Some respect please, this is addressed to all

[Corin Winterborne]

I want you guys to think about this from the legacy members point of view for a moment.

 

You have a character you built since the dawn of the game. You've built a community of dedicated role-players on this server.

 

Now, SquareEnix closes down the game, because, frankly, it mechanically sucked.  It completely rebuilt the game.  It has a lot of buzz and new players coming into the game.  But then, SquareEnix decided to institute a "legacy" system to reward the players for their dedication to the original game.  They also listened to the new players, who feel intimidated by the experienced players.  They want a "fresh start."

 

So, a group of players wants to have a RP community on a non-legacy server so they can have this fresh start.  But by doing that, they have to split the community into two factions, albeit unintended.  The legacy members have no choice in this matter without losing their characters and hard work.  Their characters are stuck on Balmung for at least 6 months, even if they wanted to leave.  

 

So is splitting and diluting the community worth it for these players "fresh start?"  I really don't think it is.  The role-playing community may seem large, and can support more then one server, but I really don't think it is.  There are so many benefits to having us all under one roof, and only selfish reasons to support a "fresh start" for the other players.

 

To respond specifically to the OP's request to stifle the debate about the splitting of the community, I'd have to wholeheartedly say no.  I haven't seen any evidence of uncivil discourse or disrespect.  We should be free to express our opinions (respectfully and civilly) that splitting the community is a bad idea.  I think it's understandable that some members are upset about this idea.  Unwittingly or not, people will be poaching members for the Gilgamesh community.

 

Also, I'm not a legacy member.  I have a level 3 thaumaturge I briefly played when the game came out.  I will be starting out fresh on Balmung.  I'll have a great community to help me grow as a character and as a player.  I won't have to deal with low-supply, high demand prices on the new server.

 

You're free to play on Gilgamesh.  But I don't have to respect your choice, and I'm free to disagree with it, and be vocal with my disapproval of the community split. But I won't be uncivil or discourteous with you.  I won't try to stifle debate, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same.  That is how I want to be treated.

[Asyria]

Nate, you just indirectly called people rolling on Gilgamesh selfish in one paragraph and said you're not seeing any disrespect in the next one...

 

I agree with most of the essence of your post but the OP never asked to stifle anything, he asked for respect. Something we all need to be careful about when discussing anything we have strong opinions about.

 

Of course there was never any direct name-calling, but even indirect offenses are, well, offensive.

 

Anyways, I'm not here to point finger, but this was just an easy example of how easy it is to offend when we're not careful. And that's all that's being asked here, I believe.

 

I also believe that you do in fact have to respect people's choices.

[Merri]

Balmung is a place for those who made friends a long time ago and want to see a new dawn rising voer their home with new challanges to rise up to, surroudned by companions they made before.

 

 

 

Personally, I don't necessarily think this is entirely fair. Now, I'm on the fence of encouraging everyone to go to whichever server they want. Everyone is entitled to make their own decision, and our community should support that.

 

I see this a lot on these forums, though, and it is rather upsetting. People assuming and confirming that Balmung players more or less are only interested in themselves, and the connections they made during 1.0. It's kind of unfair to lump everyone on Balmung into that, when honestly it couldn't be further from the truth. It's when this rumor gets spoken over and over again that more and more people take it to heart.

 

I mean, I'll use my linkshell for example. We've spent the past two weekends trying to get everyone, all roleplayers together for these events. New and old alike. I constantly see people from Balmung reaching a helping hand out to new players in order to help them get their feet and catch up. I know myself and countless others have already pledged to donate what we can to new players in terms of gear. Donate our time to assist in leveling and dungeons. Most linkshells are accepting these new players with open arms, and have programs in place to help them and get them involved.

 

To say that we're all just worried about ourselves and our own friends is a bit insulting. That can very well be a source of animosity.

 

On the other side of the spectrum, we have Balmung people who don't necessarily want the community to split. It's understandable. We've struggled in the past to keep our community together through lulls in subscription back when XIV wasn't doing so well, so we're used to fighting to keep everything together and moving forward. Naturally, that's going to spill over a bit into this situation.

 

However, I don't agree with the people who talk down on those who choose to go to another server. Quite frankly, people are free to do as they will, and I stand firmly in believing this site needs to facilitate RP in FFXIV as a whole, not just on Balmung.

[Tsori]

If we stopped using terms such as "minority" and "smaller server", which alot of you do in circumstances where its not needed, as you say eva your opinions have been known so why bother even putting in the line about small player counts in your reply when it added nothing to the conversation? It was based on assumption... an assumption no one has the facts to backup until launch. Now this isn't some attack at you, far from it, you just happened to bring an example to the thread for me.

 

First, the line about the smaller pool of overall RPers on Gilgamesh was relevent to MrHeat's query.  It wasn't like I was willfully targeting a Gilgamesh thread and taunting or anything like that - which is feeling to me what is being implied.  I invite you to re-read posts #20, #21, and #22 on the thread itself to read over this within the scope of context as it applies.

 

Moreover, there's no assumption here - at least not for my part.  People have stated in no uncertain terms upon which server they'll be playing.  Look at the polls.  This is fact.  The assumptions I see being made are by the OP in that people in support of Balmung are somehow berating those who've opted for Gilgamesh.  I would be interested to see the specific examples that prompted this thread's creation, since it appears to be more than just mine.  I'm fairly certain in each and every case there was no intent to "lord our superior population size" over the smaller community, as is being suggested.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you've gotten me wrong here. I said originally I wasn't targeting you but rather using your post as an example since it had been brought up in the thread. I certainly do not believe anyone is lording over anyone else.

 

My point was, and remains, that since we did an official vote... Both servers should be seen as equal and comments about the size of the community on either server should neither be used as a positive or negative.

 

However the poll (on what people are choosing to play on, not the server vote poll) wasn't by the majority of numbers on these forums but rather the vocal few. The numbers as can be seen in the registration. Statistics show a bulge in new guys since ARR testing began. Additionally that doesn't include those who want a fresh start. My point was rather that while you old legacy players may believe you hold the majority of numbers here that isn't the case, there is more "new" people off the back of 2.0 as such.. You can't assume that the majority of people on here are going to balmung just because ye ole legacy players voted in a poll that everyone else didn't. It is a assumption as you don't have clear evidence of every members choice.

[CallmeYahweh]

You're free to play on Gilgamesh.  But I don't have to respect your choice, and I'm free to disagree with it, and be vocal with my disapproval of the community split. But I won't be uncivil or discourteous with you.  I won't try to stifle debate, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same.  That is how I want to be treated.

 

I think respect is due regardless of which side anyone is on in this debate, regardless of server choice. Yes, this is a small community, and yes, it will be even smaller when members migrate over to Gilgamesh. I don't see how this hurts anyone at all, however. No, long standing members of the RPC won't get to roleplay with Gilgamesh's population outside of Skype or the forums, but honestly, with so many people around, what are the odds of people actually roleplaying with everyone anyway?

 

Disagreement and debate is, imo, healthy and part of a fully functioning community. Without people having opinions this would be a pretty boring place. But I'm not sure debating a choice that was made already is going to do any good other than stir up feelings. Especially on a topic as heated as this one.

 

So, I echo what others have said before me: just treat each other decently.

 

I've avoided this topic because I am a new member and honestly, it doesn't personally concern me. But I thought what the hell, might as well say my piece. So there it is.

 

As a sidenote: Rock, you seem to have a solid head on your shoulders and I respect what you're doing to help establish Gilgamesh as a roleplaying server. Diggin' it, man.

 

And to the RPC in general: I personally think what Kylin and the moderator staff has done to support the members who wish to start on a new server is awesome. This is a personal website as far as I'm aware and thus, it doesn't have to do anything. So kudos to you folks.

 

I may be new but this is a damn good community and I'm happy to be here.

[Tsori]

I want you guys to think about this from the legacy members point of view for a moment.

 

You have a character you built since the dawn of the game. You've built a community of dedicated role-players on this server.

 

Now, SquareEnix closes down the game, because, frankly, it mechanically sucked.  It completely rebuilt the game.  It has a lot of buzz and new players coming into the game.  But then, SquareEnix decided to institute a "legacy" system to reward the players for their dedication to the original game.  They also listened to the new players, who feel intimidated by the experienced players.  They want a "fresh start."

 

So, a group of players wants to have a RP community on a non-legacy server so they can have this fresh start.  But by doing that, they have to split the community into two factions, albeit unintended.  The legacy members have no choice in this matter without losing their characters and hard work.  Their characters are stuck on Balmung for at least 6 months, even if they wanted to leave.  

 

So is splitting and diluting the community worth it for these players "fresh start?"  I really don't think it is.  The role-playing community may seem large, and can support more then one server, but I really don't think it is.  There are so many benefits to having us all under one roof, and only selfish reasons to support a "fresh start" for the other players.

 

To respond specifically to the OP's request to stifle the debate about the splitting of the community, I'd have to wholeheartedly say no.  I haven't seen any evidence of uncivil discourse or disrespect.  We should be free to express our opinions (respectfully and civilly) that splitting the community is a bad idea.  I think it's understandable that some members are upset about this idea.  Unwittingly or not, people will be poaching members for the Gilgamesh community.

 

Also, I'm not a legacy member.  I have a level 3 thaumaturge I briefly played when the game came out.  I will be starting out fresh on Balmung.  I'll have a great community to help me grow as a character and as a player.  I won't have to deal with low-supply, high demand prices on the new server.

 

You're free to play on Gilgamesh.  But I don't have to respect your choice, and I'm free to disagree with it, and be vocal with my disapproval of the community split. But I won't be uncivil or discourteous with you.  I won't try to stifle debate, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same.  That is how I want to be treated.

 

Would you then agree on the other side of the coin. That it is selfish of those wanting to remain where they are with their set up economy back from a game that is practically completely different to what we have now. That it is selfish to keep their earned money from mechanics that the new guys can't now abuse as you did back then?

 

 

Would it be different if your characters had been wiped. Would you be moaning about your lost time then? I doubt it..a few maybe... But most would suck it up and start again.

 

 

I'm sorry but let's face it, if this coalition didn't have new members from the reboot, what would be larger?

The remnants of the legacy players or all the new players banded together on behemoth (since this remains the alternative)

[moody]

My point was, and remains, that since we did an official vote... Both servers should be seen as equal

 

I thought the vote was for making Gilgamesh an alternate server while the RPC would remain based on Balmung based on the fact that it was, in fact, stated in the news article regarding the vote right here.

 

As such, should we still hear nothing from SquareEnix by July 1st, we will hold a public poll on the RPC to allow non-Legacy RPers to select a secondary RP server. We will, however, continue to reiterate that our primary level of support will be geared toward Balmung.

 

I keep seeing this comment that the vote made the servers equal, but I never saw when that became the official policy. Can anyone link me to that?

 

 

That said, everyone should respect each other. That's pretty basic if these boards want to stay a good place for an RP hub. On the flip side, I don't think pointing out the possible negatives to either server is a bad thing as long as it's done respectfully.

 

edit: I suck at quoting.

[Tsori]

My point was, and remains, that since we did an official vote... Both servers should be seen as equal

 

I thought the vote was for making Gilgamesh an alternate server while the RPC would remain based on Balmung based on the fact that it was, in fact, stated in the news article regarding the vote right here.

 

As such, should we still hear nothing from SquareEnix by July 1st, we will hold a public poll on the RPC to allow non-Legacy RPers to select a secondary RP server. We will, however, continue to reiterate that our primary level of support will be geared toward Balmung.

 

I keep seeing this comment that the vote made the servers equal, but I never saw when that became the official policy. Can anyone link me to that?

 

 

That said, everyone should respect each other. That's pretty basic if these boards want to stay a good place for an RP hub. On the flip side, I don't think pointing out the possible negatives to either server is a negative as long as it's done respectfully.

 

edit: I suck at quoting.

Simply put... If the servers are not classed as equal then there is little point for the members of Gilgamesh to use the forums.

 

 

The idea of a rp hub, is to encourage and foster roleplay. To then say to those who use the hub your second class because you won't play with us begs the question why open up the choice of an alternative server at all. May have just said " it's balmung or you can leave"

[Corin Winterborne]

 

Would you then agree on the other side of the coin. That it is selfish of those wanting to remain where they are with their set up economy back from a game that is practically completely different to what we have now. That it is selfish to keep their earned money from mechanics that the new guys can't now abuse as you did back then?

 

 

Would it be different if your characters had been wiped. Would you be moaning about your lost time then? I doubt it..a few maybe... But most would suck it up and start again.

 

 

I'm sorry but let's face it, if this coalition didn't have new members from the reboot, what would be larger?

The remnants of the legacy players or all the new players banded together on behemoth (since this remains the alternative)

I wouldn't agree, no.  The economy shouldn't even be a factor for bringing roleplayers together.  That's the purpose of the RPC?  So how does splitting the community meet those goals?  And I'm not a legacy member.  I'm starting fresh like all of the non-legacy characters.  I don't want to play on a non-legacy server.  I want to play with the majority of the role-players and have experienced players to RP and play the game with.

[Koninbeor]

This is my #1 selling point for EVE Online. One Shard. ONE Shard. There is no debate. No new EVE player will ever have to ask which server is the best for this, that, or the other. If you play EVE then you play EVE. In a game with as many loading zones as FFXIV has (partially due to RAM constraints on the PS3) I see absolutely no excuse beyond MMO traditionalism to keep the entire FFXIV player base as a single realm. Each physical server would still fulfill a function and support different zones within that realm. But, of course, this will never happen as SE has gone with a more familiar format.

 

Since my dream for the FFXIV world will never be possible, I am forced to make a choice. As I have said before, and as Nate seems to have indicated, I have chosen Balmung as my home out of respect for those who have blazed the trail before me and worked hard through a mechanically horrendous game to provide the best and brightest community they possibly could. I would see it as a slap in the face to tell those who have worked so hard, "Thanks, but I'm going to play somewhere else so I don't have to be with anyone who is level 50." That said, I'm not saying that everyone who is rolling on any server than Balmung feels that way. I'm also not saying that rolling on another server is due to malicious intent in any way. But regardless of the intent, no one can argue that this does divide the RP community.

 

Other forums indicate that there will be RP communities beyond even the two that will be supported here. Each server is going to have to fight for its ability to thrive and that means competition over resources. In this case, the resource is a new player. There is absolutely no way to completely eliminate this competition unless both communities are 100% equal in every single way, which is never going to happen even if we try. And if you set up a rule so that no one on the forum can make a post to sway a new person's opinion one way or the other, simply laying out facts about Server B and Server G, the majority of players are going to pick the larger community by default and the small server still loses.

 

I sincerely hope that each and every person who plays this game, RPer or not, finds the server that is most cohesive with what they think is fun. I wish the players of Gilgamesh and other servers the best of success in building something great. Just please understand that eliminating the competition for new players is impossible. It goes against human nature. We just have to be as sportsmanlike with that competition as possible.

[Gideon Aryeh]

I am humbly asking the mods to close this, but also to reconsider a front page post and perhaps even a sticky mentioning the choice of Gilgamesh as the choice for those wishing to start on a non legacy server and to kindly ask all to respect the wishes of all regardless of whatever server they wish the start on.  I think official word on this will set things straight and prevent any misunderstandings, competitions, passive aggressiveness and the like.

 

 

Thank you everyone and good luck on wherever you decide to lay your roleplaying head. For those who are going to Balmung I am looking to help Gilgamesh follow Balmung's example. That is my one and only goal, and the reason why I decided to switch from Balmung to Gilgamesh as my main rp server.

 

I will continue to assist and help those who will be on Gilgamesh to lay a strong roleplaying foundation. Agree or disagree, I applaud everyone's support in an effort to grow and nurture the roleplaying community in FFXIV:ARR, and those who are wishing to help on a new server, well we surely need the help and would be glad to have you.

 

Besides one catches more flies with honey than vinegar, I think its vital we all remember this.

 

Thank you.

[Xenedra]

As such, should we still hear nothing from SquareEnix by July 1st, we will hold a public poll on the RPC to allow non-Legacy RPers to select a secondary RP server. We will, however, continue to reiterate that our primary level of support will be geared toward Balmung.

 

I keep seeing this comment that the vote made the servers equal, but I never saw when that became the official policy. Can anyone link me to that?

 

...but also to reconsider a front page post and perhaps even a sticky mentioning the choice of Gilgamesh as the choice for those wishing to start on a non legacy server and to kindly ask all to respect the wishes of all regardless of whatever server they wish the start on. I think official word on this will set things straight and prevent any misunderstandings, competitions, passive aggressiveness and the like.

 

We've been kicking this around in the mod forum, trying to figure out how we'd like it presented, as well as gearing up for the subforum.

[Merri]

At Sandbourne's request, then.

 

I do feel as though this thread has more or less run it's course and things are starting to get a bit heated. As he said, let's all remember that we're a community, regardless of our choice in server. Nothing will break that, so let's all continue to be supportive of each others choices. Thank you~

[Tsori]

 

Would you then agree on the other side of the coin. That it is selfish of those wanting to remain where they are with their set up economy back from a game that is practically completely different to what we have now. That it is selfish to keep their earned money from mechanics that the new guys can't now abuse as you did back then?

 

 

Would it be different if your characters had been wiped. Would you be moaning about your lost time then? I doubt it..a few maybe... But most would suck it up and start again.

 

 

I'm sorry but let's face it, if this coalition didn't have new members from the reboot, what would be larger?

The remnants of the legacy players or all the new players banded together on behemoth (since this remains the alternative)

I wouldn't agree, no.  The economy shouldn't even be a factor for bringing roleplayers together.  That's the purpose of the RPC?  So how does splitting the community meet those goals?  And I'm not a legacy member.  I'm starting fresh like all of the non-legacy characters.  I don't want to play on a non-legacy server.  I want to play with the majority of the role-players and have experienced players to RP and play the game with.

 

Have you seen anyone say they don't want to be on balmung because they believe the rp to be better elsewhere?

 

 

If anything the only thing that isn't a factor for not wanting to start fresh on balmung IS rp. Everything else from a stable economy, players who have completed the content, to server firsts, to established companies to players already at max level influences people's choice of server.

 

People's issue with a legacy server is specifically that.. It's full of legacy players who haven't been reset from the last game. Nothing against the players themselves, it's the fact they got where they are on mechanics not available now. What may be hard this time was easy for them before and vice Versa. It's not an even playing field and to some... That matters.