Information on Life Spans

[Sounsyy]

So I went back looking for levequest text that suggested a connection between Gigas and Shiva and I couldn't find it unfortunately, so I corrected my post until an actual connection is made. Sorry for the mis-information. ^^ 

 

Still, there is also no evidence that suggests Elezen worship Shiva either. Nophica and Halone yes, but dragons and primals no. haha

[TheLastCandle]

It's an interesting theory, though it seems unlikely if only because Ishgard was founded by Wildwood, which in turn means it was after the schism that split the Elezen into two clans. Unless the Shiva of antiquity was a prominent figure in the Black Shroud that the undivided Elezen roamed before Gridania's founding - more prominent than Gridania's matron goddess being Nophica would indicate - I'd have to surmise that Shiva and the Elezen sharing pointed ears is a fluke.

 

I'm excited to see what strange new race of Beastmen is introduced with Shiva, whether they turn out to be some predecessor of the Elezen or something else entirely. Since neither Shiva nor her followers seem to be anywhere in sight, could they be hiding in Abalathia's Spine gathering their strength? Or biding their time to let the long winter (and dragons) whittle away at the Ishgardian spirit?

[allgivenover]

I don't know where the hypothesis that Miqo'te are short lived came from, as I can't find anything that suggests they might have a short life span compared to other races. It seems like reasoned speculation that somehow entered RP fanon around here.

 

You could deduce that perhaps many of them die young because of their lifestyle, but that isn't indicative of their natural longevity.

 

Does anyone know how old F'lhaminn is? It's stated that she is Minfilia's adopted mother, and still looks youthful and unchanged in the "A Realm Awoken" quest line - aside from her outfit and glasses. I don't know how long before 1.0 she adopted Minfilia. Although this doesn't tell us anything about Miqo'te longevity, it does suggest that they don't really end up changing much appearance wise.

 

The Nunh in forgotten springs is obviously older, but aside from his white hair (which he may have been born with) and scars, he actually doesn't /look/ all that old.

 

[ansemaru]

The implication I was trying to get at is that perhaps what the Ishgardians assume is Halone is not, in fact, Halone. If an icy goddess comes up to you and says she's your pantheon's icy goddess, are you really going to question her on that?

[TheLastCandle]

The implication I was trying to get at is that perhaps what the Ishgardians assume is Halone is not, in fact, Halone. If an icy goddess comes up to you and says she's your pantheon's icy goddess, are you really going to question her on that?

 

I gathered as much, and I'm not discounting that possibility. It would certainly explain the Archbishop's.. fervor. But unless I misunderstand your theory, it was that devotion to the Primal is responsible for the Elezen's appearance. An unwieldy conclusion if we're only considering Ishgard, given the two clans' origins prior to the founding of that city and Gridania.

[Naunet]

Does anyone know how old F'lhaminn is? It's stated that she is Minfilia's adopted mother, and still looks youthful and unchanged in the "A Realm Awoken" quest line - aside from her outfit and glasses. I don't know how long before 1.0 she adopted Minfilia. Although this doesn't tell us anything about Miqo'te longevity, it does suggest that they don't really end up changing much appearance wise.

 

The Nunh in forgotten springs is obviously older, but aside from his white hair (which he may have been born with) and scars, he actually doesn't /look/ all that old.

 

 

 

 

I think that's more an artifact of Squee's model limitations. All NPCs use face types available in character creation. While there is a more "rugged" looking face for male miqo'te, there is no older face for female miqo'te. Frustrating? Yeah. But I don't think we should use their perfect skin as evidence that they don't age much.

[allgivenover]

That's a fine - and not unlikely - interpretation of how things are portrayed.

 

Unfortunately when making evidence based conclusions we can only go on what we know as certain and not what we believe should be valid or invalid. We can't know if these portrayals of older Miqo'te are by choice or forced due to PS3 limitations unless SE comes out and states it explicitly. Which they have not.

 

After all, there are older Hyur and Elezen models, so why did they leave out Miqo'te, Lalafell, and Roegadyn? Could it be that Miqo'te, Lalafell, and Roegadyn just don't age much when it comes to appearance? Right now there's more evidence in game that they don't change much at all. Asserting that those portrayals are invalid due to your feelings about limitations is a supposition at best.

 

Of course, SE could come out and depict older looking Miqo'te any moment, which would change the evidence supporting my current conclusions. That's the great thing about making conclusions based on evidence, the conclusion can change based on new evidence.

[Naunet]

We can't know if these portrayals of older Miqo'te are by choice or forced due to PS3 limitations unless SE comes out and states it explicitly. Which they have not.

 

We do know that we only have four face options because of "memory limitations" (read: PS3 limitations).

 

Occam's Razor applies here. Female miqo'te are built around the "catgirl" fantasy. There is a general perception among narrow-minded individuals that "older" faces are "ugly". An old miqo'te face would sully their precious catgirl fantasy, and we all know that it's a cardinal sin to make an ugly woman in fantasy fiction (especially video games). Therefore, our four options are restricted to only degrees of young beautiful.

[Twinflame]

After all, there are older Hyur and Elezen models, so why did they leave out Miqo'te, Lalafell, and Roegadyn? Could it be that Miqo'te, Lalafell, and Roegadyn just don't age much when it comes to appearance? Right now there's more evidence in game that they don't change much at all. Asserting that those portrayals are invalid due to your feelings about limitations is a supposition at best.

 

No, that's backwards. It's not feelings to say that your evidence is not actually evidence: it's an assertion. She provided a claim, warrant, grounds. Asserting that portrayals aren't invalid because of game mechanics is, imho, supposition as best. Sort of like back in TERA when certain people assumed that the world had no day or night because day/night cycles weren't programmed into game. We should assume races do get old except where informed otherwise, as is the case with Padjal and Lalafel. The fact that character creation is intensely restrictive is perfectly valid support for this.

 

 

 

Using F'lhimmin's unchanged appearance as evidence seems like a reach to me not just because of model limitations (which are a very valid and permissible reason that certain evidence may not hold much weight) but also because it's only been five years and that's not very long. There's no reason to think that F'lhimmin would have aged visibly during that time.

 

 

 

I like the idea of Roegadyn as long-lived and do recall the Pugilist quest-line. I think that was a good bit of evidence there, as the age disparity between Hamon and his rival was a plot-point. It was not stated that Roes were longer lived, but Hamon had aged, and his enemy was still at full strength. It's possible that Hamon was just a gret deal older than his rival when they last fought, though, so in the end it's just a theory I like. not one I can really support.

 

 

and we all know that it's a cardinal sin to make an ugly woman in fantasy fiction (especially video games).

 

Unless she's a crone, bad guy, or there for comedy exclusively.

[TheLastCandle]

For what it's worth, none of the facial options for any of the races look particularly "old" to me. Perhaps advanced middle-age at best, in the case of Elezen and Hyur, though you can make these look much older with silver, white, or grey hair and/or beards.

 

There is one Miqo'te face that looks fairly middle aged to me. It's less pronounced than it is on the Hyur and Elezen models, but there's faint wrinkling at the eyes. (Again, with facial hair options, it becomes more apparent.) I think it's fair to entertain the possibility that Miqo'te age more gracefully than Hyur based on that. At the same time, I've always supposed that we're choosing our character's appearances based on an age range that would be common among adventurers.

[Jomoru]

Does anyone know how old F'lhaminn is? It's stated that she is Minfilia's adopted mother, and still looks youthful and unchanged in the "A Realm Awoken" quest line - aside from her outfit and glasses. I don't know how long before 1.0 she adopted Minfilia. Although this doesn't tell us anything about Miqo'te longevity, it does suggest that they don't really end up changing much appearance wise.

 

The Nunh in forgotten springs is obviously older, but aside from his white hair (which he may have been born with) and scars, he actually doesn't /look/ all that old.

 

 

 

 

 

I think that's more an artifact of Squee's model limitations. All NPCs use face types available in character creation. While there is a more "rugged" looking face for male miqo'te, there is no older face for female miqo'te. Frustrating? Yeah. But I don't think we should use their perfect skin as evidence that they don't age much.

 

 

Counterpoint she's not treated as an old woman in the search. The people who you talk to treat her as if she is still in the prime of her life. Its not a perfect example but beauty does generally fade.

[Rickter]

 

Does anyone know how old F'lhaminn is? It's stated that she is Minfilia's adopted mother, and still looks youthful and unchanged in the "A Realm Awoken" quest line - aside from her outfit and glasses. I don't know how long before 1.0 she adopted Minfilia. Although this doesn't tell us anything about Miqo'te longevity, it does suggest that they don't really end up changing much appearance wise.

 

The Nunh in forgotten springs is obviously older, but aside from his white hair (which he may have been born with) and scars, he actually doesn't /look/ all that old.

 

 

see i didnt get this impression and i took Filhaminn's white hair as old age and attributed her youthful appearance to game model limitations.

[allgivenover]

We can't know if these portrayals of older Miqo'te are by choice or forced due to PS3 limitations unless SE comes out and states it explicitly. Which they have not.

 

We do know that we only have four face options because of "memory limitations" (read: PS3 limitations).

 

Occam's Razor applies here. Female miqo'te are built around the "catgirl" fantasy. There is a general perception among narrow-minded individuals that "older" faces are "ugly". An old miqo'te face would sully their precious catgirl fantasy, and we all know that it's a cardinal sin to make an ugly woman in fantasy fiction (especially video games). Therefore, our four options are restricted to only degrees of young beautiful.

 

 

Occam's Razor applies to both arguments because they are both equal in their simplicity. You are misunderstanding me, I am not claiming to know, I am simply saying that your supposition of limitations is not enough for a conclusion.

 

I noticed that your main Antimony is a Miqo'te who you portray as looking middle-aged, thus you have a vested interest in your interpretation. I understand that you would want the situation to support your characters vision, but as it stands we have too much evidence for both arguments to discard either.

 

Edit: Find me a Miqo'te who appears to have aged as Hyur or Elezen do and I will discard my ideas immediately, This is not a personal crusade I am interested in waging, I'm just not seeing the evidence to conclude either way - this is why I've removed the issue from my own character by playing a young Miqo'te.

[Rickter]

you know. . .. the fact that there arent any older looking mi'qote in the game may support my initial speculation that mi'qote have shorter life spans than the other races

 

they simply dont live long enough to get old!

[allgivenover]

You can put it under support for your claim yes, but it still suffers from the same short-fall as the other claims. Just not enough evidence to say with certainty.

[Rickter]

then we should drop this entire thread because it was started and based on speculation as the actual life spans have not been announced or have been made known to us the players.  so youre basically saying we shouldnt talk about it because we dont know when thats the whole point of this thread i thought.

[Naunet]

 

 

Edit: Find me a Miqo'te who appears to have aged as Hyur or Elezen do and I will discard my ideas immediately, This is not a personal crusade I am interested in waging, I'm just not seeing the evidence to conclude either way - this is why I've removed the issue from my own character by playing a young Miqo'te.

 

I simply don't think it's an issue at all. If there was any unusual aging traits regarding the miqo'te, the lore would likely have something to say about it (as it does regarding elezen and lalafell). That there are no "older" options for female miqo'te faces in character creation is no different than there being no older options for female Eth (or... uh, all the other races) in Rift - but one certainly couldn't say that their races don't age. Likewise, there aren't any aged faces for any of the females of races (and even some of the males) in TERA, but that doesn't mean the races don't age; in fact, the only exception regarding aging - elin - is explicitly explained in lore.

 

You're mistaking artistic tendencies towards beautiful women as lore, and that really isn't a reliable source of evidence.

[Twinflame]

It makes more sense to  say that things are normal as opposed to unusual until we have any evidence at all that things are unusual. I don't see any good reason to think that Miqo'te do not live to be older, therefore they live to be older. Until we are told otherwise. It is less simple to say that Miqo'te age unusually, so applying Occam's Razor says they do not.

 

see i didnt get this impression and i took Filhaminn's white hair as old age and attributed her youthful appearance to game model limitations.

 

To be honest while I was doing the quests I got the sense that F'lhaminn was just a very attractive older woman (sorry to disturb the young people on the site, but people over 50 can also be sexy), but now I'm thinking the white hair is just SE being SE and giving as many important characters white hair as possible. This isn't to say that she isn't older, but a lot of people don't start showing obvious signs of age until well into middle-age, which she may not be yet. We simply have no idea if she's supposed to be old or not.

 

The above paragraph will not make sense to people who think that 40 is old.

[Jomoru]

you know. . .. the fact that there arent any older looking mi'qote in the game may support my initial speculation that mi'qote have shorter life spans than the other races

 

they simply dont live long enough to get old!

 

That would be life expectancy vs life spans

[Haven's Fox]

All I can think about are the race parallels between XIV and XI. If anything I think that is the safe bet in looking for the average life span for the current races but taken with skepticism being a different game world.

[Dakki]

On the subject of old Miqo'te...

(Spoiler tag seems to be broken, so IF YOU DON'T WANNA SEE A SPOILER, DON'T SCROLL DOWN.

STOP.

STOP SCROLLING.

That should be fair warning.

Stahp.)

 

 

 

 

F'lhaminn. Though her model still appears youthful, her hair has greyed considerably in the space of five years. One might think this speaks volumes for Miqo'te ageing.

[Kismet]

The spoiler doesn't bother me, cuz I already knew, but there ARE spoiler tags you could use... Just sayin'. :lol:

[pas]

I think that someone already mentioned this, but it's unnecessarily humankind-centric to assume that all of the races have similar signs of ageing.

 

The lack of faces is analogous to the lack of body types. There aren't a lot of body type options, either: e.g. you can't make a fat character. You are allowed to choose from a spectrum of chiselled to lean. This should not lead to the assumption that fat people, skinny people, emaciated people, or apple-, hourglass-, pear-, or etc. shaped people do not exist in the world.

 

Therefore, surely older and younger folks of every race exist, especially with their own physical characteristics indicating as much. The relevant question of the thread is how old terms "older" and "oldest" indicate for each race. The arguments based on character creation aesthetic have little basis and seem to have caused a spot of digression from the original topic.

[Jomoru]

On the subject of old Miqo'te...

(Spoiler tag seems to be broken, so IF YOU DON'T WANNA SEE A SPOILER, DON'T SCROLL DOWN.

STOP.

STOP SCROLLING.

That should be fair warning.

Stahp.)

 

 

 

 

F'lhaminn. Though her model still appears youthful, her hair has greyed considerably in the space of five years. One might think this speaks volumes for Miqo'te ageing.

 

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F'lhaminn

 

 

*Looks at 1.0 pic. Looks at ARR pic* I don't see her having Greyed considerably. She looks like she's always had white hair.

[Rickter]

oh wow, that rests the case on Filhaminn. . .

 

but its interesting on how they chose to give her eye glasses in ARR. . .