Spiritual Machine

Oh, I could see there being a different tone, if only because of how the community is being organized and executed there, and who is doing it. I wouldn't go presuming from that that Balmung will end up being a server that is inflexible and set in its ways, whatever that may imply. I never really thought the other communities going to Gilgamesh would be a big deal to you guys in the first place. You probably won't be bothered by them often, if at all. The issue of whether or not Redditors and such are going to Gilgamesh is something I would expect some of the folks going there to think about, if only because I do believe a lot of them left in the first place to avoid a middling number of people that they didn't like. Well, there's no such thing as a perfect server. As a 4chan user, you'd probably be aware that /vg/ is one of the boards that doesn't allow explicit mature content, so you ARE safe to click that link. I think people are still freaking out about the Redditors though, and about three or four other clashing communities. As if 4chan really is the worst place on the internet (for my money, that distinction goes to Tumblr). EDIT: This is an off-topic response to Rock Sandbourne's posts.

I read that thread, actually. I'm surprised that you're surprised--most of the people who responded in that advertising thread took it the same way. That is, negatively. Also from that thread: "If you're a roleplayer, you know exactly what kind of pecking order I'm hinting at. You type brb ooc at the wrong gala, and suddenly you're on The Blacklist. This is incredibly destructive, socially. If you haven't seen this in action personally, ask around." I don't personally know any of the "Legacy players," which I assume is a term for the older members of Balmung. However, what I keep seeing on various other forums makes me think that many of proponents of starting a new RP server and moving people to a new RP server are doing it because they just don't like some of the people on Balmung, and there's no better reason than that. Here's a quote from the leader of one of Gilgamesh's more prominent guilds: "We were initially going Balmung, but we've had a few bad experiences with the Legacy players though. So, we're talking it over again. "There will be a full character wipe after beta three ends anyway, so we just need to sort it out before B4. Gilgamesh is starting to look like a quite viable option." I feel like both sides have something to consider from this. From what I've seen, people on this site have been nothing but friendly and helpful to us newbies. I didn't pay attention to who in particular, though many of those folks were staff here, so I'd say a lot of those helpful folks were from Balmung. Well, I don't know who on Balmung has been giving "Legacy players" a bad name, but you guys need to keep up the good work, and don't fall into bad habits. Evidently you upset some people at some point, and if you let bad habits drive new players off of Balmung, then let's face it--Balmung will turn into a stale relic. Not to mention that the last thing any of us need is a further divided FFXIV RP community. As for Gilgamesh folks, the "Legacy players" won't even be in the majority when the servers open. New roleplayers will rule the roost, and we'll have to all get along. The idea of a pecking order, and a server run by bullies, is not only ridiculous, but I've seen the same things said about Gilgamesh's LS community. It's all stone-throwing, and it's kinda silly. To those of you who are just going to Gilgamesh and encouraging others to go because you don't like some of the older players, or are afraid of them, do you think that's wise? Is it wise to run from a whole server because of a few jerks? Well, Gilgamesh is bound to have its share of jerks, all things considered. So if that's why you weren't happy on Balmung, you won't be happy on Gilgamesh either. I'll echo the tired sentiment of "why can't we all just get along?" but only because it's pretty clear that we aren't.

That is where you are 100% completely incorrect. On a realm where NOBODY has max level characters, if someone is having trouble with something? It'll be get some friends of equal level, and band together to conquer the hurdle. On a legacy realm? It'll be "Hold on guys, lemme switch to level 50 PLD lel". Even if a lot of legacy players aren't max level, people will still call max level friends, etc... Sure, this'll happen on non-legacy realms too... Eventually. Not for a little while. I plan to enjoy that while I can. See the problem? No. Most content scales you down to its level anyway, not unlike other games. EDIT: Someone else already mentioned the Level Sync system. My bad. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2540&pid=30825#pid30825 http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2540&pid=30829#pid30829 It was known, during the poll. Judging by the fact that the original post had 40 votes for Gilgamesh, I'd say it'll take at least that many for us to officially change it. Forty of you won't get the word out to all of the people on the beta forums and elsewhere who are advertising for the Gilgamesh community, and forty of you won't change the minds of all of those people who are holding fast to the idea of soldiering on into Gilgamesh. You're well past the point of no return. The community doesn't have a leader or a website, and the RPC admin already told you how you could go about changing what y'all already decided on, and it's not gonna be via a poll. This thread is looking pretty vain now, don't you think?

I came in after the vote, but I always wondered something. Putting the secondary server to a vote seemed to encourage division in the community in the first place. And not to mention, people still aren't happy with that gesture, as the poll clearly shows... And you're making this hard line on "supporting" servers, even though some of our community--roleplayers as a whole--will be on Gilgamesh, Behemoth, Leviathan, Tonberry, etc. So... why did you guys never think to just make a subforum for Other Servers instead of just one for Gilgamesh? Heck, why don't you guys just do that now, so that the RPC staff doesn't have to weigh in on this debacle?

Sorry but The only thing I lead there was my own guild and at one time being one of the leaders of the tavern guild I lead. I've also stated that I'm not the leader of anything many times. So please do tell. Ah, I remember you now, and the infamous Golden Sun. Man, that takes me back. On topic though, I knew I wasn't the only one who's been nothing but impressed by this community's vets. Heck, I thought some of my topics would be provocative to them, because I challenged the roleplay of many when I first got involved here. Did the vets rage? No, they had a civil discussion with me and laid out the lore. I left the discussion knowing more about the game than when I came into it. It's been a while since I've been able to enjoy that level of maturity on an RP forum in a thread where people were disagreeing. I've been in communities that were helpful and friendly and mature--GW2's community is still that way. But it's forum is a mess when differing perspectives start to clash. But very few of you are out there looking for a fight. I can respect that. Now, I can believe the folks who say that they had problems with "Legacy players" in-game in the past. But the past is past. Are those divisive people still around? Have they turned over a new leaf? Are grudges necessary? I'm afraid that I've not had the opportunity to see the splitting of the RP community as anything but that--a grudge war. I've seen people flat out refuse to set up shop on Balmung because of nebulous negative past experiences. I've seen people discourage others from going to Balmung because of "blacklists" and "pecking orders". All of that negativity, all of that anger, and the condition of Gilgamesh's population, have convinced me to stick with the larger community. This isn't a slam against Gilgamesh--there are many people promoting many different "unofficial non-Legacy RP servers," and I don't know all or any of those people. I don't know many who are going to Gilgamesh and I cannot predict its future. But regardless of server affiliations, I've seen people rally and roil against Balmung and the folks who are sticking with it. And I cannot for the life of me understand why.

With all due respect to you and to this community, people polling interest in a thread doesn't mean much when it comes to practical application. Even I'm interested, and I'm not sure it's a service I'd ever have good opportunity to utilize. There's not a thing wrong with the idea on paper, but the issue of finding jobs, and requiring legwork on the part of the participants to establish relationships IC and OOC for the purpose of having consistent work is a very real issue in practice. Additionally, the GW2 community on the whole was about as cool as this one, and that community expressed general interest in the idea of a courier service as well, especially since the carrier pigeon method already required a lot of handwaving to work (How does that bird always know exactly where I am, even underwater?). But in the end, moogle mail and carrier pigeon are both instant and really convenient (compare to the WoW mail system), and simply pretending that the message or package was delivered by someone else entirely still doesn't stimulate courier RP on its own. I still agree that the best thing to be done is have a courier service be attached to a larger guild concept, to give people something to fall back on, keep things from being dull between jobs, and let other guild members handle the networking aspect that the courier service requires.

I hate to contribute to the more pessimistic viewpoint, but Ildur is right. A payment system will only discourage people from using what is already a very fragile and community-dependent idea. And yeah, you're going to need heavy support from other guilds on the server just to get this off the ground. With the convenience and privacy of Moogle Mail, both IC and OOC, most roleplayers will opt for sending messages in that fashion rather than chancing relying on a third-party to further their RP. In the previous communities I've been in, people have either played to have mail drop-off points within locations that can receive mail, or if they've fallen off the grid then they receive messages through friends and contacts who haven't. I have seen what it takes to get a Courier Guild to work, and I've seen one fall through. Folks from Guild Wars 2 may remember the player-run Pan-Tyrian Courier Service. My guild was one of their allies, of which they sadly had few. We were working with them at one point to expand their influence. Because people tend to trust their messages with friends and RP partners and seek more unusual ways to deliver messages only at pertinent points in their RP arcs and stories, you run into the trouble of having to be close partners with every one of the guilds that would ever use your service. And you have to be partners with every one, because they will only rarely utilize your service, so consistent RP will come from having many guilds on your contact list. This RP may be too slow for some folks, as well. Part of PTCS's problem was that they couldn't find many people interested in playing a courier. You will have these problem, as well as the problem that every one of a Courier Guild's members have to be dedicated enough to the idea to help out with making and maintaining connections, and reminding people that you exist. So it's a two-way street of needing proactive and patient member and many, many interested customers in order to keep the operation flowing. And it's a lot of work, which is why PTCS was eventually forced to close shop. I am not discouraging the idea, which sounds interesting and has potential, but I've seen what it takes. It will not work if your way of thinking is, "well, it seems simple enough, so I'll give it a shot." Courier Guilds require more active participation and work than Medical Guilds do, and you need to be dedicated to the idea, and you need to pounce on all the interested guilds in this thread and cling to their support, or frankly you'll just be wasting your free time being frustrated. One idea I can offer for someone interested in providing the RP community with a courier service is to make it a small part of a larger guild. The larger guild's officers and members can focus on drumming up general allies and support, and all of the members can pitch in to do deliveries while also being able to engage in other guild content. Believe me, not many people want to join a guild just to be a courier, cool as that sounds on paper. Whatever you do, good luck.

Yes, this is exactly my sentiment. @Rhynka, I'm not here to provoke anything, no. I was only trying to be helpful by offering a bit of perspective. First, I was explaining what it was people viewed as improper about the posts your husband is apologizing for, since he wasn't certain about that. Second, I was presenting the idea that in addition to unduly insulting people on the forum and lashing out in a really unnecessary and unfriendly manner might make you look bad to people who are just reading the thread you're posting in, hurting your reputation. I offered that I wouldn't judge you guys based on that perception, since it had all seemed like a misunderstanding, but I don't think you're helping matters by getting defensive again. We're all being friendly here, or so I thought. Let's just chill out about everything. No one's trying to ostracize anyone. Stuff happens.

Personally, I just wouldn't make any claim that the lore supports any unconventional style of battle between a nuhn and a challenger until more detailed information is offered to us. I believe FreelanceWizard is not incorrect at least in saying that different tribes, divisions and individual combatants within tribes may choose to battle in whatever way they want to set up in their roleplay without us having to claim improperly that the lore explicitly allows for this. Just as some (likely a minority of) Miqo'te live a strictly non-tribal lifestyle, personal choice is allowed to run counter to tradition where it does not completely disregard its relevance. Trying to play with the definition of "battle" and "survives" in order to make the lore say what you want it to say, however, is downright silly. I also want to note, as I said in a previous discussion, that there is a fine line between playing a Miqo'te that--for one reason or another--is entirely detached from the tribal lifestyle, and playing what amounts to a Hyur with fuzzy cat features. The difference is in the presentation of the hallmarks of a Miqo'te's heritage in their approach to the world: ingrained curiosity or reservation, a psychological inclination toward family structures, the perspective of a wiry and agile creature in a world of less lithe and dexterous people, the advantages and perils of a hound-like sense of smell, slightly different grooming habits and dealing with non-human body parts, a perspective informed by instincts that have been bred into the race, odd sleep cycles and feelings about weather, senses that behave differently from other races (directional hearing from adjustable ears, eyes ideally attuned to certain amounts of light), family history, non-human familial structure and upbringing, traditions, habits and culture passed on by parents, an outsider perspective of being different from others and a minority, and on and on. To offer a rule of thumb, if you're not taking any of this into consideration, your non-tribal Miqo'te may as well be a Hyur. As a non-white person who was raised by a white family, I'm still a member of the human race, but you better believe my experience in life has been a unique and sometimes challenging one. Even if you never see a non-tribal Miqo'te address these experiences in-game--as you will probably never see me address my experiences in real life--that does not make them insignificant or non-existent. If you are not taking advantage of the non-tribal Miqo'te's entirely unique perspective of the world in the story you tell and the development you offer the character, what is the point, really? Ask yourself if you actually just want to play a cat person without all of that complicated tribal lore stuff.

True. But do we know what the regional dialects are? I mean, it's not a bad idea, but here's the scenario I've run into in the past with roleplayers using that explanation for a unique accent: They end up being from a region that my character is from, but I'm not representing any sort of regional accent in my roleplay and/or I and my character don't recognize the accent from interactions with other PCs/NPCs from that region. So the issue, really, is establishing a standard. Are there any in FFXIV? (I mean, aside from Limsa's "pirate" accent, anyway...)

Oh, there's certainly a link to those languages. Many of the languages are lost though, particularly for the non-Hyuran races and cultures. The lore tells us that the ancient Roegadyn language is lost to them, and that over time the original pronunciations of many Miqo'te words in their language were lost. As for the Hyur, their thing is that they came from other lands and settled in Eorzea. Many other lands, in fact--they are apparently the most populous race in the world. Differences in the naming conventions of Highland Hyur and Garlean Hyur may hint at unique bygone languages. But on Eorzea, they all seem to speak the same language. I could be wrong about this of course, but it's possible that the lore is espousing that the Hyur have a variety of languages and traditions throughout the entire world, rather than simply in Eorzea.

Even though the Miqo'te population is incredibly low in Eorzea compared to literally any other race on the continent, it wouldn't be unheard of for a tribe to become isolated, especially a Keeper tribe, given how they operate. A lot of the continent is known of, but doesn't seem to be heavily explored. However, keep in mind that if an isolated Keeper Miqo'te tribe in Eorzea spoke a language other than modern Eorzean, it would likely only be the ancient Miqo'te language or a limited derivative thereof. This sorta limits your options as far as an accent goes. Hard aitches, hissing/spitting sounds in pronunciations, and... I don't know, maybe trilled r's. Or maybe that's just Mithra. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61150-Miqo-te-Naming-Conventions This page sorta hints at the Miqo'te language being one of harsh sounds, so I'd predict a harsh accent. Maybe something akin to many Middle Eastern accents? Apropos of this topic, I see a trend when it comes to this topic from one game to the next. A lot of roleplayers seem to dislike it when others point out something in the lore that limits their ability to creatively use a favored concept, especially when that concept is a foreign language/accent. Yet, when it comes to making ones character unique, I have to wonder why having an improbable accent is so popular, to where people will invent reasons to have one. What does having an accent add to a character? How does it enrich their interactions and development? If the answer involves an alien perspective of the modern world, why is an alternative language (or especially an alternative accent) in particular so important for expressing this characteristic? I think that every roleplayer using an unusual but popular quality to make their character unique should question whether it is a trait that affects how the character could develop, or if it's just a trope that makes for a handy label.

I'm not sure how people can complain about godmoding and metagaming with regard to these senses if the following things are true: 1.) If people aren't forcing others to acknowledge their supersenses, or making a big stink about it. People who godmode using these senses were probably already the sort of ignorant or unsavory folk who use godmoding regardless of lore support, and don't play well with others. 2.) If most of the time the people using these senses have to ask to hear the whispers, follow the trail, see the sights and know the information that the roleplayer themselves doesn't know OOC. You have to actually know the stuff in order to metagame it. 3.) The people using these senses politely ask if they're allowed to use them in a given roleplay scene, and there's some OOC collaboration about it. And most importantly: 4.) If this game is anything at all like FFXI, then there are magical spells and cheap, easy-to-obtain alchemy concoctions that can completely hide a person or thing from sight, make something or someone completely silent, or completely mask a scent. So if you need a reason for someone's supersense not to work (for plot purposes), that ought to be easy to handle while also adhering to the lore.

I think I can help. You see, when discussing a topic or refuting someone's comment, it's usually in bad form to mock and insult people, and generally approach others in an angry and hostile tone and manner for the purposes of expressing an opinion. This is especially the case when it's possible that the target of this reaction may have misconstrued their intentions. Most of communication, after all, has less to do with what is said than how it's said. The tone and such. And perhaps the tone of these angrier posts was also misconstrued, but a number of people had the same reaction to those, and the insults were definitely real. All told, I wasn't involved in that debacle at all, but I read the whole thing. You yourself don't appear to me to be the one who got inflammatory. I don't know if you should be apologizing for both you and Rhynka, especially if you're not sure what was said that made things in that last thread go so pear-shaped. Personally I don't think that saving face is a very brave maneuver like other people here do. No one wants to be persecuted, after all. However, the fact that you made a whole new thread to acknowledge that something went wrong and express remorse for that is a pretty decent thing to do. It's not the courage that is important, I think, so much as it is the degree of self-awareness that this shows. In a community like this one where for the most part we much moderate ourselves, self-awareness is something that decent people ought to have. I believe you when you say that you didn't mean to cause upset or harm, and for my part I'm not gonna hold it against you.

I'm not sure that separate discussions are necessary at this point. Especially not now when it appears that discussion in general has gotten a tad derailed. But also because the discussion has very little to do with biology on a technical level and a lot more to do with biology as it relates to Miqo'te society. They aren't different discussions and never were. Biological aspects of mating inform to the general perspective of the race, which informs to society, which informs to trends in the racial culture. I saw a lot of confusing the topic in the last few pages, as well as confusing what the purpose of this thread was in the first place. I'd like to see the discussion get back on track. I saw people talk about the Seekers as if their society was patriarchal, but is it really? Nuhn are rarely leaders, according to the lore--their position as breeding males is viewed by the other Miqo'te as a responsibility, as opposed to a right. The Seekers of the Sun are only seen as having a more patriarchal society when compared to the Keepers of the Moon. The belief of the Seekers is that males are the source of life in the tribe (compare with numerous real-world cultures that view women as the source of new life). And just like in the real world, being the source of life doesn't automatically make you entitled to anything except being used to make new life. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo'te/Naming#Male You can see this in how renegade nuhn usually make out when they try to start their own tribes. New tribes aren't said to die out because of conflicts with other nuhn, but because of a lack of interested females. Seeker tribes aren't entirely akin to lion tribes, no. I don't believe that was an implication anyone was making. Rather, lion tribes are a good place to start when understanding Miqo'te society and how it differs from the sort of strategies common among primates. Funny enough, even lion mating requires a bit of consent from the female... I think saying that Miqo'te should be entirely considered as cats or entirely considered as humans as we know them is a bit narrow-minded. This thread started off as a guideline into the ways Miqo'te might work based on similar societies among felines in nature. But Miqo'te are obviously not any of these felines. Their society is unique, as is their nature and mindset. So no single comparison will fully characterize them--this thread is just a good place to start. Likewise, even a city-born Miqo'te is not just going to be a human with funny ears and a tail, and taking the lazy way out without considering how Miqo'te are different from their neighbors isn't taking full advantage of the unique perspective of this non-human race. They might have different urges, different behaviors ingrained by generations of breeding patterns among their ancestors, and personality traits unique to the race despite what life they are born into. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te#Demeanor The inclination of Miqo'te to keep to themselves and their companions, to maintain a safe little family or "tribe" structure, as well as the particular traits of each clan, these are all probably ingrained into the genes of the race, and ought not be ignored if only for how much more interesting it is to have a perspective in roleplay that isn't generically "human". http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te#Physiology Not to mention that a Miqo'te character would just see and interact with the world differently than other races just by default. Their superior noses would be their most trusted sense, and would change how they perceive the world and characterize the things the observe. Their sense of balance and strength and agility, their sleep cycles, their diets, the fact that their ears are on top of their heads and they have tails--all of these things change how they interact with the world and what they're able to see of it. Just imagine how different your life would be if you were missing a leg, or an eye, or if your eyes were better or worse than they are, or if you were a vegan. No, your personality wouldn't change, but your goals, habits, behaviors, those would change to some degree. Now look at everything that makes a Miqo'te different from a Hyur, even all the sex stuff. (Yes, it can be useful for more than just ERP.) Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

I was ready to agree with you, but I gave the post a more careful read and found that: A.) Callipygian does not get the lore incorrect. This is what they wrote: "The lore indicates that it doesn’t happen, but this is a simplified response. In a true, living system, this would be seen as a pressure against breeding across clans rather than an impenetrable barrier. The idea that one is nocturnal and the other diurnal is frankly laughable as a hard barrier." This is correct in the lore. Additionally: "Cross-racial – This seems even less likely, but there has been a little developer discussion that it could happen, so I’ll consider it for the sake of completeness." This is also correct. They go on to speculate the unlikelihood of other pairings on a logistical level, while not calling them impossible, and speculates that from a biological standpoint the offspring of cross-racial unions would likely be sterile. Now, of course this is a fantasy setting, and since SE is considering adding cross-race character options to the game in the future, it's dubious that they would let their fertility options be so bleak. But as Callipygian stated: "Little of this information is official lore, but it is informed by modern biological research into species with similar reproductive strategies. You are free to use or disregard this information as you see fit when developing your own Miqo’te backstory." Which brings me to: B.) This information is incredibly informative, I think, if only for the purposes of psychologically and sociologically characterizing a Miqo'te roleplaying character or the entire Miqo'te race in contrast with our own. While biological factors might not be fully accurate, utilizing a real-world perspective when considering Miqo'te allow us to understand better how a strange social and cultural system like the Miqo'te race could function, and what sort of mentality and emotional nature and desires and perspectives on life a member of such an inhuman species could have. I think that such a perspective on norms is valuable for character creation. Because, and I really want to stress this, despite the fantasy nature of settings like this one, roleplayers commonly apply their personal, human views of morality, ethics, ideals, love, sex, sexuality, gender, biology, chemistry, religion, attraction, desire, psychology, sociology, philosophy, history, measurement, physics, magical lore, social structure, law, justice, civil rights, social justice, politics, political correctness, personal perspectives, lifestyles, and other social constructs and perceptions exclusive only to us real people. How is it any less fair to the fantasy setting to consider these factors for non-human creatures?

To your first and second paragraphs, yes, that would possibly be true for members of different races who have had no previous exposure to Eorzea's common tongue. OR their ancient languages are lost to some other common tongue in some other land. Not to mention that common has perhaps spread beyond Eorzea through trade with other continents by sea, which is something that happens. It's hard to say. If you wanted to play a member of a race who spoke some "racial language," you'd probably be a very isolated member of that race, from another land entirely, and your own people in Eorzea wouldn't understand your tongue. To your third paragraph, I didn't suggest that the OP demanded anything, nor did anyone. When you put it that way, it makes things sound rather more heated than they are, don't you think? To your addendum, there are a lot of subjective ways to approach taking creative liberties with the lore, and roleplayers rarely agree on some kind of standard with that. However the fewer liberties one takes in the name of personal tastes, the more compatible their character's lore is with the world that the majority of roleplayers acknowledge. That's just a helpful rule of thumb. That said, I think the lore's pretty clear on how racial languages are handled in Eorzea.

Yeah, do keep Raptor in mind. I know Growly Beast is playing a Raptor Nuhn with a pre-established chunk carved out of the tribe, possibly made up of other players. That may or may not be of interest to you Seeker folks. Also, of course Balmung's going to be the community favorite in a poll--there are simply more roleplayers on Balmung than on Gilgamesh. I think that if the Gilgamesh folks want to establish something like this project on a smaller scale on their server, they could make a thread about it in the Gilgamesh Directory. That way everyone can be happy.

I don't think it's okay to simply assume that a race has a native tongue that it knows of just because you believe it "makes more sense". This is a fantasy setting after all, with a very different history and timeline than the one that resulted in the conventions of the real world. It is hard to say whether such conventions can possibly be applicable. If the lore doesn't say that they do, go with that. Don't go with "it doesn't say that they don't"--it doesn't say that the Hyur don't have their own language, or even that the Hyur don't have five languages. It's safer to simply not presume. I'll show you why. Of all the races, only the Roegadyn and the Miqo'te have been mentioned in the lore to have a racial language. Of the Roegadyn: "...[M]any Roegadyn words have been forgotten after generations of disuse, with only popular terms being passed down through names. Every so often, however, a new (or should I say old) word is rediscovered in an ancient tome and added to the list for further generations to use (or ignore)." http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61152-Roegadyn-Naming-Conventions So their language is dead. The Roegadyn don't speak it at all, because much of it is lost to them. Of the Miqo'te: "The names of these tribes contained many sounds which were difficult to represent with the existing Eorzean alphabet; but the fact that there were the same exact number of tribes as letters in the Eorzean alphabet was taken as a sign that they were destined to make the new realm their home, and so assigned each tribe with a letter/sound that was closest to its name. Over time, this resulted in the changing of the pronunciation to more closely resemble the pronunciation of the Eorzean letter than that of the original word." The Miqo'te came to Eorzea during the Fifth Umbral Era, at least fifteen hundred years prior to the present time. And when they came over, they began adopting the way of speaking that the locals used. If they had a language, it could very well be dead to them by now, as the original pronunciations of many of their words have been lost to time. Of the Elezen, SE tells us that their names have French pronunciations, but they also tell us that the Elezen don't know why that is the case: "One will also notice that some of the Elezen names appear familiar to those of the Hyur. "Louis vs Louisoix Eugene vs Eugenaire Arthur vs Arthurioux "Gwen vs Gwenolie Hilda vs Hildie "There are Eorzean historians who believe that these similarities in names may be proof that the two races are of similar origin─’open-minded’ Hyuran historians claiming the Elezen are a bastard race spun off from the Hyurs (and not the other way around). Elezen historians, on the other hand, simply deny any blood relation whatsoever." Their naming conventions are ancient, but neither the Hyur nor the Elezen are mentioned as having conventions in some racial language that explain these conventions. The Elezen have been on Eorzea for thousands of years, whereas the Hyur came onto the continent a thousand years ago. So it isn't even clear who was using the "common tongue" first. But it's stereotypical to consider the "common" or "default" language to be that of FFXIV's "human" race. TLDR, the lore contradicts the idea of the five main races having unique spoken tongues among them, and the idea that the common tongue is the Hyuran tongue isn't even something that can be confirmed. So it might be rather dodgy to roleplay that you can speak "Ancient Roegadyn," or to speak French in-game as an "Elezen language." As for the Echo and how it allows people to understand the languages of other races, well... isn't that handy for understanding beastmen, dragons, and ancient runes, rather than common races that do regular business in every city-state?

Let's not forget that according to the lore, It's one breeding male to 10-50 females in a Seeker tribe on average, depending on size. Miqo'te are all over the place in Eorzea, despite being the least populous race of the five major ones. Not to mention that the females are way more populous, and the males more rare. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe that there could be more nuhn than there are tia in a given tribe, and much more genetic diversity and reasoning for promoting a tia to a nuhn. So while in order to become a nuhn, a tia has to conquer a nuhn, there could be plenty of space in a tribe for many tia to replace older nuhn, or for a tia who has proven himself to become a nuhn to a population of tribal females. As long as we're talking about what is practical rather than what is strictly described to us in the lore, this is a practical possibility. There could also be incest involved, particularly in smaller tribes, if only because males are rare across the board. Maybe different tribes handle things differently, though it would be troublesome to make presumptions about tribal conventions. For now it may not be a bad idea to gloss over the messier details until more of us are able to see the world and the various tribes and the way they behave. SE has stated that they intend to explore a lot of these issues through quests and events. So it's just a matter of time before we know for certain.

http://www.novacrystallis.com/2013/02/final-fantasy-xiv-a-realm-reborn-interview-with-producerdirector-naoki-yoshida/ Nova Crystallis: How is progress on the vanity slot system coming along? Will it still be released in a later patch or might it make it for the official release? Yoshida: The design is already in the system, so it’s just deciding when to implement it. If we sort of add that slot to the UI now it won’t work straight away so it’s just about the timing. I probably won’t add it in the beginning because it might be too complicated and won’t look great, so maybe in six month’s time. In others words, armor slots exclusively for your character's appearance are an upcoming feature.

For my part, I think that there's nothing wrong with Crystalline responding to these concerns in this thread. Quite the contrary. My agreement with Rhynka has to do with the fact that a good number of Crystalline members have been responding. I doubt that there are any bad intentions, mind, but it makes the thread seem kinda crowded with all these people saying "now wait, that's not the case" and some of them simply repeating Eva's explanations, and it can be intimidating. Again, I don't think y'all mean to be. Of course you have a right to be defensive, given that some folks out there are clearly saying bad stuff about Crystalline, and many people do have these misconceptions about the guild. However, when I say you're coming off as defensive, I mean that in a very particular way. People just coming into this thread could get the impression that it's a thread asking for feedback, but when people give their feedback, a bunch of folks jump in and say "But you're wrong about that!" I just think that having one person respond on behalf of Crystalline might make things neater and less cluttered, and more effectively convey the desired attitude. It's just a suggestion though--it's possible that that sort of misconception isn't happening at all in this thread.

If that's your fear, I'm not sure that having that "tabula rasa" effect is worth finding a new server devoid of roleplayers just because of a fear of queues. You might not even care about the fact that you started fresh two months after the game launches, but you will care if you pick a server outside of the scope of the RP community. Unless you're not interested in roleplay, that is.

I believe Rhynka has a point. Folks from Crystalline have been swooping into the thread to offer their opinions and to offer counterpoints to the honest critiques being given by others. I know it's probably not the intention, but that does come off as a bit defensive. If nothing else, it seems unnecessary. If it's just Eva responding to concerns in her style of making one post addressing each individual, that's pretty okay, helpful and positive. The presence of Crystalline members responding with "I don't think that that's the case" and such will if anything only discourage discussion, and undermine the purpose of this thread: to clarify any misconceptions about Crystalline and present it as an open, friendly and inclusive community. And yes, I know the Crystalline members have been friendly and nice so far. It still looks weird, though.

Personally, I did not believe that you intended to stir the pot. It's just been a hot topic as of late. Threads that begin with "Hello I'm not trying to stoke any flames..." are a symptom of the issue we need to address, not the cause. Folks need to remember that before they make any determinations about the OP. That said, it's good that people are going out of their way to stifle these flames before they start. Anyway~ The problem you're facing with your server choice is one of long-term issues. Will the qualities of a Legacy server corrupt the economy, the community, the number of lowbies in lowbie zones? Personally, I think it's highly unlikely. In a few months, the term "Legacy server" will mean nothing, because Legacy players are after all in limited supply, and so is their money. Of these, many of them will re-roll on other servers anyway, or roll new characters. The pre-established community is not a negative either, but a positive, because near as anyone can tell it's a healthy community. Time will tell more certainly, however. Likewise, will a server that is popular among 4chan and Reddit users result in a caustic and hostile community for players and roleplayers alike? Probably not. Those are big communities, but as we all certainly must know, there is a loud and vulgar minority that often represents a community improperly to outsiders. It is just as plausible that Gilgamesh will receive an influx of Redditors and folks from /v/ who are helpful and skillful with the game, and tolerant of the way others play. Perhaps such a crowd is less receptive of roleplayers, but that could also be due to our poor representation to them. Time will tell more certainly, however. Are your friends gambling folk? Lay this information on them and tell them which scenario they'd rather take a gamble on. It could help for them to see the choices available from every angle, and to consider whether these are legitimate concerns or whether they're simply being pessimistic.