Nobility in RP

[Steel Wolf]

My GOODNESS this has been a fascinating thread. All. Nine. Pages. O_O

 

I would love to see a pair of noble houses play out intrigue and other social games in an RP setting, but more often than not it's simply used as an "easy" to form backstory for a character, in my experience. I don't think less of the player for using the trope in their background, or even for mentioning that they still retain some level of Lordship in their current interactions, as long as they're not trying to pound the fact over one's head.

 

Honestly, nobility in an MMO has been done about as frequently as any other RP archetypal trope, so the existence of them doesn't bother me one way or the other. Nobility in this game appears to be most heavily applied in Ishgard, but more implied in Ul'dah. The way I see it, Ul'dah citizenry assume their noble standing through money, or as a survival tactic--I am so TOTALLY a noblewoman because honestly, what sort of regular street rat would wear this chiffon silken gown so please take me seriously please? Ul'dah is a city of liars, refugees and the destitute all trying to not pile on top of each other while being piled on top of each other. It's a fascinating city in that regard.

 

As for Gridanian nobility, I always got the impression that those in the Gentry Ward still cling to the city-state's isolationist stance, and refuse to acknowledge the changing world around them...thus they barred the gates and kept "commoners" out. So, to that point, I think there still is a nobility there, but they're closed off, both literally and mentally, and the rest of Gridania simply rolls its eyes and carries on, ignoring the Ward's attitude.

 

It all can work out if planned properly, I agree, and I would love to see how some organized, thought-out and plotted nobility would play their little games of intrigue. Steel would never get involved, but would definitely love to watch. It could work, because, as was said earlier...

 

We're in a game where we ride giant chickens and shoot fireballs out of our asses.

 

So who's to say we can't see some in-game nobility attempt some little power plays? :3

[Ildur]

That said, can nobility ONLY be defined by wealth, or is that only because of that's how the game has defined and shaped the concept out to be?

 

As I have pointed out before, that is so only for Ul'dahn nobility because that's how the game defined the concept for that place. Ishgard's system, as per lore, has a system based on the middle ages where being a noble has nothing to do with wealth.

[Entity]

It seems to me that it would...mostly depend on the people you are with, as to how seriously you take the lore into consideration and how much you're willing to overlook.

 

I think noble characters in general can be really interesting when thrown into a mix. It adds a different dynamic, say, one where the character might have had a more strict life, and grew up learning specific things like more about history and less practical things like how to sleep in the wilderness.

 

As for me, my character is slightly modified from regular RPs. So, the story is that she comes from a house in Gridania nobility, from central shroud. I like to think of it as a mix of family/wealth based...perhaps a few generations of merchants (I mean after all, merchants from Ul'dah would have to trade with merchants established in other areas? Just an example.) who established wealth and bought land.

 

I know lore might start playing into this if I took it too seriously...like how the twelveswood was apparently a living entity or something like that...then yeah, 'owning' land might have gone differently. Still, I care more about how this effects my character's habits, and the things she knows, and her ethics. Basically how she places a lot of self-worth in her ability to produce children and act motherly and lady-like.

 

Actually, with the FC Housing, you could round up some willing participants and kind of pull it off. =P

[Entity]

My GOODNESS this has been a fascinating thread.  All.  Nine.  Pages. O_O

 

I would love to see a pair of noble houses play out intrigue and other social games in an RP setting, but more often than not it's simply used as an "easy" to form backstory for a character, in my experience.  I don't think less of the player for using the trope in their background, or even for mentioning that they still retain some level of Lordship in their current interactions, as long as they're not trying to pound the fact over one's head.

 

Honestly, nobility in an MMO has been done about as frequently as any other RP archetypal trope, so the existence of them doesn't bother me one way or the other.  Nobility in this game appears to be most heavily applied in Ishgard, but more implied in Ul'dah.  The way I see it, Ul'dah citizenry assume their noble standing through money, or as a survival tactic--I am so TOTALLY a noblewoman because honestly, what sort of regular street rat would wear this chiffon silken gown so please take me seriously please?  Ul'dah is a city of liars, refugees and the destitute all trying to not pile on top of each other while being piled on top of each other.  It's a fascinating city in that regard.

 

As for Gridanian nobility, I always got the impression that those in the Gentry Ward still cling to the city-state's isolationist stance, and refuse to acknowledge the changing world around them...thus they barred the gates and kept "commoners" out.  So, to that point, I think there still is a nobility there, but they're closed off, both literally and mentally, and the rest of Gridania simply rolls its eyes and carries on, ignoring the Ward's attitude.

 

It all can work out if planned properly, I agree, and I would love to see how some organized, thought-out and plotted nobility would play their little games of intrigue.  Steel would never get involved, but would definitely love to watch.  It could work, because, as was said earlier...

 

We're in a game where we ride giant chickens and shoot fireballs out of our asses.

 

So who's to say we can't see some in-game nobility attempt some little power plays?  :3

 

Problem with that, which I still feel is a looming problem in RP (and I've seen it before in other games I've played) Is that such a concept is one of power, and to be a lame-o quoting it, "with great power comes great responsibility." There's not a lot out there that can develop that kind of power responsibly with regards to interacting with other people and creating a versatile story. It ties easily into godmoding, or maybe as I'd like to call it "superman-ing" if one is not careful. That's why I consider those who add in consequences and weaknesses to their story more appealing, because they invite challenges and changes that really put a story together and give other people a chance to influence or change it for the better. Like I said, unless they're hiding from me or I don't know them, there's not a lot of people who can create power like that without becoming ignorant of the other players, even worse so, when the creator does not elect to fill in the details, or explain all the elements they choose to have in their concepts. I say don't start on a subject you have no idea of how to create and develop, or you're not going to be able to explain (OOCly) without breaking too many important elements in either the world you're in, or the world you yourself created.

[Natassia Olorin]

I'm more than interested, Nats a young Royal.... I'd love to find a family to be from, but cool with starting from scratch.... I'm from Ul'dah. Anyone interested in building RP, let me know... even an ic arranged marriage would be fun

[That_NPC]

Honestly, the idea of a "noble house" RP sounds phenomenal.  But the main problems would be

 

1) The number of people wanting to play nobles outnumber the rest

2) Without a story it just becomes higher class slice of life which feeds problem 1

3) The difficulty of finding a common ground rule.

 

But really, the idea is amazing, and its things like this that made me start being an NPC.  Would love to see it happen.

[Paradox]

When it comes to nobility, all nobles aren't created equal, certainly. And whether you want to go more with old royal nobility or aristocracy is also a fun possibility. Different houses with different values, all vying for the favor of things. Ul'dah seems like its noble houses would be based entirely on money, and with how much you have meaning how big you are a lot of the time, there's a lot of opportunity for 'new money' to come up. Those who've come into a large sum by trading, or treasure hunting. Imagine the fun being the adventurer who has just gained enough wealth and measure to be considered 'powerful' in Ul'dah, but with little knowledge of how the older money does things. That'd be some fun RP in itself, with some delightful conflicts of interest. Adventurers and treasure hunters are often wont to use combat to solve their problems in a lot of cases; but when in an environment where violence is frowned on, they'd have to use their wits to convince these people that they're worthy to be their peers, or even their betters. Stranger in a strange land can take a lot of forms, and in noble house rps I've been in in the past, this is always good for a contrast of personalities without everyone being the 'same old nobles'. Ishgard is lineage, which is wholly different, and can accept outsiders into the family for reasons. From what I've seen, Gridanian nobility (If Lady Amandine and her gentlemanly servant are any indication) Remind me more of the old aristocracy, perhaps a mix of established houses and 'old money' style individuals..though perhaps a strong Conjurer bloodline/closeness to the Elementals would rank you in as well. Limsa..eh..I've never seen any indication of nobility in Limsa as far as the city proper. I'm sure a wealthy shipowner would be the closest they have to 'nobles', and if they have anything, it would be merchant lords who own fleets and make a lot of trading money.

 

There's also the idea of poor noble. Outside of Ul'dah, and maybe even rarely in it, they can exist. Perhaps their house had a major scandal, or maybe it was sacked. Maybe another family assimilated theirs and they kept their old name and used what was left of their house's reputation to keep the loyal ones close. Or perhaps they're living off their name alone; finding a marriage partner in another house can be a big deal for a noble on hard times, after all. It was like that in Titanic, after all. The young lady was marrying another wealthy (douchebag) aristocrat because as her mother told her, 'all the money was gone'. I think the most fun with playing nobles is there's as many concepts for them as there are for normal lowborn or middle class RP characters. Not all of them are snooty and drink tea and talk about the unwashed commoners. There's a diversity there, and when different types of nobility interact, it's a glorious sight if played correctly. I love intrigue RP almost as much as combat RP, so seeing some noble stuff going on more often would be pleasing and fun.

 

As far as conflicts and power plays, it's also great to bring in non nobles, giving them more opportunities. Adventurers, bounty hunters, thugs, low class types, all could be paid to rough up a noble's kid and rob them to 'teach them a lesson', to hamper caravans, to harass their rivals in 'bad parts of town' and the like. And let's not forget the noble's retainers. Who says that sweet little Au Ra maid isn't a shinobi assassin specializing in Othardian poisons that many Eorzeans wouldn't know? What's that? She's poisoned someone's heir? Then I guess you'd need a learned apothecary from a similar area of the world to identify the poison and save the poor boy before it's too late! Nobility have the ability to bring people from every class into their intrigue, form hirelings to killers to friends in low places, to mingling with the other side for whatever reason or another. Love them or hate them, they can get some great RP going. Whether your style is Downton Abbey or Game of Thrones, hope to see more of this.

[111]

 

 

There's also the idea of poor noble. Outside of Ul'dah, and maybe even rarely in it, they can exist. Perhaps their house had a major scandal, or maybe it was sacked. Maybe another family assimilated theirs and they kept their old name and used what was left of their house's reputation to keep the loyal ones close. Or perhaps they're living off their name alone; finding a marriage partner in another house can be a big deal for a noble on hard times, after all. It was like that in Titanic, after all. The young lady was marrying another wealthy (douchebag) aristocrat because as her mother told her, 'all the money was gone'. I think the most fun with playing nobles is there's as many concepts for them as there are for normal lowborn or middle class RP characters. Not all of them are snooty and drink tea and talk about the unwashed commoners. There's a diversity there, and when different types of nobility interact, it's a glorious sight if played correctly. I love intrigue RP almost as much as combat RP, so seeing some noble stuff going on more often would be pleasing and fun.

 

This is relatively close to my character concept. She's the only surviving child of a minor noble family in Ishgard who's power has faded over the years. However she was disgraced and exiled, and now live in Ul'dah.

 

I think there are lots of decent reasons to make a character highborn, or at least with some past involving it. Many play nobles clumsily, but I think an equal number play lowborn characters clumsily. There are things that it is unlikely the average non noble would have access to, such as:

 

- Education, and the ability to read

 

- Well spoken, and understanding proper use of language

 

- Manners and social graces

 

- Luxury of travel

 

Among others. There are lots of well spoken and charming lowborn characters in the game, however the lore leads us to believe it is rather unlikely. Every low born NPC you meet tends to be gruff and poorly spoken. Even the lowborn you meet in fancy Ishgard swears like a sailor constantly.

[Paradox]

True, but that also comes down to playing style. Some actually find it difficult to play more rough characters, even if they're not playing a fancy noble. For myself, it's difficult sometimes because I like to think I have moderately good grammar, spelling, speech abilities. Stepping out of the ability to have such things is hard because I grew up being literate at a young age, learned to read quickly and developed my writing skills early. It's actually harder for me to use impolite speech or write in things like accents (because I often forget to add said accents in speech, which is my own fault, but I digress).

 

To that end I generally play characters who have at least a rudimentary education, or come from a more middle class sort of background. Not wealthy, but not dirt poor either. If my character also has a profession, which most characters do that isn't mercenary or bounty hunter or something of that line, they generally have basic reading skills for processing orders or sending out things. But this is totally off topic, so I'll actually stop my summary there.

 

Adventurers I'd think, might find a reason to at least learn to read because after a while, people will start to fleece you if you can't. Even if not noble born, they might also have done work for them at one point, and likely would have had to learn certain skills. There's a whole spectrum of people who work with high class individuals that have to at least be able to do certain things, so I think it's not as unrealistic in-lore for *some* lowborn types to have gotten there on their own or through training, but at the end of the day I think a lot of it is player stylistic more than a fully even portrayal.

[111]

True, but that also comes down to playing style. Some actually find it difficult to play more rough characters, even if they're not playing a fancy noble. For myself, it's difficult sometimes because I like to think I have moderately good grammar, spelling, speech abilities. Stepping out of the ability to have such things is hard because I grew up being literate at a young age, learned to read quickly and developed my writing skills early. It's actually harder for me to use impolite speech or write in things like accents (because I often forget to add said accents in speech, which is my own fault, but I digress).

 

To that end I generally play characters who have at least a rudimentary education, or come from a more middle class sort of background. Not wealthy, but not dirt poor either. If my character also has a profession, which most characters do that isn't mercenary or bounty hunter or something of that line, they generally have basic reading skills for processing orders or sending out things. But this is totally off topic, so I'll actually stop my summary there.

 

Adventurers I'd think, might find a reason to at least learn to read because after a while, people will start to fleece you if you can't. Even if not noble born, they might also have done work for them at one point, and likely would have had to learn certain skills. There's a whole spectrum of people who work with high class individuals that have to at least be able to do certain things, so I think it's not as unrealistic in-lore for *some* lowborn types to have gotten there on their own or through training, but at the end of the day I think a lot of it is player stylistic more than a fully even portrayal.

 

I struggle with that myself. My two main characters are a crusty blade and a disgraced noble. I have to take great efforts to keep their speaking styles different.

 

Part of it is obviously word choice. For example if something bad happens:

 

Evangeline - "Heavens Forfend!"

 

R'elend - "Fucking hell."

 

But one can only swear so much, there are other tells, like Evangeline never uses 'Aye' or 'Oy' or any of that. She tends to use people's correct titles, unless they are friends, etc etc.

 

However I slip up a lot, usually it's making my Blade too refined, same as yourself. But I just play it off as him being smarter than he appears. I have great respect for those who can consistently keep up an accent/manner of speaking for their character.

[Paradox]

A'rklonn is simultaneously moderately refined and an angry bastard. He grew up quite poor, and made good for himself with various Aether breakthroughs in his magic synergy studies as well as trading (*cough, smuggling*) various relics and artifacts from digs he's conned or bought his way into. He tries to be refined and philosophical and even succeeds..but when he gets angry, that orphanage kid comes out and he sounds like someone you'd expect to hear in a back alley tavern. So cross-culture characters can be such a way as well. They can keep up a trained mask because they eased into a type of culture, but you can't take the street rat or soldier out of them in the end. A'rk's the type to actually say things like great philosophers would to teach a grand lesson, but internally he's just like. 'Fuck it'.

[Barbarccia Valadis]

Mmm! I've learned that after recent events unfolding people generally lean towards being spiteful or rude towards the noble caste so much in such that I've had people get defensive when the character it's self is unable to relate to the general ongoing issues a commoner would face.

 

I've forgone announcing the character as a noble IC and have just gone with being a well dressed business woman making casual chit chat because the walls people put up are MUCH lower when they suspect you worked for status instead of being born to it.

 

It's a tough stigma to break and as mentioned before, RP encourages people to challenge authority. If you look through the forums you'll find the plight of many lawful aligned characters pulling out their hair trying to figure out how to play a upstanding member of society without having to physically engage with every rapscallion who doesn't adhere to the canonical law. 

 

Being Noble means being Noble. You can be or do whatever you'd like, but if you typecast yourself, you have to at least pretend to play the part and sadly that typically means making the tough decisions, having the general population not like you despite your best intentions and then having to firmly defend your status and beliefs over and often.

 

This is why large extravagant parties are the go-to for most people of status. It inducts people into your playing field and forces people to behave in the spirit of RP. Personally, I'd like to see all dimensions of caste, gender, and races represented to make the world that much more atmospheric, vivid, and rich. It all comes full circle.

 

Those snooty people that keep you from having fun? Yeah, they are often great RPers with large arching themes, an easy second opinion, greatly connected, of if anything else, they add flavor and intensity to your current RP by bringing in Politics, Intrigue, Business, Sciences and other big picture, big schemes that take a great story and makes it into an Epic.