Languages?

[Remx]

Now I figure all the races will speak common, but it is also likely they would have their own languages as well. If this is posted someplace already please let me know, but my thoughts so far are based off the naming conventions.

 

Hyur = English

 

Elezen = French Creole

 

Roegadyn = German (or something along those lines)

 

As for Lalafell and Miqo'te, well I'm still working on that.

[Clover]

You forgot to mention that Hyur might speak English ^^;

As a non English speaker, English is not a "default" language to me. It's as foreign as French or German can be.

[Remx]

You forgot to mention that Hyur might speak English ^^;

As a non English speaker, English is not a "default" language to me. It's as foreign as French or German can be.

 

That is a very good point Clover.

[Aduu Avagnar]

given the naming conventions of the two, they would probably be syllabic languages rather, but that's just my view of it.

[Mtoto Wamoto]

Roegadyn do have their own language, tho it's considered an ancient tongue in the current setting of the world. You can read up on it here: http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Roegadyn

 

Miqo'te have certain sounds in their native speech that can't be replicated by the other races (it's a hissing noise or something). Other than that, there isn't anything to say they have their own language.

 

As far as Elezen and Hyur go...there is nothing currently which suggests that the two races (or even the Lalafell) have their own language either. I'd imagine it to be more of a regional-cultural thing rather than a race specific thing.

 

Of course, there's the whole thing with most everyone having the Echo which bypasses all language barriers in-game so there's a possibility we're just not seeing other languages since the echo auto-translates speech for us.

[Azelle]

I agree with Mtoto, only Roegadyn and Miqo'te have written info about them knowing a different language. For me all other races share a common tongue and unless voice acting suddenly give them accents, I keep to that.

 

Like Clover, english is a second language to me and used only on the internet hehe, so common tongue is english for characters only if the server is tagged as english. It looks like SE won't have language prefered servers though, so it makes things more complicated, we'll see all kind of different languages in the chat

[Ildur]

I do not think it makes sense for races to have the same native language, as they all have different cultural backgrounds. Different cultures have different necessities and different view on life, and that is reflected on the way they speak and think. It doesn't even make sense for the city-states to have the same main language, reallistically, since they all have very different cultures too. (Though you can handwave it due to the extentsion of economic relations and the lenght of history).

 

Though we could think that Eorzea works like ancient Greece in our world: culturally aligned city-states that also shared a common language (though even then there were some differences, like how some letters were written down). Unless stated otherwise by the lore, I'd say this is the case: the races have been together for so long they all have a common language now.

 

Now, for RP interactions: I always consider that the characters are really speaking in their own language. However, because learning a new language is a lot of work (and making one up, in the case of the devs, is probably even more taxing), everything gets 'translated' to english as far as the player is concerned. Just add a little emote to specify if you are suddenly speaking in ancient roegadyn. Otherwise, you run the risk of letting people out of the conversation when, in-character, they should be able to understand you.

[Naunet]

I really, really try to shy away from using a real world language as the native language for a race in an MMO. It's just way too much anachronism for me, especially when we already know that the Roegadyn have their own (ancient) language but it's certainly not any language from Earth. The miqo'te, too, are implied to have a native language, but I don't think it's a copy of a language from Earth either.

 

Basically, the idea in the OP just makes me really uncomfortable.

[FreelanceWizard]

I'm with Naunet here. I wouldn't try to assign RL languages to the languages in game; while there's obviously an intent by the devs to evoke certain "feels" for the languages and the people who use them by making them similar to RL languages, I don't think it's safe to say that they are those languages. After all, to the Japanese players, "Common" could just as easily be Japanese.

 

Instead, I'd really just consider that some races -- especially Roegadyn -- have "racial" languages, assume the existence of a "common tongue" that everyone knows, remember that

 

the Echo lets PCs understand all languages, and the main scenario quest assumes and basically requires that all PC adventurers have the Echo,

 

 

 

and suspend disbelief that what you're reading on a predominantly NA server with a US localized copy of the game is English.

[Naunet]

Instead, I'd really just consider that some races -- especially Roegadyn -- have "racial" languages, assume the existence of a "common tongue" that everyone knows, remember that

 

and suspend disbelief that what you're reading on a predominantly NA server with a US localized copy of the game is English.

 

Yea, and for those of us not playing a character with the Echo, we can have some interesting moments where they don't understand someone if they happen to slip into their native tongue hehe.

[Swift]

Now, for RP interactions: I always consider that the characters are really speaking in their own language. However, because learning a new language is a lot of work (and making one up, in the case of the devs, is probably even more taxing), everything gets 'translated' to english as far as the player is concerned. Just add a little emote to specify if you are suddenly speaking in ancient roegadyn. Otherwise, you run the risk of letting people out of the conversation when, in-character, they should be able to understand you.

 

This is what I've always done, especially at the table (either literally or virtually) for the Dungeons and Dragons campaigns I've been in--since, if anyone happens to be unfamiliar, each one of the 97234928392 different races has its own language, and each player character typically knows how to speak three, four, or more depending on their Intelligence score ;

 

If anything, one thing that the OP has pointed out is that the names and mannerisms of the difference races seem to have roots in/are influenced by the languages that were pointed out. It wouldn't be difficult to imagine that Elezen, for example, sounds a bit like French. It can help with trying to imagine the scene in your mind, and what it might sound like ^^d

[Ildur]

It's reasonable, I think, to assign an accent to the races because they probably do have one. But only and only in the case of the elezen we can use a real world accent, because the devs have stated that their pronounciation is french-like. We don't know what accent Miqo'te have, for instance, and saying that Roegadyn have, say, russian accents or whatever is a bit weird.

 

Basically, we shouldn't stick a real life language as a races' language. Just emote that you are speaking in a native language instead, and use proper english punctuation (or whatever language you are roleplaying on) to avoid confusions and stereotypes.

[Naunet]

It's reasonable, I think, to assign an accent to the races because they probably do have one. But only and only in the case of the elezen we can use a real world accent, because the devs have stated that their pronounciation is french-like. We don't know what accent Miqo'te have, for instance, and saying that Roegadyn have, say, russian accents or whatever is a bit weird.

 

Oh god, the disturbingly stereotypical Russian aman... they were a horror to watch.

[Swift]

We don't know what accent Miqo'te have, for instance [...]

 

Whateverrr do you mean? ;3

[Remx]

Thank you all for your input on this, it has been very helpful to me as I work on learning the FF lore and trying to build my character.

[Spiritual Machine]

I don't think it's okay to simply assume that a race has a native tongue that it knows of just because you believe it "makes more sense". This is a fantasy setting after all, with a very different history and timeline than the one that resulted in the conventions of the real world. It is hard to say whether such conventions can possibly be applicable.

 

If the lore doesn't say that they do, go with that. Don't go with "it doesn't say that they don't"--it doesn't say that the Hyur don't have their own language, or even that the Hyur don't have five languages. It's safer to simply not presume.

 

 

I'll show you why. Of all the races, only the Roegadyn and the Miqo'te have been mentioned in the lore to have a racial language.

 

 

Of the Roegadyn:

"...[M]any Roegadyn words have been forgotten after generations of disuse, with only popular terms being passed down through names. Every so often, however, a new (or should I say old) word is rediscovered in an ancient tome and added to the list for further generations to use (or ignore)."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61152-Roegadyn-Naming-Conventions

 

 

So their language is dead. The Roegadyn don't speak it at all, because much of it is lost to them.

 

 

Of the Miqo'te:

"The names of these tribes contained many sounds which were difficult to represent with the existing Eorzean alphabet; but the fact that there were the same exact number of tribes as letters in the Eorzean alphabet was taken as a sign that they were destined to make the new realm their home, and so assigned each tribe with a letter/sound that was closest to its name. Over time, this resulted in the changing of the pronunciation to more closely resemble the pronunciation of the Eorzean letter than that of the original word."

 

 

The Miqo'te came to Eorzea during the Fifth Umbral Era, at least fifteen hundred years prior to the present time. And when they came over, they began adopting the way of speaking that the locals used. If they had a language, it could very well be dead to them by now, as the original pronunciations of many of their words have been lost to time.

 

 

Of the Elezen, SE tells us that their names have French pronunciations, but they also tell us that the Elezen don't know why that is the case:

"One will also notice that some of the Elezen names appear familiar to those of the Hyur.

 

 

"Louis vs Louisoix

Eugene vs Eugenaire

Arthur vs Arthurioux

 

 

"Gwen vs Gwenolie

Hilda vs Hildie

 

 

"There are Eorzean historians who believe that these similarities in names may be proof that the two races are of similar origin─’open-minded’ Hyuran historians claiming the Elezen are a bastard race spun off from the Hyurs (and not the other way around). Elezen historians, on the other hand, simply deny any blood relation whatsoever."

 

 

Their naming conventions are ancient, but neither the Hyur nor the Elezen are mentioned as having conventions in some racial language that explain these conventions.

 

The Elezen have been on Eorzea for thousands of years, whereas the Hyur came onto the continent a thousand years ago. So it isn't even clear who was using the "common tongue" first. But it's stereotypical to consider the "common" or "default" language to be that of FFXIV's "human" race.

 

 

 

 

 

TLDR, the lore contradicts the idea of the five main races having unique spoken tongues among them, and the idea that the common tongue is the Hyuran tongue isn't even something that can be confirmed.

 

So it might be rather dodgy to roleplay that you can speak "Ancient Roegadyn," or to speak French in-game as an "Elezen language."

 

As for the Echo and how it allows people to understand the languages of other races, well... isn't that handy for understanding beastmen, dragons, and ancient runes, rather than common races that do regular business in every city-state?

[Grinner]

I should think that the races do have, or have had in the past, unique spoken languages. Not only do they have vastly different naming conventions, but some of the races have come from previously cut off areas, like the Miquo'te and Lalafell, right? 

 

So it would be logical that those races with no previous exposure to the others would historically speak a different language.

 

And the point of the original post was to suggest a way to add racial/cultural flavor, not demand conformation to real-world languages.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Addendum: Not every minute detail has to be spelled out in "the lore". There are some things that tend to be fairly universal and lend credibility to the setting.

[FreelanceWizard]

As for the Echo and how it allows people to understand the languages of other races, well... isn't that handy for understanding beastmen, dragons, and ancient runes, rather than common races that do regular business in every city-state?

 

Quite right, which is why I wasn't arguing for that. My larger point was that the Echo means that any linguistic issues are immaterial for PC adventurers (at least those who RP having the Echo, and RPing that you don't actually presents a whole other set of major issues). Basically, I argue that you can assume a common tongue exists, that (very nearly) every being speaks it, and for anyone who doesn't, the Echo makes it irrelevant in RP.

[Spiritual Machine]

I should think that the races do have, or have had in the past, unique spoken languages. Not only do they have vastly different naming conventions, but some of the races have come from previously cut off areas, like the Miquo'te and Lalafell, right? 

 

So it would be logical that those races with no previous exposure to the others would historically speak a different language.

 

And the point of the original post was to suggest a way to add racial/cultural flavor, not demand conformation to real-world languages.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Addendum: Not every minute detail has to be spelled out in "the lore". There are some things that tend to be fairly universal and lend credibility to the setting.

To your first and second paragraphs, yes, that would possibly be true for members of different races who have had no previous exposure to Eorzea's common tongue. OR their ancient languages are lost to some other common tongue in some other land. Not to mention that common has perhaps spread beyond Eorzea through trade with other continents by sea, which is something that happens.

 

It's hard to say. If you wanted to play a member of a race who spoke some "racial language," you'd probably be a very isolated member of that race, from another land entirely, and your own people in Eorzea wouldn't understand your tongue.

 

To your third paragraph, I didn't suggest that the OP demanded anything, nor did anyone. When you put it that way, it makes things sound rather more heated than they are, don't you think?

 

 

To your addendum, there are a lot of subjective ways to approach taking creative liberties with the lore, and roleplayers rarely agree on some kind of standard with that. However the fewer liberties one takes in the name of personal tastes, the more compatible their character's lore is with the world that the majority of roleplayers acknowledge. That's just a helpful rule of thumb.

 

That said, I think the lore's pretty clear on how racial languages are handled in Eorzea.

[FreelanceWizard]

Aha, I knew I'd find a reference I was looking for!

 

In the Roegadyn Naming Conventions, the devs indicate that there is a common tongue, and it's called (no surprise ), Eorzean. Specifically, it's referred to as "modern Eorzean," though I think that's more an indication that it's a living language than an admission that there were demarcated versions of the language similar to English.

 

The stance of that page is very much that any racial languages among the common Eorzean races (Roegadyn, Miqo'te, Hyur, Elezen, and Lalafell) are indeed dead if they existed at all, as Spiritual Machine noted. The post notes that books in the Roegadyn language are ancient and relatively rare, and the language itself suffers from generations of disuse. (I realize I'm repeating Spiritual Machine here. ) In practice, the Roegadyn language, such as it is, only continues on in (mostly Sea Wolf) names.

 

So... that's that, then, really, I think. There is a common tongue (Eorzean) and any racial languages that existed are dead and, it seems, largely forgotten by most Eorzeans. Perhaps scholars study them in the way Sanskrit and Coptic are studied.

[Grinner]

Thank you Freelance Wizard, that is informative.

 

The languages may be defunct, but there is still a lot of room for a unique cultural identity whether it be strictly racial, or regional, or a blend.

 

 

Regards