Durability, Dueling, and You

[Kenteko]

So a recent situation within Grindstone (and truth be told, any time I see people dueling) brought up a question: How durable are characters in Eorzea? We know at least from Heavensward that it's possible to be mortally wounded from what is arguably a targeted wound, but by the same token we/adventurers constantly face massive monsters, sometimes even kaiju sized, and come out smelling like roses.

 

This begs the question of where in realism does our durability lie?

 

Now, obviously this is a bit of character may vary as a fragile, sickly miqo'te is not as tough as a healthy, strapping roegadyn but I feel like any sense of realism offered by the game is often thrown out the window. It is easy to accept that we all have some level of "anime durability" in that we're not going to often be dealing with internal injuries or shock, but by the same token where is the line drawn? The event in question, at least what I saw, was a smaller miqo'te getting hit in the head by a roegadyn with an ogre club, i.e. something bigger than him. In any meaningful situation, that's a near instant fatal wound if not a crippling one, but due to the rules of the tournament and suspension of disbelief he obviously just soldiered on.

 

The reason this bothers me is because it overall sets a lack of tone for combats between players. If we look at PVP (I know) as a point of comparison, PCs are actually more durable than RL humans, but still rather squishy when dealing with equals. A tank with a dedicated healer can stand up to several people, but after something like four or five, even a tank will crumble. All of those characters are regularly hit by the big name abilities from the game (flares, huge axes, apex arrows, et all) and even raw destruction (the LB) can be walked off if you're lucky. Even in Halatali (HM) the fighters are fragile, but can take several hits and keep walking.

 

On the flip side, you have people in duels who get borderline run through and walk it off. You also have people acknowledging the deadliness of weapons and using "blunted" versions, often forgetting that they're still 10-30 pound clubs (race depending) that can and will murder someone through concussive damage. This isn't even getting into how healing works and the complexity behind that, as many, many, MANY people use it as a slap on band aid that solves even the most grievous wound when the story depicts it as more slow barring some stronger spells.

 

So what's the real way to take these situations? Obviously, we're not going to be straight one to one with reality, but I find my suspension of disbelief is often stretched watching duels where there's either a gross mismatch of reach and/or strength, or someone blatantly doesn't care about lethality (the more common situation). I realize the Grindstone isn't the best situation, but I find the concept of wounds and pain interesting especially since it can and does make for writing some great scenes. Not everyone likes crumpling from a kidney punch, but is/does it make sense that the ridiculously magical nature of gear (the stats) mean that everyone is exponentially much more durable than real life or are maiming/savage (neck, crotch, knee, eye, heart) hits meant to be crippling if not lethal?

 

Sorry for the rambling, but this was something weighing on me for a while that I wanted to get out for the sake of conversation.

[Faye]

I try not to take game mechanics or the antics of the game's main characters into account much in my RP. I think it's easier to be on the same page to write compelling stories together that can mesh together to some degree if we play things a little more down to earth. By the same token, this is a fantasy setting and RP tends to be larger than life, regardless. The average FFXIV RP character is going to be significantly stronger and more durable than the average RL person, even if they're not meant to be a particularly super strong character. I don't think it's a question of magical gear, since most role-players I know don't seem to have any particular fancy or enchanted clothing or armor for their characters--most will have ordinary leathers or plate that protects them fairly realistically, if their character has any sort of armor at all.

Ultimately, I don't think there's really any answer to your question because everyone has different styles, inspirations, approaches, and opinions. Even when RPing in the same universe, there's wiggle room and probably no two writers will completely agree on everything. The best I can say is find people, groups, and events with mentalities and preferences close to your own, and enjoy your time with them. The Grindstone, in particular, is probably not a great bar to judge the community's approach to combat abilities. While it's a great and long-standing event that brings a lot to Crystal's RP community, at the end of the day, it's essentially just a dice rolling contest. The few rules in place are to prevent OOC cheating or drama, or obvious IC taboos like killing someone. Otherwise, it's an unbiased event that has no rules in place to enforce any certain level of lore adherence, power scaling, or realism, or to rule out the silliness and absurdity of someone showing up with a frying pan as a weapon for some laughs.

I think most people who show up to participate in the Grindstone are--or should be--ready to suspend their disbelief and show some humility because they go into the event knowing they're putting their character's fate in the hands of RNG and whatever their rivals will decide to write. It's an event that's open to anyone who wants to participate and operates on a very large scale, so it makes sense for Warren and the other running it not to alienate anyone or to put in place any rules that would be a pain for them to try to enforce. There are probably other, smaller tournaments that can and do operate that way; that's just not what the Grindstone is, but they both serve their purpose equally well and each bring something valuable to the community.

As always when it comes to finding the RP you enjoy, it's really just pinpointing what you want to write and setting out to find some like minds and kindred spirits.

[Gerel Kha]

So, as Faye mentioned, it's gonna differ between everybody. My character is a battle-hardened veteran who does do the aforementioned and kits herself out to be the best she can possibly be in a fight--from enchanted and highly conductive weaponry/armor to having a passing-to-expert knowledge of various magical disciplines. This does tend to make her fairly hearty. At the same time? She's been injured by something as simple as getting beaned by a bean bag. Her guard's not up all the time, after all. 

 

But there are plenty of characters who prefer to tread the more grounded and everyday aspects. The average adventurer who's still learning the ropes, the grizzled veteran who's a little past their prime, the flower-selling merchant who wanders about... lot of them are likely not to be in a position where they can suffer grievous blows and make it out unscathed. And that's fine. It does add a touch of drama to a general scene and contributes to a more vibrant atmosphere. 

 

But in either situation, you're gonna find people who just aren't "with that." And that's fine, too.

 

The most important thing to do is to communicate with your RP partners of the time and find some common ground. When it comes to injuries and healing? Something I'll often do with my character's attempts at mending others is put on a stipulation of "yeah, no, she's not great at it and her method of healing doesn't work as well for those aren't Monks--it hurts." Along with that? There's still a recovery period I try and put out there (which can be ignored, of course) to give those who're still seeking an injury arc without it being incredibly lengthy. When it comes to anything that's really dire, though, I tend to leave it up to the player in question. Always a good chance there's something they're trying to do story-wise. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Gerel Kha

[Kenteko]

I guess all that makes sense, it's just weird thinking about a few things in the overall spectrum. Obviously, we're not the WoL in the massive spectrum, but by the same token if we're RPing adventurers, we have some level of fantasy durability. I understand that every RP group should have different ideas, and now accept that the Grindstone is obviously something that should not be used for setting a bar, but what about things like the Danshig Naadam? What kind of wounds would someone face spending a full day in there (or really, any PVP area +- the Feast/Rival Wings). This is more a curiosity than not, but I feel OOC content can educate IC content.

 

I think at the end of the day it is somewhat context based. While I accept that the best case scenario is finding people and groups that mesh with my style, in pick up RP it's hard gauging the severity of wounds. I find myself sometimes asking whether or not to mention things like trauma or shock, but then realize that in a fantasy situation people may not want to RP or acknowledge that. About the only universally disabling attack I've seen in any given context is the low blow, and most people tend to react in the exact same way as it seems to be accepted to always hurt.

 

I suppose a takeaway from this is that when faced with pick up RP and wounding or the like specifically, extend my suspension of disbelief substantially to the point of almost legendary resistance until proven otherwise. I think I'd pivot the question more to someone who would likely face constant combat then, i.e. being in an active warzone or an active participant in Frontline/Rival Wings/the Feast or is it bad form to take those IC'ly?

[Gerel Kha]

I mean, ultimately, it boils down to the same thing: player discretion. The thing about injuries is that they're inherently limiting. You can't go out on big adventures if you're nursing a wound every other day because of this or that. It tends to be why the actual thing gets downplayed or easy-fixed in a few days time. At the same time, though, people still like playing off said injuries for dynamism or drama. 

 

Really, it's gonna come down to who you're RPing with, what you're looking for, and the kind of character you're playing. Mine's no stranger to war and death and injury-- but that's precisely why they're fairly good at avoiding it. They've done the song and dance enough times to know that getting injured all the time isn't exactly wise or productive, so they do their absolute best to mitigate it as much as possible. 

 

But it's all contextual, as you said. Some people are gonna look at the OOC aspect of content and apply it IC, yeah, but there's also still a good chance they'll play it the same way: stuff happens, oh well, not hurt. And that could then translate into how they handle conflict and consequence. This kind of topic is always going to cycle back to communication and trust.

[Faye]

On 10/7/2020 at 11:23 AM, Kenteko said:

I suppose a takeaway from this is that when faced with pick up RP and wounding or the like specifically, extend my suspension of disbelief substantially to the point of almost legendary resistance until proven otherwise. 

That's kind of just the nature of pick up RP in general. It's why I tend to shy away from combat and really anything more than small talk and slice of life with strangers until I start getting a feel for their writing style and forming a line of OOC communication. You never really know what you're going to get (and that extends even outside of fighting... really, you never know when another character is going to blatantly announce they're an immortal Voidsent Sineater Miqo'te Dragoon Princess from another universe). If you feel an RP is getting too ridiculous, there's nothing wrong with your character reacting in disbelief at the situation, or better yet walking away from it altogether OOC to go find something more up your alley instead.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Faye