcraft) after playing for 7 years putting in all that time and effort. It takes a great strength to just leave somthing behind and not everyone can.

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I can sort of relate with my FFXI experience. I started right around ToAU, and honestly, due to my work and living situations and the fact that FFXI was a downright insane grindfest at the time (Also the fact that I have ADHD and a tendency to just mess around chasing butterflies in MMO's), I leveled extremely slowly. In fact, I never made it to the level cap. It really sucked at times feeling like people's pet newbie. Especially at the beginning, when I was a lowbie and people were meeting up in Xarcabard.

 

But I have to say, I made incredible friends in the group I RP'd with. Incredible friends who really helped me out with things like levels and gear, and commiserated when I was whining about how insanely crazy some of the simplest things in FFXI were. In RP, they never made my character feel like anything less than he actually was. These friends are so incredible that I'm here today, chomping at the bit to play with them again. Even if I'm not quite meeting them on even ground this time, because of their Legacy status, it's more even than FFXI, and I hope at this point I can repay some of their kindness, and even pay a little bit of it forward.

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Well, it's sort of been happening in this thread and the last one, though. There's very much a presence of legacy players who tend to gang up on people and not really listen to thought out things or act dismissive. 

 

Like even this, I've brought up concerns and I'm simply being told "Oh, it won't be that big of a deal, you just need to try it and you'll see." Which, well, no, it won't be. I have experience in this. It's not just going to disappear, especially when legacy players are just dismissing concerns.

 

I did play on Balmung. I probably interacted with a few of you. It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be, and that by and far, none of my concerns have been addressed directly is really just sort of solidifying my position.

 

It seems there are plenty of people here who have addressed your concerns, Lilszee, and a lot of them were once in the same situation you're in. I'm sorry if you feel like you're not being listened to, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to listen to anyone else either. You appear to have your mind made up.

 

No one will stop you from starting on one of the new servers, but you have to understand that very few current roleplayers would throw away their hard work to follow you, and very few new players will want to go to a place where there are only a small handful of roleplayers at best. There's not much that anyone here can do to help you.

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Well, it's sort of been happening in this thread and the last one, though. There's very much a presence of legacy players who tend to gang up on people and not really listen to thought out things or act dismissive. 

 

Like even this, I've brought up concerns and I'm simply being told "Oh, it won't be that big of a deal, you just need to try it and you'll see." Which, well, no, it won't be. I have experience in this. It's not just going to disappear, especially when legacy players are just dismissing concerns.

 

I did play on Balmung. I probably interacted with a few of you. It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be, and that by and far, none of my concerns have been addressed directly is really just sort of solidifying my position.

 

They're trying to address your concerns. What is it you want them to do? There's only so much they can do, seeing as it's a game and they're just players. No one can change Squenix's decisions, we can only do our best to work with them. What are you expecting, for all of them to simply abandon everything they've done and created up until now and move to a new server just so that you aren't uncomfortable with them having that history?

 

No one's stopping you from not joining Balmung if you wish to start on a new server without all that. It's completely your decision. All anyone's trying to do is let you know that joining them on Balmung won't be the worst thing ever.

 

Sorry for being blunt, but I felt like I needed to say something.

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I see both sides, I honestly do. I'm at the standpoint however I am sympathizing more with the people wanting a fresh server, a new start. A Realm Reborn.

 

Why not make them happy, and have a poll to see which of the NA non-legacy servers should be the alternate RP server? 

 

In SWTOR there was at least one or more RP servers, apart from the 'unofficial official' server, Lord Adraas. A community shouldn't be based around a server, but rather the lore, interactions, and helpfulness of the community members. As some people have said, it is that persons choice to move to another server. But saying it like that is a bit harsh, and instead it would be more helpful to start a thread/poll where people can not only discuss the situation, but actually do something about it. It really shouldn't be as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, but it would be nice for some of the moderators to acknowledge they need to help others find another server, where others of the same mindset would want to go. 

 

That way everyone can be happy, and isn't that what we should all want for each other? I think especially for a game which has subs/money transactions/lots of time invested, people are going to want say in the way/where they play.

 

I'm not sure it's so much about cliques and people having been established within lore and blahblah, but is it too much to ask that there be a defacto regular server for RP? Let's just decide, and make this easy, right?

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I definitely want to be in the same server as the rest of the RPC community, but I just had a thought. Isn't it possible for servers to become full so that you can't join them? I would think the Legacy servers would be much closer to being 'full' than the new servers... Should we all have a backup server in mind, just in case when we try to join, we're told it's full and we can't?

 

I know this isn't a problem for Legacy members who are already part of Balmung, but it might be a problem if you're creating extra new characters.

 

Anyway, just a thought!

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It seems there are plenty of people here who have addressed your concerns, Lilszee, and a lot of them were once in the same situation you're in. I'm sorry if you feel like you're not being listened to, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to listen to anyone else either. You appear to have your mind made up.

Actually no one has discussed the gameplay disadvantages, no one has discussed the economic issues, no one has discussed the implications of players who aren't RPers and the sort of mindset they would bring, and I actually did give an in -- seriously, I totally gave an RP hook that could work -- and it was ignored too.

 

You aren't listening. Seriously, you really aren't. You didn't even participate in that thread, so you're telling me people are talking about stuff when I have no idea if you've even read it. Hell, the thread was locked because people considered it as derailing.

 

Also, Vee: I like you. That's more or less what my original post of this whole kerfluffle was about, and look how that turned out.

 

What are you expecting, for all of them to simply abandon everything they've done and created up until now and move to a new server just so that you aren't uncomfortable with them having that history?

 

 

No, I don't, and at no point have I asked them too. I have no idea why people think I have. Probably because they aren't listening.

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It seems there are plenty of people here who have addressed your concerns, Lilszee, and a lot of them were once in the same situation you're in. I'm sorry if you feel like you're not being listened to, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to listen to anyone else either. You appear to have your mind made up.

Actually no one has discussed the gameplay disadvantages, no one has discussed the economic issues, no one has discussed the implications of players who aren't RPers and the sort of mindset they would bring, and I actually did give an in -- seriously, I totally gave an RP hook that could work -- and it was ignored too.

 

You aren't listening. Seriously, you really aren't. You didn't even participate in that thread, so you're telling me people are talking about stuff when I have no idea if you've even read it. Hell, the thread was locked because people considered it as derailing.

 

 

As the person who locked the last thread, it was derailing, because it was a news post. There was no need for there to be an argument (which is what it was becoming) on that particular thread.

 

Now, I see that you have some valid points. And there are people here who have also made valid points as well. You can agree to disagree.

 

However, no one is getting hostile here, except for what seems to be you. Now, it could just be a misunderstanding on the side of typing, because tone is very difficult to get across in text. I ask that everyone here just please take a minute before jumping on the respond button to threads like this. If we can't have a discussion in a professional manner, I will have to lock another thread, and I'd rather not have to do that.

 

Thanks, and carry on~

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However, no one is getting hostile here, except for what seems to be you. Now, it could just be a misunderstanding on the side of typing, because tone is very difficult to get across in text.

 

Telling people they're not listening is hostile? I'm not insulting anyone, I'm not saying people are wrong, I'm just saying people aren't listening.

 

If that's hostile, then... geeze. You sure you guys are going to be okay for handling any new players?

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Also, Vee: I like you. 

 

Thanks. ^^ The solution seems pretty clear to me, though. Main RP server, where the majority, as they've said of Roleplayers will go - the Balmung server, and then have another server for people who might not be interested in playing on Balmung for various reasons, as well as just having a defacto server incase some people can't get into Balmung as soon as they'd hoped.

 

I really don't think in this instance deciding on another server for other people who want to play elsewhere is going to break the game or the roleplay community. I think having this sort of on-going discussion/argument could do more harm than actually just voting on a second server.

 

So when can we start a poll? Basically it could just list all of the non-legacy servers for people to vote on their favorite, and that will be the neighboring RP server to Balmung. If things do even out eventually on the Legacy server, there's nothing stopping anyone from transferring there to join the rest of the crew in the future, right? ^^

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However, no one is getting hostile here, except for what seems to be you. Now, it could just be a misunderstanding on the side of typing, because tone is very difficult to get across in text.

 

Telling people they're not listening is hostile? I'm not insulting anyone, I'm not saying people are wrong, I'm just saying people aren't listening.

 

If that's hostile, then... geeze. You sure you guys are going to be okay for handling any new players?

 

Hence why I said it could just be lost in translation over text based communication on the computer. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I made that statement.

 

And a statement like "You sure you guys are able to be okay for handling any new players?" does come off as incendiary.

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Let's focus more on what's going to help resolve this issue. People seem to be more concerned with what's concerning people about the Balmung server, rather than trying to resolve anything, as I have been trying and failing to.

 

People will have their beliefs on the way they want to spend their time/money, so leave it at that.

 

I think a second server is a fair condition for all parties, and is no way binding for anyone to join one or the other but rather gives more options to those who seek them, and would be looked at as a measure to help secure the community rather than sever it.

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Hence why I said it could just be lost in translation over text based communication on the computer. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I made that statement.

 

And a statement like "You sure you guys are able to be okay for handling any new players?" does come off as incendiary.

 

You're specifically singling me out. You're accusing me of being hostile. You're threatening to lock a thread directly afterward for people not being professional right after signalling me out. Consider how that seems from my perspective for a few seconds. Consider someone who wants to have another server that's not Balmung and essentially being told by a bunch of legacy players that I shouldn't worry about it while ignoring valid issues to bring up.

 

Consider that everyone seems to be under the assumption that I want everyone to reroll when I've never said anything even close to that.

 

Just, really, think about it for a little bit. Maybe you can see why I'm thinking there's an issue here.

 

And I'm all up for Vee's idea, so I have no idea what you're trying to even do at this point.

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I just want to point out one thing that I don't think has been brought up: Concerns about higher level players robbing you of a chance to experience levelling content as it was designed are completely null and void due to level scaling.

 

If you want to do a level 20 dungeon, you can advertise freely, and anyone who joins you will be bumped down to an appropriate level. Even having the very best endgame gear will not matter, as level scaling causes your gear's stats to be equivalent to a much lower quality while in effect. No worries about FATEs, either, as being overlevelled will result in receiving no rewards, so scaling down will be standard (and I believe something the game does by default unless you specifically override it).

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