Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world?

[Lament]

A bit off topic, but Siobhain, I'd love to know where that knowledge of Miqo'te lore comes from - what I've seen on the wiki and in the naming conventions page is vague, and while the comparison to lions seems valid, the naming conventions do seem to imply that for Seekers, the male is the root of the family. The naming conventions also specifically state that Nunh status does not equate to leadership and that very few Nunh ever become leaders, so it seems like while being a Nunh seems to be a desirable element for breeding, it doesn't actually have any impact on your power within the tribe's hierarchy (though I'd wager it would make you important, as a source of new offspring). I haven't gotten far enough into the game to see if there's any further exposition there and I am really curious if there are other sources of lore I haven't found yet!

 

I also remember reading somewhere that one Nunh per 10-50 females is average, which seems to imply there can be more than one Nunh per tribe, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was I read that.

 

Herp durp I have a high quality memory. It's in the naming conventions topic:

 

 

Depending on its size, a tribe may have multiple nunh (a ratio of one nunh per ten to fifty females is average).

[Momoji Momochi]

I remember reading in the lore that they were supposed to have a proud tradition of hunting, with powerful legs built specifically for that purpose. Then I go ingame and they're hunting alright, but it isn't for ... uh... yeah...

 

How they're presented in game is sort of a bad joke actually.

[Hyunseo]

Her badassery felt reduced to cartoonish half-assery than what I expected her to be like. I mean, I didn't expect her to be a Big Bad, but I did kind of expect her to be a lot more serious??? Or maybe a force to be taken more seriously??

 

But her sort of unphased attitude is born from her arrogance and feeling of being untouchable, isn't it? The elzen on the other hand who bantered back and forth with her made it a little comical by humouring her attitude due to their past run-ins. He is also cocky, he even insisted on going alone. I don't think he was worried about failing either. He just saw her as a rival and a past mistake that he needed to redeem himself for. I think both him and her had no intentions or worries about losing to one another because they were confident in their own abilities. The mqio'te and your character on the other hand treated it more seriously.

 

I dunno, maybe its just me but I thought it was a good scene ^^"

 

I thought it was a good seen with her and the elezen, but even Miss Aliapoh, the other Miqo'te woman who was struggling with fitting in, seemed to be written off without much care.

 

I suppose everything might have been condensed since it was supposed to be a short story. Perhaps I'm trying to look too much into it when it's supposed to be simple. I was just expecting more, I suppose, for all the characters involved, though I feel like the male elezen was the most well-written compared to the women.

 

—that's how I can put it. I felt like the main female characters were treated moreso as plot devices rather than developed characters.

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, this is just how I feel. I might just be just wanting more from a little subplot.

 

 

I also feel like Keepers aren't getting enough love, because they are a matriarch, and yet I've seen none of that, yet.

[DAISHI]

It's a fetish race. It's always been a fetish race. Since FFXI it's been an overchosen hypersexualised Rule 34 fetish race. There were far more Manqote then Miqote.

[Verranicus]

I remember reading in the lore that they were supposed to have a proud tradition of hunting, with powerful legs built specifically for that purpose. Then I go ingame and they're hunting alright, but it isn't for ... uh... yeah...

 

How they're presented in game is sort of a bad joke actually.

 

If when you look at them all you see are the negative sides, that they're hookers and loose and fanservice only, chances are you had some of those ideas in your mind before you even signed in.

[YesGood]

A bit off topic, but Siobhain, I'd love to know where that knowledge of Miqo'te lore comes from - what I've seen on the wiki and in the naming conventions page is vague, and while the comparison to lions seems valid, the naming conventions do seem to imply that for Seekers, the male is the root of the family. The naming conventions also specifically state that Nunh status does not equate to leadership and that very few Nunh ever become leaders, so it seems like while being a Nunh seems to be a desirable element for breeding, it doesn't actually have any impact on your power within the tribe's hierarchy (though I'd wager it would make you important, as a source of new offspring). I haven't gotten far enough into the game to see if there's any further exposition there and I am really curious if there are other sources of lore I haven't found yet!

 

I also remember reading somewhere that one Nunh per 10-50 females is average, which seems to imply there can be more than one Nunh per tribe, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was I read that.

 

Herp durp I have a high quality memory. It's in the naming conventions topic:

 

 

Depending on its size, a tribe may have multiple nunh (a ratio of one nunh per ten to fifty females is average).

 

 

 Yep, I found that too. Actually, what I misread was another forum topic that brought up that they -could- be patriarchal or they -could- not be patriarchal and probably both forms of society exist given the number of different tribes. I also think I took the part about Nunhs not always becoming leaders and the part where, even though they are the root of a new clan (when they establish one) they are also replaceable and my brain equated a fact out of that that doesn't actually exist.

 

 Sorry 'bout dat.

[K'nahli]

Perhaps since my archer is a miqo'te I didn't dwell to much on the other miqo's inferiority(?) By that I mean I didn't take her race into consideration. I'm not too sure what you mean since my brain isn't working at this hour but perhaps because of the way the Elzen condemns all races but his own?

[Noble_Einherjar]

It does bother me sometimes. But what actually bothers me is the overt nature of it all. Like the Hyur Highlander captain who is obviously banging twin Miqo'te women in Highbridge. Isabela from Dragon Age 2 sometimes had more subtle innuendo than that.

 

I like that XIV has a mature vibe to it. Like how pirates in Limsa Lominsa aren't romanticized to be anything more than ale-drinking, foul-mouthed cutthroats, and don't sugarcoat what they do to their captive women. But it seems that a lot of the dialogue and events surrounding the Miqo'te are just all about them being prostitutes and pleasure flesh. There's nothing there (that I've seen) that builds on the scant amount of lore we know about them. But maybe that's true for all the races.

 

To be fair, there was that one quest in Costa del Sol to talk to some dancers on the beach, and all races (except Lalafell) were represented.

 

I dunno. I would have less of a problem with it if it was actually part of the lore that Miqo'te tribes were promiscuous or that slave culture was part of their lives. But as it is, it's just fan service. Don't get me wrong, I love me some fan service. I guess I just want some variety. Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

[Oroban]

With all of that, I think all those Miqo'te make it big in Ul'dah or at least try. And pssh, maybe Lost River should try her best as a courtesan. But, more of an Asian flair to it, yeah! Giant lady in a kimono.

Shut up and take my gil? :lol:

[YesGood]

Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

 

 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.

 

 Isn't it up to us to maybe Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.

 

 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.

 

 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.

 

 Sio: HULK SMASH!

---

 

 

Edit:

I think some of that was aimed at me, Siobhain, so I'll just add that I have zero qualms with RPers playing as miqo'te courtesans or anything! I have no problem with that idea at all. Was just a little sad that it seems to be becoming a stereotype or general depiction of the race as a whole ^^

 

I missed this post. I'm sorry there, hun, I don't mean to call you out at all. I understand how you might feel as someone who tried to play a Belf when Belfs were viewed poorly based on what many others decided to do with them. Like I said, I take this issue about the race being stereotyped, or worse, being treated like a joke or an easter egg very seriously.

 

I, personally, admit that I'm very jealous. It seems there's more on Miqo'te in just the little details of their naming conventions and their males to female dynamics than there are about Roegadyn. I really wish there was even this much to go off of, instead of having to assume Roegadyn are like Vikings. I wish there was a bit more flavor to it, you know? That's why I hope someone sees the more positive sides of Miqo'tes instead of being worried about how other people view them. I feel they're really lucky compared to the rest of us.

[Lost River]

Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

 

 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.

 

 Isn't it up to us to maybe Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.

 

 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.

 

 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.

 

 Sio: HULK SMASH!

 

Now now love, we can't go in that territory, even though it'd be quite a juicy story, but I don't think these forums appreciate that type of tale. They can only fantasize.

 

But now, I want to get a picture of Lost in a kimono smoking a kiseru. Complete with it being 'open' and low cut. With her saying something like. "How do I look?"

 

Or with her usual accent "Ow'd 'eh 'ook, luv?"

[Lament]

A bit off topic, but Siobhain, I'd love to know where that knowledge of Miqo'te lore comes from - what I've seen on the wiki and in the naming conventions page is vague, and while the comparison to lions seems valid, the naming conventions do seem to imply that for Seekers, the male is the root of the family. The naming conventions also specifically state that Nunh status does not equate to leadership and that very few Nunh ever become leaders, so it seems like while being a Nunh seems to be a desirable element for breeding, it doesn't actually have any impact on your power within the tribe's hierarchy (though I'd wager it would make you important, as a source of new offspring). I haven't gotten far enough into the game to see if there's any further exposition there and I am really curious if there are other sources of lore I haven't found yet!

 

I also remember reading somewhere that one Nunh per 10-50 females is average, which seems to imply there can be more than one Nunh per tribe, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was I read that.

 

Herp durp I have a high quality memory. It's in the naming conventions topic:

 

 

Depending on its size, a tribe may have multiple nunh (a ratio of one nunh per ten to fifty females is average).

 

 

 Yep, I found that too. Actually, what I misread was another forum topic that brought up that they -could- be patriarchal or they -could- not be patriarchal and probably both forms of society exist given the number of different tribes. I also think I took the part about Nunhs not always becoming leaders and the part where, even though they are the root of a new clan (when they establish one) they are also replaceable and my brain equated a fact out of that that doesn't actually exist.

 

 Sorry 'bout dat.

 

D: I was hoping for more lore. Darn. Thanks for clarifying though!

 

The naming conventions topic does state they are patriarchal, just not the degree of it. I imagine women do hold important positions in most of the tribes - at least most of the NPCs don't seem to be the submissive, meek types, which would be expected if the patriarchy was very strict - and that each tribe has its own quirks. I always took the Keepers as more extreme in the male/female value gap, since their naming conventions are way more severe and imply a lot more disregard for the individuality of males than the Seekers' conventions do for that of females. It reminds me of an ancient Korean dynasty that is alluded to in a visual novel, where women were so unimportant in the hierarchy that they didn't even get their given names written in family trees - just the name of the family they came from, whereas men got their given name and their family name.

[Duhbine]

Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

 

 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.

 

 Isn't it up to us to maybe Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.

 

 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.

 

 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.

 

 Sio: HULK SMASH!

 Siobhain and Lost, you two are amazingly very interesting to watch on the forums  and agree that Roegadyns and Elezen's can and are sexy, just depends on the person.

 

As for the Miqo'te's and how they are done. Just remember, how you RP your character is up to you, Lore wise we really don't have much say in it, but that's lore we are just along for the ride and have fun while doings so. You don't need to be a whore or a slave to some person, plenty of them aren't and plenty of them would just as well kill a male for trying haha.

 

Miqo'te's as a race aren't as reserved about this as the other races, and what you got to mostly remember in the times that this word is sort of based on. It was much the same as in our earlier times, and back them "companions" where in many culture's well respected... and some slaves in culture's were as well, if they brought their Master profit that is.

[K'nahli]

 

---

 

 

Edit:

I think some of that was aimed at me, Siobhain, so I'll just add that I have zero qualms with RPers playing as miqo'te courtesans or anything! I have no problem with that idea at all. Was just a little sad that it seems to be becoming a stereotype or general depiction of the race as a whole ^^

 

I missed this post. I'm sorry there, hun, I don't mean to call you out at all. I understand how you might feel as someone who tried to play a Belf when Belfs were viewed poorly based on what many others decided to do with them. Like I said, I take this issue about the race being stereotyped, or worse, being treated like a joke or an easter egg very seriously.

 

I, personally, admit that I'm very jealous. It seems there's more on Miqo'te in just the little details of their naming conventions and their males to female dynamics than there are about Roegadyn. I really wish there was even this much to go off of, instead of having to assume Roegadyn are like Vikings. I wish there was a bit more flavor to it, you know? That's why I hope someone sees the more positive sides of Miqo'tes instead of being worried about how other people view them. I feel they're really lucky compared to the rest of us.

 

Ahh, I can understand that completely and I am truly sorry if I was coming off as spoiled or nitpicking at details and things that just don't happen to interest me when I should be grateful for what was supplied for my main race. I naturally just grow attached to my characters and feel an urgency to defend them(or in this case their race and clan, which represent her) from anything would would give them bad stigma. I know full well that this is all likely just fan service and not something to be taken literally/seriously or feel the need to apply it to my characters in any sense at all, but even so... I like the miqo'te race and even though prostitution may not be a big deal to them/Eorzeans/Eorzea's timeline, especially with the geisha concept.. we all can't help but to relate it to modern thinking on some level and feel a certain way in a respect I guess.

 

Well, that applies for me at least, I shouldn't assume others feel similarly.

[BlessedSilence]

I think though that all this could make for an interesting RP character.

 

As a female Miqo'te you see all this happening and make it your goal in life to educate and empower the females to not have to do such "jobs".

 

But of course, one has to take what life throws at you.

 

In all honesty, would anyone have been offended if the hyur or elezen were portrayed as such?  Not trying to belittle to subject but I have seen my share of hyur prostitutes around Ul'Dah or scantily clad ones.

 

Which is a pain since I can't walk around the game w/o players sending me lewd tells ... of course a few players are an exception to the rule :lol:

[YesGood]

Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

 

 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.

 

 Isn't it up to us to make Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.

 

 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.

 

 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.

 

 Sio: HULK SMASH!

 

Now now love, we can't go in that territory, even though it'd be quite a juicy story, but I don't think these forums appreciate that type of tale. They can only fantasize.

 

But now, I want to get a picture of Lost in a kimono smoking a kiseru. Complete with it being 'open' and low cut. With her saying something like. "How do I look?"

 

Or with her usual accent "Ow'd 'eh 'ook, luv?"

 

I was serious though. Q_Q I'll see what I can do about that picture once I get those other portraits done.

 

@Duhbine- Thank you and I agree with you. But what's more, someone in that position might not just be bringing in dough for their 'owner/employer' but they could buy themselves some real status. I'm thinking a bit of the women in Game of Thrones from... that other continent. Braavos? One has her own ship.

[Lost River]

We're all also forgetting that the Miqo'te you play as are not part of a tribe as a whole as they're away from their lands. So in short, most males will be Tia or attempting to be a Nunh. As well, we're also forgetting cross-species relationships, it is possible. And as I said before, the whole courtesan thing, feels more like an Ul'dah specialty. I've seen non-Miqo'te prostitutes in the Ul'dah lands, mmhm. A nice Midlander Hyur told me to stay away from those two, they gave him crotch rot.

[YesGood]

In all honesty, would anyone have been offended if the hyur or elezen were portrayed as such?  Not trying to belittle to subject but I have seen my share of hyur prostitutes around Ul'Dah or scantily clad ones.

 

Which is a pain since I can't walk around the game w/o players sending me lewd tells ... of course a few players are an exception to the rule :lol:

 

Roll a Roe. I haven't gotten a lewd tell yet.

 

I think the three Miqo'te dancers in Ul'dah were a case too, but they looked so pretty and happy and there were just people sitting there watching them. I think it's almost expected of Hyur, as they're humans, and humans are what we know and prostitution has existed in our history and in modern times. But Elezen does seem a little strange-- I haven't seen one yet.

 

I wonder if they have regional laws about such things. Are there any slaves in Limsa Lominsa?

[Lost River]

Roll a Roe. I haven't gotten a lewd tell yet.

 

Ahem, what? Not yet? *sweat-drop* With Lost, I get a -lot- of women (or at least people playing as women, no clue real life gender) telling me she is pretty, beautiful, one has went to the lengths to get on her knee and kiss the back of my hand.

 

The cutest and strangest one was when a Lalafell did it too. lol

 

 

As for other things, I just think it's accepted in their society, isn't much of an issue, and they're in Ul'dah, land of wealth, deceit, and prostitution.

[Oroban]

In all honesty, would anyone have been offended if the hyur or elezen were portrayed as such?  Not trying to belittle to subject but I have seen my share of hyur prostitutes around Ul'Dah or scantily clad ones.

 

Which is a pain since I can't walk around the game w/o players sending me lewd tells ... of course a few players are an exception to the rule :lol:

 

Roll a Roe. I haven't gotten a lewd tell yet.

 

I think the three Miqo'te dancers in Ul'dah were a case too, but they looked so pretty and happy and there were just people sitting there watching them. I think it's almost expected of Hyur, as they're humans, and humans are what we know and prostitution has existed in our history and in modern times. But Elezen does seem a little strange-- I haven't seen one yet.

 

I wonder if they have regional laws about such things. Are there any slaves in Limsa Lominsa?

It doesn't mean they don't think it, just that they fear a fractured skull more than the urge to say it can compel them!

 

I'd be more worried if it were the Lalafell ladies getting all the lewd messages, honestly..

[Duhbine]

Why aren't the Elezen or Roegadyn allowed to be sexy? Spread the wealth.

 

 I, sir, take offense! Siobhain is sexy! She's super sexy! She's just... a certain type of sexy.

 

 Isn't it up to us to make Roegadyns more sexy? Can't say for Elezen since I don't play one.

 

 Lost River... Let's have both our Roes be caught in Ul'dah and sold off as slaves. I think it'd be pretteh fantastic.

 

 Lost: Oh nuuuu~! No, seriously, hands off or I magic you into the next life.

 

 Sio: HULK SMASH!

 

Now now love, we can't go in that territory, even though it'd be quite a juicy story, but I don't think these forums appreciate that type of tale. They can only fantasize.

 

But now, I want to get a picture of Lost in a kimono smoking a kiseru. Complete with it being 'open' and low cut. With her saying something like. "How do I look?"

 

Or with her usual accent "Ow'd 'eh 'ook, luv?"

 

I was serious though. Q_Q I'll see what I can do about that picture once I get those other portraits done.

 

@Duhbine- Thank you and I agree with you. But what's more, someone in that position might not just be bringing in dough for their 'owner/employer' but they could buy themselves some real status. I'm thinking a bit of the women in Game of Thrones from... that other continent. Braavos? One has her own ship.

 

Indeed that be the case that can happen, and would happen in some of the case. Able to buy their freedom, sure some of their clients would be buying very well....Status and freedom, a living pretty much. Well that was my 2cents back to watching and waiting for the servers to come back up.

[YesGood]

Roll a Roe. I haven't gotten a lewd tell yet.

 

Ahem, what? Not yet? *sweat-drop* With Lost, I get a -lot- of women (or at least people playing as women, no clue real life gender) telling me she is pretty, beautiful, one has went to the lengths to get on her knee and kiss the back of my hand.

 

The cutest and strangest one was when a Lalafell did it too. lol

 

 

As for other things, I just think it's accepted in their society, isn't much of an issue, and they're in Ul'dah, land of wealth, deceit, and prostitution.

 

I must be doing something wrong!! Is it because I set my 'toned' to maximum?! Is it because she's only 81 inches tall?! *wracks her brain*

 

I honestly get a little flattered by random tells about my character. Even if they're kinda creepy. I just say 'thank you' and go about my business. Not that it's happened since my Belf hunter was in Blood Knight gear.

[Lost River]

I must be doing something wrong!! Is it because I set my 'toned' to maximum?! Is it because she's only 81 inches tall?! *wracks her brain*

 

I honestly get a little flattered by random tells about my character. Even if they're kinda creepy. I just say 'thank you' and go about my business. Not that it's happened since my Belf hunter was in Blood Knight gear.

 

Don't worry honey, you're the only Roe for me.

 

 

*playfully giggles*

 

 

But on topic, I think we're only seeing a small microcosm of the Miqo'te lifestyle and such and more of Ul'dah life than such.

[K'nahli]

The ultimate form of flattery I have seen so far is someone from a Japanese sever making an account here on Balmung just so he could meet a person's character, because he enjoyed all of the screenshots she posted of her character on tumblr and loved her as a result.

[Vinter]

That's not flattery, that's called being a stalker.

 

More on topic though, it's important to keep in mind that these are really all city dwelling Miqo'te.

We don't see much of the tribes. There might be an extreme dichotomy in the behaviour between the different groups. Sort of how a dog is nothing like a wolf.