The Mamool Ja

[Havoc Snow]

So there was/is a lot of rabble over Lightning herself showing up in Eorzea, but after doing some research trying to find as much lore as I could on the different Beastmen I found a small bit of info on the Mamool Ja that might imply that they beat Lightning to the jump when it comes to interdimensional travel.

Recently found after the Calamity, these foreign beastmen speak of different worlds, eastern empires, and astral candescences - whatever those are. Intent though, that their tribe survive, these other worldly refugees have set up camp near Camp Bronze Lake, and have even been seen showing an interest in the summoning arts. Could it be that these beastmen have brought with them a primal of their own?

As you can see the first sentence implies a great deal that they are from Vana'diel, such as mentioning different worlds, an eastern empire (Aht Urhgan), and the Astral Candescences. This almost blatantly says that the Mamool Ja are not merely a Beastman race that resemble one from FFXI, they ARE the Mamool Ja from Vana'diel.

 

Sorry if this was already been discussed, I did a search to find any posts that might talk about it but couldn't find any, and wanted to discuss what people thought of creatures crossing over directly from Vana'diel into Eorzea, and if this only further opens the door to things like people playing an Elezen as an Elvaan who somehow crossed over from Vana'diel, or something similar.

[sanguineFenrir]

My experience with FFXI amounts to trying out the free trial about a week ago (and it didn't run that well to boot), but I've always had an interest in multiple worlds and such. If we're given more lore on this, I can see myself trying to figure out ways to weave it subtly into my character(s)' backstories. It wouldn't be anything too blatant, but it might help give explanation to a few events, and perhaps future backstory for possible alts. The Vana'diel aspect does open up a lot of potential for ex-FFXI players, as I've seen quite a few that recreated their old characters in the new game.

[Gideon Aryeh]

I hope some mammalian Beastmen get added at some point, and I mean prominent ones that have their own primals. It'd be damn awesome to see Tigermen/Wolfmen/Bearmen/Panthermen or Lionmen beastmen.

 

Hell I'd sure as hell love to see Tigermen/Lionmen with Gilgamesh as their primal for example. They could be all Klingon Warrior's Code and Honor like.

[Havoc Snow]

Hell I'd sure as hell love to see Tigermen/Lionmen with Gilgamesh as their primal for example.

The problem with that is Gilgamesh was already announced to be in the game with his own story arc, so he's not a possible candidate for Primal. I doubt we'll ever see a feline type Beastmen because it's too much like the Miqo'te and would essentially imply there is a very thin line between Miqo'te and Beastmen, though a Lupine type Beastman is a possibility, however I remember in one of Merri's lore posts there was apparently a documented Lycanthropy disease in the setting which might discount the possibility of that happening too. Of course this is just following the idea that in order for it to be a Mammal type Beastmen race it needs to resemble a real world mammal, they could just as easily make a race that was just mammal-like, such as having fur, fangs, a tail, claws, etc, while not directly resembling a specific animal (but maybe being an amalgam of numerous real world animals). I'm willing to bed that as we get access to more parts of Eorzea, we'll probably encounter new types of Beastmen.

 

Of course this is a bit off top from the whole dimension jumping discussion, except the part about Gilgamesh since that's been his niche since he was introduced to the franchise.

[Jackscarab]

Curious. I usually trust Eorzeapedia, but in this case I'd like to see a citation. Are there in fact Mamool Ja NPCs who reference Vana'diel in some way?

 

If there are, hey, great. It shows that other beings can cross over into Eorzea from other worlds.

 

It would also explain why there are so many FFXI and FFXII monsters suddenly running around.

 

And if that is so, then it's easy to extrapolate into something interesting.

 

Viera exist in FFXII. Mirrorknights, mantises, furry three-jawed crocodiles and other monsters exist in FFXII. Those same monsters now exist in FFXIV; therefore, precisely nothing prevents viera from showing up.

 

Fans who wanted viera as a new playable race could very well have a canon explanation for them.

 

Could.

[Havoc Snow]

Monsters have always been cross franchise. Almost every single monster in FFXIV has been in almost every other game in the franchise, and the similarities in appearance are easily explained by them merely wanting to create a standard appearance from one MMO to another as opposed to completely redesigning every monster, so in my opinion unless otherwise stated I'm more likely to believe any monster we see is a native to the cosmology of Hydaelyn. I use cosmology instead of world simply because we know that not every creature is from Hydaelyn, the Voidsent specifically.

 

As far as the Viera go, one explanation could be that somehow they dimension jump from Ivalice but I think this would be a HUGE kick in the teeth to the fanbase. I think it is more likely to think hat the race will either be from an isolated part of Eorzea, or that they are new immigrants from another part of Hydaelyn (just like every other race was except for the Elezen before coming to Eorzea).

 

As far as a source, I'm not sure where they got the information to be honest since the only Mamool Ja I've seen in game was one or two in Limsa Lominsa and I never bothered to talk to them, however the quote I posted above does not specifically say the Mamool Ja directly claim to be from Vana'diel, just that they speak of other worlds, not other lands, and reference a lot of things that would link them to Vana'diel and Aht Urhgan.

[Gideon Aryeh]

Hell I'd sure as hell love to see Tigermen/Lionmen with Gilgamesh as their primal for example.

The problem with that is Gilgamesh was already announced to be in the game with his own story arc, so he's not a possible candidate for Primal. I doubt we'll ever see a feline type Beastmen because it's too much like the Miqo'te and would essentially imply there is a very thin line between Miqo'te and Beastmen, though a Lupine type Beastman is a possibility, however I remember in one of Merri's lore posts there was apparently a documented Lycanthropy disease in the setting which might discount the possibility of that happening too. Of course this is just following the idea that in order for it to be a Mammal type Beastmen race it needs to resemble a real world mammal, they could just as easily make a race that was just mammal-like, such as having fur, fangs, a tail, claws, etc, while not directly resembling a specific animal (but maybe being an amalgam of numerous real world animals). I'm willing to bed that as we get access to more parts of Eorzea, we'll probably encounter new types of Beastmen.

 

Of course this is a bit off top from the whole dimension jumping discussion, except the part about Gilgamesh since that's been his niche since he was introduced to the franchise.

 *nods*

 

I'd be fine with Bearmen as well or the amalgam that you mentioned

[sanguineFenrir]

I'd be interested in wolf-like beastmen, and Fenrir as well. While I enjoy the Mi'qote, I'd be more interested in playing a lycanthrope. I'm surprised there may have been documented cases in this world, and I'm almost tempted to go research it.

[Havoc Snow]

I'd be interested in wolf-like beastmen, and Fenrir as well. While I enjoy the Mi'qote, I'd be more interested in playing a lycanthrope. I'm surprised there may have been documented cases in this world, and I'm almost tempted to go research it.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=1059

 

Here is the link to the thread I had mentioned, scroll down a bit and you'll see the reference to Lycanthropy. Apparently it is mentioned in a Leve, however the link is broken you can still get the name and probably google it.

 

As far as a mammal beastman goes, I'd be inclined to say that if they do make one it won't resemble any real world animal. The Amalj'aa are reptiles, but they don't have any traits where you can say "Oh they're geckos, or aligators" or whatever. Same with the Ixali, they're birdmen but they resemble no bird in particular, they just have traits that distinguish them as such. With that in mind, any possible mammal beastman would likely resemble some kind of predator species, but nothing that could be associated directly to a real animal. There is a good reason for this too, when designing a race you want there to be enough similarities where someone can associate it to something without overlapping it. If they made a beastrace that was like a Tiger for example, people would just call it the tiger race and not whatever it is actually called. With the Amalj'aa or the Ixali we tend to remember their names and use them often, as opposed to saying "You know, those lizard guys," simply because they are reptiles but don't resemble an actual reptile we can associate them to.

 

On an on topic note however, something occurred to me. The Goblins are the Qiqirn were both originally from FFXI, but there is no implication that they are the same race as the ones found in Vana'diel. Even the Giants resemble the Gigans a great deal and the new name may only be so they are easy to associate to common mythology, but again nothing suggests they are the same race. Assuming the entry for the Mamool Ja is accurate, I wonder why of all the races they decided the Mamool Ja would be the one thing that actually came from Vana'diel.

[AFriendOfAFriend]

I'd be interested in seeing the Viera and Ronso. The latter in particular could be fun, seeing as they would physically appear to be an offshoot of the Miqo'te or Roegadyn (or both).

 

To the gentleman who suggested Fenrir, he's already been kinda sorta confirmed in the form of ARR concept art (he also looks almost identical to his XI counterpart).

[Sounsyy]

Hmm, I only saw a few Mamool Ja npcs in Limsa and all of La Noscea. I don't recall them making any reference to anything of Vana'diel. The Mamool Ja outside the Arcanist Guild simply asks for a bigger quill to write with. There's one doing some sort of trade near the Adventurer's Guild I think. He wanted to see the merchandise before showing his gil. The Qiqirn he was bartering with wouldn't show him any merchandise until he saw gil. There was maybe one other but I don't recall it saying anything. So I'm very curious on what basis that description was made?

 

Also...

As far as the Viera go, one explanation could be that somehow they dimension jump from Ivalice but I think this would be a HUGE kick in the teeth to the fanbase. I think it is more likely to think hat the race will either be from an isolated part of Eorzea, or that they are new immigrants from another part of Hydaelyn (just like every other race was except for the Elezen before coming to Eorzea).

 

Elezen are not native to Eorzea either. They were just the first race to come to Eorzea from the North back in the time when the Twelve still roamed Eorzea. Theoretically, only the beastmen are actually native to Eorzea because they claim to be the children of the Primals, and the Primals were made by the Twelve.

[sanguineFenrir]

The image AFriendOfAFriend linked is now my desktop background. And I'd also like to see Ronso, perhaps more so than werewolves... especially considering the events of X and its sequel.

 

On topic: I did not know that the Elezen aren't Eorzean natives. Having different continents or regions does open up a lot of potential for immigration, although I do wonder how new races would be handled--everyone would have to level a new character if they wished to play a new race, because there is no "race change."

[AFriendOfAFriend]

Q: What kind of new races are you considering adding, and will mixed races ever be introduced?

A: I don't think we'll have mixed races for a while.

 

If and when we implement additional races, I would like them to be different from what we have now. That said, the longer we wait, the more difficult it becomes for players to start over from scratch, even if they'd like to play as a new race, so we'll have to keep that in mind as well.

 

Viera are quite popular around the world, so we're considering them. Personally, I would prefer something more beastly, so a new race's appearance may vary greatly depending on if you choose a male or a female.

 

From Live Letter V.

 

Yoshi P's atleast aware of that very problem, so hopefully it won't be too long for new races to be added.

[Azthran]

This is a very exciting idea and I think it wouldn't be too far of a stretch for them to be from Vana and I think that FFXI and FFXIV might take place in the same mythos/universe as each other just like how FFXII and the Tactics games are part of the same mythos/universe and I think FFXIII, FFXV, and... fack I think it's called Type-0. It was a psp game that only released in japan and I forget the name! Anyways I remember a while back when 13 was still being worked on that those 3 games were part of the same mythos/universe.

 

With that said I'd also like to explore another possibility! Could it be possible that the Mamool Ja are just from another part of Hydaelyn that maybe use different terminology? Eorzea to them could be like living on a completely different world. You also made mention of a Great Empire to the east. Now this could be reference to Aht Urhgan but it could also mean the Garlean Empire since the realm of Eorzea is found on Hydaelyn's western most continent along with islands. So that leaves 2 more great continents along with anything else that might be out there.

 

I still think it would be a little fantastic if the Mamool Ja actually did come from Vana though and that raises the question about the goblins and such.

[Havoc Snow]

This is a very exciting idea and I think it wouldn't be too far of a stretch for them to be from Vana and I think that FFXI and FFXIV might take place in the same mythos/universe as each other just like how FFXII and the Tactics games are part of the same mythos/universe and I think FFXIII, FFXV, and... fack I think it's called Type-0. It was a psp game that only released in japan and I forget the name! Anyways I remember a while back when 13 was still being worked on that those 3 games were part of the same mythos/universe.

 

With that said I'd also like to explore another possibility! Could it be possible that the Mamool Ja are just from another part of Hydaelyn that maybe use different terminology? Eorzea to them could be like living on a completely different world. You also made mention of a Great Empire to the east. Now this could be reference to Aht Urhgan but it could also mean the Garlean Empire since the realm of Eorzea is found on Hydaelyn's western most continent along with islands. So that leaves 2 more great continents along with anything else that might be out there.

 

I still think it would be a little fantastic if the Mamool Ja actually did come from Vana though and that raises the question about the goblins and such.

There is WAAAAAAAY too much to suggest that they are merely from another continent, everything they mention in that writeup is directly from FFXI, and besides Garlemald is directly to the east of Eorzea, to the point that they are actually connected by a narrow land bridge, which means if the Mamool Ja were from another continent Garlemald would be the "Empire to the North" or the "Empire to the West" or maybe even south if there is anything further north than Garlemald. Nope, I'm 99.9% certain (leaving a very tiny amount of room for error) that the empire they are referring to is Aht Urhgan and the other world is Vana'diel. As far as the two worlds existing in the same universe, based on info we've been given ALL worlds in EVERY Final Fantasy game exists in the same universe, or at least multiverse. No, I think if anything it could be best said that Eorzea is a parallel universe of Vana'diel, but even that feels a bit like a stretch.

 

I can't seem to find a source for the information, so it may not actually be true and they may just be a new Beastmen race added from FFXI, but not actually from Vana'diel, and the information provided was just a joke. I'll have to see if I can't find them when phase 4 begins and find out more info.

[AFriendOfAFriend]

Something I found curious was a number of the Voidsent you encounter being identical to/reminiscent of the Kindred from XI. Coupled with the appearance of the Goblins, Qiqirn and Mamool Ja it does lead one to believe that the connection to Vana'diel is more than a bit tenuous. I've read discussions where people theorized that while the different FF worlds are indeed separate, they share the space between - i.e., the Void. It's shown that the boundaries between the Void and physical realm can be messed with, so it's not outside the realm of belief that a cataclysmic event such as Bahamut Megaflaring everything to hell could rip a hole straight through the Void and into another world.

[Sounsyy]

There is WAAAAAAAY too much to suggest that they are merely from another continent, everything they mention in that writeup is directly from FFXI. Nope, I'm 99.9% certain (leaving a very tiny amount of room for error) that the empire they are referring to is Aht Urhgan and the other world is Vana'diel.

 

I can't seem to find a source for the information, so it may not actually be true and they may just be a new Beastmen race added from FFXI, but not actually from Vana'diel, and the information provided was just a joke. I'll have to see if I can't find them when phase 4 begins and find out more info.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say that this information is unfounded until a source comes forward. I made a point of talking to every Mamool Ja NPC I found in and around Limsa Lominsa. Even slaughtered a few outside Bronze Lake for good measure. Really wishing I had grabbed screenshots of their chat bubbles now though. But I don't recall them making any mention of anything relating to Vana'diel. Almost certain. But I will definitely be investigating and screenshotting when P4 comes out lol. Just to be sure.

 

I don't think I'd mind if SE threw in this little easter egg to give XI players a laugh, but I'm avidly against Hydaelyn and Vana'diel being the same world. Despite their core similarities to XI, XIV is it's own game with its own lore that is almost wholly incompatible with XI's lore.

[Havoc Snow]

I don't think I'd mind if SE threw in this little easter egg to give XI players a laugh, but I'm avidly against Hydaelyn and Vana'diel being the same world. Despite their core similarities to XI, XIV is it's own game with its own lore that is almost wholly incompatible with XI's lore.

I actually completely agree with this, I believe even if it turns out to be true that the Mamool Ja are the same beastmen from Vana'diel, that that only means they managed to escape to Eorzea somehow through a rift in the Void or something, not that Eorzea = Vana'diel, or that Vana'diel is located somewhere else on Hydaelyn. If that were the case then why are the Miqo'te not Mithra, or the Roegadyn Galka? Even if there are similarities between the two races they are drastically different. Miqo'te last the distinct cat-like nose that the Mithra had, as well as much smaller eyes. The Roegadyn have normal body proportions and lack a tail and animal-like nose, where the Galka had both tail and animal-like nose, and had enormous arms and tiny legs by comparison. Even the Elezen and Elvaan don't completely match, since the Elvaan had much longer arms and legs when compared to the length of their torso, and much small heads in proportion to their bodies.

 

 

As far as the Goblins and Qiqirn go, I actually think it's stated they are natives of Eorzea, there's no attempt to compare them beyond looks to their Vana'diel counterparts.

[Sounsyy]

As far as the Goblins and Qiqirn go, I actually think it's stated they are natives of Eorzea, there's no attempt to compare them beyond looks to their Vana'diel counterparts.

 

Was actually just looking for this. An NPC named Vavaki has a few things to say about Goblins. Apparently they've always been around Eorzea but in much smaller numbers, but recently (circa 1472) many have left their hiding places to travel into Eorzea's cities in what the Goblins call "The Great Pilgrimage."

 

As for Qiqirn, there isn't much information on them, but they do appear to be native to Vylebrand. And they've at least been in Eorzea as long as Limsa has existed since Qiqirn used to be vital parts of pirate crews. They also have claws that are adapted to slice clean through Sahagin scales. So to me that suggests they've been present in Eorzea long enough to evolve to their surroundings.