How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly?

[Verad]

 

People are relying on this argument of investment, but I have to say that somebody who has played this game for a long time and has remained at a low level is showing a level of commitment that can't help but make me doff my hat towards them.

 

Imagine all the temptations of playing the game - the story of the MSQ, the content, the gear, the vanity items - in front of a person for such a long time, and for them to say "No, thank you, that would be out of character, for it would put me at a higher level" speaks of a dedication I can't help but admire.

 

But the emphasis on combat, on stakes, on story-building, all points to this being yet another variation of the same god damned argument people always have - "I will only trust a powerful character given it is done well," with "level" being another restriction on "done well."

 

Is that an argument you do not agree with? Do you trust powerful characters whether they are done well or poorly?

 

I am honest with myself - I recognize there is no done well or poorly. There is whether I like them or do not like them, which may have nothing at all to do with quality of execution. Certainly level has little to do with it, and I would ask that people who insist on viewing level as a metric of character power chastise the 60s for playing 15s as much as they do the 15s for playing 60s.

[Dogberry]

I tend to play out The Journey.

 

Dogberry started out as J. Random Bareknuckle Boxer in pit fights so mickey mouse he couldn't even hack it in The Bloodsands. He trained, and now he's a world class fist fighter. By no means a kung-fu master, but on par with someone on the professional boxing/MMA circuit for sure. He did the same with the spear, going from a Limsa Lominsan whaler, to a bonafide polearm facewrecker. I didn't just start out with Dogberry claiming to be Eorzea's Muhammad Ali. I was more interested in playing out his rise from a nobody to something more. The time I spent putting effort into the character was the time my character spent training in an 80's movie style montage kind of way.

 

Maybe I'm a giant jerk, but if you're a lowbie pugilist pulling the Ali shtick, the in character response from Dogberry will be to see all of that bravado as foolish bluster, and when you hit Z to pull out your Weathered Horas, he's going to see a thousand things wrong with your body mechanics.

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low?

 

There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding.

 

The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics.

 

Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have.

 

If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

 

I'd like to present a question I'm honestly curious about given this statement, Dogberry: at what level would they have to reach to pull off that "not fresh" look?

 

Again, I'd like to use the busy working mom example - someone who only has enough time for an hour or two to hang our with her friends who all RP in FFXIV. She wants to RP a skilled swordswoman, let's say a Sergeant in the Flames or something. At what point would she lose the "freshly made character" stigma and be honestly considered as the character she would like to play in that short window of time she has to play it?

 

It's a unique situation, certainly, but I'm just curious where your opinion stands on it.

 

This is a fantastic question.

 

Can the character equip gear that would be practical for a skilled swordsman to wear? It doesn't take a whole lot of levelling to achieve that look. So the character claims to be a Flame Sergeant. Can the character equip the Flame Sergeant set? That's only what, level 20 gear? It's entirely believable for a level 20 character in Flame Sergeant gear to be a skilled swordsman, and be taken seriously in character. I don't think "skilled swordsman" is an outrageous claim for a character of that level and gear. "Legendary swordsman" would be pushing it.

 

But if you're not even willing to level up your flame sergeant character to that level, don't start barking orders in my ear like your Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

[Arik]

I tend to play out The Journey.

 

Dogberry started out as J. Random Bareknuckle Boxer in pit fights so mickey mouse he couldn't even hack it in The Bloodsands. He trained, and now he's a world class fist fighter. By no means a kung-fu master, but on par with someone on the professional boxing/MMA circuit for sure. He did the same with the spear, going from a Limsa Lominsan whaler, to a bonafide polearm facewrecker. I didn't just start out with Dogberry claiming to be Eorzea's Muhammad Ali. I was more interested in playing out his rise from a nobody to something more. The time I spent putting effort into the character was the time my character spent training in an 80's movie style montage kind of way.

 

Maybe I'm a giant jerk, but if you're a lowbie pugilist pulling the Ali shtick, the in character response from Dogberry will be to see all of that bravado as foolish bluster, and when you hit Z to pull out your Weathered Horas, he's going to see a thousand things wrong with your body mechanics.

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low?

 

There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding.

 

The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics.

 

Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have.

 

If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

 

To me, this just feels like the equivalent of seeing a guy at an expensive restaurant dressed in cheap jeans, converse sneakers and a T-shirt, assuming that he's clearly "poor"-- and then watching him drive away in his Rolls Royce.

 

Just like real life, you can't judge someone nor their standing in life entirely by what they look like or what they're wearing.

[Hammersmith]

 

 

 

This is a fantastic question.

 

Can the character equip gear that would be practical for a skilled swordsman to wear? It doesn't take a whole lot of levelling to achieve that look. So the character claims to be a Flame Sergeant. Can the character equip the Flame Sergeant set? That's only what, level 20 gear? It's entirely believable for a level 20 character in Flame Sergeant gear to be a skilled swordsman, and be taken seriously in character. I don't think "skilled swordsman" is an outrageous claim for a character of that level and gear. "Legendary swordsman" would be pushing it.

 

But if you're not even willing to level up your flame sergeant character to that level, don't start barking orders in my ear like your Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

 

See, this is another example of less "Level represents RP" and more "If you don't level to the amount I expect you don't have the social capital to spend to make your concept valid my eyes"

 

Which is a different kettle of fish I feel from "Does level represent ability IC"

 

Edit: Actually it might be a different perspective on how level represents/warrants IC behavior instead. Hrrrrm!

[Blue]

I don't know where Gaia online is bro, but here's my character.

 

 

 

Would you assume he is a god amonst men?

 

I wouldn't.

 

That 0 Botanist though, that's unforgivable. He's certainly not a god amongst the Greatloam Growery.

 

EDIT: On the topic of the grand company gear though, does it mean that people will scowl if I use an alt that claims to be Ishgardian even though he isn't past 2.55 and as such has no access to Ishgard? Food for thought.

[111]

 

People are relying on this argument of investment, but I have to say that somebody who has played this game for a long time and has remained at a low level is showing a level of commitment that can't help but make me doff my hat towards them.

 

Imagine all the temptations of playing the game - the story of the MSQ, the content, the gear, the vanity items - in front of a person for such a long time, and for them to say "No, thank you, that would be out of character, for it would put me at a higher level" speaks of a dedication I can't help but admire.

 

But the emphasis on combat, on stakes, on story-building, all points to this being yet another variation of the same god damned argument people always have - "I will only trust a powerful character given it is done well," with "level" being another restriction on "done well."

 

Is that an argument you do not agree with? Do you trust powerful characters whether they are done well or poorly?

 

I am honest with myself - I recognize there is no done well or poorly. There is whether I like them or do not like them, which may have nothing at all to do with quality of execution. Certainly level has little to do with it, and I would ask that people who insist on viewing level as a metric of character power chastise the 60s for playing 15s as much as they do the 15s for playing 60s.

 

I don't think people are arguing that. I think they're saying they take it as a measure of trust and investment into the game. People can play what they like, and I have no issues with high level people playing high or low, or vice versa.

 

I agree there is no subjectively 'done well' or 'done poorly'. I accept strong characters that I like, same as you. However, as I've said, putting yourself under the power of a stronger character required a deal of trust, as once you've acknowledged them as being powerful, you're no longer in complete control of the scene.

 

OOC Char level is just one of many metrics I use to make that decision.

[Lilia Lia]

There are a lot of OOC gameplay aspects of our characters that we turn a blind eye to.  Most characters are not the WoL, obviously, but even moster are not actually White Mages, Black Mages, whatever other distinctive special traits you get.  The fact that we spend time "offline" and aren't always around.  The fact that our characters disappear into "duties" and fight monsters and whatnot.  MOST characters are nowhere near as powerful as their OOC versions.

 

The amount of gil is another good one.  Can I play a poor character if I actually have 10 million gil laying around?  How about a wealthy one if I'm below average by way of means? 

 

If I want to play a character who is a martial arts master, do I have to play them as a grasshopper until I get them to level 50 at which point I retcon them?  And then I just RP having become a master of the martial arts in a matter of days?

[Gegenji]

This is a fantastic question.

 

Can the character equip gear that would be practical for a skilled swordsman to wear? It doesn't take a whole lot of levelling to achieve that look. So the character claims to be a Flame Sergeant. Can the character equip the Flame Sergeant set? That's only what, level 20 gear? It's entirely believable for a level 20 character in Flame Sergeant gear to be a skilled swordsman, and be taken seriously in character. I don't think "skilled swordsman" is an outrageous claim for a character of that level and gear. "Legendary swordsman" would be pushing it.

 

But if you're not even willing to level up your flame sergeant character to that level, don't start barking orders in my ear like your Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

 

Supplementary question. Let's say they add enough vanity gear that you can make a level 1 character look like a Flame Sergeant. Preordering the next expansion gives you a set of dye-able Sergeant-looking gear that is all level 1. Said working mom does this and dresses up her level 1 swordswoman - wearing that gear and her starting sword.

 

Would she be considered any less than if she had leveled to 20 and gotten the "proper" Flame Sergeant gear?

 

Or, alternately, someone decides to play a Highlander refugee street-brawler who runs around in shorts and sandals looking for a good fight. He can easily looks the part he is trying to RP - a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug - even at level one. He even goes so far as to portrays his Weathered Hora as being a set of knuckles he's been using for years and have worn down to the point that they look weathered - since he can't afford to replace them and they have sentimental value. Would he be considered "too fresh" to be taken as a weathered brawler with years of combat under his (possibly made of rope) belt?

[Verad]

 

I don't think people are arguing that. I think they're saying they take it as a measure of trust and investment into the game. People can play what they like, and I have no issues with high level people playing high or low, or vice versa.

 

I agree there is no subjectively 'done well' or 'done poorly'. I accept strong characters that I like, same as you. However, as I've said, putting yourself under the power of a stronger character required a deal of trust, as once you've acknowledged them as being powerful, you're no longer in complete control of the scene.

 

OOC Char level is just one of many metrics I use to make that decision.

 

There are a number of people who have specifically said that they view level as more than a metric of investment - although I think it's a dubious method of determining investment, at best, for both the logic I've described, however absurd, and for the more practical and likely reasons others in the thread have mentioned. 

 

So yes, some people in the thread are arguing that. They're just not on this particular conversational track.

 

But I disagree. You are in complete control of the scene at all times, regardless of character power. But you are in control in a way that people who value immersion find to be uncomfortable and refuse to acknowledge. You, as a player, always have the ability to walk away, ignore, and retcon as necessary, regardless of IC character power.

[Faye]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that I think in-game achievement has some bearing on your characters strength. It's just difficult to bump into a total stranger with a level five character with godlike strength!!!!11 and be okay with them beating my level 50+ decently geared character into the ground. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, like if someone can give me a good reason why their level five character is so much stronger than mine, or if they just legitimately outsmart/outdo my character, if it was an alt made for a storyline I'm participating in, etc.

 

That's not to say I apply it as a rule or anything, though (and it's probably really not much of an issue since most of my characters aren't instigators or eager for a brawl, and I almost never do combat RP). It's just that if some freshly-made character suddenly shows up and starts throwing punches at my character for no reason, I'm not going to take it very seriously, though there are other factors that play into that, such as suspicion that such a character may just be an alt someone made for the purposes of drama or harassment.

 

 

Now...here's a funny thing.

 

I don't think this is because you think level has bearing on RP.  I think it's because you use level to judge the kind of social capital someone might be deserving.  No one wants Nublet McEdgelord to waltz into a gathering and take a giant combat shit on it with a freshly rolled level 1 Char in vanity armor who can suplex Titan Train and is also the last Black Mage of a Royal Allagan Bloodline.

 

So are you against that because you think that levels actually matter, or because you think that at least having a level 50 char means they're invested in the server and RP enough to merit paying serious attention to?

 

It blends together for me, honestly. Levels don't mean much to me, but levels can indicate how much time, energy, and effort someone has put into their character, be it for the sake of RP or otherwise, which is what I do care about. I think Jancis summarized it well a couple pages back. If I'm going to invest in another person's character, it helps if their player has done the same.

[Dogberry]

 

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on this forum.

 

How does your character even know the person is level 1? What even is level 1?  How do you know its not a Kung Fu master using a Weathered Hora? What if it is and you just went and assigned a bunch of flaws to their stance and literally wrecked the person's intended character.

 

That might be what they mean to you, but they have slightly more concrete meanings... When you roleplay your character as having information that by the story they should not have then that's metagaming. Like knowing they are low level because you inspected them. Godmoding is when you establish factors as truth and become the sole determinant of the outcome of a story. Like flinging a punch and making sure it lands by putting it in your emote. Like saying that your character can see flaws in another character's stance despite whatever they are emoting.

 

You can't really determine why people want to pay 15 a month and play this game. A person could pay 15 a month to sit and look at the Forgotten Spring kitties and be fully within their right.

 

I don't know where Gaia online is bro, but here's my character.

 

 

 

Would you assume he is a god amonst men?

 

I wouldn't.

 

If the character uses weathered hora to portray that their character is humble, and uses simple weapons, go ahead and use them. But if your character is using weathered hora because they literally can't equip anything else, then I don't feel your character can claim status as a legend. I interpret Level 1 as the point where your character devotes their life to a certain thing. They are the novice that has taken their first serious steps toward mastery. Everyone starts out making that decision. They will devote their life to mastery of the sword, or they're going to become a great fisherman. If you are skilled in something, and see a novice attempt the thing you're skilled in, you can immediately tell they are a novice. To make a character and role play mastery of a thing is truly godmoding. Emoting isn't just the be-all-end-all of RP for me, I guess. I consider my character something like a puppet, and characterization for puppetry goes a lot farther than sticking your hand in a sock and moving your hands.

 

You can do what you like with your $15, but don't presume upon my $15.

 

And to answer your question, I know nothing about you OOC, let alone, IC, so you could probably come up in any kind of gear you wanted, claiming to be anything at all, and my character could have no real reason to doubt you, even if you were claiming to be a bard and your character was actually a paladin or something. But, what's that thing where you use OOC knowledge to gain something over on another character called? I think it's called... metagaming?

[Sin]

If the character uses weathered hora to portray that their character is humble, and uses simple weapons, go ahead and use them. But if your character is using weathered hora because they literally can't equip anything else, then I don't feel your character can claim status as a legend. I interpret Level 1 as the point where your character devotes their life to a certain thing. They are the novice that has taken their first serious steps toward mastery. Everyone starts out making that decision. They will devote their life to mastery of the sword, or they're going to become a great fisherman. If you are skilled in something, and see a novice attempt the thing you're skilled in, you can immediately tell they are a novice. To make a character and role play mastery of a thing is truly godmoding. Emoting isn't just the be-all-end-all of RP for me, I guess. I consider my character something like a puppet, and characterization for puppetry goes a lot farther than sticking your hand in a sock and moving your hands.

 

You can do what you like with your $15, but don't presume upon my $15.

 

And to answer your question, I know nothing about you OOC, let alone, IC, so you could probably come up in any kind of gear you wanted, claiming to be anything at all, and my character could have no real reason to doubt you, even if you were claiming to be a bard and your character was actually a paladin or something. But, what's that thing where you use OOC knowledge to gain something over on another character called? I think it's called... metagaming?

 

As to the first half of your post, I think we simply see roleplay differently. I see it as more pure storytelling and you see it as more of a hybrid of gameplay and storytelling. That's fine, live and let live.

 

As to the second half of your post, I think somewhere along the line you must've misunderstood what I was saying, I'm assuming that by your play of words you're hinting at an instance of me metagaming. That is quite frankly impossible in a discussion wholly outside of the game and roleplay. I don't think you quite understand the concept.

 

All I was trying to say is that I don't think people should take levels as a metric for nearly anything, but specially not IC power. But even if they do, then they should specially not go ahead and godmode that the character has flaws because you inspected them and they are low level.

 

My point by displaying my own character is showing you the inverse. My character is (was) max level nearly everything, but I roleplayed him as an average swordsman with no other skills. The only way you could know this is through my emoting.

 

The opposite should be true as well. That's my point, character's shouldn't assume people with all 50's are gods, and people with one character at level 20 is a novice. Either way is bad, because either way is metagaming, and you specifically have stated that you will hands down emote that your character sees flaws and can outright know the person is a novice. Not by judging their emotes, or making a value call based on their clothes IC'ly, but by inspecting their character and declaring because of that OOC knowledge that your character knows they're a novice.

 

It is my opinion that that is an egregious mistake to make in a storytelling format. Specially if we're trying to be respectful of each other's characters.

[Dogberry]

This is a fantastic question.

 

Can the character equip gear that would be practical for a skilled swordsman to wear? It doesn't take a whole lot of levelling to achieve that look. So the character claims to be a Flame Sergeant. Can the character equip the Flame Sergeant set? That's only what, level 20 gear? It's entirely believable for a level 20 character in Flame Sergeant gear to be a skilled swordsman, and be taken seriously in character. I don't think "skilled swordsman" is an outrageous claim for a character of that level and gear. "Legendary swordsman" would be pushing it.

 

But if you're not even willing to level up your flame sergeant character to that level, don't start barking orders in my ear like your Gunnery Sergeant Hartman.

 

Supplementary question. Let's say they add enough vanity gear that you can make a level 1 character look like a Flame Sergeant. Preordering the next expansion gives you a set of dye-able Sergeant-looking gear that is all level 1. Said working mom does this and dresses up her level 1 swordswoman - wearing that gear and her starting sword.

 

Would she be considered any less than if she had leveled to 20 and gotten the "proper" Flame Sergeant gear?

 

Or, alternately, someone decides to play a Highlander refugee street-brawler who runs around in shorts and sandals looking for a good fight. He can easily looks the part he is trying to RP - a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug - even at level one. He even goes so far as to portrays his Weathered Hora as being a set of knuckles he's been using for years and have worn down to the point that they look weathered - since he can't afford to replace them and they have sentimental value. Would he be considered "too fresh" to be taken as a weathered brawler with years of combat under his (possibly made of rope) belt?

 

Another fantastic question.

 

I suppose this comes from my penchant for RPing actual game content. If I met this character in Ul'dah, and they came across as an authority figure, I would most definitely treat them as such. That ends when they leave the city and they are et by a 'bon. That would likely lead to snarky remarks about how they'll make anyone a Flame Sergeant these days oo-rah hooray Maelstrom.

 

In the second instance, it's entirely possible to play a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug at level 1. Characters lead lives before we create them, and if that's been his life so far, it's fine, people can spend years in mediocrity and obscurity before they make their major break. Level 1 for me represents the first break from mediocrity. The point at which your character first shows a spark for greatness, and it can happen at any point in someone's life. You can claim years of experience, but not mastery. I have years of experience playing the guitar, and I can shred reasonably well but I am by no means a master on the level of Yngwie Malmsteen. If I lived in an guitar-based MMO, I would say the moment I make a breakthrough in my playing from "hobbyist" to "amateur" would be the point at which I hit level 1.

[Dogberry]

Not by judging their emotes, or making a value call based on their clothes IC'ly, but by inspecting their character and declaring because of that OOC knowledge that your character knows they're a novice.

 

Can you show me where I said this?

[Melkire]

...when did being respectful of others' characters become a requirement or a communal expectation?

 

I'm totally down for respecting others' rights to RP what they want, to spend their $15 and make use of it the way they want, etc. ... but to me, that doesn't translate into a necessity to respect someone's character.

 

I'm going to laugh at the interdimensional traveler who is Pinkie Pie from MLP:FiM reincarnated as a Miqo'te and runs around town declaring such. I can't help that. That has to do with my preferences. I won't try to shut them down; it's their time, their money, and their fun. That, I can and will respect, and I'd hope everyone would feel the same. That said? I will quietly remove myself from the vicinity so that I can roleplay in a separate space from them so as to avoid clashing.

 

Conversely, folks can feel free to make fun of my characters and laugh at them / diss them / etc. Hell, at times I roleplay a lore-breaking LOST-smoke-monster zombie. That's absolutely ridiculous and I don't expect anyone to respect that character... but it's there for folks who want to roleplay with it, and I won't force that character on anyone, nor do I ever expect others to be okay with it or accept it or spend time anywhere near it.

 

EDIT: tl;dr, I respect players, I don't necessarily respect each and every character concept. That's just me, though, as a person.

[Clover]

Maybe opinions like mine have been stated before, as I haven't read the whole thread.

 

In RP, I separate IC and OOC. I'm not one to make powerful main characters myself, but I'd consider it unfair if only people with a lot of free time and the will to grind their levels were allowed to RP powerful characters.

 

Back in Aion, a person who RPed a 9 years old noble girl wanted to be more powerful than a 400 years old war veteran. The reason? That his character was max level, while the war veteran was not because his player seriously didn't have the time. The little free time he had was spent... RPing (and he was very good at it). There wasn't any good IC reason for that girl to be stronger; it was simply absurd from an IC point of view. Mixing OOC with IC can create such situations.

[Gegenji]

In the second instance, it's entirely possible to play a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug at level 1. Characters lead lives before we create them, and if that's been his life so far, it's fine, people can spend years in mediocrity and obscurity before they make their major break. Level 1 for me represents the first break from mediocrity.

 

Understandable. But how much power would attribute to this thug? Purely based on level, he wouldn't have much at all. Yet, if - RP-wise - he has spent his entire life fighting and struggling and in constant conflict, he could have quite a bit. Not just in physical power, but in combat experience from all the brawls he's gotten into.

 

So, say your character is walking down the street after a nice night at the pub, and this thug accosts you. Would you write him off because of the level difference? Keep in mind, you - as the player - have no idea of this rich and storied history this guy has created. All you see is a shirtless level one Highlander Pugilist in his starting gear pants and his weathered hora. And he's emoting that he's trying to mug you.

[Sin]

Not by judging their emotes, or making a value call based on their clothes IC'ly, but by inspecting their character and declaring because of that OOC knowledge that your character knows they're a novice.

 

Can you show me where I said this?

 

Damn man, now you're asking me to go back through all these posts and I'm hella lazy.

 

Here it is though....

 

"Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have."--Dogberry

 

@Melkire

I did not mean ic'ly respecting them. Roleplaying right bastards is fun as the seven hells, I meant more.... respecting a person's creation.

 

It's a creative endeavor. People create a character they like and are oftentimes proud of. I think despite if you like it or not like it you should respect their creation.

 

It doesn't mean that your character shouldn't be a right bastard if they would think so IC'ly, just that you should not be a dick about it. It's a slight difference. The difference between emoting that your character thinks the person is crazy, and emoting in narrator voice that the person is crazy. As I said, slight difference, but one of those respects both characters in the scene, and the other one steps and poops all over that person's creation. Do you get me?

[Dogberry]

In the second instance, it's entirely possible to play a streetwise, underhanded fist-fighting thug at level 1. Characters lead lives before we create them, and if that's been his life so far, it's fine, people can spend years in mediocrity and obscurity before they make their major break. Level 1 for me represents the first break from mediocrity.

 

Understandable. But how much power would attribute to this thug? Purely based on level, he wouldn't have much at all. Yet, if - RP-wise - he has spent his entire life fighting and struggling and in constant conflict, he could have quite a bit. Not just in physical power, but in combat experience from all the brawls he's gotten into.

 

So, say your character is walking down the street after a nice night at the pub, and this thug accosts you. Would you write him off because of the level difference? Keep in mind, you - as the player - have no idea of this rich and storied history this guy has created. All you see is a shirtless level one Highlander Pugilist in his starting gear pants and his weathered hora. And he's emoting that he's trying to mug you.

 

My practical answer to this would be for Dogberry to assume the guy's just some cream puff, and then settle the fight with dice. If Dogberry loses, he loses. The truth is, unskilled fighters beating skilled ones isn't unheard of. In the case of a loss, Dog's ego is bruised, and he gets salty over a lucky punch. If he wins, he can then go on to critique the guy's fighting style.

[Dogberry]

 

"Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have."--Dogberry

 

 

Emphasis mine. You seem to think I'm going to check someone's profile to judge them but I don't see how what I said could give you that impression.

[Sin]

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low?

 

There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding.

 

The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics.

 

Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have.

 

If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

Emphasis mine.

 

If I misjudged and you did not see the second part of that question, then we've been going along different paths here.

[Melkire]

@Melkire

I did not mean ic'ly respecting them. Roleplaying right bastards is fun as the seven hells, I meant more.... respecting a person's creation.

 

It's a creative endeavor. People create a character they like and are oftentimes proud of. I think despite if you like it or not like it you should respect their creation.

 

It doesn't mean that your character shouldn't be a right bastard if they would think so IC'ly, just that you should not be a dick about it. It's a slight difference. The difference between emoting that your character thinks the person is crazy, and emoting in narrator voice that the person is crazy. As I said, slight difference, but one of those respects both characters in the scene, and the other one steps and poops all over that person's creation. Do you get me?

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear:

 

Out of character, I will make fun of and look down on and disrespect Pinkie Pie Miqo'te as a character concept. Partly because it's hilarious, partly because it's not something I care to have to roleplay with. That said, I won't be a dick about it, won't throw that laughter or disrespect into their face or into a public space. I'll either keep it to myself or to a private space. I'll also - because it is my choice, my $15, and my perogative - choose to avoid encountering or interacting with that character.

 

Out of character, I will respect Pinkie Pie Miqo'te's player, their choices, their decision to roleplay said character, because it's their time and entertainment, not mine. I may even get along great with the player in OoC channels, maybe even tells. I just won't roleplay with Pinke Pie Miqo'te.

 

In character, if inadvertently confronted by Pinkie Pie Miqo'te despite my OoC attempts to avoid our characters colliding in narrative, my character will react as my character is wont to.

 

 

 

...this is all ironic in light of the pink Miqo'te child that can be found somewhere in Heavensward's areas. I assure you that my discontent with such a concept is not the color but rather the "I'm a pony from a different setting/universe altogether!" aspect.

[Dogberry]

So because the character is wearing weathered horas he's going to see things wrong with his body mechanics. Not just assume, nor think he sees, but literally you're going to assign wrong factors to the other characters mechanics because you know that that is a level 1 weapon and you've Inspected his level to be low?

 

There are names for that kind of behavior in RP. They're metagaming and godmoding.

 

The journey can be roleplayed without game mechanics.

 

Yes. If you're a level 1 Pugilist, in my eyes, your character is a level 1 Pugilist. To me, metagaming and godmoding is claiming your character has abilities it clearly doesn't have. If you can't be bothered to level up a job to at least a level where you can pull off a look that fits the job beyond "freshly made character", then I don't see why my character should recognize the skills yours claims to have.

 

If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

Emphasis mine.

 

If I misjudged and you did not see the second part of that question, then we've been going along different paths here.

 

I interpreted inspect as "taking a look at", not "right click and examine".

[Thorgar]

This is why i do not make thousand year old martial masters of godly smiting and fresh cookies, when your doing table top you have more freedom to play with the story. In a MMORPG you have to conform to the world and its standards.  You would not respect the "200 year old lallafel that tamed Bahumut and left him in the moon because he was bored" character.

 

In MMORPG's i always create a character that is starting his adventure or new life, they may have experience at something but circumstances and choices do not let him be UBERMIENCH or even more than he currently is. 

 

Good example is my Warrior from WoW that was a defrocked Priest who had lost faith in the light.  I could use lore to have knowledge of a priest but by choice and circumstance hes just a starting sell sword now.

 

As to the main topic, i think your characters levels and skills are more IC than OOC and should be used as a guideline.  I see a lvl one character with starting gear but get told that hes Odin's bastard son and has seen a thousand wars unscathed, im gonna think hes nuts (ICly) or a bad RP'er (oocly).

 

Having an epic character is cool, but have a reason for them not to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound or dismantle the aetheric wave forms with a toothpick.  Have a 300 year old elf who has seen 100 years of combat but your only lvl 2, have him been 50 years out of practice/fitness.

 

I had a City of Heroes player who's character was the son of an Archangel, who had the power to counter anyone's powers (even if it was power armor) if he got into a bind.  That kinda thing burned me out on god level PC's, i think its just bad RP and god modding.

 

As soon as you ignore the ooc and create something from your ego you run the risk of ruining the fun of the other players.  now just breaking the mold and doing something unique is cool, just expect some hiccups when your fellow RP'er is confused at why your lvl 4 is communing with primals and getting them to tap dance lol

[Faye]

...when did being respectful of others' characters become a requirement or a communal expectation?

 

I'm totally down for respecting others' rights to RP what they want, to spend their $15 and make use of it the way they want, etc. ... but to me, that doesn't translate into a necessity to respect someone's character.

 

I'm going to laugh at the interdimensional traveler who is Pinkie Pie from MLP:FiM reincarnated as a Miqo'te and runs around town declaring such. I can't help that. That has to do with my preferences. I won't try to shut them down; it's their time, their money, and their fun. That, I can and will respect, and I'd hope everyone would feel the same. That said? I will quietly remove myself from the vicinity so that I can roleplay in a separate space from them so as to avoid clashing.

 

Conversely, folks can feel free to make fun of my characters and laugh at them / diss them / etc. Hell, at times I roleplay a lore-breaking LOST-smoke-monster zombie. That's absolutely ridiculous and I don't expect anyone to respect that character... but it's there for folks who want to roleplay with it, and I won't force that character on anyone, nor do I ever expect others to be okay with it or accept it or spend time anywhere near it.

 

EDIT: tl;dr, I respect players, I don't necessarily respect each and every character concept. That's just me, though, as a person.

 

It happened whenever people started developing this strange idea that having an opinion and preferences means you're going to try to enforce your personal feelings on everyone you meet.