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The source of a bard's power is...?


Swift

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So, as I'm finally finishing up my first round of concepts for my character, all those little questions that I've been putting off until later are catching up with me.

 

I settled on the notion that I would like the character, himself, to go through the "natural" progression of Archer into Bard--that is to say, starting with an interest in both the strings of a bow and an instrument, but lacking in the ability to invoke the actual effects that the battle-singers of yore possessed. This will allow for an additional sense of progression in character development.

 

But... one thing I'm not quite sure on is what, exactly, separates the minstrels from the Bards.

 

It's been quite a while since 1.0, and so my memory of the story involved with the quest to unlock Bard is hazy at best (the fact that my party always demanded that everyone skipped the cutscene so we'd all be ready to fight didn't help, either), and I wasn't able to dig up any particularly helpful information about it on the interwebs. Which is why I came to you guys for help ^^;

 

Mostly what I'm looking for is: Is it some sort of arcane ability that allows Bards to inspire/enhance their allies, or is it simply because they're so good at playing that it's tantamount to blasting

from their harps? Is it supernatural prowess, extraordinary skill, or some weird combination of both?

 

Any sort of information you could provide regarding this matter would be appreciated ;D

 

In the event that this turns out to be like many other Game Mechanics vrs. RP Logic debates where it's simply open to interpretation, tell me what you think would be the best reasoning for the effects that bards have. Even the smallest amounts of inspiration will help me out a lot!

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I'm not too familiar with bards in Final Fantasy settings, but they seem very similar to D&D bards. In that system, a bard gets several different types of songs for buffing their allies. The general explanation given for the songs and their effects is that they raise the morale of affected allies, inspiring them to spectacular feats. Kinda like "Eye of the Tiger" in the Rocky movies. It just gets you pumped up and ready for a fight. Most of the D&D bardic music abilities are spell-like or supernatural effects, so they are magically based and don't work in areas where magic is blocked.

 

Also, what's the point of playing such a pretty game if you're going to skip all the cutscenes?

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I'm not too familiar with bards in Final Fantasy settings, but they seem very similar to D&D bards.  In that system, a bard gets several different types of songs for buffing their allies.  The general explanation given for the songs and their effects is that they raise the morale of affected allies, inspiring them to spectacular feats.  Kinda like "Eye of the Tiger" in the Rocky movies.  It just gets you pumped up and ready for a fight.  Most of the D&D bardic music abilities are spell-like or supernatural effects, so they are magically based and don't work in areas where magic is blocked.

 

Also, what's the point of playing such a pretty game if you're going to skip all the cutscenes?

 

I play D&D (mostly 3.5 and Pathfinder) with my buddies at college all the time, so I know exactly what you mean ^^

The idea of "supernatural songs" was what I was learning towards because of D&D, but I just wanted to make sure that FFXIV didn't explain it in detail somewhere.

 

And, as for cutscenes, I don't know. I always had half a mind to defy them, but I was worried about the fight starting without me and people getting killed/wiping because I was afk watching the scene. Thankfully 2.0 keeps the party inside a blue barrier until everyone it done watching the scene, so I can watch them to my heart's content ;D

 

And, thanks again for replying, by the way~

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Music inspires us, can make our hearts soar and our tears flow, without any magic involved. Now add to this the magical abilities of the fantasy bard, and you got your answer, I would think. ^^

 

I mean, imagine you're in the middle of a fight... it's getting rough.. and all of a sudden you hear Guile's Theme! Not only does it fit with everything, but it's also accompanied by a flow of magic strengthening you! Time to send the enemy home to be family men.

 

Obviously, this is a gross oversimplification but you get the idea: musical inspiration combined with magic buffs.

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Music inspires us, can make our hearts soar and our tears flow, without any magic involved. Now add to this the magical abilities of the fantasy bard, and you got your answer, I would think. ^^

 

I mean, imagine you're in the middle of a fight... it's getting rough.. and all of a sudden you hear Guile's Theme! Not only does it fit with everything, but it's also accompanied by a flow of magic strengthening you! Time to send the enemy home to be family men.

 

Obviously, this is a gross oversimplification but you get the idea: musical inspiration combined with magic buffs.

 

Right, that's the direction I was likely going with if it turned out that there was no concrete answer ;P

 

The explanation I'm writing toward is that to become a Bard, one must both be capable of harnessing the powers associated with White Magic and wield sufficient skill with an instrument in which to carry and project that magic. Just as a faulty gesture would ruin a mage's spell, nothing less than perfect playing will allow a Bard to "cast" their surges of inspiration. Therefore those without magical talent or the proper skill with their instrument of choice cannot become Bards--and so that's what makes them special: they're able to combine both magic and talent seamlessly.

 

As for the archery part of it...? Maybe it's a tradition? ;P

RP-wise, I don't see why someone couldn't play as a Bard and have nothing to do with archery.

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Music inspires us, can make our hearts soar and our tears flow, without any magic involved. Now add to this the magical abilities of the fantasy bard, and you got your answer, I would think. ^^

 

I mean, imagine you're in the middle of a fight... it's getting rough.. and all of a sudden you hear Guile's Theme! Not only does it fit with everything, but it's also accompanied by a flow of magic strengthening you! Time to send the enemy home to be family men.

 

Obviously, this is a gross oversimplification but you get the idea: musical inspiration combined with magic buffs.

 

Right, that's the direction I was likely going with if it turned out that there was no concrete answer ;P

 

The explanation I'm writing toward is that to become a Bard, one must both be capable of harnessing the powers associated with White Magic and wield sufficient skill with an instrument in which to carry and project that magic. Just as a faulty gesture would ruin a mage's spell, nothing less than perfect playing will allow a Bard to "cast" their surges of inspiration. Therefore those without magical talent or the proper skill with their instrument of choice cannot become Bards--and so that's what makes them special: they're able to combine both magic and talent seamlessly.

 

As for the archery part of it...? Maybe it's a tradition? ;P

RP-wise, I don't see why someone couldn't play as a Bard and have nothing to do with archery.

Yeah I kind of don't like the archery part of it myself and wish it weren't like that. I mean I know they wanted Bard to have something that it's class primarily came from but singing archers? As opposed to a singing pugilist, marauder or even gladiator....(weird). Well at least weird to me. I can't see folks in Gridania being archers  or conjurers and deciding "hey I wanna sing!" Just comes off as counteractive to living in the giant supernatural forest that you want to be all eco conscious. I mean wouldn't the Wood Wailers wail on someone who is causing sound pollution?

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This was explained in Macross 7, :). It's the passionate power of rock and roll! Spiritia/Sound Energy capable of generating and replenishing the spirit of all living things. The sheer will of someone singing at the mountain trying to move it with his song or trying to change the world through music is what separates a minstrel (professional) from bard (vocational).

 

Macross 7 clips of passionate singing and song energy

 

It's also likely that the connection to the Echo is what turns that passion into power. That's how I'd look at it, anyway.

 

... Actually, the more I think about the Final Fantasy world mixed in with Macross Idol/Songstress music sensibilities, the more I really like it, hehe.

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I've never done the 1.x job quest for Bard, and we have no idea what the ARR one is going to look like, so... I guess I'd go with "we don't know." Mechanically, it requires some knowledge of Conjury, so I'd assume it involves a certain level of command over Aether.

 

From the official site, all it says is, "In time, their impassioned songs came to hold sway over the hearts of men, inspiring their comrades to great feats and granting peace unto those who lay upon the precipice of death." I'd guess that, given the requirements, it involves boisterous music and managing to slip some Aetheric effects in there at the same time.

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~snip

As for the archery part of it...? Maybe it's a tradition? ;P

RP-wise, I don't see why someone couldn't play as a Bard and have nothing to do with archery.

 

You've nailed it there.  Based on what I could find the Bardic tradition may have started only about 100 years ago during the Autumn War at the Second Battle of Tinolqa.  Grabbing a quote from this page (and looking for another source...) 

 

It was during these days that the archers of Gridania would prove their value beyond the bow, singing songs of heroism and glory in the field to bolster the allied troops. It is said that this gave birth to the bard tradition. The archers of Gridania excelled at combat in the dense vegetation of the Black Shroud, and their arrows inflicted heavy casualties on the Ala Mhigans


In searching for another source for confirmation, I found this thread, which ironically sites it's source to a now defunct page right here on HRC.  It's the story of East End that can be gleaned from a historian during the Monk AF quest.

 

That being said, I certainly think it's an interesting shift in conventional tradition of bards, but it does force a bit of storytelling on the the player, especially Archer's that want to excel without singing :) I don't want to get off topic, but my assumption is that there will be some additional branching classes in the near future (i.e. Arcanist can become either Summoner or Scholar) that will allow Archers further possibilities (perhaps Ranger, Beastmaster?) As to why they locked down Bards to an Archer job, it seems to follow lore and tradition, albeit unfortunate for PC's who don't want to roll an Archer for the Bardic talents.

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I guess the idea of a harp hurting people with magical notes floating in their face (FF IV) or even directed sound vibrations (Ff Tactics) is a bit weird... Not that a harp/bow hybrid is less weird, but at least it's also kinda cool? o_O

 

Also, can't argue with the passionate power of Rock!

 

 

EDIT: Bah, screw this, I can't find the right video :(

Wanted to ink some good Sharon Apple stuff from Macross Plus...

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I'd reiterate what people have said already, although it is more of an assumption than a lore-backed conclusion,

 

Bards would likely gain their powers from the same place White Mages or Conjurers gain their power from, which I am pretty sure is the elements. Correct me if I am wrong, though.

 

Bards would use a form of elemental magic to empower their songs. I'd even go as far as saying that it is easier for a bard to harness elemental magic through song/music than to just straight out cast magic spells.

 

This is all speculation, but as mechanically the class performs as a buffer class, and requires a 30 archer and 15 Conjurer to unlock the job of Bard to begin with, I think it is reasonable to attribute elemental magic to empower their songs.

 

Some of you ladies and gents who know the lore better than myself can correct me if I am wrong. :)

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I'm going with the power of love and friendship. Though the Macross cross over is interesting.

 

In all seriousness though... think about how music makes you feel. Everyone has some songs that seem to bring out latent energy in them, or that calm them down, and many other emotions too. A good bard could likely pick and choose songs that the majority of people would respond to in a wanted way. In turn, the people hearing those songs would be inspired/get a second wind/etc.

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I think the best thing to do some cases is to accept the world you are playing in, which is Hydaelyn, and in this specific case where the bards come from the archers by tradition. Unfortunately for those who wish it, its not a European setting, or Middle Earth, or elsewhere, where those skills might be separate. Sometimes you really just have to role play in the world you are given and accept certain things in that world :). Its kind of like saying "I want to be a Nuclear Engineer, but why does it have to come from the Academical background? Why not from Oil-Changer, or 7/11 Nightshift Clerk class? I could have studied books on my own after work..." The things they do during their time as an archer, the hymns they might sing while cutting shafts, the particular finger timing associated with the draw and loosing of the bowstring, all possibly accumulate at a point where those archery skill readily translate with a bit of additional effort into wielding the power of music. Polishing shields or pounding sides of beef in a freezer may just not have the same preparatory effect for becoming a Bard within the land of Eorzea :P .

 

After you learn the bard trade and maybe don't want to string another bow again? Up to you, probably something one could role play...the video linked below for the Bard's quest "Doing it the Bard Way" even shows a bard that can no longer use his bow to attack things :thumbsup:

 

Playing a bard is in my (eventual) sights...I'm glad this conversation started :D!

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Not to slip a tangent in here, but there's another angle to consider in the "why archer?" question. As a bard, you wouldn't want to wear heavy armor. You need the freedom to sing and, if necesary, dance. Also, the connection to conjury makes sense because you need to be able to add a touch of magic to your songs which support your allies. It follows that you aren't too far removed from a battle medic in some extreme cases. Again, you need the freedom of movement.

 

So, you are singer with support abilities meant for battle. And when you sing, you might as well be waving a read flag, "Hey, look! I'm the idiot with the harp! Come kill me!" Wouldn't you want to be able to defend yourself? But hand-to-hand combat is a bad idea. You don't have any armor, remember? And your primary talent in magic is that of conjury and healing. I'd personally want to be able to defend myself from far away. Much easier to sing that way, then when someone is up in my face, putting his fist in my gut.

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