Help with character development!

[doctorgalactic]

'Allo everyone!  I've been watching the forum for some time now, but only joined recently.  After loremongering for a while, Ifinally feel like I'm ready to branch out and start fleshing out my character's back story.  I want to RP with a few friends to start, abut really hope to get engrossed in the community as I find more and more people with similar interests and goals.  So with my introductions out of the way...

 

My understanding is that the 'current' year as of ARR is 1577, or year 5 of the 7th Umbral Era ushered in by the Calamity and Bahamut's release from within Dalamud.  That would put the invasion of Ala Mhigo at or around 1557.  I've decided to have my character born in 1554, 3 years prior to the invasion, during the short reign of Theoderic.  There are a few potential concepts here:

 

1) His father and father's best friend ("uncle") were involved in whatever resistance there was during the Garlean invasion (they were known for having a strong presence of lancers in Ala Mhigo), and his father perished while his father's friend returned with his broken lance and helmet.  They fled through Gridania and spent some short time there where he made some friends.

 

2)  His father survived the skirmish and the group of them fled along with a few others to Gridania where they stayed for some time.  In 1562 his father and 'uncle' were called to arms during the Battle of Silvertear Skies, where his father perished.  (not sure if this is probable as I'm not sure much of the world was involved in that battle; most records indicate it was a skirmish involving Garlean airships and dragons)

 

3) They survive (or are uninvolved) in the Battle of Silvertear, and continue to migrate southward with the other highlanders.  Then the Calamity strikes, father dies, etc etc

 

The concept here is that I don't want him to be old enough to remember anything much about Ala Mhigo so as to not RP and invent fan-lore that could be broken if/when Ala Mhigo becomes accessible.  But it -would- allow him to "remember" Ala Mhigo if and when we are able to visit.

 

The concept of his father dying at a young age is prominent and important to his character as well, as his 'uncle' returns with his father's spearhead and helmet.  As they flee their homeland, his 'uncle' and mother form a relationship and eventually marry, thus his father's best friend becomes his stepfather.  

 

He has dreams of becoming a lancer like his father, but the devastation pushes them further south into the Southern Twelveswood and into Thanalan/ Little Ala Mhigo.  Those dreams are dashes the further south he goes as he increases the distance between himself, the guild in Gridania, and the legends surrounding Ishgard.  His step-father may have been injured and never recovered, and his mother works where she can.  At this point he realizes that he needs to step up and become the man his father was.  He makes his way into Ul'Dah to look for work to provide for his mother and stepfather, swallowing his pride and dashing his dreams.  Before he sets out, his stepfather gives him a gift... he had refashioned his father's spearhead into a dagger, for protection and to honor his father's legacy.  Thus begin's his entrance on a carriage ride on his way to the gladiator's guild...

 

There's lot's more floating around in my head about this character, but frankly I'm not sure how much information is too much (tl;dr) and I'm a bit shy about sharing ideas as it's my first post.  

 

PLEASE, feel free to ask questions, comment, criticize, etc.  I'd love to talk more about it, but I want to make sure that the people I'm telling want to hear it first...

[Desmond Aryll]

Very interesting. Sounds like someone Desmond Aryll might run into within the gladiator's guild.

I like the connection to the Lancers. It gives him some freedom (and you as well) in testing the playing waters in a manner of speaking. So is your plan to have him make a go of it as a Gladiator officially or is that just for some martial training?

[doctorgalactic]

Absolutely.  I want to make him a character that cherishes family and friendship over all else, and he becomes a gladiator out of necessity.  His dream is to become a Dragoon, following in his father's lancing footsteps, along with the stories of Dragoons his father would tell him when he was younger.  

 

IC, regardless of his desires, he learns the hard way that the strongest thing one can do is sacrifice for the better of others.  He feels obligated to care for his family, to DEFEND them.  His patron will be Azeyma, as he swears to Her when his father dies that he won't ever allow anyone he loves to be hurt again.  I want him to make this pledge when he's young, so it is a bit naive, but it becomes a part of who he his.

 

OOC, I've always played a DPS character and wanted to try something different.  My original intention was to just nab some of the early skills to cross-class stuff with Lancer, but I really ended up liking it, and the small crew I met while playing said they really liked how I was playing it (healer never took a hit!)  At that point I realized that from an RP perspective a character's strength doesn't necessarily have to rely on his chosen discipline, but rather how he implements himself into WHATEVER role he is in.

[Desmond Aryll]

Kayle sounds like a complex and heroic guy.

 

I look forward to bashing shields in the ring. At least initially.

[doctorgalactic]

Thank you!  I read up on Desmond's information, and I definitely see them running into each other more than once (for better or worse).  I have long term goals for him both with game achievements and milestone directly and in character, including (and against what appears to be all odds) starting a Free Company with like minded individuals who want to explore, discover, and defend the realm.

[Desmond Aryll]

Thank you!  I read up on Desmond's information, and I definitely see them running into each other more than once (for better or worse).  I have long term goals for him both with game achievements and milestone directly and in character, including (and against what appears to be all odds) starting a Free Company with like minded individuals who want to explore, discover, and defend the realm.

 

Yes definitely! I'll look for you on the field. And I like the idea of an upstart FC as well. :thumbsup:

 

Good things are coming indeed.

[doctorgalactic]

For anyone reading this, I'm working on answering the 100 questions survey as well, and I'll link to it when I've gotten that finished for a bit more insight.  Thanks again for reading, all comments and criticism are welcome.

[doctorgalactic]

For anyone reading this, I'm working on answering the 100 questions survey as well, and I'll link to it when I've gotten that finished for a bit more insight.  Thanks again for reading, all comments and criticism are welcome.

 Here's the link with what I've done so far:

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2688&pid=35709#pid35709

[Kyatai]

I like your concept, and I think it's feasible based on my own understanding of eorzean history. Course I'm not a 1.0 player, so still learning & loremongering myself....

But, I will say I look forward to meeting you IG!

[doctorgalactic]

I like your concept, and I think it's feasible based on my own understanding of eorzean history. Course I'm not a 1.0 player, so still learning & loremongering myself....

But, I will say I look forward to meeting you IG!

Thanks, I really can't wait  I didn't play 1.0 either, only open beta, and a completely different character.

[Shuck]

I don't mean to throw a wrench in the works here. Really, I don't. But you should check this out:

 

Dragoons (real, true Dragoons) are the exclusive property of Ishgard, an intensely isolationist and religious city-state in northern Coerthas. Like...the only way in was a single bridge, and they locked the rest of us right out.

 

Anyway, the Dragoon arose from this area when a guy named Haldrath had himself a throw-down with Nidhogg, one of the Dragon Kings, and quite literally wrenched the dragon's eye from it's head.

 

Since then, the eye of the dragon itself has been held inside Ishgard's walls. Dragoons are chosen by the eye (it glows or twinkles or whatever), for their ability to connect with, and channel the power of the Dragons themselves.

 

This, however, weighs exceptionally heavily on the individual in question, and they're at constant risk of falling under the sway of the Dragons they're sworn to fight.

 

Ok, so click these

to get the 1.0 story in it's entirety.

 

Short of it: No Dragoons in Ala Mhigo, and not a ton of story-swapping is likely to be had that far east of Isghard (and over some mountains. Check this out.)

Otherwise, the concept is...I'm gonna say "familiar". We're treading a lot of well-trodden ground here.

 

Let's get some questions cooking to make this (honestly, solid enough) idea better:

 

1. Why exactly does he want to be like his father again? Let's remember that this was a child who, for all accounts (being too young to remember Ala Mhigo), doesn't really know this man, save for the stories. He'd have like...a few fuzzy memories. If anything, from what you've told us, his "uncle" raised him.

 

2. Is this character's only aptitude in combat? I don't see a lot of what else he might do/try in order to make a living. I get that he wants to physically protect people, but you also mention that he's aiming to provide for his family.

 

3. Why is it he needs to provide for his family all on his own?

 

4. What if this whole plan in Ul'Dah doesn't pan out? Is this a first attempt, or a last resort?

 

5. How'd that trip through the Twelveswood go? The trees there eat people. Not joking, nobody goes into the Black Shroud for a reason. Gridanians know the routes, and Ala Mhigo had tried their hand at wrecking that nation in the past. How'd they get through a living, breathing, hostile forest that remembers their people and what they did?

 

I'm sure I'll think of some more later. Just stuff to consider.

[Desmond Aryll]

I imagine that since Dragoons are around in the game already, the job exists outside of Ishgard. Even if that is the original source.

[Nox]

Actually, you'd be surprised. I reworked my whole character's history so it'd make sense as Dragoon because Dragoons are pretty much exclusive to Ishgard. I'm finding this increasingly true.

[Shuck]

I imagine that since Dragoons are around in the game already, the job exists outside of Ishgard. Even if that is the original source.

 

No, man. Seriously. Real, true Dragoons are products of Ishgard. They've spelled that out in bold.

 

There's a difference in what the players are allowed to access, and their place in the world. Consider for a moment that the storyline in 1.0 was centered around the Player Character being the chosen one.

 

Now, obviously, we weren't all the chosen one, and the NPC dialogue for the Dragoon Quest straight-up says that the eye doesn't just pick anybody. You don't just sign up on the roster, and become a Dragoon. And even then, Dragoons are rare commodities. They don't leave Ishgard. They fight the Dragons.

 

Here's another video:

 

[doctorgalactic]

I don't mean to throw a wrench in the works here. Really, I don't. But you should check this out:

 

Dragoons (real, true Dragoons) are the exclusive property of Ishgard, an intensely isolationist and religious city-state in northern Coerthas. Like...the only way in was a single bridge, and they locked the rest of us right out.

 

Anyway, the Dragoon arose from this area when a guy named Haldrath had himself a throw-down with Nidhogg, one of the Dragon Kings, and quite literally wrenched the dragon's eye from it's head.

 

Since then, the eye of the dragon itself has been held inside Ishgard's walls. Dragoons are chosen by the eye (it glows or twinkles or whatever), for their ability to connect with, and channel the power of the Dragons themselves.

 

This, however, weighs exceptionally heavily on the individual in question, and they're at constant risk of falling under the sway of the Dragons they're sworn to fight.

 

Ok, so click these

to get the 1.0 story in it's entirety.

 

Short of it: No Dragoons in Ala Mhigo, and not a ton of story-swapping is likely to be had that far east of Isghard (and over some mountains. Check this out.)

Otherwise, the concept is...I'm gonna say "familiar". We're treading a lot of well-trodden ground here.

 

Let's get some questions cooking to make this (honestly, solid enough) idea better:

 

1. Why exactly does he want to be like his father again? Let's remember that this was a child who, for all accounts (being too young to remember Ala Mhigo), doesn't really know this man, save for the stories. He'd have like...a few fuzzy  memories. If anything, from what you've told us, his "uncle" raised him.

 

2. Is this character's only aptitude in combat? I don't see a lot of what else he might do/try in order to make a living. I get that he wants to physically protect people, but you also mention that he's aiming to provide for his family.

 

3. Why is it he needs to provide for his family all on his own?

 

4. What if this whole plan in Ul'Dah doesn't pan out? Is this a first attempt, or a last resort?

 

5. How'd that trip through the Twelveswood go? The trees there eat people. Not joking, nobody goes into the Black Shroud for a reason. Gridanians know the routes, and Ala Mhigo had tried their hand at wrecking that nation in the past. How'd they get through a living, breathing, hostile forest that remembers their people and what they did?

 

I'm sure I'll think of some more later. Just stuff to consider.

This is great feedback!  I' have to be honest, I didn't click all of the links, nor watch the video as having not played 1.0 I don't want to have any spoilers.  And monkey wrench's are fine, that's what I'm here for!  I asked for help with development, not a soapbox to be praised for my "awesome" ideas   

 

1)  I agree that the concept of his Father being an actual Dragoon may be bit far fetched.  I've read though that Ala Mhigo was known to have a strong Lancer's presence, along with the Monk's.  The concept was that Kayle's father (and step-father) told him stories about the dragoons when he was little.  I know that him being 3 when his father died may be to young to have these memories with him specifically, WIP.  However, it could have been his father's dream to become one, or his dream that Kayle could one day become one, etc etc.  Kayle may feel that it's an obligation to his father's memory to at least seek out information regarding the legendary Dragoons.  

 

2)  He doesn't particularly have an aptitude with anything at the moment.  I really want this to be a true coming of age story for him.  This is the equivalent of him going off to college and having to afford to live on his own by whatever means he deems himself capable of.  I don't know if you've read any of his 100 Question Survey, but he states that he tried his hand at mining, and a bit of Goldsmithing as well.  (I treated the 100 Questions like it was the entrance interview for a GC, or a guild membership)I want to be able to continue gameplay while developing his character, so I'm not sure which profession he's going to fall into.  As far as the physicality of him protecting people, it's kind of toying with fate vs desire.  He wants  to be a Dragoon, and would potentially be more than capable of it, but that's not where necessity has dropped him.

 

OOC, the concept here is that I usually play a DPS in mmo's, and typically a lancer-type.  I've personally always been fascinated with Dragoon's in fantasy, but I wanted to challenge myself this go-round.  I wanted to play a character with aspiration beyond what he's currently involved in.  Who is circumstantially unable to achieve his goals, but for the benefit of others.  I started phase 3 as a GLA and enjoyed it more than I thought, but it way outside of my typically comfort zone.  I decided that I wanted someone who, for me, had gameplay aspirations beyond leveling his first class to 50 and being satisfied.  Most people play the game by starting as the class they want to play.  I'm doing it a little differently this go round.

 

3)  This one I haven't fully developed either.  Potentially his family cannot afford housing within the city (which can be assumed as Little Ala Mhigo is populated with several families of refugees from Ala Mhigo proper).  I also hinted that his step-dad was recently injured, and quite seriously, requiring full attention from his mother.

 

4)  Excellent question, and the latter is correct.  This is the first time that he's branched out completely of his own accord.  Again, this is probably due to his step-father's injury (potentially from battling prior and leading up to the Calamity).  This is his first go at the 'real world', but he's a total boyscout.  Loyal, honest, hard working, and probably more than a bit naive.

 

5)  We know the pilgrimage thought the Shroud wasn't a pleasant one, it's where he got the scar across his left cheek.  As far as the Gridanian's on a whole go, are we saying specifically that all Gridanians hate Ala Mhigans based on a failed invasion that happened a hundred years ago?  Kayle's mother is a midlander from Gridania, his father is a highlander from Gyr Abania.  And they certainly aren't the only ones who made the trip south from Ala Mhigo.  The other concept I'm toying with however is that rather than passing through the Shroud they sail from the Velodyna River along the coast and eventually landing in the Bay of Dha'Yuz.  A great departure from the previous concept, but it's kind of one or the other.  How did the rest of the higlander's get to Ul'Dah?  Keep in mind that as they are travelling, the Battle of Silvertear Skies and the war at the Carteneau Flats in Mor Dhona all happen.  Kayle's mother is under the 'never again' mentality, and urges her family to flee.  Assuming that the Garleans came from the 'recently' occupied Ala Mhigo when they made their way west to Mor Dhona, that would put Kayle's family directly in their path, pushing them further south and both physically and emotionally further from his dream of visiting Ishgard.  He basically resigns himself at 23 to being the proverbial man of the house.

 

tl;dr - I still have a few more weeks to fix my backstory to match lore without having to research all my decisions until I spoil all the things that I want to learn as I play the game.

 

Keep the input coming, I crave this stuff!

---

~snip

Now, obviously, we weren't all the chosen one, and the NPC dialogue for the Dragoon Quest straight-up says that the eye doesn't just pick anybody. You don't just sign up on the roster, and become a Dragoon. And even then, Dragoons are rare commodities. They don't leave Ishgard. They fight the Dragons.

 

However, we know that they DO leave Ishgard, as there are PC's running around with the job.  Like I said, I don't know all of the 1.0 storyline, but I have to assume that if/when I login to a Legacy server for the first time there's gonna be more than a couple lvl 50 Dragoon's running around Eorzea, and if not there eventually will be.  Which begs the question: are the PC's actually becoming true Dragoon's or some bastardized version of it?  Granted, we all can't be the chosen one, but you simply cannot pretend that there aren't guys running around in Artifact armor...  Please keep in mind, I'm not questioning your sources, nor your logic.  I'm simply asking open ended questions for the sake of understanding.

---

In regards to Kayle's father, I can see reworking his history into a Lancer rather than a Dragoon.  Per the SE page on Lancers:

 

---

In former times, the longspear saw the most widespread use, due in great part to the influence of the proud lancer legions of Ala Mhigo. 

---

[Shuck]

This is great feedback!  I' have to be honest, I didn't click all of the links, nor watch the video as having not played 1.0 I don't want to have any spoilers.  And monkey wrench's are fine, that's what I'm here for!  I asked for help with development, not a soapbox to be praised for my "awesome" ideas   

 

1)  I agree that the concept of his Father being an actual Dragoon may be bit far fetched.  I've read though that Ala Mhigo was known to have a strong Lancer's presence, along with the Monk's.  The concept was that Kayle's father (and step-father) told him stories about the dragoons when he was little.  I know that him being 3 when his father died may be to young to have these memories with him specifically, WIP.  However, it could have been his father's dream to become one, or his dream that Kayle could one day become one, etc etc.  Kayle may feel that it's an obligation to his father's memory to at least seek out information regarding the legendary Dragoons.

 

Just remember that there's a huge difference between guys that wield spears, and an actual, holy knight of Ishgard that is bound to, and sworn to slay dragons in the name of Halone, the Fury. 

 

5)  We know the pilgrimage thought the Shroud wasn't a pleasant one, it's where he got the scar across his left cheek.  As far as the Gridanian's on a whole go, are we saying specifically that all Gridanians hate Ala Mhigans based on a failed invasion that happened a hundred years ago?

 

It's not the people you'd have to worry about. It's the forest. The Twelveswood is a conscious, thinking thing. One hundred years isn't such a huge deal to a tree.

 

 The other concept I'm toying with however is that rather than passing through the Shroud they sail from the Velodyna River along the coast and eventually landing in the Bay of Dha'Yuz.  A great departure from the previous concept, but it's kind of one or the other.  How did the rest of the higlander's get to Ul'Dah?  Keep in mind that as they are travelling, the Battle of Silvertear Skies and the war at the Carteneau Flats in Mor Dhona all happen.  Kayle's mother is under the 'never again' mentality, and urges her family to flee.  Assuming that the Garleans came from the 'recently' occupied Ala Mhigo when they made their way west to Mor Dhona, that would put Kayle's family directly in their path, pushing them further south and both physically and emotionally further from his dream of visiting Ishgard.  He basically resigns himself at 23 to being the proverbial man of the house.

 

Your timeline's a bit messed up. Silvertear Skies happened before the entirety of the events of 1.0 (during 1562). Carteneau Flats happened at the end of 1.0, a full ten years later.

 

Also, Silvertear was entirely between the Garleans and Midgardsormr. None of our troops were deployed to that.

 

By the time Silvertear was said and done, the Ala Mhigan exodus was largely done. As for the sailing route? That's likely the faster, safer way. Garlea attacked by air, and a small vessel could easily slip by the imperial air fleet. They'd also avoid getting eaten by trees.

 

 

However, we know that they DO leave Ishgard, as there are PC's running around with the job.  Like I said, I don't know all of the 1.0 storyline, but I have to assume that if/when I login to a Legacy server for the first time there's gonna be more than a couple lvl 50 Dragoon's running around Eorzea, and if not there eventually will be.  Which begs the question: are the PC's actually becoming true Dragoon's or some bastardized version of it?  Granted, we all can't be the chosen one, but you simply cannot pretend that there aren't guys running around in Artifact armor...  Please keep in mind, I'm not questioning your sources, nor your logic.  I'm simply asking open ended questions for the sake of understanding.

 

Again, there's a break between what the player can access, and what the world says makes sense. If every player running about was a Dragoon, and also master of the lost art of the Warrior, and was a member of the dying Bard circles, and also able to tap the forbidden (for real) practice of White Magic to it's fullest, that would be one bizarre world.

 

PC's, for the most part could not possibly all be true Dragoons. They can dress like them. They can mimic them through whatever means they please. After all, it's not like you can't just commission a set of armor, and ask whatever smith that cranks it out to make it look just so.

 

Likewise, red patterns on a white robe doesn't mean that the Seedseers of Gridania have decided that you're good to go on hurling around a magic practice that brought a golden age to an end.

 

I'm not saying that there are no PC's that are really, truly Dragoons. But it's better to be cautious with these labels (because seriously, the Jobs, as they are, are usually closely guarded secrets trusted to absolutely goddamned nobody), and remember that there are concessions the game has to make in order to allow people to play it.

 

Short of it: Chances of being a real Dragoon are about as good as winning the lottery. Fudge it.

[doctorgalactic]

~snip

Your timeline's a bit messed up. Silvertear Skies happened before the entirety of the events of 1.0 (during 1562). Carteneau Flats happened at the end of 1.0, a full ten years later.

 

Also, Silvertear was entirely between the Garleans and Midgardsormr. None of our troops were deployed to that.

 

By the time Silvertear was said and done, the Ala Mhigan exodus was largely done. As for the sailing route? That's likely the faster, safer way. Garlea attacked by air, and a small vessel could easily slip by the imperial air fleet. They'd also avoid getting eaten by trees.

 

 

I have to somewhat disagree or rather, clarify my statement.  The times you pointed out are correct, but still correspond perfectly well with his story:  Kayle was born in 1554, 3 years before The conquest of Ala Mhigo (1557), which is when they started to leave the area (whether by sail or trail).  The Battle of Silvertear Skies happened in 1562 as you stated, making him 8 by then, definitely old enough to remember.  Kayle's mother simply wants to avoid the Empire altogether, and if in fact the Garlean Empire moved from Ala Mhigo to Silvertear, that would put the invasion fleet flying directly over Gridania (where they potentially would have stayed for some time after the conquest) and the southern tip of Gyr Abania.  Carteneau Flats was in 1572, as you stated, making him 18 at the time, when his stepfather went to fight.  

 

 

I merely meant to imply that he would have experienced these events in one form or another (adjacent to the Garlean invasion fleet, and I'm assuming everyone in Eorzea knows about Carteneau Flats).  I think you took it that their departure to Ul'Dah was immediate and swift, and I meant to imply that they wandered for some time as they weren't certain where they were going to end up.  But as the events unfolded around them they moved further and further south to avoid the conflict until it was literally unavoidable.

[Shuck]

 

I merely meant to imply that he would have experienced these events in one form or another (adjacent to the Garlean invasion fleet, and I'm assuming everyone in Eorzea knows about Carteneau Flats).  I think you took it that their departure to Ul'Dah was immediate and swift, and I meant to imply that they wandered for some time as they weren't certain where they were going to end up.  But as the events unfolded around them they moved further and further south to avoid the conflict until it was literally unavoidable.

 

Fair enough. I had misunderstood.

[Grott]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I only lightly skimmed this thread. It's clear to me that you know the difference between Ala Mhigo's lancers and Ishgard's dragoons. Some clarification might be needed on top of what Shuck already said, though.

 

You mentioned something earlier about your character's father always wanting to be a dragoon or wanting his son to be a dragoon or some such idea. While dragoons are seen as pretty badass in Eorzea, I'm not sure if it's something outsiders would really aspire to be. I see this a lot, and it's not just you who has this idea of outsiders yearning to be dragoons. 

 

Aside from what Shuck already pointed out regarding the difficulty of becoming a dragoon, I personally don't see why most people would want to. Being a dragoon means you serve Halone the Fury in a holy war against dragons for the defense of Ishgard. Unless you were already worshiping Halone in your spare time and had some weird connection to a place you weren't even allowed to enter, why would you want to do that? A dragoon isn't just a really good lancer who jumps around and goes on adventures, as game mechanics seem to imply. Being a dragoon goes hand-in-hand with Halone, Ishgard, and fighting dragons. Of course, you see some dragoons wandering around out in the world, but those are usually exiles who have actually fought in the holy war. 

 

The idea that anyone who holds a spear or some type of polearm would live their life trying to be a dragoon is confusing to me, and I see it a lot. It's like saying "I'm a swordsman from Mongolia, but I really want to be a Templar Knight." While Templars were very well-trained and word got around about them killing people, it's unlikely that someone from a different culture would commit their lives to their holy war, country of origin, and religion just to get some sweet tricks. I hope that makes sense.

 

Not trying to ruin your day or anything. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents as someone who is also roleplaying a dragoon.

[Nox]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I only lightly skimmed this thread. It's clear to me that you know the difference between Ala Mhigo's lancers and Ishgard's dragoons. Some clarification might be needed on top of what Shuck already said, though.

 

You mentioned something earlier about your character's father always wanting to be a dragoon or wanting his son to be a dragoon or some such idea. While dragoons are seen as pretty badass in Eorzea, I'm not sure if it's something outsiders would really aspire to be. I see this a lot, and it's not just you who has this idea of outsiders yearning to be dragoons. 

 

Aside from what Shuck already pointed out regarding the difficulty of becoming a dragoon, I personally don't see why most people would want to. Being a dragoon means you serve Halone the Fury in a holy war against dragons for the defense of Ishgard. Unless you were already worshiping Halone in your spare time and had some weird connection to a place you weren't even allowed to enter, why would you want to do that? A dragoon isn't just a really good lancer who jumps around and goes on adventures, as game mechanics seem to imply. Being a dragoon goes hand-in-hand with Halone, Ishgard, and fighting dragons. Of course, you see some dragoons wandering around out in the world, but those are usually exiles who have actually fought in the holy war. 

 

The idea that anyone who holds a spear or some type of polearm would live their life trying to be a dragoon is confusing to me, and I see it a lot. It's like saying "I'm a swordsman from Mongolia, but I really want to be a Templar Knight." While Templars were very well-trained and word got around about them killing people, it's unlikely that someone from a different culture would commit their lives to their holy war, country of origin, and religion just to get some sweet tricks. I hope that makes sense.

 

Not trying to ruin your day or anything. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents as someone who is also roleplaying a dragoon.

 

Pretty much this. This is why I remade my character. Trust me, my original character was, you guessed it, an outsider who wanted to be a Dragoon for the sole reason of "Dragoon is Lancer evolved". Then I got some critiques on that and wasn't happy with my character as a whole, so... I talked to a few people (Uther included) and made my character a lore friendly Dragoon. I wound up liking my character much more after the change too.

 

I'm not encouraging you to throw everything you have out the window. I don't think any of us are. I did it because I realized that my former character was the product of laziness and I hated it. Anyway.

[doctorgalactic]

I'm sure this has been said before, but I only lightly skimmed this thread. It's clear to me that you know the difference between Ala Mhigo's lancers and Ishgard's dragoons. Some clarification might be needed on top of what Shuck already said, though.

 

You mentioned something earlier about your character's father always wanting to be a dragoon or wanting his son to be a dragoon or some such idea. While dragoons are seen as pretty badass in Eorzea, I'm not sure if it's something outsiders would really aspire to be. I see this a lot, and it's not just you who has this idea of outsiders yearning to be dragoons. 

 

Aside from what Shuck already pointed out regarding the difficulty of becoming a dragoon, I personally don't see why most people would want to. Being a dragoon means you serve Halone the Fury in a holy war against dragons for the defense of Ishgard. Unless you were already worshiping Halone in your spare time and had some weird connection to a place you weren't even allowed to enter, why would you want to do that? A dragoon isn't just a really good lancer who jumps around and goes on adventures, as game mechanics seem to imply. Being a dragoon goes hand-in-hand with Halone, Ishgard, and fighting dragons. Of course, you see some dragoons wandering around out in the world, but those are usually exiles who have actually fought in the holy war. 

 

The idea that anyone who holds a spear or some type of polearm would live their life trying to be a dragoon is confusing to me, and I see it a lot. It's like saying "I'm a swordsman from Mongolia, but I really want to be a Templar Knight." While Templars were very well-trained and word got around about them killing people, it's unlikely that someone from a different culture would commit their lives to their holy war, country of origin, and religion just to get some sweet tricks. I hope that makes sense.

 

Not trying to ruin your day or anything. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents as someone who is also roleplaying a dragoon.

 

I hate to say this, as I am absolutely loving this discussion, but isn't this lore-abiding view of Dragoons a bit... elitist?  Trust me, I am fully aware of what an ironic statement that is.  But we have to look at the gameplay mechanic as well as backstory to make any of this work.  

 

To become a Dragoon, in game, you have to level your Lancer class.  I don't think anyone will disagree with that.  Uther, I read your backstory, and it's interesting as hell with one caveat: the only way that your story works (and by proxy, the Dragoon class) is if you were already a Dragoon before the events of the game.  All things being equal once ARR rolls out, how do we explain the masses of folks that have the same intentions and aspirations that you do (to become a Dragoon) without the backstory of them already being one?  I hate to point out the obvious, but excluding RP, Ishgard is not a starting city-state, and as far as mechanics go, if you want to fly into the Dragoon class swiftly, you're starting as a Lancer in Gridania.  Now, you can RP that you're a Dragoon in the meantime, but for me personally, that doesn't allow for RPvE opportunities, which is something that appeals to me.  It seems that taking a 'you don't know what it means to be a real Dragoon' approach to anyone who works towards that Job without a lore-centric background could potentially make things difficult in the future.  This is an honest question: How then, IC, would Uther explain the multitude of other players running around with the Dragoon class?  OOC,as far as I know the jobisn't some random scripted in-game event that selects random PC's to be worthy of the title, it's something that has to be initiated by the PC.  It is something to strive for.  Of course people are going to strive for it, that's not confusing to me at all.  I get the analogy of the Mongolian Swordsman wanting to be a Templar, and it's a good one, but that's not what this is.  Which indeed brings me to my point.

 

Kayle isn't a Dragoon!  His father wasn't a Dragoon, his step-father wasn't a Dragoon.  (resolved in a previous post)  It's a childhood aspiration.  I could have just made him a Lancer, like his father before him, and worked my way up the ladder to becoming a Dragoon, as the gameplay mechanics demands.  But instead I forced another role upon Kayle due to circumstance.  Does that mean he still doesn't have aspirations?  Of course not.  To play off of your analogy, let's say some kid from the slums who's great a basketball has dreams of becoming an astronaut.  That doesn't strike me as odd at all.  Does it mean he'll become and astronaut?  Not necessarily.  Does it mean he can't become one?  Absolutely not!  I am aware that there are in game restrictions to the Dragoon, and to be honest, Kayle has no idea what they are.  To him they are childhood stories, mythical figures that are rarely seen in public.  And that intrigues the hell out of him.

[Grott]

 

I hate to say this, as I am absolutely loving this discussion, but isn't this lore-abiding view of Dragoons a bit... elitist?  Trust me, I am fully aware of what an ironic statement that is.  But we have to look at the gameplay mechanic as well as backstory to make any of this work.  

 

To become a Dragoon, in game, you have to level your Lancer class.  I don't think anyone will disagree with that.  Uther, I read your backstory, and it's interesting as hell with one caveat: the only way that your story works (and by proxy, the Dragoon class) is if you were already a Dragoon before the events of the game.  All things being equal once ARR rolls out, how do we explain the masses of folks that have the same intentions and aspirations that you do (to become a Dragoon) without the backstory of them already being one?  I hate to point out the obvious, but excluding RP, Ishgard is not a starting city-state, and as far as mechanics go, if you want to fly into the Dragoon class swiftly, you're starting as a Lancer in Gridania.  Now, you can RP that you're a Dragoon in the meantime, but for me personally, that doesn't allow for RPvE opportunities, which is something that appeals to me.  It seems that taking a 'you don't know what it means to be a real Dragoon' approach to anyone who works towards that Job without a lore-centric background could potentially make things difficult in the future.  This is an honest question: How then, IC, would Uther explain the multitude of other players running around with the Dragoon class?  OOC,as far as I know the jobisn't some random scripted in-game event that selects random PC's to be worthy of the title, it's something that has to be initiated by the PC.  It is something to strive for.  Of course people are going to strive for it, that's not confusing to me at all.  I get the analogy of the Mongolian Swordsman wanting to be a Templar, and it's a good one, but that's not what this is.  Which indeed brings me to my point.

 

Kayle isn't a Dragoon!  His father wasn't a Dragoon, his step-father wasn't a Dragoon.  (resolved in a previous post)  It's a childhood aspiration.  I could have just made him a Lancer, like his father before him, and worked my way up the ladder to becoming a Dragoon, as the gameplay mechanics demands.  But instead I forced another role upon Kayle due to circumstance.  Does that mean he still doesn't have aspirations?  Of course not.  To play off of your analogy, let's say some kid from the slums who's great a basketball has dreams of becoming an astronaut.  That doesn't strike me as odd at all.  Does it mean he'll become and astronaut?  Not necessarily.  Does it mean he can't become one?  Absolutely not!  I am aware that there are in game restrictions to the Dragoon, and to be honest, Kayle has no idea what they are.  To him they are childhood stories, mythical figures that are rarely seen in public.  And that intrigues the hell out of him.

 

Well, you bring up some good points, and you're definitely not wrong. Your main point seems to be "How are all these non-Ishgard Dragoons walking around if they only come from Ishgard? And how are you going to react to it?" 

 

My answer to how I plan on seeing it from an IC perspective is that they fight like dragoons and have most likely trained with dragoons, but by actual definition they are not dragoons. They're not among the ranks of Ishgard's holy knights, despite them fighting in the same style. To aspire to learn from dragoons is a much more realistic approach than aspiring to be a dragoon. To the layman, the term "dragoon" would be associated with the fighting style they're known for. For instance, the average Joe would call any extremely skilled lancer who knows how to do the dragoon abilities a dragoon, while in actuality it refers to the specific unit of Ishgardian holy lancers... If that makes sense.

 

To go into a little more depth, if Uther meets someone who is playing the dragoon class but is not a servant of Halone, from Ishgard, or tested by the Dragon's Eye, and they say "I'm a dragoon." He'll interpret that as "I've studied the fighting style of dragoons." and not literally "I'm a dragoon." 

 

If I learn Shaolin Boxing, I can use that as a defining characteristic of myself as a fighter, but it doesn't make me a Shaolin Monk. It also doesn't make me any less of a fighter than actual Shaolin Monks if I've put the training into it. They just have a more all-encompassing view of their martial art.

 

That was kind of sloppy explanation, but I hope it made sense.

 

I have no problem with people not from Ishgard playing the dragoon class. I'm not going to run around yelling "DRAGOONS ARE ONLY FROM ISHGARD!" I will just interpret the character as someone learning from an exiled dragoon or some such. 

 

But really, when it comes down to it, the only way to become a full-fledged official dragoon according to the lore of the game is to stand before the Dragon's Eye in Ishgard. You have to be a soldier in their holy war, and by that note you have to worship Halone. Anything else, and you're not really a dragoon. You may be called a dragoon because you have the same physical training, sure. But as far as a life philosophy and personal code goes, you're just not. To put in another real-world analogy, I can practice kendo for years and years and be better than everyone else in the world. It doesn't make me a samurai.

 

At the risk of rambling some more, I'll just say there's a difference between the dragoon class and the lore dragoons. That being said, I'm not going to attack anyone for saying they were born in Limsa and they're a dragoon now. It's just one of those words that has sort of two definitions. It's all about context.

[Desmond Aryll]

We'll just have to wait and see how it is handled in-game. After all, I'm certain that anyone playing a Lancer with the intention of picking up the Dragoon job will not have to wait for Ishgard to open its gates to do it.

And chances are, the game will provide a lore-friendly reason why that is.

[Grott]

And chances are, the game will provide a lore-friendly reason why that is.

 

Maybe.

 

I'm not holding my breath.

[doctorgalactic]

We'll just have to wait and see how it is handled in-game. After all, I'm certain that anyone playing a Lancer with the intention of picking up the Dragoon job will not have to wait for Ishgard to open its gates to do it.

And chances are, the game will provide a lore-friendly reason why that is.

 

I completely agree, and definitely look forward to seeing how SE handles all of it.  My intentions for Kayle are to have him try to make a living and name for himself working in Ul'Dah, but his gaze is drawn north, both to his birthplace and the Tower of Ishgard.  He'll be a Gladiator, and probably a Paladin out of duty.  To himself, to his ideals, and for the ones he cares about.  But for him, eventually it means eventually taking the road north.