Spiritual Machine

I expected a mature and reasonable response to my post and I was not disappointed. I agree with your points, Eva. You do strike me as someone who is interested in getting your points across clearly and concisely, which I believe is important in a roleplay community where communication is paramount. I can appreciate that level of consideration, to even go so far as correct your opening post in order to be better understood. We don't often come off clearly the first time we express ourselves to someone. There are a lot of varying perspectives and ideas in communities like these after all. In order to foster the best possible community experience for oneself and others, I believe it's important to be receptive to feedback, willing to acknowledge and correct mistakes, and willing to give mistakes committed by others the benefit of the doubt--as they could have also expressed themselves the wrong way. I'm increasingly impressed by the maturity of this community. I'd like to note that I'm not interested in joining Crystalline at this time, however if this thread is representative of the maturity of its members and of the "Legacy players" that earn so much scorn here and there on other forums, then I'd at the very least be interested in interacting with these people further.

I seem to be prefacing with this a lot, but I'm new. I'm new to the site, to the community and to FFXIV. That said, I'm a former moderator for the Guild Wars 2 Roleplayers community site, a former member of a guild run by one of its administrators, and a guild leader for one of the larger guilds on the Tarnished Coast server. In other words, I have a perspective that could serve to be helpful for this topic. Honestly, it's weird to see anybody making a public post asking for people to provide honest criticism, negative feedback and rumors about their guild, promising that they can be totally honest and expect no reprisal or grudges. Does that ever work? And no offense, but such threads come off as defensive, and so do responses to the criticism by the OP. Granted, you folks in Crystalline have done a good job not seeming crazy, and providing answers that I suppose are helpful to people who may have been confused about your policies. Still, it looks much better publicly to do more private personal inquiries with folks in the community who are in the know. You know, ask around a bit. This kind of thread is just two steps away from airing dirty laundry, either in the posts or the responses. One has to tread cautiously. It makes the thread all the more troubling when it is posted/responded to by an admin or friends of admins. The fact that I feel I must preface this post by saying I hold no ill-will toward Crystalline or the admin staff, no do I intend to, nor do I have any real criticism or comment against Crystalline, is already a discouraging sign. Posting here is a conflict of interest for most members, and providing any useful feedback is potentially worse. It is not that I don't believe that you aren't good folks--you seem cool enough, and have been friendly. But it's the condition of things. There are admins who have very publicly represented Crystalline, and one of them has already popped into this thread. That may be a part of the misconceptions surrounding your guild. See, on GW2RP, the mods were instructed to never represent their guilds, not with banners, not with sigs, not with avatars, not with advertising their guild or posting for their guild or even posting in their guild's thread. The site's admin even adhered to this rule, despite being the leader of an active, recruiting guild. The result? People criticized the mod staff for "unfair" decisions, for vague biases, for pandering, for being all matter of nasty things that nobody cares about. But nobody ever brought up our guilds. And for a time, the admin, a community manager and one of more active mods shared the same guild. Yet guilds were never a topic of critique, because we had a rule that above all else we were to present ourselves as unbiased in every possible way. As a result we were treated as if we had no feelings by angry people, and we were sometimes not even treated like people. However, none of that compromised the integrity of our mod staff, or of the site. And most importantly, it didn't compromise our guilds and the fun we had in them and in-game. I believe that the admins here and that the folks in Crystalline are good people. You've stuck by this game for many years, held together this community site, and have been helpful and welcoming to newcomers, fostering what I feel is a positive overall community atmosphere. However, you guys have a responsibility, as moderators as well as guild leaders. Having responsibilities can sometimes mean sacrificing personal freedom, and I say this as a guild leader myself. Abstain from even the appearance of any wrongdoing, and you will serve your purposes all the better.

I'll toss my feelings in with the rest here. So far it seems like there are some Legacy players whose roleplay does not interest me all that much, however all of the ones I've encountered have been nothing but friendly folks and helpful on this site, patient with newbies and informative with regard to the lore. I say this because I see the number of server choices as being rather unfortunate for this community, as many people I've seen who are going to Gilgamesh seem to be doing so because of some beef with "Legacy players" (Some of them? All of them? No one's been all that specific). The people going to Behemoth are definitely doing so because they don't like this community, I hear. But I'm not going to talk about Legacy players and their detractors. If we take them out of the equation, there's not a great reason to choose Balmung over Gilgamesh, or Gilgamesh over Balmung. I'm not even all that worried about griefers, because I've never been worried about griefers--I don't even blacklist them unless they get spammy while I'm typing. So to me it just looks like there's not a good choice or a bad one, one way or the other, and the fact that there is a choice at all only serves to divide this community and foster loyalism, as people in this thread defend their server choice and make inferences about the server they didn't choose. I'm discouraged by this community attitude. @Toxa, I think the worst thing people could do now is vote for a new server. And Rock is right--there will be griefers everywhere. You learn to deal with them or you learn to ignore them, but it's rare that there are ever enough of them to really drive roleplayers out or meaningfully disrupt a roleplaying community. They aren't the norm. @Rock, no offense, but the Wyrmrest Accord server is not a good example of a thriving server for Gilgamesh to aspire to by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe that server started as a shining bastion of hope for folks who were fed up with Moonguard and Thorium Brotherhood and elsewhere, but hostility and resentment resulted in that community practically closing its gates to new players and each other in later years, becoming a collection of isolated guilds floating in the aether. I don't know how it's faring nowadays, but that's why I'm suspicious of communities that splinter away from larger communities due to some kind of strife. I also don't think it's fair to say that the OP here has made their server choice. I like to think that there are many people like me who are still trying to decide, still feeling out the elements of this community in order to make a server choice that--make no mistake--is rather difficult. We stand to lose out on roleplay with cool people either way unless we make a character on both servers, and then comes the often unrealistic expectation that we're able to sustain characters on both servers equally. That is quite a task. Further, for many it will come down to where their friends go, and some stand to leave friends behind if not all of ones friends choose the same server. I'm not offering any answers here, I'm sorry to say. I only wanted to offer my perspective as a newcomer, because I think that a lot of the members here may be able to relate.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te/Naming That's about as much info as we'll get for now. SE has stated that they will explore the topic of love and relationships outside of ones clan and race in future quests and events. That will hopefully include more detailed information about how Miqo'te clans function, though I hear there's much to be had in-game already, if you look in the right places.

That had been the primary fear between myself and my friends with rolling up on a Legacy server, at first. However, I'm not sure if that's a legitimate concern. Realistically, as a new character you won't be leaning on the economy anyway. You'll just be leveling doing your thing while the economy evens out. You see, there's always a "crazy" period where new content comes out, or a new game launches, where items that are harder to obtain will be farmed by those who can obtain them and then listed higher than they will be in a month or so. This will happen on every server. All high-level people will do to the economy is the same thing low-level people will do: obtain high level materials and list them high. But the demand won't be high, and those prices will even out by the time you care about those items. You will probably see a lot of "Legcay" players playing level 1 characters anyway, just to enjoy the new content. In any case, I don't expect to see low-level zones empty on Legacy servers, despite the worry. People may be underestimating how many people will be rolling up on every server... Also, Square-Enix is paying attention to the concern enough that they're severely slashing the amount of money that every Legacy character has. In other words, while some people don't like the whole Legacy thing, it is not likely that the economy on any server will suffer because of it. The real question in determining whether you want to be on Balmung or Gilgamesh is this: do you want a large, established roleplay community, or do you want to start fresh in a growing community and see how it plays out? Balmung is an establishment with (from what I've seen) many helpful and nice roleplayers, veterans of the game, of organizing roleplay in the game, and of running linkshells and events. Many people are already set up to return to Balmung with their linkshells, and many more have decided to go there because it's been THE unofficial RP server for a good long time. Gilgamesh, on the other hand, will likely have veterans from other games, and will be establishing brand new standards in their community, and brand new linkshells. The community there already has a good deal of support and a growing population. It is a good alternative to Balmung, especially for those who like smaller RP communities. That's what it comes down to for me, anyway.

Yea, those variations of mutts just don't exist in the NPCs that we see, so I am happy to accept it as support for the theory of one race being expressed at a time. Otherwise stuff'd get soooo messyyy.. :dazed: The visual purity of the races are maintained, even though SE says cross-breeding is possible and happens, albeit rarely. I can also vibe with this idea. It does make things easier in terms of creating a character. Also, I've always been of the opinion that the less you have to describe about your character's appearance in addition to what people can physically see, the less complicated things get for everyone. I always had a hard time remembering the little details that were written in Flag-RSP but not conveyed on characters in World of Warcraft, like those people playing heavily-tattooed/pierced/modified elves and such. You know, I think this'd be pretty easy actually. They're not only really similar, but they have skin color spectrums that overlap. I've made some pretty Seeker-like Keepers, and vice-versa to an extent. Qualities like tail length, heterochromia, and face paint can also subtly suggest certain clan backgrounds.

Yes, we are aware of that. What we were discussing is what would happen when they do mix because while SE says that it can and does happen, we don't see any blatantly "mixed" races. We were discussing what the physical characteristics of a half-breed would be. The consensus we were coming to is important as many people have decided to play a half-breed, and thus far in game NPCs indicate that there is not a 'mix' of races going on, rather they still appear as Hyur OR Miqo'te not Hyurqo'te, if you get me. While I'd love to just say 'don't do it because we don't know' that is unrealistic. People are going to do what they want to do. It's good to discuss and come to some conclusions based on what we see in game, even if we don't have SE spelling it out for us. Not everyone in the thread seemed aware of it. Honestly it seemed like there were a few conversations going on, and mixed race wasn't even the original topic. I could be mistaken, though. It doesn't seem necessary to say, in the case of what a half-breed would simply look like, "don't do it because we don't know." In the case of appearances, we'll rarely perfectly recreate our character concepts in-game, as the customization options will always be more limited than we'd like them to be. The fact that the concept is possible seems good enough to at least attempt to recreate it. It might not be realistic to come to only one conclusion, in my opinion. There are a lot of ways the characteristics of two parents could come together. I'm not discouraging the discussion at all, though! I'm saying that there are probably a lot of ways to make a "Hyurqo'te" that could be just as different from each other as the parent races are--a whole spectrum of mutts with pointy Hyur ears and stunted tails and what have you! At least until SE spells it out for us, I suppose. But imagined physical characteristics are easy to retcon anyway.

I think this is far too restrictive, as the lore we have is hardly complete. It is perfectly okay to try and reasonably fill in the gaps with a little theorizing. That's not really an unusual thing in RP communities. I highly doubt Squeenix will ever provide lore on the evolutionary history of the species populating the planet, or its geology, or even much about its ecology. There are things that we as roleplayers should feel comfortable speculating on and creating micro-canons for. To tell people that they shouldn't try to fill in gaps means a lot of people may have to RP with gaps in their thought processes, and that's not fair at all. Coming from TERA, where in order to RP properly, you need to more, uhm, cross vast chasms of nothingness rather than fill in a few gaps here and there, I know the value of people able to identify the particular rules a fantasy universe seems to be following and then extrapolating. All believable fictional universes follow consistent rules; if they don't, then they're not constructed properly. It's more than fair to take knowledge and apply it to something to fill a hole that may be missing. I'm talking in rather general terms here, as this is a topic that goes well beyond the idea of half-breeds and bleeds into just about every corner of lore out there. You have those things that you make up for your own lore and roleplay that don't influence the world or immersion of other people, such as originating from an isolated tribe, or knowing of an obscure plant or myth, or hailing from an isolated island, or countless other similar examples. Then you have those things that force people to accept your "take" on the lore in order to be able to roleplay with you, such as being a mixed race, or countless other similar examples. There are certain things which are respectful to take liberties on, and certain things that can alienate people. And coming up with continuity via community consensus still serves to isolate members of the roleplay community, potentially. It's not about being restrictive, but about being courteous. And if you're going to make up a rule, such as allowing mixed races, it's even more discourteous to enforce caveats on that rule, such as "no Lalafell/Roegadyn pairs because it doesn't make sense." This isn't our world to make up the rules of. And if we are to make up rules for our sake, we have to be courteous of people who also make up similar rules, because you have no more authority to tell them that they are wrong than I have to tell you that you are wrong. I don't believe an evolutionary history is even necessary in order to justify any of this stuff. If you're going to fill in gaps in the lore, it's best to make things as uncomplicated as possible, especially in the event that the writers of the game contradict your decisions with added content in the future. Anyway, the subject of mixed races and clans is moot, because like I posted before, both of these are confirmed to exist in the lore, with little restriction at all. So you can have Seeker/Keeper mixes and even half-Miqo'tes, within reason.

I don't like the idea of making presumptions about the lore at all. People here seem to be presuming that cross-breeding between the different races is possible and then putting restrictions on which races can cross-breed with which based on further presumptions. None of this seems rooted in science. Just because a species has a common ancestor doesn't mean they can create offspring, and it never has. And it's difficult to say which of FFXIV's races are more "divergent" than others. You just can't introduce rules to the lore that aren't there. If you're going to pretend that cross-breeding is okay, it's all or nothing. It's wrong to hate on Roegadyn/Lalafell half-breeds just because they aren't bending/breaking the lore as "realistically" as you are. And to those saying it's just fantasy and we shouldn't be paying attention to real-world standards for cross-breeding, I think that stance is even more wrong. Both the person who is making up rules and the person who is making up rules based on real-world science are committing the same fallacy. The only difference is that the presumption of the person who uses science is at least able to be reasoned in a discussion about it. Simply making up rules for convenience in the lore with absolutely no basis is very polarizing in a roleplay community where we're all agreeing to accept one canon so that our characters can exist and interact together without conflict. It's a social contract. Until there is an official word on something that isn't covered in the lore, I believe a more polite stance to take is to just not do something that the lore doesn't cover. It's also a more reasonable stance, because the lore could change, and then you'll either have to stick to your guns or retcon months of roleplay. I don't think making lore rules "by community consensus" is wise. EDIT: So something that sorta bothered me in this thread was that nobody was citing sources for mixed clans or mixed races in the lore or from dev comments. Maybe it's common knowledge, but for someone like me who's still trying to learn about the lore, it sounds like heresay. Luckily, some folks were already discussing the topic in this thread, and someone posted a really helpful source! There's no restrictions mentioned regarding which races can cross-breed (not even with regard to Lalafell, unfortunately), so it looks like open season on that idea. It's probably a trope that should be used sparingly, but it's certainly something to consider.

So then I suspect it is safe to say that a seeker female who falls for a keeper male would likely be cast out of her current tribe? The pair would possible be exiled or keep their affair a secret. I'm new and just sort of working through the things in my brain in regards to lore. From http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te/Naming: The parents and child may be also be shunned by both tribes, depending on their stance on inter-tribal breeding. It should be noted that the game's character creator is not expected to allow for mixed tribes at launch. So members who breed outside of their tribe may be cast out, depending on their tribe's personal feelings about inter-tribal breeding. It should be noted that there doesn't seem to be an official source for that quote or for information about inter-tribal breeding, and that it is all speculation. Here is the source for that wiki page: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61150-Miqo-te-Naming-Conventions It doesn't include information about conventions for mixed tribes. So basically, unless there's another official source somewhere, you ought to treat any creative liberties regarding what tribes do about mixed tribe Miqo'te as a treatment that only occurs within a certain circle of your clan or family structure, so it doesn't conflict with similar backgrounds that other people may think up. Just seems like good sense. @Ryanti, since it seems like your character is half Hyur and half Miqo'te, do you happen to know where the official lore is regarding cross-breeding between races?

Balmung is where the community is. It's kind of as simple as that. Admittedly, the only thing I "don't like" about the idea of rolling up on Balmung is that people will be a much higher level than me from the start. My new character will be catching up to others in the community. That's purely a PvE (and possibly PvP) concern though, I suppose, and in time it probably won't matter. Both servers will no doubt have a notable non-roleplayer population. In terms of the economy, I've seen how easy it is to get gil in the beta, and a taste of how many gil sinks there are. I'm not too worried about the economy. I think people who are interested in remaining on Balmung aren't even interested in their characters, because they can remake them now with new customization options anywhere else and, level and gil aside, be in the same situation at launch. Folks would be silly not to play through all the new content from the start of ARR anyway, and I'm sure many of them will. I feel like the appeal of Balmung is most that that was the RP server before and there aren't many good reasons for old players to stray. Up until Gilgamesh and Behemoth were named as alternates, it was where all the roleplay had established itself. If SE had allowed non-Legacy people to roll on Balmung in the beta from the start, I wonder if things would have been different now... In any case, if you discount the numbers of those saying they'll be on one server or the other, the only good reason to pick one server over the other is if you have friends going to one or the other. That's how it seems to me, anyway.

I've only just arrived in this community (I registered right after that lockout when people were voting for the secondary server) so maybe I don't have a lot of context. However, when I saw this thread I had to go back through those other two threads to see if I missed some kind of fighting/insult/undue criticism toward the Gilgamesh server. Now, I've only been here a few days and already this seems like a rather nice, friendly, tolerant community, regardless of server choice. While some people do seem disappointed that others are splitting off to join Gilgamesh and dividing the community somewhat, I haven't seen anyone get terribly upset or disrespectful about it yet. Not enough to warrant what amounts to a public scolding (which is what it looks like from an outsider's perspective). See, I would figure that Balmung roleplayers AND Gilgamesh roleplayers would be allowed to post their opinions in this forum, as it is a general RP discussion subforum and not server-specific. If there was any undue "disrespect," like with whoever sent Rock Sandbourne that PM, I think that it was probably unintentional. For instance, the opinion that Balmung will generally have more activity than Gilgamesh, at least for the time being is... well, probably not inaccurate. I don't think that any disrespect was intended there either. However, the imagery of extending an "olive branch of peace" implies that some sort of war is going on. I haven't seen anyone not following "The Golden Rule," and I've seen just as many people talking up their servers on both sides. If this thread were "addressed to all" and calling for respectful discourse on both sides, then why is the content of the original post aimed at Balmung roleplayers showing Gilgamesh roleplayers more respect? The title seems misleading. Therefore, I feel like this thread might actually be contributing to an environment of rivalry. Even though it calls for coexistence, it feels a bit accusatory in nature. I'm still trying to decide which server I would prefer to dedicate my time to. I don't know anybody around here just yet, so really it might just come down to whichever server seems more inviting. I think if either server's proponents turn server choice into some kind of rivalry or war, I and probably others will most likely just pick the server that's less unfriendly about it, or whichever community is bigger (just so that we're less likely to run into unfriendly, bitter people).

Oh my goodness. That's really interesting! You know, I came in here with an observation (an incorrect one, it seems--I didn't get to play 1.0 and could only go by what lore I could find on the internet) that was contrary to what others were saying. And we just, like, had a calm and rational discussion about it with lore justifications and everything. I'm seeing that all over this site, actually. You guys are really mild and laid-back about stuff, but you know your lore. That's, like, really refreshing to see in a roleplay community that's been around for as long as this one has. I like it. So based on this information, there are some impressively wealthy and powerful Hyur individuals in and around Ul'dah who are referred to as nobles and who have family Houses, like the ill-fated Prokop of House Skryvner. Noble families can have heirs and personal homes and estates outside of Ul'dah, likely in the lands governed by the city-state, such as the summer home of former Syndicate member Eolande Quiveron. Their money is likely worth something in the other city-states, but their investments and family connections are probably all in and around Ul'dah, as there is no evidence (that I know of) that the convention has spread to the aesthetic and peaceful Gridania, or to the naval and pirate-run Limsa Lominsa. As for the "House d'Arlendre" of Gridania, that looks to be an Elezen name (it has French naming conventions). According to Elezen Naming Conventions, Elezens are a proud people with such respect for their surnames that they don't share them between their two tribes. I don't know much about Elezen families, but their "houses" probably don't resemble Hyur noble houses, if only because they don't seem to live very lavish lifestyles in the Twelveswood.

Oh, no. I think you misunderstand. I think it makes sense no matter how you get your money and power. You can be like Raubahn who started with nothing and gained power and prestige in the city, and you have folks like in the Syndicate who are more like tycoons of big business. It doesn't matter who their families are, because their power is in the companies they control, like the East Aldenard Trading Company, or Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern. Flame General Raubahn Aldynn is indeed a "noble figure," though, in that he is an exceptional individual. If that's all you guys mean when you say "noble" then I guess I misunderstood. I wasn't pointing out anything but the use of the words "noble" and "house", really, which are words unique to Ishgard in the game. I think the only "traditional nobles" are the ones in Ishgard. That said, anyone's character can get rich and powerful to some degree in various fashions. We definitely agree on that.

But isn't Ul'dah a sultanate? There should be a concept of nobility there, even if only for show and title. Though I do consider royalty "nobles". Oh, I would have considered royalty separate from nobility. Particularly because the lore does, referring to nobles and aristocrats when talking about Ishgard but calling Ul'dah a Sultanate. I guess for real-world equivalents, compare these entries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate Noble houses have nothing directly to do with members of royal families. Except in Game of Thrones, I guess. Like I said, I wouldn't equate nobility with simply having a family line that has a lot of money. That's not how it works in the real world. I'd mentioned the famous Rockefeller family as an example before, but there's also the fact that it'd sorta be like Donald Trump calling his family "House Trump." :lol: But rather than compare the real world to this game, all I'm saying is that the Ul'dah upper class don't call themselves nobles, but the Ishgard aristocracy do (I linked examples above), probably because they have something resembling a feudal system there. But who knows? I'm not condemning this kind of roleplay at all though, and it's entirely possible to be wealthy or have wealthy parents in any city-state! I just thought it might confuse people to call yourself a "noble," because of what it means in FFXIV's lore.

This sounds like something I and others have done in MMOs before, where we pretty much presume one of a number of roleplay-friendly scenarios: 1.) We're mercenaries who are clearing out certain parts of a dungeon so that bigger groups can get a foothold and go after the big boss. (We sorta ignore the fact that we killed the big boss at the end.) 2.) It's a dungeon that never gets "conquered" in-story, so much as the enemies that are causing trouble inside of it are driven back. Eventually they re-group, build up their numbers, and become a problem again. Then we go back. 3.) The dungeon or quest might be able to be considered a common or recurring regional problem and the tasks we're completing/enemies we're defeating aren't part of the actual dungeon or quest, but a similar one. It's kinda like option two. 4.) The story/expansion/patch has moved past the dungeon, and in the lore the big boss is dead. We go back into the dungeon to hunt for treasure or to help local authorities finish off the rest of the minions inhabiting the place. It never seemed too hard to run most dungeons IC before. Is it more difficult in FFXIV because of how dungeons work? In any case, I totally support this idea, and I would consider joining just to run content with a bunch of dungeon-delving adventurers or something.

Hey GB, have you considered making your "pride" split off and become its own tribe? That seems possible in the lore, and it seems a bit like what your group is representing, since you're separating yourselves from the main tribe and don't want to step on the toes of other Raptor tribe members. I'd been wondering how people intended to handle the tribal bonds and attitudes of Miqo'tes. Seekers do seem a bit more difficult, since they apparently have very widely-reaching tribal bonds. As a whole, all Miqo'te NPCs I've seen are friendly and mild, so being "tribal" doesn't mean you act that differently from the other races, I'll bet. Though after many years it isn't unreasonable to be more detached from a tribe anyway, with Miqo'tes living on the sea or in various city-states. It's also not unreasonable to just leave your tribe to explore the world and never return. It's not like you're obligated to stay close to home if you're brave enough to leave. :3 One should keep in mind though that Miqo'tes are typically involved in these tribes because as a race they are reserved, familial, devoted and solitary outside of their social groups. This does not speak for all Miqo'tes, but as a whole they stick together. So you can be an exception to the "rule," sure. But if you're not interested in Miqo'te lore at all, you may want to ask yourself why you don't just make a Hyur. Hyurs have fewer rules involved with their naming conventions and backgrounds, and can be just about anything you want them to be. After all, if everyone plays an unconventional Miqo'te, then they're not going to seem very unique compared to Hyur. I think that represents missed opportunity.

Since you're playing a noble, can I ask you why you call it a "noble"? What you're describing is just a person who becomes rich and successful. Like I said in my previous post, simply being rich and successful would make you upper class to some degree. "Being a noble" is different in the lore. It's something that is exclusive to Ishgard, that we know of. Being a noble makes you a part of Ishgard's aristocracy, according to these links: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Allagan_Runestone http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Valentione's_Day Since Ishgard has a Countess, and noble Houses, they have a nobility. If you call every member of the upper class in Eorzea "noble", that's kinda confusing. Nobles have power due to their titles and heritage, as well as their wealth and connection to the aristocracy. The upper class of Ul'dah (and anywhere else for that matter) only have power because of their money, business connections and a network of friends and allies, like the Syndicate. I'm not sure a concept like a "noble house" has any meaning to citizens of Ul'dah.

Hi, I'm new here, so I'm hoping I'm not making a bad impression by disagreeing with some of the above posters. Ul'dah doesn't have "nobles" or a "nobility." Nobles are never mentioned in Ul'dah's lore. This site's wiki and the official lore information make it clear that Ul'dah has a royal family, and below that, it is those who obtain the most money and prestige that make up the upper class. Like in American and other real-life Western nations, you can rise to the upper class in Ul'dah by acquiring opulence, and you stay there by maintaining wealth and status. It isn't hereditary--you "make it" in Ul'dah by being lucky or by being industrious. The city is dominated by entrepreneurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility The word "nobility" has very specific connotations related to an established upper class in a tiered social society that is impenetrable, because it is either hereditary or, like a traditional Aristocracy, determined by the ruling class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_family It's better to compare an "upper class" family in Ul'dah to the famous Rockefeller family. Not a "noble house," but a rich and successful family with vast connections. Many Syndicate members demonstrate the true nature of the upper class, with Chief Foreman Fyrgeiss of Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern and Chairman Lord Lolorito of the East Aldenard Trading Company. Their names are only important because their businesses are important. Amajina's name will only live on as the company's name, because money and business change hands. Nobility means something different in the lore from simply being upper class. It is characterized by heritage, eminence and distinct privilege over lesser peoples. In Hydaelyn there are lands where there is a strict divide between commoners and the aristocracy, rather than a loose class system determined by success and affluence. The three primary city-states don't have anything like that. [align=center]Their purpose is even more mysterious, eluding perhaps all of Eorzea but for a single man: an anonymous Ishgardian noble who has tasked Rowena with collecting the lost pieces. Whatever their use, the aristocrat is willing to part with items of extraordinary value in exchange for the seemingly useless stones; in particular, three sets of antique armor exceptional in quality.[/align] [align=center]Currently observed throughout Eorzea, Valentione's Day was originally established to pay tribute to Countess Arabelle de Valentione of Ishgard—a remarkable woman who exhibited unparalleled courage in her quest for true love. [/align] [align=center]... [/align] [align=center]City-states provide free portions of powdered sugar—a rare sweetener imported from far-away lands to the south, and usually only reserved for the noble classes—with which Valentione chocolates are created.[/align] If you wanted to play a true-blue noble in the lore, you'd likely have to be from Ishgard. And if you left Ishgard to come to the other city-states, your nobility isn't important to anyone but you. Your money might be worth something though! All the people I see in the wiki playing "noble" characters seem to just be playing wealthy characters with businesses and big homes out in the country and stuff, and that's fine. Certainly you can be an "heir" to such fortune and responsibility, and that is sorta like being a nobleman. That's not nobility though--that's upper class. You can be a member of an "upper class" in every city-state though! All you need is money, power, rich friends, all that stuff. Owning a successful business or being a prosperous merchant couldn't hurt, either.