Main Storyline: A Matter of Taste, or RP Etiquette?

[Taeh Niumoenwyn]

I think my approach is a bit different to most other people, that doesn't mean I think my approach is better or that anyone else's is worse. I'm just different.

 

I choose to actively roleplay through the main story because I like to stay in-character as much as possible and basically I enjoy thinking that my character is the 'hero' of the game. However, as has rightly been pointed out, this could put my character at odds with other characters at different points in the main story.

 

Therefore I consider this my personal roleplay journey. I don't assume that anything my character knows or has accomplished as part of the main story would also be part of another character's roleplay world. Yes this does make it a bit tricky at times but I let myself be guided by the characters I'm interacting with at the time.

[Clover]

So the situation is: epic things are happening in the game, but it'd be silly for a single person to have done it all (at least it'd be if that person is planning to RP with other people). In that case, does that mean that no one can ever get involved in epic stories, or that every player has to come up with their own personal adventures if they want any? As I'm seeing the RP so far, everyone seems to be RPing their own thing, without any common story or anything that's actually happening in the world (RP-wise).

 

My approach would be for someone to organize and master events related to the main storyline, where many people could participate. It'd be cool if this community could write its own version of the events; that'd make our story more alive, dynamic, and even meaningful in the world we're playing in. For example, the day Ifrit came back to life. It could be a real event hat could affect many people, either directly or indirectly (unless the players choose to completely ignore it, but why would anyone refuse a chance to RP, even if it's just RPing how your character feels regarding certain rumours about a possible danger?)

 

Perhaps this worked better on the Aion server I used to play in because the Spanish community was smaller, and the server was a private one focused solely on RPing. I just remember that we had epic conflicts and wars that involved every character who wanted or could be a part of it. We had a living, common story going on and it was really wonderful. Even if your character wasn't a soldier and didn't directly participate in the wars, they still knew that a war was going on, thus that would still affect them in any way.

 

I'd personally like FFXIV RP to be the same, to have some common stories that will affect a majority, or at least a large group of players.

 

Just my two cents!

 

 

 

Edit: As for the Echo, if anyone has it and ever wants to look into my characters' memories, just let me know! I'm not opposed to it; on the contrary, I find it interesting.

[LiadansWhisper]

I'm actually toying with the idea of leaving it up in the air as to whether or not Theodric is actually blessed with the power of the Echo. Perhaps he truly does bear the burden of such a gift, or maybe he's just incredibly luckily not to have been captured and subjected to the Tempering process? He's not exactly a pure and righteous hero, but he seeks to atone for his past and it would make a lot of sense for him to offer his aid in keeping the Primals and their minions away from civilisation. I just don't want him to walk away unscathed or as a celebrated hero but at the same time I don't want him to be Tempered either. It's tricky!

 

IMO, you could definitely make it an open question IC. For some reason, he just can't be Tempered, but he doesn't know why. He doesn't have any of the other characteristics of the Echo -- just the inability to be Tempered. Sure, some will assume it's due to the Echo, but it's a permanently open question ICly (and one you needn't answer OOCly, either ). This is especially workable in lore because the Echo seems to manifest outside the control of those who have it; this characteristic makes it a perfect "Schroedinger," so to speak, where you can avoid making any definitive statement about having it or not while simultaneously being compatible with the storyline and giving others an opportunity to ponder and discuss ICly.

 

Thanks for the advice! I'll likely go down that route, then. It's definitely the best compromise as it leaves thing open without the need to go into specifics or to have my character drop everything to rush off to Vesper Bay and lead a life of secrecy aiding the Scions.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Ifrit himself believes that the person who can't be tempered belongs to another god and that is why they are immune.

 

There are a lot of gods out there.

[Magellan]

@ Clover: while your idea would be awesome, FC's and LS's can barely agree on storylines to run, let alone entire communities. People simply desire far too much different things from their RP for something so large scale to work. However, 2-3 guilds can, with organization, create a pretty meaningful storyline for them. But to try and force a server-wide RP isn't fair for those who don't want that particular RP in their storyline.

 

@OP: I maintain the single player storyline was written for gamers, not RPers. To try and force it into your RP usually flat out won't work, for reasons everyone have already illustrated.

[cuideag]

I tend to consider the main storyline OOC for Jajara, as she is not at all magically gifted with the crystal etc etc. Just a regular ol' lalafell with a thing for digging up rocks and beating up wildlife. (sort of.)

Sidequests I do consider somewhat IC, though, because Jajara would be the type of person to help the smallfolk. They're her kind of people! So if someone asks her to go fetch some bat wings or frog poison or whatever, she'll probably be obliged to do it just because it would seem rude not to.

 

"Well, so long as I'm going out thataways... Why not?"

 

I don't have much of a problem if anyone does actually want to RP as a The Big Hero(es) because, well, they're paying to have fun and if that's fun for them then who am I to tell them to stop? BUT if encountered IC with such claims, Jajara would probably be veeeeery skeptical. No one has to accept anyone's RP if they don't agree with it but as long as everyone can observe some basic RP etiquette (like you can't force another character to think/feel/behave certain ways) then I see no reason why it would make problems for the greater community.

 

Just might end up with a lot of people with some really tall tales. And hey, they have to start somewhere, right?

[Asyria]

So, I didn't read the whole thread because there's a lot in there... but I'll just leave my opinion here.

 

First thing is... the whole I Am The One is straight out. It's arrogant and disrespectful, among hundreds of RPers, to say "I'm the one, I'm the hero, you guys are supporting cast for My story." Good way to alienate a community.

Of course, one can do it privately with a few friends, pretending to be The Hero Party (the one we've seen in the videos) but that's not something to share with the whole community.

I think everyone agrees on this.

 

However, I tend to view my character's progression in the game, as an indicator of their IC progression, in some ways. Take my character Jeanette, for example. She started our as a thaumaturge and a weaver apprentice, but as reached a point where she mingles with a higher class of Ul'dan citizens (good for business!). This mirrors the fact that in-game I've been through... the level 15 story quest and events. You'll never hear say she's done those things... but for me it mirrors her IC rise in society through her actions... without going into specifics.

 

So instead of saying things like "I single-handedly saved that village" (something that happens in game.. to everyone... through story quests) you can say "I was instrumental in saving that caravan" (something that doesn't happen in-game and can happen a lot more than once).

 

Not only does this not rob others of having their own heroic deeds, it also follows a certain sense of accomplishment that more or less fits the in-game progression, which I kinda like (I'm not one to play a purely non-adventurer type in a RPG).

 

Lastly, think of large-scale events like the Battle of Carteneau. That was a LOT of people in there. Enough for every Legacy character to say "I was there". If they'd remember, that is! But anything that would mobilize a whole Grand Company or something, I think it's fair for a character to say "I was there, I participated in this" as long is it doesn't go into the realms of "I killed the big evil."

[Levi Druthers]

I'm personally not imagining that the main storyline is actually happening to my character. As you commented, that'd be chaotic.

 

Regarding the primals, it'd be very cool if someone ever organized an event in which an army of RPed characters have to actually fight one. We don't need the game story, we can make our own and play it our way!

 

I have gotten into the habit of not seeing my characters as part of the main storyline in games.  maybe spatters of it.  Because, I mean, if that's the case there are thousands of people going though the same thing.  That's what bothers me with main stories saying you are a "chosen one" or "special" ... like so many other people.

 

So I have a basic slate and just build it up from there.  Boring I know 

 

As for the primals, I can totally see a group hearing rumors of one and seeing if it is true.

[Clover]

@ Clover: while your idea would be awesome, FC's and LS's can barely agree on storylines to run, let alone entire communities. People simply desire far too much different things from their RP for something so large scale to work. However, 2-3 guilds can, with organization, create a pretty meaningful storyline for them. But to try and force a server-wide RP isn't fair for those who don't want that particular RP in their storyline.

But, couldn't anything be organized in this community? This is the point where all RPers meet, and the place for events to be organized, after all. Couldn't this community serve as a chronicle of what's happening in the world? (What's happening in the world = the story we the RPers create).

 

Maybe I'm being naive, but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to live in a world where things are actually happening, no matter how far or close they are from our characters. The lore itself really stops after the calamity; it'd be sad if that were the only real event all characters can share and react to, an event from the past.

[Vinter]

I think it's fine to weave it into your storyline if you're smart about it. For instance the assault on Castrum Novum. Instead of being in the infiltration party that fought Nael Van Darnus, you were one of the hundreds of Grand Company soliders who took part in the diversion. That's perfectly fine and plausible.

[Boo]

I agree with most posts here about the thing with "a nameless hero" having saved the day, but then again that nameless hero is pretty popular, meaning that your character while walking down the streets of Ul'dah might just hear a merchant talk about how "  " saved him and his goodies. That'd make things awkward, or I might just be overthinking it.

 

On the subject of Echo, primals and wars:

-How in the bloody hell did the Immortal Flame manage to take down Ifrit multiple times (with many sacrifices yes) without having their whole army tempered as soon as they were in front of the beast? I mean, Ifrit could just transform them all into mindless slave. What did they do to avoid being tempered?

 

-What about characters without Echo, how would they be supposed to fight a Primal, if an RP event like that ever happened? My (somewhat corrupted) character doesn't have the echo, if she ever met a primal then it's game over. Unless there's a god that can temper you without taking your brain, or I'll have to come up with a ridiculous backstory such as "Oh yeah she already died once and dead people can't be tempered!", I don't really want that lol.

[FreelanceWizard]

But, couldn't anything be organized in this community? This is the point where all RPers meet, and the place for events to be organized, after all. Couldn't this community serve as a chronicle of what's happening in the world? (What's happening in the world = the story we the RPers create).

 

Maybe I'm being naive, but I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to live in a world where things are actually happening, no matter how far or close they are from our characters. The lore itself really stops after the calamity; it'd be sad if that were the only real event all characters can share and react to, an event from the past.

 

I think there's a lot of value in chronicling the storylines we create as players. There's also a place for alliances between FCs/LSs to create large storylines that affect multiple people. The events of those can show up here in Tonberry's Lantern, for instance, and people can react to them (or not) as they like.

 

However, trying to advance the storyline as set forth by SE is problematic, as not every RPer comes to this site, and no RPer has any real authority over any other. If the RPC had a big storyline about Ifrit being summoned and defeated, you'd have some people who'd participate, some who'd be left out due to RL reasons who'd be unhappy that they couldn't do something their characters would do, some who would refuse to participate on principle at it's the RPC asserting authority over other players and lore (by declaring that Ifrit is now dead in its canon), some who would refuse to participate due to OOC drama, some who would refuse to participate because you almost have to make some subset of players the "heroes" and they'd be displeased about who those people were, some who would refuse to participate because of lore reasons, and a large number of people who would say, "What the heck's the RPC and who are they to say Ifrit has been defeated?"

 

And on to something completely different...

 

-How in the bloody hell did the Immortal Flame manage to take down Ifrit multiple times (with many sacrifices yes) without having their whole army tempered as soon as they were in front of the beast? I mean, Ifrit could just transform them all into mindless slave. What did they do to avoid being tempered?

 

Tempering appears to require some effort on the part of the Primal, so it may or may not be able to be done in the middle of a large pitched battle without rendering him vulnerable to some of his attackers. Also, some members may have the Echo (especially PC adventurers ), may have been Tempered by other Primals, or perhaps aware of the process, the Flames sent their people in in waves to keep Ifrit from doing it to too many at once; we certainly only see it being used on a small group of people who've been captured. Also, someone else on the thread mentioned that this very issue comes up in the main scenario quest (I assume after the Ifrit arc), so it might be explained there.

 

-What about characters without Echo, how would they be supposed to fight a Primal, if an RP event like that ever happened? My (somewhat corrupted) character doesn't have the echo, if she ever met a primal then it's game over. Unless there's a god that can temper you without taking your brain, or I'll have to come up with a ridiculous backstory such as "Oh yeah she already died once and dead people can't be tempered!", I don't really want that lol.

 

Short answer: they can't RP that while maintaining an internally consistent storyline if they have no other explanation. The choices we make about our characters impact what they can do ICly.

 

Long answer: The Echo is all kinds of mysterious. Even those who've had it for some time don't fully understand it, and it seems largely outside of a PC's control. Beyond, say, engaging a Primal in a large military action (which would exclude ICly participating in the small group fights of the game), you could come up with other reasons. Perhaps your character is simply immune to being Tempered and no one knows why, not even her -- maybe it's the Echo, maybe it's not. Your character certainly hasn't seen in anyone's memories, yet, though, or gained the ability to understand other tongues. That's probably the most lore-friendly approach. More of a stretch would be coming up with some sort of spell or alchemical preparation that makes you immune to it for a time, but somehow can't be shared with others or replicated, or having your character actually be Tempered to a different Primal and no one knows (though this would have major IC consequences if it came up -- ICA = ICC and all that).

[ArmachiA]

Somethings in the story we're using in our FC/characters and some things we're disregarding, which I think everyone in some way is doing.

 

Most of the people in my guild decided they were at the battle of Carteneau and skipped ahead five years, including my two characters and that's totally fine! It worked out since no one is running around going "We're warriors of light! Pat attention!" in fact, most of them don't seem to want to mention it at all. So that kind of thing we can make work. We're also planning on doing Primal fights ICly. Once the Night Blades gets "strong enough" and we get into our Primal story arch, we're planning on being a group who takes them down. Not "THE" group, just "A" group, since the primals are consistently appearing now. If it was said the primals only appear once and some hero defeated them, we would ignore it all together. But since its canon that they keep reappearing, and our whole concept is power, it seemed like a natural fit.

 

I know of one person in my guild who has "The Echo" ICly, everyone else is ignoring it and just saying they never had it. I think having the Echo ICly is fine, since it doesn't contradict lore in any way, but people should be careful with using some of the Echo's powers while in character, it could be seen as god-modding/meta-gaming.

 

The rest... saying your the hero of the story is touchy business.

 

For instance... I ran an RP shell on Quetzalcoatl in FFXI and we followed the game storyline to the letter. We would set up events around the missions, do the missions as a guild, then RP them as part of our timeline. Once the first group beat the mission, any group after them was OOC - it only counted with the first group. This worked, in a way, because we were the only RPLS on the server. We could pretty much do whatever we wanted. No one was there to argue with us.

Then another shell ended up forming on the server, who we knew about and RPed with. A lot of problems happened because, according to them, the story missions hadn't even happened yet, and the Shadowlord was still alive. It became almost impossible to RP with the other group because our timelines never matched up and our heroes were different. When they finally were able to beat the Shadowlord, I was there with them to help and they had to call me a "Nameless Redmage" in their timeline because according to MY timeline the Shadowlord was already dead and it was confusing and blleeeehhhh. It really only works if you plan on never really interacting with the community as a whole.

 

We plan on doing raids and things ICly (Once we have them on farm) but they will never be big important things. For instance, the Bahamut fight will just turn into a large Dragon in our story, so we can leave some hero off over there to beat the actual Bahamut.

[moody]

Killed by very large forces at least from what i gather and not easily. Having everyone and his Mother having done battle with and defeated primals it just gets silly

 

Now adding backstory element that my Lala's mother defeated Garuda with naught but a rolling pin when the primal interrupted her making pie crusts. >.>

 

 

(just kidding of course)

[Hansem Wildsteel]

Now, do not lapidate me please, but I will say it :

 

This is something that World of Warcraft did exceptionnally well. Your characters were in the main storyline, but as a support cast to the main characters of Azeroth. So you never were in the spotlight alone.

 

That is how I roleplay in FF14, If I see and fight a primal, I prefer to think that it was with a huge group of adventurer, in support of the main characters, doing something relatively minor like creating a diversion for the minions of the said primal.

 

Anyhow, as of now, I am still pretending in game that the storyline does not exist. Also, I imagine primal being way too strong to be killed by 4 adventurers. I mean, Bahamut ripped Hydaelin apart.....

[Ildur]

Remember that the power a Primal has is directly proportional with how many aether they have 'eaten' (how many crystals were used in their summoning, basically). Also, different Primals have different powers: Bahamut ripped the world apart because he's the most powerful one, probably related to being the Primal of dragons. The other Primals have their own gimmicks (like Ramuh being extremely territorial), but their raw power is different from each other.

[FreelanceWizard]

To echo Ildur's point, a Primal is very different from, say, the Lich King. Without getting too spoilery, think of a Primal as a summoned monster. If the summoner is extremely powerful, then the summon will be; if the summoner is weak, the primal will be comparatively weak. So, when you fight, say, Ifrit, you're really fighting an instance of Ifrit -- an avatar of Ifrit, one might say -- with a variable power level based on the circumstances of the summoning.

 

This is the reason why the Scions of the Seventh Dawn keep talking about the "Primal problem" and why it's so devilishly hard to solve. They can't just rally a bunch of adventurers with the Echo together to kill the Primals in Eorzea, because that doesn't really do anything. Killing a Primal just unsummons that instance and, while that's a good thing (it stops further Tempering and saves lives), it doesn't really address the underlying issue.

 

 

 

I, at least, haven't gotten far enough in the main scenario quest to know why (if it's disclosed at all) Bahamut is so powerful when released from Dalamud, but I have some theories.

[K'nahli]

I don't think its unfair of me to say that anyone who is the self-proclaimed protagonist of the story is being very unreasonable and that they cannot expect to be taken seriously by other RPers. If you want to RP in a small group of your own then that is fine, but do not expect others (or me) to cater and adjust to what I know or think has happened just to suit every little snowflake version of particular events. True, not everyone can be catered to and there will be some exclusion but that will always be the case with RP scenarios.

 

We have a rather large community here. Surely a significant portion of us are open to the idea of following some significant chronicle of events, something that is consistent and that we can all play a part in to varying degrees? What I would like to see is something that was suggested before in another topic, a party of "heroes" that play an important role SIMILAR to that of the main story. They should not be Gods or capable of great things all on their lonesome. They should just be the ones credited to having significant participation in battle, leaderships and/or judgements and can influence the world's(that is everyone who agrees) populace. In addition to that, we could have "masters" and expert roleplayers of varying styles helping to form the foundation of everything that happens and keeping it all framed and tidy to ensure consistency just as Clover had suggested.

 

 

Now, even if people were to agree to this idea, I personally feel that I'd want specific types of people to play the important roles. This is not a matter of "Sorry, you're not a good enough rp'er" or anything, but rather something that is believable and fitting to the role they are supposed to handle. I'd hate, for instance, to see someone acting like slaying four or five people/beasts is as easy as breathing and loves to do crazy mad flips through the air and slicing & dicing everything in sight before their enemies have a chance to react. So with that, it'd be nice if we all had a vote on the candidates for certain roles. Not everyone should be nice or perfect or the pinnacle of perfection when it comes to fighting. Strengths could lie anywhere, I would just like something believable and people that I can honestly incorporate into my own roleplay even if I never meet them. That's just one term I think everyone who is open to this idea can agree on. It wouldn't be a vote on quality of RP, just a judgement on the potential your existing character would provide to such roles with everything taken into consideration.

 

 

Well anyways, that's all just my input, sorry if any of it sounds ridiculous.

[FreelanceWizard]

I don't anyone's advocating taking the entire story of the MSQ as written as canon for their characters. Some parts of the story (though thankfully not as many as in other games) very clearly need to be genericized, because otherwise, you'd definitely be stepping on other players' toes.

 

We have a rather large community here. Surely a significant portion of us are open to the idea of following some significant chronicle of events, something that is consistent and that we can all play a part in to varying degrees? What I would like to see is something that was suggested before in another topic, a party of "heroes" that play an important role SIMILAR to that of the main story. They should not be Gods or capable of great things all on their lonesome. They should just be the ones credited to having significant participation in battle, leaderships and/or judgements and can influence the world's(that is everyone who agrees) populace. In addition to that, we could have "masters" and expert roleplayers of varying styles helping to form the foundation of everything that happens and keeping it all framed and tidy to ensure consistency just as Clover had suggested.

 

The problem is that this is a drama bomb of epic proportions waiting to happen. It's essentially a group of players saying, "Hey, this canonical event? You can't have any role other than an extra in it, because these PCs we appointed have those starring roles." It's the same thing as saying your character is the Chosen Protagonist of the story, except it's a group of players anointing some of their own to be the Chosen Protagonists. That's very much stepping on other players' RP; just because a group of people does it doesn't mean it's fair play. It's especially bad if a significant proportion of the RPC does it, because nothing screams "elitist clique" faster than telling other RPers that an anointed set of characters (who will, being chosen by vote, inevitably be the most popular and well-liked characters, or the characters of the most popular and well-liked players) have key roles in what will invariably be viewed as "the RPC's Secret Cabal of RP Masters' fanon" -- no matter how much people claim otherwise.

 

Now, sure, you can do it in an LS or FC -- and some very successful guilds in a variety of games have done this -- but the end result is that the RP of the group becomes incompatible with other players, since they won't recognize the group's authority to dictate who did what in the game's storyline (nor should they be expected to). That means that any time these events come up in RP, the two sides are going to have an OOC disagreement that can only be solved ICly by both sides RPing that the other's lost a few marbles. You can also solve it OOC by simply not RPing it with other players, but that inevitably leads to insular RP (why RP with people who don't recognize your story?).

 

Ultimately, the problem isn't the power level of these characters -- in fact, the issue of the average power level of a PC is quite different from the story implications of taking quests IC at face value (you can be a high power character without being a special snowflake and vice-versa). The problem is that it's a group of players telling another group of players which characters get to play key roles in a story that none of us created; ultimately, it's SE's story. No player has the authority to do that, and attempting to assert it will always cause OOC snarls.

 

I think the best solution is the most common one: the big events in the storyline -- the ones that only one PC or a small group of PCs can undertake -- remain always in the hands of generic NPC heroes. Events that every PC can do (taking down Primals, having the Echo, participating in Carteneau) are things that you can say your character did. Everything in between is a judgment call, with my judgment personally falling down on the side of "make it generic if there's any question about it clobbering others' RP."

 

EDIT: Aaand all of that being taken into consideration, if we're just talking about player-created stories, the exact same issues exist, with the added complication that getting LS and FC leaders to agree on anything can be quite challenging. For player-created stories, the best way to handle them is to keep them at a plausible level that doesn't stomp on anyone else's RP (no saving the world from Bahamut, please), and weave them together with a system like the Tonberry's Lantern. By simply letting other groups know what you're doing, they can weave it into their stories and RP. Offering an RP opportunity is much better than attempting to enforce an fanon.

[Clover]

At least I hope people will organize epic stories about imaginary monsters or confrontations against the Garlean empire. Those wouldn't step on anyone's RP, I think, and many players could participate. I'd personally love that ;w; *eager to participate in any plot*.

[K'nahli]

The problem is that this is a drama bomb of epic proportions waiting to happen. It's essentially a group of players saying, "Hey, this canonical event? You can't have any role other than an extra in it, because these PCs we appointed have those starring roles." It's the same thing as saying your character is the Chosen Protagonist of the story, except it's a group of players anointing some of their own to be the Chosen Protagonists. That's very much stepping on other players' RP; just because a group of people does it doesn't mean it's fair play.

 

But this only affects people that WANT to be the protagonist. Just assuming and playing by such standards is already potentially stepping on the RP of every single person they meet who may have played to a different chronicle whereas if we can all gather together to unify under a single set of leaders(and leaders can change and die and be promoted/demoted/move etc) we are promoting more consistency and inclusion to as many people as possible and having influence on their stories both directly and indirectly.

 

 

FreelanceWizard

It's especially bad if a significant proportion of the RPC does it, because nothing screams "elitist clique" faster than telling other RPers that an anointed set of characters (who will, being chosen by vote, inevitably be the most popular and well-liked characters, or the characters of the most popular and well-liked players) have key roles in what will invariably be viewed as "the RPC's Secret Cabal of RP Masters' fanon" -- no matter how much people claim otherwise.

 

I'm sure most of us can rise above this though. No-one wants god modders or ultimate players who can dictate everything we do or do not do. Our characters have free will and I only suggested such "elite" players to play leadership roles or perhaps suit in to meld with any future lore that cannot be attributed to many people and where a "scapegoat" for lack of a better word is needed.

 

The fact of the matter is that some people need to play the leadership role, someone that members of grand companies or volunteering adventurers/mercenaries can look to otherwise everything will be in disarray and everyone will assume responsibility and cause IC or OOC arguments. Not the good kind I might add. Disarray is nice but it can't be there all of the time because no-one is a leader on the battlefield or elsewhere.

 

FreelanceWizard

EDIT: Aaand all of that being taken into consideration, if we're just talking about player-created stories, the exact same issues exist, with the added complication that getting LS and FC leaders to agree on anything can be quite challenging. For player-created stories, the best way to handle them is to keep them at a plausible level that doesn't stomp on anyone else's RP (no saving the world from Bahamut, please), and weave them together with a system like the Tonberry's Lantern. By simply letting other groups know what you're doing, they can weave it into their stories and RP. Offering an RP opportunity is much better than attempting to enforce an fanon.

 

While this is probably the safest option I'd still like to know what everyone else thinks. Unless many people can come here and give valid reasons why this would interfere with their RP styles or stories personally then I think we should remain open to the possibility of having a more managed and sophisticated setup. Sure it might take a little work, but imagine how amazing it would be to have an absolute structure where everyone played a role to varying degrees.

 

No-one would dictate who does what, every positioned is volunteered to and voted on by us.

 

? ^^

[Momoji Momochi]

While I am not RPing at the moment (waiting for vial of fantasia to change to my rp char), I am using a somewhat revised version of events in order to allow me to rp within the context of the events that happen in the story. For instance, my character was involved with a large scale effort to take down Ifrit which included dozens, if not nearly a hundred adventurers as opposed to having personally taken him down. I'm also running with Hydaelyn protecting certain adventurers from tempering so I have some excuse as to why I wasn't turned during the conflict.

[FreelanceWizard]

I apologize for the inline quoting...

 

But this only affects people that WANT to be the protagonist. Just assuming and playing by such standards is already potentially stepping on the RP of every single person they meet who may have played to a different chronicle whereas if we can all gather together to unify under a single set of leaders(and leaders can change and die and be promoted/demoted/move etc) we are promoting more consistency and inclusion to as many people as possible and having influence on their stories both directly and indirectly.

 

Personally, I would rather not have some person who, by virtue of being a popular character, now has authority over mine IC because a vote said so. I would also prefer not to have a person be able to say, "I'm the only one who can beat Ifrit!" because a vote said so. Under what authority do these players have this power?

 

More importantly, this is not inclusive -- it's by definition exclusionary. Anyone who doesn't hew to these votes loses the ability to RP with that portion of the community. Anyone who doesn't want to accede to that authority to dictate storyline loses access to RP. Conversely, offering story threads to people in a central location is inclusionary, as it allows people to decide whether they want to participate or not as they see fit.

 

I'm sure most of us can rise above this though. No-one wants god modders or ultimate players who can dictate everything we do or do not do. Our characters have free will and I only suggested such "elite" players to play leadership roles or perhaps suit in to meld with any future lore that cannot be attributed to many people and where a "scapegoat" for lack of a better word is needed.

 

But it has nothing to do with godmoding (although I'd argue that attempting to enforce a fanon storyline is in a way a form of godmoding, but that's another discussion altogether). It has everything to do with the lack of authority of players to tell other players what the "fanon" story is, and the lack of authority of them to control any form of overarching plot.

 

The fact of the matter is that some people need to play the leadership role, someone that members of grand companies or volunteering adventurers/mercenaries can look to otherwise everything will be in disarray and everyone will assume responsibility and cause IC or OOC arguments. Not the good kind I might add. Disarray is nice but it can't be there all of the time because no-one is a leader on the battlefield or elsewhere.

 

This is only necessary if you want this sort of overarching plot. I don't, because it's inconsiderate to me, to new players, to players not in the RPC, to players not present for the vote, to players who aren't the "popular kids" and unlikely to be voted into one of these positions, and to the devs, whose story is now marginalized in favor of a player-created construct.

 

These are the exact same issues you have with player-run towns, for example... and those often end for the same reasons.

 

While this is probably the safest option I'd still like to know what everyone else thinks. Unless many people can come here and give valid reasons why this would interfere with their RP styles or stories personally then I think we should remain open to the possibility of having a more managed and sophisticated setup. Sure it might take a little work, but imagine how amazing it would be to have an absolute structure where everyone played a role to varying degrees.

 

No-one would dictate who does what, every positioned is volunteered to and voted on by us.

 

Oh, of course! I'm not meaning to shut down discussion -- I sure don't have any authority to do that. I've just seen these sorts of things implode (repeatedly!) in the past, and so I'm sharing my concerns and opinions forged over, well, quite a few times of seeing these exclude, marginalize, and defeat players -- and in the meantime, ignite a drama fireball between those who want this sort of authority and those who refuse to recognize it.

 

Ultimately, I look at it from the other side. Imagine you're a new player and you come into the game. You start RPing and you find out that Kylin (no offense to him, he's just a well-known name ) rules Ul'dah as it's Minister of Coin, and you can't ICly fight Primals because the Blades of Nald'thal already killed them all. You can't take any form of IC leadership because all the positions were already voted in. You can't do content IC because it's all already been done. How do you RP a great warrior? How this inclusive to you or your concept? You can't vote on it because all the votes were already done. Let's say a new vote comes up. You pitch your concept, and it's good, but because you're a new player, no one wants to vote for you. Instead, they'd rather vote for Ashren Snow (and, no offense intended, he's just a well-known name ), because he's a known quantity in the community and they just like him better. How is this fair?

 

So, I see it as amazing -- for those who are in power of it! Those who aren't are marginalized and excluded, and it's being done on a grand scale. If an FC or LS wants to do this in their own internal plot, that's fine: no one else has to recognize it, and if I don't like it, I can always leave that group. If the community as a whole does it, though, my only option is to leave the server or the game entirely. I can't support an idea like that.

[K'nahli]

I wish you'd tell me how to quote like you just did TwT

 

Ultimately, I look at it from the other side. Imagine you're a new player and you come into the game. You start RPing and you find out that Kylin (no offense to him, he's just a well-known name ) rules Ul'dah as it's Minister of Coin, and you can't ICly fight Primals because the Blades of Nald'thal already killed them all. You can't take any form of IC leadership because all the positions were already voted in. You can't do content IC because it's all already been done. How do you RP a great warrior? How this inclusive to you or your concept? You can't vote on it because all the votes were already done. Let's say a new vote comes up. You pitch your concept, and it's good, but because you're a new player, no one wants to vote for you. Instead, they'd rather vote for Ashren Snow (and, no offense intended, he's just a well-known name ), because he's a known quantity in the community and they just like him better. How is this fair?

 

So, I see it as amazing -- for those who are in power of it! Those who aren't are marginalized and excluded, and it's being done on a grand scale. If an FC or LS wants to do this in their own internal plot, that's fine: no one else has to recognize it, and if I don't like it, I can always leave that group. If the community as a whole does it, though, my only option is to leave the server or the game entirely. I can't support an idea like that.

 

I suppose that is a rather compelling argument. My inexperience is perhaps leading me to underestimate the amount of people that actually yearn for a position of importance and power. However, even with your less restrictive idea, that still prevents people from RP'ing previous timelines with players who have already ran through it. So mostly your concerns fall down to positions of power, aspects which I think are worth a little research at least to see how much interest there is in particular areas and how much influence such players have on each other. You do seem to be comprehending it as though I am implying the the leaders have full control over everything you do and such but rather I mean to place them as a guide. We'd need to be very careful with planning it of course but there could be a reasonable way of handling it given a little thought if the interest was there.

 

If you're part of a Grand Company then you must expect to follow orders from a superior though, right? Likewise, if you're a randomer then you have no allegiances to strictly adhere to so even if you disagree then you can just ignore it and move along if you so choose.

 

I'm a little tired now so can't explain myself as well as I could but I hope the idea isn't too fairytale-ish ^^;;

[Raccoon]

I wish you'd tell me how to quote like you just did TwT

 

When you reply with the quote, just put a /quote in brackets after each section and a quote in brackets before the next section. That creates those individualized quotes, between which you can put your comments. Just be sure to preview the post before you do it so you can be sure it's right.

[Ildur]

However, even with your less restrictive idea, that still prevents people from RP'ing previous timelines with players who have already ran through it.

 

The solution to that is to not have an actual piece of the main storyline as part of your micro-canon. The game might force a certain line of events when you play through content, but there are ways in which you can handwave, reinterpret or ultimately completely change it for roleplaying purposes.

For example, let's consider the Sastasha dungeon. You can easily ignore the in-game information and simply have an IC run of it as if it was just one of many pirate hideouts. If you run the dungeon IC and also using the storyline proposed by the game then you are effectively, as you say, preventing other people from doing that content as far as your micro-canon is concerned.

If you transform the content into a 'generic' version, however, you don't. You can in fact run Sastasha in-character as many times as you want because, as far as your micro-canon is concerned, you are raiding pirate hideouts that are unrelated to the game's storyline.

 

You do seem to be comprehending it as though I am implying the the leaders have full control over everything you do and such but rather I mean to place them as a guide.

 

If you don't give them authority, then we cannot call them leaders at all. If you give them authority, they are not simple guides anymore since they will have the power, implicit or explicit, direct or indirect, to decide on matters of what is 'canonicaly' correct for the community or for a subset of players. For example, someone who 'canonicaly' (as decided by the RPC) is the highest officer of the Immoral Flames below Rhaubaun: he has power over everyone inferior in ranks to him. The only way for characters to ignore his orders in-character is to imply that someone who is 'higher' than him ordered him otherwise. Except the only one higher than him is an NPC who cannot be spoken to without trampling on everyone else's toes.

 

This positions of power only work well in guilds/free companies/linkshells, because people implicitly place theirselves under the leadership by joining.

It can also work in community driven events when the position of leadership is temporal, a consequence of the event and when obedience is optional.

None of that is true if you appoint players or characters as the higher-ups of canonical organizations.